calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Does this mean that we are in the Driver's Seat?

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Does this mean that we are in the Driver's Seat?

---

As in football, we can be the "bad loss" spoilers for the rest of the conference.

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Thanks for sharing even though it is very sobering. In a vacuum, our returning talent and new additions might have improved our program. In reality, we compete against 11 other teams and we've fallen further behind.

Of course this on paper and the actual games are yet to be played, but it should come as no surprise why we're picked to finish last.

HKBear97! said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Thanks for sharing even though it is very sobering. In a vacuum, our returning talent and new additions might have improved our program. In reality, we compete against 11 other teams and we've fallen further behind.

Of course this on paper and the actual games are yet to be played, but it should come as no surprise why we're picked to finish last.

---

As reference, Bradley was named first team last year (20-21), but we also had no one named the year before (19-20).

Hopefully at least one player emerges to make the post-season list, which is much more important.

calumnus said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Thanks for sharing even though it is very sobering. In a vacuum, our returning talent and new additions might have improved our program. In reality, we compete against 11 other teams and we've fallen further behind.

Of course this on paper and the actual games are yet to be played, but it should come as no surprise why we're picked to finish last.

---

As reference, Bradley was named first team last year (20-21), but we also had no one named the year before (19-20).

Hopefully at least one player emerges to make the post-season list, which is much more important.

---

The only hope, IMO is Andre Kelly but that possibility hinges on Fox being smart enough to:

1. Keep Andre on the floor

2. Get Andre the ball where he can do something with it

Well, now that I think about it there is no chance if it depends on Fox.....

bearmanpg said:

---

calumnus said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Thanks for sharing even though it is very sobering. In a vacuum, our returning talent and new additions might have improved our program. In reality, we compete against 11 other teams and we've fallen further behind.

Of course this on paper and the actual games are yet to be played, but it should come as no surprise why we're picked to finish last.

---

As reference, Bradley was named first team last year (20-21), but we also had no one named the year before (19-20).

Hopefully at least one player emerges to make the post-season list, which is much more important.

---

The only hope, IMO is Andre Kelly but that possibility hinges on Fox being smart enough to:

1. Keep Andre on the floor

2. Get Andre the ball where he can do something with it

Well, now that I think about it there is no chance if it depends on Fox.....

---

I could see Ben Braun running the offense through Kelly like he did with Lampley and Powe. Monty liked going inside out, especially at Stanford., but he was on another level for offensive efficiency. Fox is somewhere below Braun in Xs and Os. Fox has brought in a lot of athletic wings who cannot shoot but can attack the basket because that is the offense he likes. All indications are that most likely Shepard replaces Bradley in last year's offense.

Yes, we will have slashers and a capable scoring center

But unless we have shooters to spread the court teams will just pack the paint and stop the slashers and center to score

And our best shooters aren't slashers

Not sure how we are going to get points

calumnus said:

---

bearmanpg said:

---

calumnus said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Thanks for sharing even though it is very sobering. In a vacuum, our returning talent and new additions might have improved our program. In reality, we compete against 11 other teams and we've fallen further behind.

Of course this on paper and the actual games are yet to be played, but it should come as no surprise why we're picked to finish last.

---

As reference, Bradley was named first team last year (20-21), but we also had no one named the year before (19-20).

Hopefully at least one player emerges to make the post-season list, which is much more important.

---

The only hope, IMO is Andre Kelly but that possibility hinges on Fox being smart enough to:

1. Keep Andre on the floor

2. Get Andre the ball where he can do something with it

Well, now that I think about it there is no chance if it depends on Fox.....

---

I could see Ben Braun running the offense through Kelly like he did with Lampley and Powe. Monty liked going inside out, especially at Stanford., but he was on another level for offensive efficiency. Fox is somewhere below Braun in Xs and Os. Fox has brought in a lot of athletic wings who cannot shoot but can attack the basket because that is the offense he likes. All indications are that most likely Shepard replaces Bradley in last year's offense.

---

calumnus said:

---

bearmanpg said:

---

calumnus said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Thanks for sharing even though it is very sobering. In a vacuum, our returning talent and new additions might have improved our program. In reality, we compete against 11 other teams and we've fallen further behind.

