Now an offensive foul

1,791 Views | 9 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by oski003
oski003
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Let's get back to basketball. These moves by Curry, Harden, etc... are ruining the game.

sluggo
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Not to mention that moving both feet to avoid the defender like Randle does is not good footwork but the definition of traveling. That and the euro stepping is driving me crazy.
calumnus
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sluggo said:

Not to mention that moving both feet to avoid the defender like Randle does is not good footwork but the definition of traveling. That and the euro stepping is driving me crazy.


Except the defender was behind him playing catch-up after letting him blow past him. Never reward bad basketball with a call and an offensive foul is one of the costliest you can call. Besides, the offensive player is looking at the court in front of him when he jumps. It is at worst a no call.
oski003
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calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Not to mention that moving both feet to avoid the defender like Randle does is not good footwork but the definition of traveling. That and the euro stepping is driving me crazy.


Except the defender was behind him playing catch-up after letting him blow past him. Never reward bad basketball with a call and an offensive foul is one of the costliest you can call. Besides, the offensive player is looking at the court in front of him when he jumps. It is at worst a no call.


It doesn't matter if you are by somebody if you suddenly jump backward.
BeachedBear
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oski003 said:

calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Not to mention that moving both feet to avoid the defender like Randle does is not good footwork but the definition of traveling. That and the euro stepping is driving me crazy.


Except the defender was behind him playing catch-up after letting him blow past him. Never reward bad basketball with a call and an offensive foul is one of the costliest you can call. Besides, the offensive player is looking at the court in front of him when he jumps. It is at worst a no call.


It doesn't matter if you are by somebody if you suddenly jump backward.
I think this is one of those calls that no ref makes in real time but looks suspicious when analyzed. There are lots of very good reasons for a person with the ball in shooting range to jump backwards in their shooting form.

Now, having said that - Curry is a crafty player and the NBA [refs] have encouraged offensive 'gamesmanship' for quite a while now, so I think both things are true: Curry attempted to create a defensive foul and no ref was going to call it.
sluggo
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calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Not to mention that moving both feet to avoid the defender like Randle does is not good footwork but the definition of traveling. That and the euro stepping is driving me crazy.


Except the defender was behind him playing catch-up after letting him blow past him. Never reward bad basketball with a call and an offensive foul is one of the costliest you can call. Besides, the offensive player is looking at the court in front of him when he jumps. It is at worst a no call.
I was not commenting on what is a foul. I just hate the two footed hop like Randle took, which Harden and Curry and others do. It is traveling, period. Or at least it should be.
calumnus
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oski003 said:

calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Not to mention that moving both feet to avoid the defender like Randle does is not good footwork but the definition of traveling. That and the euro stepping is driving me crazy.


Except the defender was behind him playing catch-up after letting him blow past him. Never reward bad basketball with a call and an offensive foul is one of the costliest you can call. Besides, the offensive player is looking at the court in front of him when he jumps. It is at worst a no call.


It doesn't matter if you are by somebody if you suddenly jump backward.


Suddenly jumping backward while shooting with a defender in front of you is a fadeaway jump shot.

My dad was a college All-American,, LA Times Coach of the Year and has published many books on basketball. He was also a PAC-8 ref and even in his 70s reffed in the EBAL and the OAL. His view of referring is it is the ref's job is to facilitate a good basketball game, not strictly enforce the rules. The charge/block call is the toughest. His rule is to reward the player who was playing good basketball and not reward a player playing bad basketball.

The question on the jump shot is:
1. Was the defender in good position? No. Even if he got his feet set, he was behind the play
2. Did the contact help the offensive player? No.
3. Did the contact hurt the offensive player? Not really.
4. Was there a risk of injury due to the contact? No.
5. Was there obvious intent to initiate contact? No.

It is just an obvious no call. Just let them keep playing.

calumnus
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sluggo said:

calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Not to mention that moving both feet to avoid the defender like Randle does is not good footwork but the definition of traveling. That and the euro stepping is driving me crazy.


Except the defender was behind him playing catch-up after letting him blow past him. Never reward bad basketball with a call and an offensive foul is one of the costliest you can call. Besides, the offensive player is looking at the court in front of him when he jumps. It is at worst a no call.
I was not commenting on what is a foul. I just hate the two footed hop like Randle took, which Harden and Curry and others do. It is traveling, period. Or at least it should be.


Ok, I was just trying to stay in the thread and you appeared to be agreeing that an offensive foul should have been called.
oski003
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calumnus said:

oski003 said:

calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Not to mention that moving both feet to avoid the defender like Randle does is not good footwork but the definition of traveling. That and the euro stepping is driving me crazy.


