Total win? I am picking <10.

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socaltownie
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2:51p, 10/5/21
In Jones' second year some of the optimists on BI said "Well we are going to turn the corner" and I famously called "they will not win 10 games." I won (still to be paid off, a bet of 30 top dogs which I figured if it ever was paid off I could treat students/randos on Telegraph and be a hero for an hour.

Calling it again, there is NO WAY this team wins more than 9 games. And we got a relatively easy OOC schedule. The main drama is whether this will be enough to end the Mark fox experiment. Sadly I doubt it (he will get 4 years) but given recruiting wiffs (to BC??) there is just no way we are going to get anywhere under him.

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parentswerebears
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2:59p, 10/5/21
I think their ceiling is 7. I hope I'm wrong, but even the dressed up quotes in the recently posted article here points to an ugly season. The new guys are athletic…. Ok. What about basketball chops? I certainly don't think Fox is a good teacher, so I doubt that he can teach these athletic guys to play D1 basketball.
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socaltownie
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In reply to parentswerebears • 3:03p, 10/5/21
parentswerebears said:
I think their ceiling is 7. I hope I'm wrong, but even the dressed up quotes in the recently posted article here points to an ugly season. The new guys are athletic…. Ok. What about basketball chops? I certainly don't think Fox is a good teacher, so I doubt that he can teach these athletic guys to play D1 basketball.
Actually I think that working on fundamentals (not necessarily teaching) is a fox strength. The kids DID improve in season 1 from the start to the finish and at a slightly faster rate than the competition.

It is rather the lack of talent. Watch this year - you will see most opponents have multiple guys who can break down guys 1 on 1 or get to their spot and make difficult shots. This will NOT be the Bears - who will need to execute flawlessly for buckets. And since it is a standard impossible there will be empty possessions a plenty and LONG periods of no points.

7 would be epically bad but I agree. that fees abbout right and I think the board will be dead except for a few of us by January 15th
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sluggo
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4:21p, 10/5/21
I predict 8. 3-5 wins out of conference, same in conference. The non-conference schedule does not appear to be as easy as in some years. The talent is very low, but the team usually plays hard for Fox, and that will lead to some wins.

Predicting under 10 is not that bold.
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bearsandgiants
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In reply to sluggo • 5:46p, 10/5/21
sluggo said:
I predict 8. 3-5 wins out of conference, same in conference. The non-conference schedule does not appear to be as easy as in some years. The talent is very low, but the team usually plays hard for Fox, and that will lead to some wins.

Predicting under 10 is not that bold.


You don't think Florida and Ohio State are gimmies?
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sluggo
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In reply to bearsandgiants • 6:04p, 10/5/21
bearsandgiants said:
sluggo said:
I predict 8. 3-5 wins out of conference, same in conference. The non-conference schedule does not appear to be as easy as in some years. The talent is very low, but the team usually plays hard for Fox, and that will lead to some wins.

Predicting under 10 is not that bold.


You don't think Florida and Ohio State are gimmies?
Of course not. But for example there are three games against West Coast Conference teams. I predict one win out of three. Cal loses to that conference regularly now.
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BC Calfan
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6:14p, 10/5/21
UC San Diego - WIN
at UNLV- LOSS
San Diego- WIN
Southern Utah ^- LOSS
vs. Florida ^- LOSS
vs. Ohio State/Seton Hall ^- LOSS
Fresno State- LOSS
Idaho State- WIN
Santa Clara- LOSS
Dartmouth- WIN
Pacific- LOSS

I see 4 wins OOC.

Then it gets even uglier for conference play. Who can we beat? UW and...?
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Chapman_is_Gone
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6:22p, 10/5/21
What a joke... the University of San Diego has apparently rebranded and is trying to call itself "San Diego." As a San Diego native, I can honestly tell you that I have NEVER heard that school called "San Diego" by anyone local. Everyone calls it "USD."

