I saw on another thread that Cal is only one of 4 teams without a full time practice facililty (assuming its referring to men's teams)

As big as a fan I am, this issue is something I know little about. Can somebody clue me in to
The specifics of the issue
How much it really hurts recruiting
Any possible solution?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

parentswerebears said:

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Gym rats want to practice when they want to practice with little interruption. If they have to share with volleyball, squash, coeds playing quidditch and HoopDream's pickup games, there is less time to dedicate to training for their future NBA career. And since you have to throw down your 1000 shots a day to become more elite, you don't want to have to sign up to use the court, you want it ready and waiting for you. And every other program we are competing with has one, so not having one makes Cal that much less inviting.

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So then is the situation that Haas is used as a practice facility shared by Cal Men's basketball, with perhaps Cal Women's basketball and volleyball?
Please excuse me for my ignorance in this issue I'm curious starting from complete scratch.. So for instance does the Stanford men's team get full use of Maples for their practicing? Do the Stanford women practice in a separate building or separate court? Or the other way around? Please clue me in with the basics. I apologize for being so clueless on this subject.

I honestly don't know specifics.

There have been for some time designs for a practice facility adjacent to Haas but nothing has happened. I assume the issue is money.

https://archinect.com/lukeivers/project/u-c-berkeley-haas-pavilion-practice-facility

My understanding is that there is a dedicated gym for the use of the men's and women's basketball team -- and in some schools, there's one for each gender.

Often the gyms are located next to weight rooms and training facilities, making it convenient for players to work on their bodies and their games.

Though going down to the gym and shooting 500 threes at 2 a.m. (or noon) every day might not make you a great shooter, it's not going to hurt. So sharing RSF and Haas with all those who use those facilities is a huge negative. If I'm a hard-working player, pro dreams or not, I want to be able to work -- and if I can't get into a gym as I can at other places, then why would I choose Cal?

My understanding of today's situation:

MBB and WBB share Haas with VB and it's also used for gymnastics matches and VB matches limiting the use further

They also have some reserved times to use the gold gym for team practices

I've seen them there often but have only occasionally seen a player practicing there individually (I remember seeing Roman hit 8-10 threes which I thought was interesting because he was a poor shooter in games. Of course he was unguarded)

" …coeds playing quidditch"

Honestly I don't know why this is such a problem.

There are wealthy individuals that have their own gyms at their houses. OK very wealthy.

A gym can't be that hard to construct or buy a current gym somewhere. Or even create some outdoor courts for shoot around and drills?

And I don't get who uses Haas so much -- shouldn't the basketball teams have priority with the floor cut in half perpendicular with the bleachers cleared out?

KoreAmBear said:

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Honestly I don't know why this is such a problem.

There are wealthy individuals that have their own gyms at their houses. OK very wealthy.

A gym can't be that hard to construct or buy a current gym somewhere. Or even create some outdoor courts for shoot around and drills?

And I don't get who uses Haas so much -- shouldn't the basketball teams have priority with the floor cut in half perpendicular with the bleachers cleared out?

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The cost to construct a dedicated practice facility 3-4 years ago was in the $30M range, today likely $50M+. It needs to be on campus/adjacent to the regular arena - further away/outdoor courts/separating the court is hokey and not the answer for several bonafide reasons. Hoops Dreams outlined the teams that use it, plus on occasion its used for final exams! Not having a dedicated practice facility is a no go for many recruits - and since 98% of D1 schools offer it, Cal is at a tremendous recruiting disadvantage. Yes there is the Gold/RSF indoor courts but its not impressive to a recruit and that as well has multiple scheduling conflicts. I remember a player telling me that he was only able to book it/get a quarter ct late at night(after 10pm)

4thGenCal said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Honestly I don't know why this is such a problem.

There are wealthy individuals that have their own gyms at their houses. OK very wealthy.

A gym can't be that hard to construct or buy a current gym somewhere. Or even create some outdoor courts for shoot around and drills?

And I don't get who uses Haas so much -- shouldn't the basketball teams have priority with the floor cut in half perpendicular with the bleachers cleared out?

