Here are thge four starters next year
brown
Bradley
kelly
celestine





Who is the fifth starter???

helltopay1 said:

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Here are thge four starters next year
brown
Bradley
kelly
celestine





Who is the fifth starter???

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With the 4 you mention the 5th would have to be a big:

Anticevich (if he returns)
Thiemann or Thorpe or Kuany (if one should improve significantly)
Alajiki or Anyanwu (if and when either might be ready)

Note the key word: if

Also I'm hoping for, but not counting on:

Brown and Hyder play more consistently
Bowser and Roberson turn out better than Betley and Foreman

stu said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Here are thge four starters next year
brown
Bradley
kelly
celestine





Who is the fifth starter???

---

With the 4 you mention the 5th would have to be a big:

Anticevich (if he returns)
Thiemann or Thorpe or Kuany (if one should improve significantly)
Alajiki or Anyanwu (if and when either might be ready)

Note the key word: if

Also I'm hoping for, but not counting on:

Brown and Hyder play more consistently
Bowser and Roberson turn out better than Betley and Foreman

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Bowser should be good to go after hitting the weights. Lots of potential. Hyder as had some moments but looks extremely hesitant right now. He's quick but needs to play with some conviction.

I expect Hyder to be much improved. Actually, the question is unfair because we don't know who will return..Grant is a cinch if he returns..Ideally, brown should be coming off the bench for obvious offensive reasons..

helltopay1 said:

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Here are thge four starters next year
brown
Bradley
kelly
celestine


Who is the fifth starter???

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The unknown known . . . or maybe a known unknown.

Go Bears and thrive!

That's easy. It's GA. No question about it. He's in a shooting slump lately, but he's definitely Cal's second best player.

stu said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Here are thge four starters next year
brown
Bradley
kelly
celestine





Who is the fifth starter???

---

With the 4 you mention the 5th would have to be a big:

Anticevich (if he returns)
Thiemann or Thorpe or Kuany (if one should improve significantly)
Alajiki or Anyanwu (if and when either might be ready)

Note the key word: if

Also I'm hoping for, but not counting on:

Brown and Hyder play more consistently
Bowser and Roberson turn out better than Betley and Foreman

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Anticevich might return? Isn't he a senior? Does the cover exception apply to BB?

59bear said:

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stu said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Here are thge four starters next year
brown
Bradley
kelly
celestine





Who is the fifth starter???

---

With the 4 you mention the 5th would have to be a big:

Anticevich (if he returns)
Thiemann or Thorpe or Kuany (if one should improve significantly)
Alajiki or Anyanwu (if and when either might be ready)

Note the key word: if

Also I'm hoping for, but not counting on:

Brown and Hyder play more consistently
Bowser and Roberson turn out better than Betley and Foreman

---

Anticevich might return? Isn't he a senior? Does the cover exception apply to BB?

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Yes. Yes. And yes.

drizzlybear said:

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That's easy. It's GA. No question about it. He's in a shooting slump lately, but he's definitely Cal's second best player.

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I'd disagree slightly with this. I think Kelly is Cal's second best player. He is the only Cal player with a post game, and this team needs a post game, even if it is an average post game. Anticevich is a perimeter player, and we have an abundance of those. He has a good jump shot, for threes and any kind of midrange shot. He rebounds well, but he has no post game. When he drives to the basket, he nearly always passes the ball instead of scoring with it. I like Grant a lot. His defense is often good, but I'd like to see him finish some of his drives at the rim, and develop some post game, a back to the basket game, to be a complete player.

And as for who is Cal's second best player, it is Kelly now, but Celestine is making a little bit of noise, and his stock has started to rise.

The Big Three: Bradley, Kelly and Grant

Can we make it the Big Four?

drizzlybear said:

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That's easy. It's GA. No question about it. He's in a shooting slump lately, but he's definitely Cal's second best player.

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GA's our second best player half the time. The other half of the time, he's not.

He is either really good or really bad.

HoopDreams said:

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The Big Three: Bradley, Kelly and Grant

Can we make it the Big Four?

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Hoping Celestine can be that guy.

oskidunker said:

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He is either really good or really bad.

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I think what you mean is that his shot is either really on or really off. I grant (intended) that his shot has been very inconsistent this year. I attribute that to his health issues and the need this year for him to have expanded his offensive game, especially while MB was out. But he (and the game) is about much more than his shot on any given night. And GA is always our smartest (along with Bradley) and most fundamentally sound (individually and team-oriented) player.

drizzlybear said:

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oskidunker said:

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He is either really good or really bad.