Frankly, it bugs me, as that small (and inconsequential) Roman Catholic school in no way represents San Diego. If any school does represent San Diego, today it would probably be SDSU. Hopefully UCSD can advance far enough athletically to represent the city some day, as it is obviously a better academic school than SDSU.
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4thGenCal
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In reply to socaltownie • 7:20p, 10/5/21
socaltownie said:
In Jones' second year some of the optimists on BI said "Well we are going to turn the corner" and I famously called "they will not win 10 games." I won (still to be paid off, a bet of 30 top dogs which I figured if it ever was paid off I could treat students/randos on Telegraph and be a hero for an hour.

Calling it again, there is NO WAY this team wins more than 9 games. And we got a relatively easy OOC schedule. The main drama is whether this will be enough to end the Mark fox experiment. Sadly I doubt it (he will get 4 years) but given recruiting wiffs (to BC??) there is just no way we are going to get anywhere under him.

Would love to place a bet with those who say 9 total wins or less. I am predicting 12 wins as this is a team that is better than the past 2 years under Fox - Deeper, better conditioned and experienced. Yes the talent level is average at best, but this group and coaches are very motivated. Btw 12 wins would not be impressive by any means and I am definitely on the fence with Coach Fox and his staff, but last season was unusually difficult for many reasons discussed and a couple not discussed. Staff has not yet shown any recruiting prowess and needs to bring in a very good PG and a physical/solid post player at both ends of the court.
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Big C
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In reply to 4thGenCal • 8:58p, 10/5/21

I'll one-up 4thGenCal: A BAKER'S DOZEN!!! ("Little-heralded Returnees Combine to Lift Golden Bears")

(these are the type of predictions i like making ... while we're still undefeated)
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SFCityBear
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In reply to Chapman_is_Gone • 11:27p, 10/5/21
Chapman_is_Gone said:
What a joke... the University of San Diego has apparently rebranded and is trying to call itself "San Diego." As a San Diego native, I can honestly tell you that I have NEVER heard that school called "San Diego" by anyone local. Everyone calls it "USD."

Frankly, it bugs me, as that small (and inconsequential) Roman Catholic school in no way represents San Diego. If any school does represent San Diego, today it would probably be SDSU. Hopefully UCSD can advance far enough athletically to represent the city some day, as it is obviously a better academic school than SDSU.
Jim Brovelli's USD teams improved every year of his 5 years as head coach, finally winning the WCC conference championship in his last season. USD won it again a few years later. But, a little like Cal, their last glory years were long ago.
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SFCityBear
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12:02a, 10/6/21
It seems like all of us are predicting this season's outcome by looking only or nearly so, on last year's team. We should be giving more weight to Fox's first team, 2019-2020, a team which had 14 wins, and 7 wins in conference. If you look at that roster, it sure appears to me that this year we have a better roster. We are more talented, better, deeper, and more experience. Several players on that team now have 2 years of experience. What that team had that this one does not have is basically a sophomore Matt Bradley, a senior point guard in Austin, and Kareem South. Brown is not yet as good a point guard as Austin was, either penetrating, scoring, or dishing, but he is much better on defense. I think Foreman is easily as good as South, and you also have Shepherd and Roberson, and then there is Hyder. So I think we are deeper and stronger at the guards. On that team of 2020, Bradley played a wing, because we had no one else, save an unskilled and raw Kuany. Celestine has turned out to be a very good player, and he will likely start at SF or SG. Now Kuany has two years experience, so he is better now. Bowser is a very athletic wing, and could challenge for playing time at SF. And the other wings Anyanwu and Alajiki are described as skilled high school players, they and Kuany can probably play SF or PF. Alajiki's mixtape looks to me like he could even play guard in a pinch. The bigs will be as they were the last two seasons, Kelly and Anticevich the most talented, with Lars and Thorpe backing them up, but all of them have had two years of playing experience, and now they have had a full off season of training and conditioning. I've seen the mixtapes of the incoming players, and the skill level is higher than I expected. Last year, when Bradley or Anticevich got injured, Cal had a very hard time competing. When they both went down, Cal was sunk. This year, with this depth, I don't see that happening.