Of course this on paper and the actual games are yet to be played, but it should come as no surprise why we're picked to finish last.

---

As reference, Bradley was named first team last year (20-21), but we also had no one named the year before (19-20).

Hopefully at least one player emerges to make the post-season list, which is much more important.

---

The only hope, IMO is Andre Kelly but that possibility hinges on Fox being smart enough to:

1. Keep Andre on the floor

2. Get Andre the ball where he can do something with it

Well, now that I think about it there is no chance if it depends on Fox.....

---

I could see Ben Braun running the offense through Kelly like he did with Lampley and Powe. Monty liked going inside out, especially at Stanford., but he was on another level for offensive efficiency. Fox is somewhere below Braun in Xs and Os. Fox has brought in a lot of athletic wings who cannot shoot but can attack the basket because that is the offense he likes. All indications are that most likely Shepard replaces Bradley in last year's offense.

---

Except that Kelly is no Lampley, and Kelly is no Powe. Not yet, anyway. And when Braun ran the offense through Powe, the ball never came back out. That's OK when you don't have much complementary talent. And the inside man has to be a dominant scorer and force inside. Kelly is not yet a dominant player inside. The Celtics often ran their offense through Kevin McHale, and Larry Bird used to call Kevin "The Black Hole", because when the ball went inside to McKale, it never came back out.

bearmanpg said:

---

calumnus said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Thanks for sharing even though it is very sobering. In a vacuum, our returning talent and new additions might have improved our program. In reality, we compete against 11 other teams and we've fallen further behind.

Of course this on paper and the actual games are yet to be played, but it should come as no surprise why we're picked to finish last.

---

As reference, Bradley was named first team last year (20-21), but we also had no one named the year before (19-20).

Hopefully at least one player emerges to make the post-season list, which is much more important.

---

The only hope, IMO is Andre Kelly but that possibility hinges on Fox being smart enough to:

1. Keep Andre on the floor

2. Get Andre the ball where he can do something with it

Well, now that I think about it there is no chance if it depends on Fox.....

---

Some of that depends on Andre as well. I have watched a few games where he runs out of gas, and when he comes out, he is huffing and puffing on the sideline. He also needs to be able to get up and down faster. Fox can't play him if he is too tired. I don't care about Kelly making any post-season list. That is great, but it is an individual award. I am interested in team awards, beginning with winning games, and I assume that is what Fox and most fans would want. If the bench behind him has not improved, Kelly needs to be able to play 35 minutes when needed, which may be often, in order for this team to get wins. Or at least that was what was needed in the last two seasons. Sometimes Kelly was able to play 35, sometimes not. Even better would be to see enough improvement in Lars or Thorpe, to be able to spell Kelly at key times, and not lose ground. Hopefully, Anyanwu can contribute some at PF.

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Does this mean that we are in the Driver's Seat?

---

As in football, we can be the "bad loss" spoilers for the rest of the conference.

---

At this point, I will take any win we can get and love it. As I wrote before, I expect 14, and will be disappointed
with anything less.

---

Was UCSD included in your 14 expected wins?

So I am revising downward. Said under 10 wins. I am going with under 5.

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Does this mean that we are in the Driver's Seat?

---

As in football, we can be the "bad loss" spoilers for the rest of the conference.

---

At this point, I will take any win we can get and love it. As I wrote before, I expect 14, and will be disappointed
with anything less.

---

Was UCSD included in your 14 expected wins?

---

Well, no need to worry. Your boy Celestine will return soon and then the team will get back on track.

Look, I made the prediction just to counter all the cynicism building on the board week by week, whether it was warranted or not. Cal fans are a particularly cynical bunch, it seems, especially over something we can do almost nothing about, which makes the word "fan" a misnomer in this case.

So why didn't you tell me ahead of time that Cal would be missing 5 players for the first game of the season? I, along with everyone else was predicting a win over UCSD. but if you had told me we will be playing our very first game missing one starter, Celestine, one other rotation player (our best 3-point shooter), Foreman, and three players who are possible rotation players, Thorpe, Bowser, and Roberson, then I would not have predicted a win.

