Dead man walking

3,469 Views | 28 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by dimitrig
helltopay1
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Suggested gift for Mark Fox for Xmas. Lots of luggage. Mahaney was always the litmus test for Fox. Getting Mahaney would have sent a positive signal for years to come. Losing Mahaney to a school which has a seating capacity of three seats sends the clear signal that Fox simply does not have the personality to connect with thge youth of today.
Vegas bookies are already taking bets on the month/year in which the AD visits Fox' office and says, " thank you for your service. I thin k you are young enough to find another line of work."
At this point, I am officially gone from supporting Cal sports. You can only bang your head against a wall so many times before the damage becomes irreversible .
joe amos yaks
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Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
AunBear89
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joe amos yaks said:

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.


He's lying. He'll never go away. He's like herpes.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Big C
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Oh ye of little faith: Our Sly Fox is going to surprise the naysayers!
helltopay1
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I agree.....Instead of winning six games this year, he will win seven..
helltopay1
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This hurts me . Can you find the Haas lobby????My name is on the wall.
Chapman_is_Gone
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helltopay1 said:

This hurts me . Can you find the Haas lobby????My name is on the wall.
Real Cal fans never type things like, "I am officially gone from supporting Cal sports." In fact, they never even think those thoughts, despite the great frustration of being a Cal fan.


4thGenCal
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helltopay1 said:

I agree.....Instead of winning six games this year, he will win seven..
Ha - Team will win double digit games this upcoming season for sure. Keep the faith, Cal fans are mostly very loyal and understand the playing field/court is not level. Many of us on this message board donate/support to give our team's a better chance of being competitive. Its in our blood/heart and roots to give as we can and or, when possible attend the games. Personally I will always donate because it does help and the Program/Dept are appreciative. The student athletes we have in the the program are upstanding/impressive young men.
Alkiadt
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helltopay1 said:

This hurts me . Can you find the Haas lobby????My name is on the wall.
A lot of people's names are on that wall, but the classy ones don't need to advertise it.

As for Fox, I am in the camp that he will win 12-14 this year.
The preseason schedule is pretty weak, (and I am not upset about that...they need wins anyway they can get them and this is a year they should have a weak schedule)... He and the team suffered more from loss of development last year than any team in America. Lars and a few others could not even be here for summer development last year. They could not even handle a basketball (outdoors, on a blacktop) until October of last year. Cal was (is) very young, and it showed. Losing Bradley? Others will step up, they'll have to. I think many will be surprised.

As for losing Mahaney, I'll be more upset if they don't land the other PG recruit. I have always preferred him over Mahaney. My opinion, no sour grapes.
Big C
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Alkiadt, I agree with all of your post; I am in the same place. One question though: Who is "the other PG recruit"?
philbert
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Big C said:


Alkiadt, I agree with all of your post; I am in the same place. One question though: Who is "the other PG recruit"?
Milos Uzan
sluggo
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philbert said:

Big C said:


Alkiadt, I agree with all of your post; I am in the same place. One question though: Who is "the other PG recruit"?
Milos Uzan
Thanks for letting us know. Cal is in the final 8 for him. Is there some reason to think he will choose Cal? Does not seem like an easy get.
philbert
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sluggo said:

philbert said:

Big C said:


Alkiadt, I agree with all of your post; I am in the same place. One question though: Who is "the other PG recruit"?
Milos Uzan
Thanks for letting us know. Cal is in the final 8 for him. Is there some reason to think he will choose Cal? Does not seem like an easy get.
I haven't read anything recent about him.

I'm hoping we hear something about Aligbe's visit this past weekend sometime before signing day....
sluggo
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philbert said:

sluggo said:

philbert said:

Big C said:


Alkiadt, I agree with all of your post; I am in the same place. One question though: Who is "the other PG recruit"?
Milos Uzan
Thanks for letting us know. Cal is in the final 8 for him. Is there some reason to think he will choose Cal? Does not seem like an easy get.
I haven't read anything recent about him.

I'm hoping we hear something about Aligbe's visit this past weekend sometime before signing day....
Cal has had very bad success recruiting randoms like Uzan. That is why I was more hopeful about Mahaney. Aligbe has known Francis for many years so is not a random.
calumnus
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Alkiadt said:

helltopay1 said:

This hurts me . Can you find the Haas lobby????My name is on the wall.
A lot of people's names are on that wall, but the classy ones don't need to advertise it.