Perhaps the Conference has gotten stronger overall since 2019-2020, but honestly the roster looks so much more talented and athletic overall, that I can see no reason, other than a whole lot of key injuries, why Cal can't be as good as Fox's 2019-2020 team. Without looking at the strength of the schedule, I'd say Cal wins or exceeds 14 games overall, and has 7 wins in Conference.
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BeachedBear
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6:54a, 10/6/21
I'm simply in SHOW ME mode this season. After Jones, and the whole Covid season - this is really FOX's last chance to PROVE something to me that this program is really turning around. My expectations are low, but whether its 8 wins, 10 or 12 or even 14 - none of those numbers indicate a program on the upswing.

Besides being competitive in every game and showing dramatic individual and team improvement, I want to see a strong OOC showing (much better than .500) and competing in top half of conference - OR ITS TIME TO MOVE ON.

Again, my expectations are low, but my standards are higher.
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HearstMining
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In reply to parentswerebears • 8:32a, 10/6/21
parentswerebears said:
I think their ceiling is 7. I hope I'm wrong, but even the dressed up quotes in the recently posted article here points to an ugly season. The new guys are athletic…. Ok. What about basketball chops? I certainly don't think Fox is a good teacher, so I doubt that he can teach these athletic guys to play D1 basketball.
I think you can coach athletic players to be good defenders quicker than to be offensive threats. In a nutshell, good defense requires athleticism, effort, and awareness. At least with Paris Austin, we saw his effort and awareness improve under Fox. Given how awful Cal's defense was last season, focusing on defense this year may be the best way for Cal to leverage its assets.
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sluggo
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In reply to 4thGenCal • 8:48a, 10/6/21
4thGenCal said:
socaltownie said:
In Jones' second year some of the optimists on BI said "Well we are going to turn the corner" and I famously called "they will not win 10 games." I won (still to be paid off, a bet of 30 top dogs which I figured if it ever was paid off I could treat students/randos on Telegraph and be a hero for an hour.

Calling it again, there is NO WAY this team wins more than 9 games. And we got a relatively easy OOC schedule. The main drama is whether this will be enough to end the Mark fox experiment. Sadly I doubt it (he will get 4 years) but given recruiting wiffs (to BC??) there is just no way we are going to get anywhere under him.

Would love to place a bet with those who say 9 total wins or less. I am predicting 12 wins as this is a team that is better than the past 2 years under Fox - Deeper, better conditioned and experienced. Yes the talent level is average at best, but this group and coaches are very motivated. Btw 12 wins would not be impressive by any means and I am definitely on the fence with Coach Fox and his staff, but last season was unusually difficult for many reasons discussed and a couple not discussed. Staff has not yet shown any recruiting prowess and needs to bring in a very good PG and a physical/solid post player at both ends of the court.
Not betting against the Bears. Just talking about them because this is a message board. I would like to be wrong. Just don't see how they can overcome the lack of scoring punch. My hope is that Kuany breaks out. That could set the team in a different arc.
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joe amos yaks
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In reply to socaltownie • 9:02a, 10/6/21
15-15 or better.
Go Bears!
__
Look out for OSu.
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BC Calfan
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9:13a, 10/6/21
I get the hopeful optimism. Every team in sports feels it before the season. But, we've been down that road many times recently.

When we struggle to score against UCSD, are losing in the second half, and have to bust our asses to beat them by 3 points, maybe that's when we all should make our season predictions.
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Chapman_is_Gone
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11:04a, 10/6/21
I'm simply in BLOW ME mode this season when it comes to Cal basketball.

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HoopDreams
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In reply to HearstMining • 12:31p, 10/6/21
HearstMining said:
parentswerebears said:
I think their ceiling is 7. I hope I'm wrong, but even the dressed up quotes in the recently posted article here points to an ugly season. The new guys are athletic…. Ok. What about basketball chops? I certainly don't think Fox is a good teacher, so I doubt that he can teach these athletic guys to play D1 basketball.
I think you can coach athletic players to be good defenders quicker than to be offensive threats. In a nutshell, good defense requires athleticism, effort, and awareness. At least with Paris Austin, we saw his effort and awareness improve under Fox. Given how awful Cal's defense was last season, focusing on defense this year may be the best way for Cal to leverage its assets.
agree.