Predictions are made (and I think all of us made our predictions based on what we knew or felt about the roster or the coach and the schedule) assuming a full complement of players, healthy players. The reality is that every team has players who will get injured and miss games or will play hurt. That is modern basketball, and modern sports. When Willie Mays played baseball, players usually played 9 innings every game every day, and there was no disabled list. Today players are platooned, play only a few innings, usually don't play every day, and there are THREE disabled lists for all the injured.

You don't know this, but before the football season, I predicted that Arizona would be one of Cal's wins. At game time, Cal had 5 starters out with injury or Covid positive tests including their best player, and lost. A couple weeks ago, when I heard USC's best player was out, I predicted Cal would beat USC. Now the game has been cancelled due to Cal having 44 players test positive. In basketball, even if you have only 1 or 2 players hurt, it can kill your chances. Last year 2 of our 3 best players got hurt, and the season was toast.

Before Covid, injuries had become a fact of life in college basketball. It is impossible to make an accurate prediction of any kind in any sport now. It must be driving bookies and gamblers nuts.

Many players these days seem to get hurt in practice. When I first saw Ty Wallace play, driving to the basket and crashing to the floor, I predicted he would hurt himself. It was a miracle that it took him 4 years to finally get hurt, and sure enough, his last injury occurred in a scrimmage, and probably cost Cal a chance a run in the NCAA. How did Jabari Bird get hurt? It was a back injury. Those are usually a contact thing. He was a very fragile player at Cal, often getting injured. I always felt that Cuonzo was partially to blame, by taking a smooth finesse player who had a great short- and mid-range game, and trying to make him a more physical player taking it hard to the rim, or shooting threes. Of the two, Bird seemed to prefer shooting threes.

Since you seem to know a lot that is negative about Mark Fox, would you know whether Fox's practice sessions, especially his scrimmages, are especially physical or rough, with a lot of contact, and players trying to overextend themselves beyond what is safe?

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Does this mean that we are in the Driver's Seat?

---

As in football, we can be the "bad loss" spoilers for the rest of the conference.

---

At this point, I will take any win we can get and love it. As I wrote before, I expect 14, and will be disappointed
with anything less.

---

Was UCSD included in your 14 expected wins?

---

Well, no need to worry. Your boy Celestine will return soon and then the team will get back on track.

Look, I made the prediction just to counter all the cynicism building on the board week by week, whether it was warranted or not. Cal fans are a particularly cynical bunch, it seems, especially over something we can do almost nothing about, which makes the word "fan" a misnomer in this case.

So why didn't you tell me ahead of time that Cal would be missing 5 players for the first game of the season? I, along with everyone else was predicting a win over UCSD. but if you had told me we will be playing our very first game missing one starter, Celestine, one other rotation player (our best 3-point shooter), Foreman, and three players who are possible rotation players, Thorpe, Bowser, and Roberson, then I would not have predicted a win.

Predictions are made (and I think all of us made our predictions based on what we knew or felt about the roster or the coach and the schedule) assuming a full complement of players, healthy players. The reality is that every team has players who will get injured and miss games or will play hurt. That is modern basketball, and modern sports. When Willie Mays played baseball, players usually played 9 innings every game every day, and there was no disabled list. Today players are platooned, play only a few innings, usually don't play every day, and there are THREE disabled lists for all the injured.

You don't know this, but before the football season, I predicted that Arizona would be one of Cal's wins. At game time, Cal had 5 starters out with injury or Covid positive tests including their best player, and lost. A couple weeks ago, when I heard USC's best player was out, I predicted Cal would beat USC. Now the game has been cancelled due to Cal having 44 players test positive. In basketball, even if you have only 1 or 2 players hurt, it can kill your chances. Last year 2 of our 3 best players got hurt, and the season was toast.

Before Covid, injuries had become a fact of life in college basketball. It is impossible to make an accurate prediction of any kind in any sport now. It must be driving bookies and gamblers nuts.