As for Fox, I am in the camp that he will win 12-14 this year.
The preseason schedule is pretty weak, (and I am not upset about that...they need wins anyway they can get them and this is a year they should have a weak schedule)... He and the team suffered more from loss of development last year than any team in America. Lars and a few others could not even be here for summer development last year. They could not even handle a basketball (outdoors, on a blacktop) until October of last year. Cal was (is) very young, and it showed. Losing Bradley? Others will step up, they'll have to. I think many will be surprised.

As for losing Mahaney, I'll be more upset if they don't land the other PG recruit. I have always preferred him over Mahaney. My opinion, no sour grapes.


1. Under NCAA rules, teams cannot practice before October. Many teams have traditionally had "Midnight Madness" on that date. This year it is October 14. They then have 42 days to conduct a maximum of 30 practices. Cal starting practice in October is normal.

2. Santa Clara county had worse restrictions than Alameda County and the City of Berkeley. Los Angeles County was bad too.

3. Cal played as many or more preseason and regular season games as any other PAC-12 team. We played 27 games before the PAC-12 Tournament. UW and UCLA played 25. Oregon played 24. Utah and ASU played 23. We had 14 home games. UW had 11. Stanford had only 10 "home games" only 5 at Maples. They played 5 home games at Kaiser Permanente Center in Santa Cruz. Their first game at Maples was Feb.7

4. We were not young. 5 of our 6 with the most minutes were upperclassmen. 3 seniors, 2 juniors and 1 Sophomore.

5. This year that rotation, replacing Bradley with 6th year grad transfer Shepherd and Celestine starting looks to to be 4 seniors (including 3 super seniors in their 5th or 6th years) 1 junior and 1 sophomore in top 7. That is the opposite of young. It will likely be the oldest main rotation in Cal history, well at least in my memory. We will be much older than our competition.

Our 2021-22 Roster:
4 seniors (3 super seniors)
8 juniors
2 sophomores
3 freshmen

Again, this is not a young team

6. I agree Cal State LA, UCSD, USD, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Santa Clara, Dartmouth and Pacific, all to be played at Haas, is a weak schedule and should all be wins. That is 8. (Though Pacific and Santa Clara may be tough). We would then only need 1 more win to match last year's win total. With a few upset wins at Haas we should be able to exceed that, though the other bottom dwellers in the PAC-12 look to be improved and we are likely worse.

7. I am very grateful to you and everyone who supports Cal athletics. We will need our donors to dig deep in the coming years I suspect, though I'd love to be proven wrong. Go Bears!
Alkiadt
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calumnus said:

Alkiadt said:

helltopay1 said:

This hurts me . Can you find the Haas lobby????My name is on the wall.
A lot of people's names are on that wall, but the classy ones don't need to advertise it.

As for Fox, I am in the camp that he will win 12-14 this year.
The preseason schedule is pretty weak, (and I am not upset about that...they need wins anyway they can get them and this is a year they should have a weak schedule)... He and the team suffered more from loss of development last year than any team in America. Lars and a few others could not even be here for summer development last year. They could not even handle a basketball (outdoors, on a blacktop) until October of last year. Cal was (is) very young, and it showed. Losing Bradley? Others will step up, they'll have to. I think many will be surprised.

As for losing Mahaney, I'll be more upset if they don't land the other PG recruit. I have always preferred him over Mahaney. My opinion, no sour grapes.


1. Under NCAA rules, teams cannot practice before October. Many teams have traditionally had "Midnight Madness" on that date. This year it is October 14. They then have 42 days to conduct a maximum of 30 practices. Cal starting practice in October is normal.

2. Santa Clara county had worse restrictions than Alameda County and the City of Berkeley. Los Angeles County was bad too.

3. Cal played as many or more preseason and regular season games as any other PAC-12 team. We played 27 games before the PAC-12 Tournament. UW and UCLA played 25. Oregon played 24. Utah and ASU played 23. We had 14 home games. UW had 11. Stanford had only 10 "home games" only 5 at Maples. They played 5 home games at Kaiser Permanente Center in Santa Cruz. Their first game at Maples was Feb.7

4. We were not young. 5 of our 6 with the most minutes were upperclassmen. 3 seniors, 2 juniors and 1 Sophomore.

5. This year that rotation, replacing Bradley with 6th year grad transfer Shepherd and Celestine starting looks to to be 4 seniors (including 3 super seniors in their 5th or 6th years) 1 junior and 1 sophomore in top 7. That is the opposite of young. It will likely be the oldest main rotation in Cal history, well at least in my memory. We will be much older than our competition.