---

The cost to construct a dedicated practice facility 3-4 years ago was in the $30M range, today likely $50M+. It needs to be on campus/adjacent to the regular arena - further away/outdoor courts/separating the court is hokey and not the answer for several bonafide reasons. Hoops Dreams outlined the teams that use it, plus on occasion its used for final exams! Not having a dedicated practice facility is a no go for many recruits - and since 98% of D1 schools offer it, Cal is at a tremendous recruiting disadvantage. Yes there is the Gold/RSF indoor courts but its not impressive to a recruit and that as well has multiple scheduling conflicts. I remember a player telling me that he was only able to book it/get a quarter ct late at night(after 10pm)

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We should build a court on the roof of the RSF. Light construction with plexiglass walls providing views of the Bay, San Francisco, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Campanile, the hills, Big C, the stadium, etc. That should be both inexpensive and impressive to recruits. RSF is open 24 hrs so players would have access to showers, lockers, vending machines.

calumnus said:

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4thGenCal said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Honestly I don't know why this is such a problem.

There are wealthy individuals that have their own gyms at their houses. OK very wealthy.

A gym can't be that hard to construct or buy a current gym somewhere. Or even create some outdoor courts for shoot around and drills?

And I don't get who uses Haas so much -- shouldn't the basketball teams have priority with the floor cut in half perpendicular with the bleachers cleared out?

---

The cost to construct a dedicated practice facility 3-4 years ago was in the $30M range, today likely $50M+. It needs to be on campus/adjacent to the regular arena - further away/outdoor courts/separating the court is hokey and not the answer for several bonafide reasons. Hoops Dreams outlined the teams that use it, plus on occasion its used for final exams! Not having a dedicated practice facility is a no go for many recruits - and since 98% of D1 schools offer it, Cal is at a tremendous recruiting disadvantage. Yes there is the Gold/RSF indoor courts but its not impressive to a recruit and that as well has multiple scheduling conflicts. I remember a player telling me that he was only able to book it/get a quarter ct late at night(after 10pm)

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We should build a court on the roof of the RSF. Light construction with plexiglass walls providing views of the Bay, San Francisco, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Campanile, the hills, Big C, the stadium, etc. That should be both inexpensive and impressive to recruits. RSF is open 24 hrs so players would have access to showers, lockers, vending machines.

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I recall a similar design, but in the small parking lot north adjacent to Haas. Renderings look cool. Yes - money is an issue - as is program success (chicken/egg). I'd also like to hear some commentary from others involved if there is any campus/political will issues involved and what they are (i.e. why do we spend $50 M on a facility for a few dozen people, when many departments are being asked to cut budgets, etc.)

Big C said:

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FWIW, I remember Cuonzo Martin, at one point, complaining that there were a couple of times when they couldn't even use the court at Haas when he wanted it... for an organized team practice. (Or am I thinking of the court at RSF that had supposedly become "theirs"?)

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If Rickie Hawthorne had come up to me at Harmon when I was playing intramural basketball, I would have said,

"Get away from me, Rickie, the team can wait it's turn for the court, can't you see that I'm a busy raining down bombs (two pointers in those days) on this dorm team!"

Thanks for the info everybody. You would think Cal would be able to implement some kind of change, either policy concerning the teams involved, or come up with a cost effective way to solve this problem. Very frustrating.

But the university doesn't actually care enough about sports to make it happen.

If talent is crucial to success, and if recruiting attracts talent, then the lack of a quality dedicated practice facility is a major negative.

Sure, something could be thrown together, but compared to the facilities that other schools have, a 17-year-old elite athlete with professional dreams is not going to be impressed at all. Again, a hard-working, talented player wants the ability to go shoot and work on his game at any time, without worrying about reserving a time or having to play pickup with locals.

And having his own personal locker, with shoes, workout clothes, etc., is important too. That means you can just show up any time and get down to it. (I don't know about laundry, but I'm guessing at USC, a player can put his workout clothes in a basket and have them washed by the next time he shows up.)