Many players these days seem to get hurt in practice. When I first saw Ty Wallace play, driving to the basket and crashing to the floor, I predicted he would hurt himself. It was a miracle that it took him 4 years to finally get hurt, and sure enough, his last injury occurred in a scrimmage, and probably cost Cal a chance a run in the NCAA. How did Jabari Bird get hurt? It was a back injury. Those are usually a contact thing. He was a very fragile player at Cal, often getting injured. I always felt that Cuonzo was partially to blame, by taking a smooth finesse player who had a great short- and mid-range game, and trying to make him a more physical player taking it hard to the rim, or shooting threes. Of the two, Bird seemed to prefer shooting threes.

Since you seem to know a lot that is negative about Mark Fox, would you know whether Fox's practice sessions, especially his scrimmages, are especially physical or rough, with a lot of contact, and players trying to overextend themselves beyond what is safe?

---

My father occasionally attends Stanford practices and afterwards Haase always asks for his opinion and pointers. I could tell you about ways Stanford has improved their practices as a result. As one example, Haase had a poor free throw shooter practice shooting free throws, 35 at a time. My father pointed out that in a game no one stands at the line and shoots 35 free throws. Missing your first 2, then hitting 33, is not good practice. So Haase now has the players take turns, walk to the line, prepare, and shoot two, like they would in a game. Just one example.

My father has also helped with communications and learning. In an earlier post I mentioned "democratic" and people jumped on that but more of what I was getting at is almost Socratic. How do you get the players to 1) understand what you are talking about and translate it to their actions on the court in real time and 2) understand and buy in so they agree and want to it and 3) practice it so they can then execute it. Verbal commands, especially when said in anger or frustration, are rarely effective. If you can help the players come to the solution themselves (even if you already know what it is) they will remember it and be committed to it. Moreover, you are training them to be confident problem solvers on the court. You cannot drill every situation. Basketball is not a symphony with the coach as conductor. It is jazz, with the players improvising within a framework.

I do not attend Mark Fox's practices and other than 4th Gen's accounts, brief videos or photos we've seen and Mark Fox's own words, I can only speculate. However, from what we do know it does not surprise me at all that our players are more likely to get injured in practices than in games. "We practice hard all week."

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Does this mean that we are in the Driver's Seat?

---

As in football, we can be the "bad loss" spoilers for the rest of the conference.

---

At this point, I will take any win we can get and love it. As I wrote before, I expect 14, and will be disappointed
with anything less.

---

Was UCSD included in your 14 expected wins?

---

Well, no need to worry. Your boy Celestine will return soon and then the team will get back on track.

Look, I made the prediction just to counter all the cynicism building on the board week by week, whether it was warranted or not. Cal fans are a particularly cynical bunch, it seems, especially over something we can do almost nothing about, which makes the word "fan" a misnomer in this case.

So why didn't you tell me ahead of time that Cal would be missing 5 players for the first game of the season? I, along with everyone else was predicting a win over UCSD. but if you had told me we will be playing our very first game missing one starter, Celestine, one other rotation player (our best 3-point shooter), Foreman, and three players who are possible rotation players, Thorpe, Bowser, and Roberson, then I would not have predicted a win.

Predictions are made (and I think all of us made our predictions based on what we knew or felt about the roster or the coach and the schedule) assuming a full complement of players, healthy players. The reality is that every team has players who will get injured and miss games or will play hurt. That is modern basketball, and modern sports. When Willie Mays played baseball, players usually played 9 innings every game every day, and there was no disabled list. Today players are platooned, play only a few innings, usually don't play every day, and there are THREE disabled lists for all the injured.

You don't know this, but before the football season, I predicted that Arizona would be one of Cal's wins. At game time, Cal had 5 starters out with injury or Covid positive tests including their best player, and lost. A couple weeks ago, when I heard USC's best player was out, I predicted Cal would beat USC. Now the game has been cancelled due to Cal having 44 players test positive. In basketball, even if you have only 1 or 2 players hurt, it can kill your chances. Last year 2 of our 3 best players got hurt, and the season was toast.

Before Covid, injuries had become a fact of life in college basketball. It is impossible to make an accurate prediction of any kind in any sport now. It must be driving bookies and gamblers nuts.