Our 2021-22 Roster:
4 seniors (3 super seniors)
8 juniors
2 sophomores
3 freshmen

Again, this is not a young team

6. I agree Cal State LA, UCSD, USD, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Santa Clara, Dartmouth and Pacific, all to be played at Haas, is a weak schedule and should all be wins. That is 8. (Though Pacific and Santa Clara may be tough). We would then only need 1 more win to match last year's win total. With a few upset wins at Haas we should be able to exceed that, though the other bottom dwellers in the PAC-12 look to be improved and we are likely worse.

7. I am very grateful to you and everyone who supports Cal athletics. We will need our donors to dig deep in the coming years I suspect, though I'd love to be proven wrong. Go Bears!


Regarding #1, you are referencing "formal" practices. All teams work out as a team in Summer. Here's what I'm talking about from what Cal players experienced this past summer:



If you don't think those are practices, with coach instruction, I don't know what to tell you. Players are getting exposure to drills by coaches. All teams are allowed to do this. Cal could not.

Speaking of Pac 12 teams, only Stanford had anything like Cal. Not sure what their workout restrictions were, but Arizona, Oregon etc. and every other team was indoors doing summer development workouts all last summer. And that definitely hurt the Bears, especially Lars who could not get out of Germany until school started. He needed these kinds of workouts. And like I said, the Bears could not even touch a Basketball until October. Until then, they were out on a blacktop court without a ball. They were way behind everyone, perhaps except Stanford. Again, not sure what they did last summer?

And, playing games is not practice. Playing games doesn't make you better. Practice and instruction prepares you for games. And senior transfers come in and help when they've had time to practice with their new teammates. So I expect to see improvement this year from all of them compared to last year.
socaliganbear
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Cal is definitely on the upswing.
Alkiadt
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socaliganbear said:

Cal is definitely on the upswing.
Well, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but they couldn't go lower.
socaliganbear
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Alkiadt said:

socaliganbear said:

Cal is definitely on the upswing.
Well, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but they couldn't go lower.


You had to say it...
BeachedBear
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Alkiadt said:


. . .

And, playing games is not practice. Playing games doesn't make you better. Practice and instruction prepares you for games. And senior transfers come in and help when they've had time to practice with their new teammates. So I expect to see improvement this year from all of them compared to last year.
I'm not sure if that was a typo, but almost every player or coach would disagree with your bolded statement above. playing game DOES make you better (at least at performing during games - maybe not in other life considerations - if that is what you meant).

Oakbear
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helltopay1 said:

This hurts me . Can you find the Haas lobby????My name is on the wall.
is your name exit? or men's
oski003
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BeachedBear said:

Alkiadt said:


. . .

And, playing games is not practice. Playing games doesn't make you better. Practice and instruction prepares you for games. And senior transfers come in and help when they've had time to practice with their new teammates. So I expect to see improvement this year from all of them compared to last year.
I'm not sure if that was a typo, but almost every player or coach would disagree with your bolded statement above. playing game DOES make you better (at least at performing during games - maybe not in other life considerations - if that is what you meant).


Playing games doesn't make you better

That is probably why I peaked at the RSF.
SFCityBear
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Alkiadt said:

socaliganbear said:

Cal is definitely on the upswing.
Well, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but they couldn't go lower.
Yes, they could. Remember Wyking?

I am one who feels Fox is an average coach, and I am in the camp (albeit a very small one) who feels Fox ought to be judged more on his first year, than last year, which had unusual challenges with the shutdowns and regulations for coaches, players, and fans alike. At the end of Fox's first season, most of the comments I read here were trending somewhat positive, and even with losing a few players, the team and coach stepped up and the team seemed to have improved over Wyking's last season especially on defense. I felt the vibe was leaning toward hopeful, but no longer. He needs our love, but we as a group are very unforgiving, it seems. He needs to overachieve this season, and do better than he did in year one. It is a tall order. This could be a very interesting season, and I'm looking forward to seeing the new players and to seeing how the veterans and the coach respond to perhaps the biggest basketball challenge they have ever faced. If I was a player, I'd be working my butt off to see that Cal and I never play that badly again. Same goes for Coach Fox.
SFCityBear
Alkiadt
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BeachedBear said:

Alkiadt said:


. . .

And, playing games is not practice. Playing games doesn't make you better. Practice and instruction prepares you for games. And senior transfers come in and help when they've had time to practice with their new teammates. So I expect to see improvement this year from all of them compared to last year.
I'm not sure if that was a typo, but almost every player or coach would disagree with your bolded statement above. playing game DOES make you better (at least at performing during games - maybe not in other life considerations - if that is what you meant).