On top of that, Haas Pavilion is an older facility without either charm or glitz, which is a lesser negative, but still something coaches have to overcome.

ClayK said:

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If talent is crucial to success, and if recruiting attracts talent, then the lack of a quality dedicated practice facility is a major negative.

Sure, something could be thrown together, but compared to the facilities that other schools have, a 17-year-old elite athlete with professional dreams is not going to be impressed at all. Again, a hard-working, talented player wants the ability to go shoot and work on his game at any time, without worrying about reserving a time or having to play pickup with locals.

And having his own personal locker, with shoes, workout clothes, etc., is important too. That means you can just show up any time and get down to it. (I don't know about laundry, but I'm guessing at USC, a player can put his workout clothes in a basket and have them washed by the next time he shows up.)

On top of that, Haas Pavilion is an older facility without either charm or glitz, which is a lesser negative, but still something coaches have to overcome.

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This. And if we stood back and took off preconceptions of athletes lets look at it this way.

Lets say we were PASSIONATE about music. I mean really passionate and wanted the Cal Orchestra to the be absolute best in the world. Lets also say that we were "competing" the Juliard or the Berklee School of music. They offered dedicated practice rooms that were acoustically amazing with pianos for accompaniment to which students to could have access day or night to work on their craft. Cal did not. Would we be amazed those institutions had better music programs? Of course not.

The issue is that we hold onto this idea that college sports is an "extraciricular" For the kind of kids that win championships it is not. College for many of them is seen, right or wrong, as a stopping point for practicing a craft which, for some, will pay them more (and in some cases much more) than a freshly minted BA.

BeachedBear said:

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calumnus said:

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4thGenCal said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Honestly I don't know why this is such a problem.

There are wealthy individuals that have their own gyms at their houses. OK very wealthy.

A gym can't be that hard to construct or buy a current gym somewhere. Or even create some outdoor courts for shoot around and drills?

And I don't get who uses Haas so much -- shouldn't the basketball teams have priority with the floor cut in half perpendicular with the bleachers cleared out?

---

The cost to construct a dedicated practice facility 3-4 years ago was in the $30M range, today likely $50M+. It needs to be on campus/adjacent to the regular arena - further away/outdoor courts/separating the court is hokey and not the answer for several bonafide reasons. Hoops Dreams outlined the teams that use it, plus on occasion its used for final exams! Not having a dedicated practice facility is a no go for many recruits - and since 98% of D1 schools offer it, Cal is at a tremendous recruiting disadvantage. Yes there is the Gold/RSF indoor courts but its not impressive to a recruit and that as well has multiple scheduling conflicts. I remember a player telling me that he was only able to book it/get a quarter ct late at night(after 10pm)

---

We should build a court on the roof of the RSF. Light construction with plexiglass walls providing views of the Bay, San Francisco, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Campanile, the hills, Big C, the stadium, etc. That should be both inexpensive and impressive to recruits. RSF is open 24 hrs so players would have access to showers, lockers, vending machines.

---

I recall a similar design, but in the small parking lot north adjacent to Haas. Renderings look cool. Yes - money is an issue - as is program success (chicken/egg). I'd also like to hear some commentary from others involved if there is any campus/political will issues involved and what they are (i.e. why do we spend $50 M on a facility for a few dozen people, when many departments are being asked to cut budgets, etc.)

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I posted this link above: https://archinect.com/lukeivers/project/u-c-berkeley-haas-pavilion-practice-facility

GoCal80 said:

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BeachedBear said:

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calumnus said:

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4thGenCal said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Honestly I don't know why this is such a problem.

There are wealthy individuals that have their own gyms at their houses. OK very wealthy.

A gym can't be that hard to construct or buy a current gym somewhere. Or even create some outdoor courts for shoot around and drills?

And I don't get who uses Haas so much -- shouldn't the basketball teams have priority with the floor cut in half perpendicular with the bleachers cleared out?