Many players these days seem to get hurt in practice. When I first saw Ty Wallace play, driving to the basket and crashing to the floor, I predicted he would hurt himself. It was a miracle that it took him 4 years to finally get hurt, and sure enough, his last injury occurred in a scrimmage, and probably cost Cal a chance a run in the NCAA. How did Jabari Bird get hurt? It was a back injury. Those are usually a contact thing. He was a very fragile player at Cal, often getting injured. I always felt that Cuonzo was partially to blame, by taking a smooth finesse player who had a great short- and mid-range game, and trying to make him a more physical player taking it hard to the rim, or shooting threes. Of the two, Bird seemed to prefer shooting threes.

Since you seem to know a lot that is negative about Mark Fox, would you know whether Fox's practice sessions, especially his scrimmages, are especially physical or rough, with a lot of contact, and players trying to overextend themselves beyond what is safe?

---

My father occasionally attends Stanford practices and afterwards Haase always asks for his opinion and pointers. I could tell you about ways Stanford has improved their practices as a result. As one example, Haase had a poor free throw shooter practice shooting free throws, 35 at a time. My father pointed out that in a game no one stands at the line and shoots 35 free throws. Missing your first 2, then hitting 33, is not good practice. So Haase now has the players take turns, walk to the line, prepare, and shoot two, like they would in a game. Just one example.

My father has also helped with communications and learning. In an earlier post I mentioned "democratic" and people jumped on that but more of what I was getting at is almost Socratic. How do you get the players to 1) understand what you are talking about and translate it to their actions on the court in real time and 2) understand and buy in so they agree and want to it and 3) practice it so they can then execute it. Verbal commands, especially when said in anger or frustration, are rarely effective. If you can help the players come to the solution themselves (even if you already know what it is) they will remember it and be committed to it. Moreover, you are training them to be confident problem solvers on the court. You cannot drill every situation. Basketball is not a symphony with the coach as conductor. It is jazz, with the players improvising within a framework.

I do not attend Mark Fox's practices and other than 4th Gen's accounts, brief videos or photos we've seen and Mark Fox's own words, I can only speculate. However, from what we do know it does not surprise me at all that our players are more likely to get injured in practices than in games. "We practice hard all week."

---

Practices are not over the top physical, cardio definitely has improved overall with transition drills, etc - very well structured and efficient. Regarding the current injuries - DJ inadvertently banged his head and is not yet ready to play (lingering effects via a concussion). Forman turned his ankle and will be ready to play next week. Roberson has an illness that he has not shaken yet, Bowers I am not sure of his situation. Celenstine had a rod put in his leg (also dislocated his knee in HS) and even though surgery was successful (over spring) its taking time for him to be pain free. Should be ready either next game or game after.

4thGenCal said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Does this mean that we are in the Driver's Seat?

---

As in football, we can be the "bad loss" spoilers for the rest of the conference.

---

At this point, I will take any win we can get and love it. As I wrote before, I expect 14, and will be disappointed
with anything less.

---

Was UCSD included in your 14 expected wins?

---

Well, no need to worry. Your boy Celestine will return soon and then the team will get back on track.

Look, I made the prediction just to counter all the cynicism building on the board week by week, whether it was warranted or not. Cal fans are a particularly cynical bunch, it seems, especially over something we can do almost nothing about, which makes the word "fan" a misnomer in this case.

So why didn't you tell me ahead of time that Cal would be missing 5 players for the first game of the season? I, along with everyone else was predicting a win over UCSD. but if you had told me we will be playing our very first game missing one starter, Celestine, one other rotation player (our best 3-point shooter), Foreman, and three players who are possible rotation players, Thorpe, Bowser, and Roberson, then I would not have predicted a win.

Predictions are made (and I think all of us made our predictions based on what we knew or felt about the roster or the coach and the schedule) assuming a full complement of players, healthy players. The reality is that every team has players who will get injured and miss games or will play hurt. That is modern basketball, and modern sports. When Willie Mays played baseball, players usually played 9 innings every game every day, and there was no disabled list. Today players are platooned, play only a few innings, usually don't play every day, and there are THREE disabled lists for all the injured.