Yes, playing in general will make you better. But you learn most in practice. You execute what you learn and are taught in practice. And yes game experience is invaluable.

My point was, and still is, Cal was hamstrung by more stringent (COB) covid restrictions last year compared to the the vast majority of the conference or country for that matter. And they missed out on off season summer development, which is a huge deal for younger players (Celestine, Bowser, Lars, Thortpe, Hyder, Brown etc...). That's why I feel they will be a more competitive team this year. 12-14 wins. If that's not the case, I'll be looking for a Knowlton to make a change.
socaltownie
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Alkiadt said:

BeachedBear said:

Alkiadt said:


. . .

And, playing games is not practice. Playing games doesn't make you better. Practice and instruction prepares you for games. And senior transfers come in and help when they've had time to practice with their new teammates. So I expect to see improvement this year from all of them compared to last year.
I'm not sure if that was a typo, but almost every player or coach would disagree with your bolded statement above. playing game DOES make you better (at least at performing during games - maybe not in other life considerations - if that is what you meant).


Yes, playing in general will make you better. But you learn most in practice. You execute what you learn and are taught in practice. And yes game experience is invaluable.

My point was, and still is, Cal was hamstrung by more stringent (COB) covid restrictions last year compared to the the vast majority of the conference or country for that matter. And they missed out on off season summer development, which is a huge deal for younger players (Celestine, Bowser, Lars, Thortpe, Hyder, Brown etc...). That's why I feel they will be a more competitive team this year. 12-14 wins. If that's not the case, I'll be looking for a Knowlton to make a change.


Sure. But the issue is talent. Losing Bradly is simply a gut check. Those "wins" on paper are just that - when you see what lack of talent we have it is going to be scary. Lars height will challenge D2 and recently elevated D1s (UCSD) but his challenges are much greater than lack of practice - his court sense is AWFUL and he can't jump to save his life (or a rebound).

Ultimately CBB is about recruiting and there is where Fox just sucks.
calumnus
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Alkiadt said:

BeachedBear said:

Alkiadt said:


. . .

And, playing games is not practice. Playing games doesn't make you better. Practice and instruction prepares you for games. And senior transfers come in and help when they've had time to practice with their new teammates. So I expect to see improvement this year from all of them compared to last year.
I'm not sure if that was a typo, but almost every player or coach would disagree with your bolded statement above. playing game DOES make you better (at least at performing during games - maybe not in other life considerations - if that is what you meant).


Yes, playing in general will make you better. But you learn most in practice. You execute what you learn and are taught in practice. And yes game experience is invaluable.

My point was, and still is, Cal was hamstrung by more stringent (COB) covid restrictions last year compared to the the vast majority of the conference or country for that matter. And they missed out on off season summer development, which is a huge deal for younger players (Celestine, Bowser, Lars, Thortpe, Hyder, Brown etc...). That's why I feel they will be a more competitive team this year. 12-14 wins. If that's not the case, I'll be looking for a Knowlton to make a change.


Cal had the regular "voluntary" summer workouts, they just had them outdoors. They also had an outdoor weight room. Up until 10 years ago coaches (other than S&C) could not attend (so all the great college teams of the past did without them). Now coaches can give a total of 4 hours of skills instruction per week during the Summer. The main purpose of sumner workouts is conditioning. Cal got that, just outdoors. They then had regular practices in Haas beginning in October. For the teams that played fewer games, it was usually due to COVID exposure so they missed games and practices. Cal was fortunate in that regard. Perhaps the protocols worked?

Stanford, San Jose State and Santa Clara had to deal with Santa Clara County's much more stringent protocols. Stanford could not meet on campus until February. They practiced In San Mateo and played their games in Santa Cruz until February.
helltopay1
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Fox coaching..C
Fox recruiting D-.
Net result..Luggage for Xmas.
stu
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helltopay1 said:

Fox coaching..C
Fox recruiting D-.
Net result..Luggage for Xmas.
Counting just the players Fox got I'd give him a straight D. Including the players he lost it's more like a straight F.
helltopay1
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Oakbear....Cute. Impertinent but cute. Get your name on thewall.....then we'll talk.
dimitrig
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helltopay1 said:

This hurts me . Can you find the Haas lobby????My name is on the wall.

Is your real name "Exit?"

Sorry. Booth.






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