Two our our freshmen look like pac12 elite athletes, although depending on where they play, could be undersized. If they are coming in with defensive fundamentals they can make a big impact. If not, I think it takes at least a year for them to become good defenders vs D1 teams.

But if they can defend and rebound against pac12 juniors/seniors then we might be able to hang our hat on defense as our identity. We also have the depth to run in fresh players often.

I don't see us having a strong offense this year, so we have to defend to have a shot
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Dgoldnbaer
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1:10p, 10/6/21
All of you positive minded ones consider mediocrity a success. Sad. Same perspective as the AD.
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SFCityBear
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In reply to Dgoldnbaer • 2:58p, 10/6/21
Dgoldnbaer said:
All of you positive minded ones consider mediocrity a success. Sad. Same perspective as the AD.
I consider it to be sad to always be down in the dumps with little hope, always complaining that things are never good enough.

Cal is Cal. We have our strengths and our weaknesses. Stanford, for example, has quite an advantage over Cal in recruiting. Cal has to abide by stricter admission policies, and does not have the money for athletics which Stanford has. We also don't have the land available for new facilities. And yet Cal somehow managed to compete fairly well against Stanford over the years.

Have you ever played on a losing team? I have. Losing games by 20 points or more. It is painful. Trying to get up for every game, trying to give your all in practice to get better. Players are miserable, depressed. They get angry with each other and they blame the coach. There are fist fights in the locker room. Then, somehow, the team manages to get its first win. Can you understand the exhilaration that the players felt, once they had that first W? It was like winning a league championship. Those are players who would have killed for some mediocrity.

I don't think a fan should call himself a fan, if he does not support the coach and players through thick and thin. Especially the players, because they agreed to come to Cal and play a team sport, which might give them personal success, but also give Cal some team success. There is nothing like team sports, where players of diverse backgrounds and personalities come together to achieve something together. It is an experience which will teach them team skills, which may be invaluable as they become part of society as adults. They came to play for themselves, for their family, for their team, their coach, and for their school. They did not come to Cal to play for you or me. Get over it.
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concernedparent
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In reply to SFCityBear • 6:25p, 10/6/21
SFCityBear said:
We should be giving more weight to Fox's first team, 2019-2020, a team which had 14 wins, and 7 wins in conference. If you look at that roster, it sure appears to me that this year we have a better roster. We are more talented, better, deeper, and more experience... What that team had that this one does not have is basically a sophomore Matt Bradley, a senior point guard in Austin, and Kareem South.

Somehow this is a more talented and better team even though it's missing an All-Pac 12 player in Bradley, and a solid point guard who would be the best player on this year's team in Austin. They should hire you to market next year's football team too.
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4thGenCal
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In reply to concernedparent • 8:52p, 10/6/21
concernedparent said:
SFCityBear said:
We should be giving more weight to Fox's first team, 2019-2020, a team which had 14 wins, and 7 wins in conference. If you look at that roster, it sure appears to me that this year we have a better roster. We are more talented, better, deeper, and more experience... What that team had that this one does not have is basically a sophomore Matt Bradley, a senior point guard in Austin, and Kareem South.

Somehow this is a more talented and better team even though it's missing an All-Pac 12 player in Bradley, and a solid point guard who would be the best player on this year's team in Austin. They should hire you to market next year's football team too.
I do believe in this team to exceed the expectations that the majority of posters have stated. One of the key player's on the team, has said this is the best team he has been on (at Cal) over the past 2 seasons. Thus I respect his assessment. While losing Bradley is a big hit in creating shots/taking the difficult end of clock shots and in experience - the team as a whole is improved. Will be fun to support this team regardless, They have sacrificed time and put in the effort to hopefully see positive results in the win column. 12-14 wins is very possible.
Pulling for them to surprise the pre season predictions and the majority of the fan base. Go Bears!
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HoopDreams
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In reply to 4thGenCal • 9:11p, 10/6/21
4thGenCal said:
concernedparent said:
SFCityBear said:
We should be giving more weight to Fox's first team, 2019-2020, a team which had 14 wins, and 7 wins in conference. If you look at that roster, it sure appears to me that this year we have a better roster. We are more talented, better, deeper, and more experience... What that team had that this one does not have is basically a sophomore Matt Bradley, a senior point guard in Austin, and Kareem South.