You don't know this, but before the football season, I predicted that Arizona would be one of Cal's wins. At game time, Cal had 5 starters out with injury or Covid positive tests including their best player, and lost. A couple weeks ago, when I heard USC's best player was out, I predicted Cal would beat USC. Now the game has been cancelled due to Cal having 44 players test positive. In basketball, even if you have only 1 or 2 players hurt, it can kill your chances. Last year 2 of our 3 best players got hurt, and the season was toast.

Before Covid, injuries had become a fact of life in college basketball. It is impossible to make an accurate prediction of any kind in any sport now. It must be driving bookies and gamblers nuts.

Many players these days seem to get hurt in practice. When I first saw Ty Wallace play, driving to the basket and crashing to the floor, I predicted he would hurt himself. It was a miracle that it took him 4 years to finally get hurt, and sure enough, his last injury occurred in a scrimmage, and probably cost Cal a chance a run in the NCAA. How did Jabari Bird get hurt? It was a back injury. Those are usually a contact thing. He was a very fragile player at Cal, often getting injured. I always felt that Cuonzo was partially to blame, by taking a smooth finesse player who had a great short- and mid-range game, and trying to make him a more physical player taking it hard to the rim, or shooting threes. Of the two, Bird seemed to prefer shooting threes.

Since you seem to know a lot that is negative about Mark Fox, would you know whether Fox's practice sessions, especially his scrimmages, are especially physical or rough, with a lot of contact, and players trying to overextend themselves beyond what is safe?

---

My father occasionally attends Stanford practices and afterwards Haase always asks for his opinion and pointers. I could tell you about ways Stanford has improved their practices as a result. As one example, Haase had a poor free throw shooter practice shooting free throws, 35 at a time. My father pointed out that in a game no one stands at the line and shoots 35 free throws. Missing your first 2, then hitting 33, is not good practice. So Haase now has the players take turns, walk to the line, prepare, and shoot two, like they would in a game. Just one example.

My father has also helped with communications and learning. In an earlier post I mentioned "democratic" and people jumped on that but more of what I was getting at is almost Socratic. How do you get the players to 1) understand what you are talking about and translate it to their actions on the court in real time and 2) understand and buy in so they agree and want to it and 3) practice it so they can then execute it. Verbal commands, especially when said in anger or frustration, are rarely effective. If you can help the players come to the solution themselves (even if you already know what it is) they will remember it and be committed to it. Moreover, you are training them to be confident problem solvers on the court. You cannot drill every situation. Basketball is not a symphony with the coach as conductor. It is jazz, with the players improvising within a framework.

I do not attend Mark Fox's practices and other than 4th Gen's accounts, brief videos or photos we've seen and Mark Fox's own words, I can only speculate. However, from what we do know it does not surprise me at all that our players are more likely to get injured in practices than in games. "We practice hard all week."

---

Practices are not over the top physical, cardio definitely has improved overall with transition drills, etc - very well structured and efficient. Regarding the current injuries - DJ inadvertently banged his head and is not yet ready to play (lingering effects via a concussion). Forman turned his ankle and will be ready to play next week. Roberson has an illness that he has not shaken yet, Bowers I am not sure of his situation. Celenstine had a rod put in his leg (also dislocated his knee in HS) and even though surgery was successful (over spring) its taking time for him to be pain free. Should be ready either next game or game after.

---

Thanks, I hope everyone heals up soon.

SFCityBear said:

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...
So why didn't you tell me ahead of time that Cal would be missing 5 players for the first game of the season? I, along with everyone else was predicting a win over UCSD. but if you had told me we will be playing our very first game missing one starter, Celestine, one other rotation player (our best 3-point shooter), Foreman, and three players who are possible rotation players, Thorpe, Bowser, and Roberson, then I would not have predicted a win.
...

---

That evening our women were missing their best player (Daniels), their best center (Heide), and their most experienced guard (Ortiz). Another possible starting guard was hobbled by injury. They won by 19, shooting 55% with 20 assists and 7 turnovers.

stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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...
So why didn't you tell me ahead of time that Cal would be missing 5 players for the first game of the season? I, along with everyone else was predicting a win over UCSD. but if you had told me we will be playing our very first game missing one starter, Celestine, one other rotation player (our best 3-point shooter), Foreman, and three players who are possible rotation players, Thorpe, Bowser, and Roberson, then I would not have predicted a win.
...