---

The cost to construct a dedicated practice facility 3-4 years ago was in the $30M range, today likely $50M+. It needs to be on campus/adjacent to the regular arena - further away/outdoor courts/separating the court is hokey and not the answer for several bonafide reasons. Hoops Dreams outlined the teams that use it, plus on occasion its used for final exams! Not having a dedicated practice facility is a no go for many recruits - and since 98% of D1 schools offer it, Cal is at a tremendous recruiting disadvantage. Yes there is the Gold/RSF indoor courts but its not impressive to a recruit and that as well has multiple scheduling conflicts. I remember a player telling me that he was only able to book it/get a quarter ct late at night(after 10pm)

---

We should build a court on the roof of the RSF. Light construction with plexiglass walls providing views of the Bay, San Francisco, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Campanile, the hills, Big C, the stadium, etc. That should be both inexpensive and impressive to recruits. RSF is open 24 hrs so players would have access to showers, lockers, vending machines.

---

I recall a similar design, but in the small parking lot north adjacent to Haas. Renderings look cool. Yes - money is an issue - as is program success (chicken/egg). I'd also like to hear some commentary from others involved if there is any campus/political will issues involved and what they are (i.e. why do we spend $50 M on a facility for a few dozen people, when many departments are being asked to cut budgets, etc.)

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I posted this link above: https://archinect.com/lukeivers/project/u-c-berkeley-haas-pavilion-practice-facility

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did cal hire an architect to design this?

is it a live proposal that cal is trying to fund?

GoCal80 said:

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BeachedBear said:

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calumnus said:

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4thGenCal said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Honestly I don't know why this is such a problem.

There are wealthy individuals that have their own gyms at their houses. OK very wealthy.

A gym can't be that hard to construct or buy a current gym somewhere. Or even create some outdoor courts for shoot around and drills?

And I don't get who uses Haas so much -- shouldn't the basketball teams have priority with the floor cut in half perpendicular with the bleachers cleared out?

---

The cost to construct a dedicated practice facility 3-4 years ago was in the $30M range, today likely $50M+. It needs to be on campus/adjacent to the regular arena - further away/outdoor courts/separating the court is hokey and not the answer for several bonafide reasons. Hoops Dreams outlined the teams that use it, plus on occasion its used for final exams! Not having a dedicated practice facility is a no go for many recruits - and since 98% of D1 schools offer it, Cal is at a tremendous recruiting disadvantage. Yes there is the Gold/RSF indoor courts but its not impressive to a recruit and that as well has multiple scheduling conflicts. I remember a player telling me that he was only able to book it/get a quarter ct late at night(after 10pm)

---

We should build a court on the roof of the RSF. Light construction with plexiglass walls providing views of the Bay, San Francisco, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Campanile, the hills, Big C, the stadium, etc. That should be both inexpensive and impressive to recruits. RSF is open 24 hrs so players would have access to showers, lockers, vending machines.

---

I recall a similar design, but in the small parking lot north adjacent to Haas. Renderings look cool. Yes - money is an issue - as is program success (chicken/egg). I'd also like to hear some commentary from others involved if there is any campus/political will issues involved and what they are (i.e. why do we spend $50 M on a facility for a few dozen people, when many departments are being asked to cut budgets, etc.)

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I posted this link above: https://archinect.com/lukeivers/project/u-c-berkeley-haas-pavilion-practice-facility

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That's nice.

HoopDreams said:

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GoCal80 said:

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BeachedBear said:

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calumnus said:

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4thGenCal said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Honestly I don't know why this is such a problem.

There are wealthy individuals that have their own gyms at their houses. OK very wealthy.

A gym can't be that hard to construct or buy a current gym somewhere. Or even create some outdoor courts for shoot around and drills?

And I don't get who uses Haas so much -- shouldn't the basketball teams have priority with the floor cut in half perpendicular with the bleachers cleared out?