Somehow this is a more talented and better team even though it's missing an All-Pac 12 player in Bradley, and a solid point guard who would be the best player on this year's team in Austin. They should hire you to market next year's football team too.
I do believe in this team to exceed the expectations that the majority of posters have stated. One of the key player's on the team, has said this is the best team he has been on (at Cal) over the past 2 seasons. Thus I respect his assessment. While losing Bradley is a big hit in creating shots/taking the difficult end of clock shots and in experience - the team as a whole is improved. Will be fun to support this team regardless, They have sacrificed time and put in the effort to hopefully see positive results in the win column. 12-14 wins is very possible.
Pulling for them to surprise the pre season predictions and the majority of the fan base. Go Bears!
I will be there supporting the team, and do hope we exceed expectations

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calumnus
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In reply to HearstMining • 10:40p, 10/6/21
HearstMining said:
parentswerebears said:
I think their ceiling is 7. I hope I'm wrong, but even the dressed up quotes in the recently posted article here points to an ugly season. The new guys are athletic…. Ok. What about basketball chops? I certainly don't think Fox is a good teacher, so I doubt that he can teach these athletic guys to play D1 basketball.
I think you can coach athletic players to be good defenders quicker than to be offensive threats. In a nutshell, good defense requires athleticism, effort, and awareness. At least with Paris Austin, we saw his effort and awareness improve under Fox. Given how awful Cal's defense was last season, focusing on defense this year may be the best way for Cal to leverage its assets.


That was Fox's strategy at Georgia and it is his apparent strategy at Cal. That, and slowing down the games. It did allow him to hover around .500 in conference. I think it was a more viable strategy for attaining mediocrity at Georgia, where he access to a wealth of athletic talent and SEC refs allow much more physical and aggressive defense than in the Pac-12 and especially at Cal, but we will see.
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calumnus
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11:16p, 10/6/21
I don't ever make W/L predictions for Cal. I was less sanguine than most posters about our upcoming football season, and definitely saw our current record as a possibility, but hoped for much better.

I am even less sanguine about our prospects in basketball. I was crushed when we hired Mark Fox. I did not like his boring, brutish style of play at Georgia where he underachieved (and did not think it would translate well) , makes excuses for his own failings, throws players under the bus, and frankly, am turned off by his personality. His published first team meeting said it all. He had never successfully recruited a player from California before in his career. He was a very bad choice to give our $millions to and turn over our players and program to.

However, I root for Cal and for our players, always. I want them to win and improve. I want them to always be happy they chose to be Bears they are who we owe our allegiance to. So I will be rooting for them to win EVERY game. I will try not to criticize them for not being better players than they are. And if they win 20 and make Mark Fox look like a genius, then so be it, I will be VERY happy. I am looking forward to seeing the new players and rooting for them.

However, I do not owe Mark Fox loyalty. I do not owe him anything. We are paying him $millions to do a job. He owes us something in return. He is not Cal basketball, the players are. I want him to be successful only because I want the players to be successful.

Go Bears!
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mbBear
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In reply to Dgoldnbaer • 7:52a, 10/7/21
Dgoldnbaer said:
All of you positive minded ones consider mediocrity a success. Sad. Same perspective as the AD.
BS. "Positive minded ones" are the ones who come here as fans, wanting positive results, hoping for the best, praying for a miracle. Why waste time on anything else? Because opinions here matter sooo much?
I love the folks who think that a post here somehow translates to on court performance. Ridiculous.
You don't get to be Cal Fan of the Day because you get the biggest rip in on Fox or the program...