---

That evening our women were missing their best player (Daniels), their best center (Heide), and their most experienced guard (Ortiz). Another possible starting guard was hobbled by injury. They won by 19, shooting 55% with 20 assists and 7 turnovers.

---

A friend of mine asked me yesterday if the Cal women have a good team this year. I had no idea. So would you answer "Yes"?

If so, maybe I should switch to following the Cal women's team.

I'm sure the Cal women will be much improved and I can say after 2 exhibitions and 1 OOC game they're playing like a team.

OTOH they play in the toughest conference in the country , the key players are sophs and juniors, and many of the players have been injured.

Bottom line - I'll be watching them.

SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Does this mean that we are in the Driver's Seat?

---

As in football, we can be the "bad loss" spoilers for the rest of the conference.

---

At this point, I will take any win we can get and love it. As I wrote before, I expect 14, and will be disappointed
with anything less.

---

Was UCSD included in your 14 expected wins?

---

Well, no need to worry. Your boy Celestine will return soon and then the team will get back on track.

Look, I made the prediction just to counter all the cynicism building on the board week by week, whether it was warranted or not. Cal fans are a particularly cynical bunch, it seems, especially over something we can do almost nothing about, which makes the word "fan" a misnomer in this case.

So why didn't you tell me ahead of time that Cal would be missing 5 players for the first game of the season? I, along with everyone else was predicting a win over UCSD. but if you had told me we will be playing our very first game missing one starter, Celestine, one other rotation player (our best 3-point shooter), Foreman, and three players who are possible rotation players, Thorpe, Bowser, and Roberson, then I would not have predicted a win.

Predictions are made (and I think all of us made our predictions based on what we knew or felt about the roster or the coach and the schedule) assuming a full complement of players, healthy players. The reality is that every team has players who will get injured and miss games or will play hurt. That is modern basketball, and modern sports. When Willie Mays played baseball, players usually played 9 innings every game every day, and there was no disabled list. Today players are platooned, play only a few innings, usually don't play every day, and there are THREE disabled lists for all the injured.

You don't know this, but before the football season, I predicted that Arizona would be one of Cal's wins. At game time, Cal had 5 starters out with injury or Covid positive tests including their best player, and lost. A couple weeks ago, when I heard USC's best player was out, I predicted Cal would beat USC. Now the game has been cancelled due to Cal having 44 players test positive. In basketball, even if you have only 1 or 2 players hurt, it can kill your chances. Last year 2 of our 3 best players got hurt, and the season was toast.

Before Covid, injuries had become a fact of life in college basketball. It is impossible to make an accurate prediction of any kind in any sport now. It must be driving bookies and gamblers nuts.

Many players these days seem to get hurt in practice. When I first saw Ty Wallace play, driving to the basket and crashing to the floor, I predicted he would hurt himself. It was a miracle that it took him 4 years to finally get hurt, and sure enough, his last injury occurred in a scrimmage, and probably cost Cal a chance a run in the NCAA. How did Jabari Bird get hurt? It was a back injury. Those are usually a contact thing. He was a very fragile player at Cal, often getting injured. I always felt that Cuonzo was partially to blame, by taking a smooth finesse player who had a great short- and mid-range game, and trying to make him a more physical player taking it hard to the rim, or shooting threes. Of the two, Bird seemed to prefer shooting threes.

Since you seem to know a lot that is negative about Mark Fox, would you know whether Fox's practice sessions, especially his scrimmages, are especially physical or rough, with a lot of contact, and players trying to overextend themselves beyond what is safe?

---

Let's be honest here....we have a pretty good idea that Thorpe, Bowser and Roberson wouldn't have much of an impact on any game this season....Celestine and Foreman probably would have helped to keep it closer but IMHO they wouldn't have flipped the outcome......All teams have injuries and have to learn to play through them....

bearmanpg said:

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SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Cal has no one, first team, second team or honorable mention.
https://pac-12.com/article/2021/10/13/media-selects-preseason-2021-22-pac-12-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I guess we can thank Oski Utah decided to blow up their program as they also have zero players named. Of course, that is because they have zero starters returning.