---

The cost to construct a dedicated practice facility 3-4 years ago was in the $30M range, today likely $50M+. It needs to be on campus/adjacent to the regular arena - further away/outdoor courts/separating the court is hokey and not the answer for several bonafide reasons. Hoops Dreams outlined the teams that use it, plus on occasion its used for final exams! Not having a dedicated practice facility is a no go for many recruits - and since 98% of D1 schools offer it, Cal is at a tremendous recruiting disadvantage. Yes there is the Gold/RSF indoor courts but its not impressive to a recruit and that as well has multiple scheduling conflicts. I remember a player telling me that he was only able to book it/get a quarter ct late at night(after 10pm)

---

We should build a court on the roof of the RSF. Light construction with plexiglass walls providing views of the Bay, San Francisco, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Campanile, the hills, Big C, the stadium, etc. That should be both inexpensive and impressive to recruits. RSF is open 24 hrs so players would have access to showers, lockers, vending machines.

---

I recall a similar design, but in the small parking lot north adjacent to Haas. Renderings look cool. Yes - money is an issue - as is program success (chicken/egg). I'd also like to hear some commentary from others involved if there is any campus/political will issues involved and what they are (i.e. why do we spend $50 M on a facility for a few dozen people, when many departments are being asked to cut budgets, etc.)

---

I posted this link above: https://archinect.com/lukeivers/project/u-c-berkeley-haas-pavilion-practice-facility

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did cal hire an architect to design this?

is it a live proposal that cal is trying to fund?

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I don't know the answer to that question. There is some discussion here: https://news.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Cal_Athletics_Report-2018.pdf

"FOCUS ON CONTINUED IMPROVEMENTS TO PRACTICE AND COMPETITION FACILITIES The revenue potential for football and men's basketball is far superior to all other sports and should be supported appropriately as investments in creating resources for the entire department. One such investment is a practice facility for court sports including men's basketball. Currently, when the basketball teams use the recreation center for practices they are displacing undergraduate and graduate students using the facility. A privately funded, practice facility will not only serve men's and women's basketball, but will minimize conflicts with student recreation and offer greater practice flexibility for court sports."

Can anyone who played at a high level comment on whether it's a good or bad idea to have glass as the entire wall behind the basket? My guess is that would not be desirable for visibility and depth perception reasons.

bearister said:

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" …coeds playing quidditch"

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Cancel the other sports.

GoCal80 said:

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HoopDreams said:

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GoCal80 said:

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BeachedBear said:

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calumnus said:

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4thGenCal said:

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KoreAmBear said:

---

Honestly I don't know why this is such a problem.

There are wealthy individuals that have their own gyms at their houses. OK very wealthy.

A gym can't be that hard to construct or buy a current gym somewhere. Or even create some outdoor courts for shoot around and drills?

And I don't get who uses Haas so much -- shouldn't the basketball teams have priority with the floor cut in half perpendicular with the bleachers cleared out?

Ugly design. Just awful

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The cost to construct a dedicated practice facility 3-4 years ago was in the $30M range, today likely $50M+. It needs to be on campus/adjacent to the regular arena - further away/outdoor courts/separating the court is hokey and not the answer for several bonafide reasons. Hoops Dreams outlined the teams that use it, plus on occasion its used for final exams! Not having a dedicated practice facility is a no go for many recruits - and since 98% of D1 schools offer it, Cal is at a tremendous recruiting disadvantage. Yes there is the Gold/RSF indoor courts but its not impressive to a recruit and that as well has multiple scheduling conflicts. I remember a player telling me that he was only able to book it/get a quarter ct late at night(after 10pm)

---

We should build a court on the roof of the RSF. Light construction with plexiglass walls providing views of the Bay, San Francisco, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Campanile, the hills, Big C, the stadium, etc. That should be both inexpensive and impressive to recruits. RSF is open 24 hrs so players would have access to showers, lockers, vending machines.

---

I recall a similar design, but in the small parking lot north adjacent to Haas. Renderings look cool. Yes - money is an issue - as is program success (chicken/egg). I'd also like to hear some commentary from others involved if there is any campus/political will issues involved and what they are (i.e. why do we spend $50 M on a facility for a few dozen people, when many departments are being asked to cut budgets, etc.)

---

I posted this link above: https://archinect.com/lukeivers/project/u-c-berkeley-haas-pavilion-practice-facility

---

did cal hire an architect to design this?

is it a live proposal that cal is trying to fund?