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socaltownie
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In reply to mbBear • 10:45a, 10/7/21
mbBear said:
Dgoldnbaer said:
All of you positive minded ones consider mediocrity a success. Sad. Same perspective as the AD.
BS. "Positive minded ones" are the ones who come here as fans, wanting positive results, hoping for the best, praying for a miracle. Why waste time on anything else? Because opinions here matter sooo much?
I love the folks who think that a post here somehow translates to on court performance. Ridiculous.
You don't get to be Cal Fan of the Day because you get the biggest rip in on Fox or the program...

I think the frustration is that we just don't see the kind of outrage that you see in other programs. Part of that is that often that outrage is voiced by media figures who "channel" fan outrage.

And I think some of this is that Cal fans, or at least many of them, have limited experience in how things are in other parts of the country. Clay is not coaching USC football, in part, because after the debacle the main lead sports columnist for the LA times called for his head (not the first time).

Now Cal is never going to have a Bill P. But it is telling that the Daily Cal has, to my recollection, never put on the front of their paper, "FIRE X NOW!". They would at many other campus papers - much less the general daily that covered Cal Sports. And part of the reason is that the DC and others know there is no real audience for that kind of fire and brimstone. There is among Trojan fans.

PS. The funny this is that when the comical DOES cover cal sports it is for things like the idiot hoops harassments story - one that was piled on by some blogger that I really do believe had a crush on the complainant. Where was the ****ing outrage of sonny's team being a joke on defense?
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Bobodeluxe
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12:12p, 10/7/21
Buh?
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HoopDreams
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12:51p, 10/7/21
some people just want to blame and fire people

if you're not shouting on the street, you are part of the problem

not for me, sorry
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BearSD
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In reply to Chapman_is_Gone • 2:00p, 10/7/21
Chapman_is_Gone said:
What a joke... the University of San Diego has apparently rebranded and is trying to call itself "San Diego." As a San Diego native, I can honestly tell you that I have NEVER heard that school called "San Diego" by anyone local. Everyone calls it "USD."

Frankly, it bugs me, as that small (and inconsequential) Roman Catholic school in no way represents San Diego. If any school does represent San Diego, today it would probably be SDSU. Hopefully UCSD can advance far enough athletically to represent the city some day, as it is obviously a better academic school than SDSU.
AFAIK, USD athletics has always used "USD" and "San Diego" interchangeably. Here's a link to a 2001 basketball team photo in which the front of the jersey says "San Diego".



For that matter, USF athletics uses "USF" and "San Francisco" interchangeably. Here's an example of that.





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Chapman_is_Gone
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2:44p, 10/7/21
Point taken. However, my main point was that nobody local calls them "San Diego." I mean NOBODY. They can call themselves whatever they want, but it makes them look foolish, IMO.
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Big C
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In reply to Chapman_is_Gone • 3:46p, 10/7/21
Chapman_is_Gone said:
Point taken. However, my main point was that nobody local calls them "San Diego." I mean NOBODY. They can call themselves whatever they want, but it makes them look foolish, IMO.

Sort of like when we call ourselves "California", with the one slight difference being that it makes us look AWESOME.
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HearstMining
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In reply to BearSD • 9:02p, 10/7/21
BearSD said:
Chapman_is_Gone said:
What a joke... the University of San Diego has apparently rebranded and is trying to call itself "San Diego." As a San Diego native, I can honestly tell you that I have NEVER heard that school called "San Diego" by anyone local. Everyone calls it "USD."

Frankly, it bugs me, as that small (and inconsequential) Roman Catholic school in no way represents San Diego. If any school does represent San Diego, today it would probably be SDSU. Hopefully UCSD can advance far enough athletically to represent the city some day, as it is obviously a better academic school than SDSU.
AFAIK, USD athletics has always used "USD" and "San Diego" interchangeably. Here's a link to a 2001 basketball team photo in which the front of the jersey says "San Diego".



For that matter, USF athletics uses "USF" and "San Francisco" interchangeably. Here's an example of that.





USF has kind of had their brand stolen. If you'd said USF 20-30 years ago, everybody knew you meant the Dons. Now I think anybody outside the Bay Area would assume you were talking about University of South Florida.
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ncbears
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9:17p, 10/7/21
All I know is that the men's basketball team will win more games than the football team.
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