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I think what you mean is that his shot is either really on or really off. I grant (intended) that his shot has been very inconsistent this year. I attribute that to his health issues and the need this year for him to have expanded his offensive game, especially while MB was out. But he (and the game) is about much more than his shot on any given night. And GA is always our smartest (along with Bradley) and most fundamentally sound (individually and team-oriented) player.

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I agree. Well said.

Big C said:

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drizzlybear said:

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oskidunker said:

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He is either really good or really bad.

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I think what you mean is that his shot is either really on or really off. I grant (intended) that his shot has been very inconsistent this year. I attribute that to his health issues and the need this year for him to have expanded his offensive game, especially while MB was out. But he (and the game) is about much more than his shot on any given night. And GA is always our smartest (along with Bradley) and most fundamentally sound (individually and team-oriented) player.

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Look, I get that we just WON ONE BASKETBALL GAME and everybody is on Cloud 9, but no, Anticevich has plenty of games in which his shot isn't dropping and he's not much of a factor, all around.

Great guy, good hoops IQ, plays hard, can get hot from outside, love him. But he's really inconsistent. I can say that and still be a big fan. I would LOVE to see him come back next season and go 10+/5+ in just about every darn game we play.

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Well, the question of second-best player is a relative concept. So I guess you'd have to say who you think is the second best player, and then show me that player's consistent production (in addition to high IQ, works hard, etc.), and then disregard possible impact to productivity due to extended mid-season absence due to emergency appendectomy.

Also, re the side note about having won one game, I've been on Cloud 9 ever since the UCLA game, when I thought this team first showed it could play like a team (and has continued to do so fairly consistently since then). It's worth noting that Cal won that game last night despite poor shooting by GA amd Bettley. That's the reason for my Cloud 9.

SFCityBear said:

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drizzlybear said:

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That's easy. It's GA. No question about it. He's in a shooting slump lately, but he's definitely Cal's second best player.

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I'd disagree slightly with this. I think Kelly is Cal's second best player. He is the only Cal player with a post game, and this team needs a post game, even if it is an average post game. Anticevich is a perimeter player, and we have an abundance of those. He has a good jump shot, for threes and any kind of midrange shot. He rebounds well, but he has no post game. When he drives to the basket, he nearly always passes the ball instead of scoring with it. I like Grant a lot. His defense is often good, but I'd like to see him finish some of his drives at the rim, and develop some post game, a back to the basket game, to be a complete player.

And as for who is Cal's second best player, it is Kelly now, but Celestine is making a little bit of noise, and his stock has started to rise.

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Agreed. We have even won without Bradley, but our +/- without Kelly is scary. Kelly provides needed interior offense and defense.

Grant is best and most valuable when we are getting him his shots.

What is nice about Brown, Bradley, Celestine, GA, Kelly as our main lineup is the pieces are complimentary.

Big C said:

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drizzlybear said:

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That's easy. It's GA. No question about it. He's in a shooting slump lately, but he's definitely Cal's second best player.

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GA's our second best player half the time. The other half of the time, he's not.

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Disagree he's our second best player half time time, our third best player half the time and our fourth best player a third of the time.

I';m not sure you were a math major...

calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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drizzlybear said:

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That's easy. It's GA. No question about it. He's in a shooting slump lately, but he's definitely Cal's second best player.

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I'd disagree slightly with this. I think Kelly is Cal's second best player. He is the only Cal player with a post game, and this team needs a post game, even if it is an average post game. Anticevich is a perimeter player, and we have an abundance of those. He has a good jump shot, for threes and any kind of midrange shot. He rebounds well, but he has no post game. When he drives to the basket, he nearly always passes the ball instead of scoring with it. I like Grant a lot. His defense is often good, but I'd like to see him finish some of his drives at the rim, and develop some post game, a back to the basket game, to be a complete player.

And as for who is Cal's second best player, it is Kelly now, but Celestine is making a little bit of noise, and his stock has started to rise.

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Agreed. We have even won without Bradley, but our +/- without Kelly is scary. Kelly provides needed interior offense and defense.

Grant is best and most valuable when we are getting him his shots.

What is nice about Brown, Bradley, Celestine, GA, Kelly as our main lineup is the pieces are complimentary.

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I'm a Kelly fan, too, but I think you're referencing more the role he plays, and in particular the absence of other viable options in that role, more so than how good they are at their respective roles.

drizzlybear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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The Big Three: Bradley, Kelly and Grant

Can we make it the Big Four?