---

I don't know the answer to that question. There is some discussion here: https://news.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Cal_Athletics_Report-2018.pdf

"FOCUS ON CONTINUED IMPROVEMENTS TO PRACTICE AND COMPETITION FACILITIES The revenue potential for football and men's basketball is far superior to all other sports and should be supported appropriately as investments in creating resources for the entire department. One such investment is a practice facility for court sports including men's basketball. Currently, when the basketball teams use the recreation center for practices they are displacing undergraduate and graduate students using the facility. A privately funded, practice facility will not only serve men's and women's basketball, but will minimize conflicts with student recreation and offer greater practice flexibility for court sports."

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Ugly design.

I think this is ucla's practice facility, but not sure (I think they covered up some of the branding)

causal pickup game vs some youtube hoopers (best UCLA player in this pickup playing for the YouTubers)

Chapman_is_Gone said:

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Can anyone who played at a high level comment on whether it's a good or bad idea to have glass as the entire wall behind the basket? My guess is that would not be desirable for visibility and depth perception reasons.

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There is no wall behind the basket at Haas or any other stadium that the actual games will be played. Just stands full of fans, often times trying to distract you. Better to learn to shoot without that as a reference and just focus on the basket.

HoopDreams said:

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I think this is ucla's practice facility, but not sure (I think they covered up some of the branding)

causal pickup game vs some youtube hoopers (best UCLA player in this pickup playing for the YouTubers)

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Fun video. The UCLA guys are on autopilot, but you can see how insanely skilled Jaquez and Jules Bernard are. Their best guys aren't that athletic but have tons of moves and can shoot. They can iso and buy a bucket anytime whereas our guys have to scrap for looks.

concernedparent said:

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HoopDreams said:

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I think this is ucla's practice facility, but not sure (I think they covered up some of the branding)

causal pickup game vs some youtube hoopers (best UCLA player in this pickup playing for the YouTubers)

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Fun video. The UCLA guys are on autopilot, but you can see how insanely skilled Jaquez and Jules Bernard are. Their best guys aren't that athletic but have tons of moves and can shoot. They can iso and buy a bucket anytime whereas our guys have to scrap for looks.

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Jaquez is a hooper for sure

The blond player is Tristan Jass who blew up on social media 3 years ago and now makes big $$$. He has crazy handles and finishing packages you won't believe. Fun to watch

While the rendering of the proposed Practice Facility is beautiful, we certainly don't need that. Something more modest along the lines of what UCLA has would be more than adequate. Just a fieldhouse with room for 2 courts and nice locker rooms. Can that not be built for 5-7 mil?

BC Calfan said:

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While the rendering of the proposed Practice Facility is beautiful, we certainly don't need that. Something more modest along the lines of what UCLA has would be more than adequate. Just a fieldhouse with room for 2 courts and nice locker rooms. Can that not be built for 5-7 mil?

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Agreed. Nothing fancy. Just some hardwood and some hoops.

BC Calfan said:

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While the rendering of the proposed Practice Facility is beautiful, we certainly don't need that. Something more modest along the lines of what UCLA has would be more than adequate. Just a fieldhouse with room for 2 courts and nice locker rooms. Can that not be built for 5-7 mil?

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No a snow balls chance! Construction costs have skyrocketed and when you factor in union labor/GC requirements, ADA, earthquake protections, UC Berkeley review process and architectural requirements, its easily $50M+. And that does not factor in other potential uses being requested.

annarborbear said:

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The appropriate sources of funds for this should be:

1. Surcharge on basketball season tickets
2. Donors
3. Sale of building naming rights
4. Cal players and coaches now in the NBA and making large salaries

If you can't get these people to pay, then there is simply not enough interest in Cal basketball

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Yes however 1,3,4 won't move the needle much. Its one thing to get 15-20 people donating $100-300k each, its another to get those same people to donate $500k-$1M+ and even then, a large donation of $20M+ is still needed. Its an ongoing discussion, but not nearly as doable as thought. Heck - getting enough people to fund crucial needed housing for our student athlete housing, is not the slam dunk one would surmise.