Except the defender was behind him playing catch-up after letting him blow past him. Never reward bad basketball with a call and an offensive foul is one of the costliest you can call. Besides, the offensive player is looking at the court in front of him when he jumps. It is at worst a no call.


It doesn't matter if you are by somebody if you suddenly jump backward.


Suddenly jumping backward while shooting with a defender in front of you is a fadeaway jump shot.

My dad was a college All-American,, LA Times Coach of the Year and has published many books on basketball. He was also a PAC-8 ref and even in his 70s reffed in the EBAL and the OAL. His view of referring is it is the ref's job is to facilitate a good basketball game, not strictly enforce the rules. The charge/block call is the toughest. His rule is to reward the player who was playing good basketball and not reward a player playing bad basketball.

The question on the jump shot is:
1. Was the defender in good position? No. Even if he got his feet set, he was behind the play
2. Did the contact help the offensive player? No.
3. Did the contact hurt the offensive player? Not really.
4. Was there a risk of injury due to the contact? No.
5. Was there obvious intent to initiate contact? No.
YES.

It is just an obvious no call. Just let them keep playing.




#5 is what you are missing. Refs won't call it without #5.
calumnus
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oski003 said:

calumnus said:

oski003 said:

calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Not to mention that moving both feet to avoid the defender like Randle does is not good footwork but the definition of traveling. That and the euro stepping is driving me crazy.


Except the defender was behind him playing catch-up after letting him blow past him. Never reward bad basketball with a call and an offensive foul is one of the costliest you can call. Besides, the offensive player is looking at the court in front of him when he jumps. It is at worst a no call.


It doesn't matter if you are by somebody if you suddenly jump backward.


Suddenly jumping backward while shooting with a defender in front of you is a fadeaway jump shot.

My dad was a college All-American,, LA Times Coach of the Year and has published many books on basketball. He was also a PAC-8 ref and even in his 70s reffed in the EBAL and the OAL. His view of referring is it is the ref's job is to facilitate a good basketball game, not strictly enforce the rules. The charge/block call is the toughest. His rule is to reward the player who was playing good basketball and not reward a player playing bad basketball.

The question on the jump shot is:
1. Was the defender in good position? No. Even if he got his feet set, he was behind the play
2. Did the contact help the offensive player? No.
3. Did the contact hurt the offensive player? Not really.
4. Was there a risk of injury due to the contact? No.
5. Was there obvious intent to initiate contact? No.
YES.

It is just an obvious no call. Just let them keep playing.




#5 is what you are missing. Refs won't call it without #5.


There was no flop or exaggerated reaction after. So you are mind reading.

Besides it fails the other tests and the main test: Dont reward the defender for horrible defense unless the offensive player does something egregious or his foul gave him an advantage. Just swallow the whistle and let them play.

oski003
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calumnus said:

oski003 said:

calumnus said:

oski003 said:

calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Not to mention that moving both feet to avoid the defender like Randle does is not good footwork but the definition of traveling. That and the euro stepping is driving me crazy.


Except the defender was behind him playing catch-up after letting him blow past him. Never reward bad basketball with a call and an offensive foul is one of the costliest you can call. Besides, the offensive player is looking at the court in front of him when he jumps. It is at worst a no call.


It doesn't matter if you are by somebody if you suddenly jump backward.


Suddenly jumping backward while shooting with a defender in front of you is a fadeaway jump shot.

My dad was a college All-American,, LA Times Coach of the Year and has published many books on basketball. He was also a PAC-8 ref and even in his 70s reffed in the EBAL and the OAL. His view of referring is it is the ref's job is to facilitate a good basketball game, not strictly enforce the rules. The charge/block call is the toughest. His rule is to reward the player who was playing good basketball and not reward a player playing bad basketball.

The question on the jump shot is:
1. Was the defender in good position? No. Even if he got his feet set, he was behind the play
2. Did the contact help the offensive player? No.
3. Did the contact hurt the offensive player? Not really.
4. Was there a risk of injury due to the contact? No.
5. Was there obvious intent to initiate contact? No.
YES.

It is just an obvious no call. Just let them keep playing.




#5 is what you are missing. Refs won't call it without #5.


There was no flop or exaggerated reaction after. So you are mind reading.

Besides it fails the other tests and the main test: Dont reward the defender for horrible defense unless the offensive player does something egregious or his foul gave him an advantage. Just swallow the whistle and let them play.




Actually I agree that the Curry clip on its own is a no-call. On the flip side, watching the Sun's guards try to draw fouls like this (and more egregiously) over and over again in the playoffs was very irritating. I am glad they lost.
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