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Hoping Celestine can be that guy.

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I would like it to be Brown - but its looking more like Celestine will fit the bill. Which is my way of saying he seems to be finding his game lately - and hoping it sticks. Whereas Brown has had more time to show his ups and downs.

BeachedBear said:

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drizzlybear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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The Big Three: Bradley, Kelly and Grant

Can we make it the Big Four?

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Hoping Celestine can be that guy.

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I would like it to be Brown - but its looking more like Celestine will fit the bill. Which is my way of saying he seems to be finding his game lately - and hoping it sticks. Whereas Brown has had more time to show his ups and downs.

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It would definitely be preferable if it were Brown, PG being the most important position. I didn't mean "hoping" in that way. I meant that right now JC appears most likely to become part of a "big 4" grouping, and "hoping" he does.

BeachedBear said:

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drizzlybear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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The Big Three: Bradley, Kelly and Grant

Can we make it the Big Four?

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Hoping Celestine can be that guy.

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I would like it to be Brown - but its looking more like Celestine will fit the bill. Which is my way of saying he seems to be finding his game lately - and hoping it sticks. Whereas Brown has had more time to show his ups and downs.

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Given his recent rise to starter, it would appear that Fox is in Celestine's camp.

BeachedBear said:

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drizzlybear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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The Big Three: Bradley, Kelly and Grant

Can we make it the Big Four?

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Hoping Celestine can be that guy.

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I would like it to be Brown - but its looking more like Celestine will fit the bill. Which is my way of saying he seems to be finding his game lately - and hoping it sticks. Whereas Brown has had more time to show his ups and downs.

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I think Celestine had the game when he arrived, but he had been recovering for a year, I think, from a very serious injury and surgery suffered while he was still in high school. His progress in making it into the starting lineup at the end of the season may just have been a natural progression of finishing his rehab and getting his body in shape to play in games again. To me, he looked like a real ballplayer in his very first cameo appearances with the team earlier in the season. He's a smart player, unselfish, sees the floor, knows how to pass, can shoot the ball, rebound, and play defense. We'll find out more about him the more he plays. I think if he cracks the starting lineup for the rest of the season, he may stay there permanently.

As to Brown, he has shown a willingness to work on his game and he has improved. However, there is only so much you can practice by yourself. The team skills, which he is lacking, require him to change his thinking about the way he plays, and then put it into practice in scrimmages and games, listening to criticism from coaches along the way. He is only a sophomore, and the real jump may come next season or the following one. He has only two speeds, fast and faster. The trouble with being really fast, like Brown is, is that it is harder to put on the brakes when needed. When he puts his head down and speeds up to top speed to blow by defenders, he is thinking of one thing, scoring the ball. He has to develop the concept of having an open mind when he drives into the lane, to be open to whatever opportunity is there, and be ready to take advantage of it. He needs to slow down and wait a split second for opportunities to appear. As it is now, he drives so fast, and defenders know he is trying to score, and they are free to double team him, because they know he will be going too fast to see there is someone open when he is double-teamed. Thus, he gets tied up or his shot stuffed too often. Right now, he is often wasting his great speed by using it too often.

yep......

Big C said:

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drizzlybear said:

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oskidunker said:

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He is either really good or really bad.

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I think what you mean is that his shot is either really on or really off. I grant (intended) that his shot has been very inconsistent this year. I attribute that to his health issues and the need this year for him to have expanded his offensive game, especially while MB was out. But he (and the game) is about much more than his shot on any given night. And GA is always our smartest (along with Bradley) and most fundamentally sound (individually and team-oriented) player.

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Look, I get that we just WON ONE BASKETBALL GAME and everybody is on Cloud 9, but no, Anticevich has plenty of games in which his shot isn't dropping and he's not much of a factor, all around.

Great guy, good hoops IQ, plays hard, can get hot from outside, love him. But he's really inconsistent. I can say that and still be a big fan. I would LOVE to see him come back next season and go 10+/5+ in just about every darn game we play.

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I agree with the sentiments regarding GA, but I would love to see a transfer forward come in that's skilled enough to relegate GA to designated outside shooter off the bench if he returns. Honestly, we need a more athletic player than Grant who can defend small forwards when needed and who is a better rebounder. Those are attributes that are valuable even when the shots don't fall for you. I like the guy, he's improved over time, but I don't think he starts for a good team.