Four McDonald's All-Americans coming into PAC-12. 10 All-Conference transfers. Not sure if Shepard was included in that, he was third team All Conference USA two years ago, but not last year.

It appears the other 2020 BDWs: UW, WSU and ASU are getting significant talent infusions and it's going to be tougher to get wins. UCLA, Oregon, Colorado, USC, Arizona, Stanford, ASU and OSU are all considered potential NCAA Tournament teams. They are all going to need to get wins against us to get there.

---

Does this mean that we are in the Driver's Seat?

---

As in football, we can be the "bad loss" spoilers for the rest of the conference.

---

At this point, I will take any win we can get and love it. As I wrote before, I expect 14, and will be disappointed
with anything less.

---

Was UCSD included in your 14 expected wins?

---

Well, no need to worry. Your boy Celestine will return soon and then the team will get back on track.

Look, I made the prediction just to counter all the cynicism building on the board week by week, whether it was warranted or not. Cal fans are a particularly cynical bunch, it seems, especially over something we can do almost nothing about, which makes the word "fan" a misnomer in this case.

So why didn't you tell me ahead of time that Cal would be missing 5 players for the first game of the season? I, along with everyone else was predicting a win over UCSD. but if you had told me we will be playing our very first game missing one starter, Celestine, one other rotation player (our best 3-point shooter), Foreman, and three players who are possible rotation players, Thorpe, Bowser, and Roberson, then I would not have predicted a win.

Predictions are made (and I think all of us made our predictions based on what we knew or felt about the roster or the coach and the schedule) assuming a full complement of players, healthy players. The reality is that every team has players who will get injured and miss games or will play hurt. That is modern basketball, and modern sports. When Willie Mays played baseball, players usually played 9 innings every game every day, and there was no disabled list. Today players are platooned, play only a few innings, usually don't play every day, and there are THREE disabled lists for all the injured.

You don't know this, but before the football season, I predicted that Arizona would be one of Cal's wins. At game time, Cal had 5 starters out with injury or Covid positive tests including their best player, and lost. A couple weeks ago, when I heard USC's best player was out, I predicted Cal would beat USC. Now the game has been cancelled due to Cal having 44 players test positive. In basketball, even if you have only 1 or 2 players hurt, it can kill your chances. Last year 2 of our 3 best players got hurt, and the season was toast.

Before Covid, injuries had become a fact of life in college basketball. It is impossible to make an accurate prediction of any kind in any sport now. It must be driving bookies and gamblers nuts.

Many players these days seem to get hurt in practice. When I first saw Ty Wallace play, driving to the basket and crashing to the floor, I predicted he would hurt himself. It was a miracle that it took him 4 years to finally get hurt, and sure enough, his last injury occurred in a scrimmage, and probably cost Cal a chance a run in the NCAA. How did Jabari Bird get hurt? It was a back injury. Those are usually a contact thing. He was a very fragile player at Cal, often getting injured. I always felt that Cuonzo was partially to blame, by taking a smooth finesse player who had a great short- and mid-range game, and trying to make him a more physical player taking it hard to the rim, or shooting threes. Of the two, Bird seemed to prefer shooting threes.

Since you seem to know a lot that is negative about Mark Fox, would you know whether Fox's practice sessions, especially his scrimmages, are especially physical or rough, with a lot of contact, and players trying to overextend themselves beyond what is safe?

---

Let's be honest here....we have a pretty good idea that Thorpe, Bowser and Roberson wouldn't have much of an impact on any game this season....Celestine and Foreman probably would have helped to keep it closer but IMHO they wouldn't have flipped the outcome......All teams have injuries and have to learn to play through them....

---

Hypothetical and thus a guess, but having 5 players of your top 14 players (and more important 3 of your top 10 players who would see PT) is a noticeable impact. Result is that the staff was forced to play Klonaras for 11 minutes and the top 4 players (Brown, Grant, Kelly, Shepard) did not get the extra 3-5 minutes of rest normally received. All teams certainly have injuries, just that to have this many for the first game is highly unusual. Next weeks game's will be a better barometer for this team.