Watching WSU and dreaming about where we would be right now if instead of Fox, Knowlton hired Smith. What could have been.
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Kyle Smith
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Last: 3 yr ago by KoreAmBear
Watching UCLA v. Villanova and wondering what world they are in compared to us.HKBear97! said:
Watching WSU and dreaming about where we would be right now if instead of Fox, Knowlton hired Smith. What could have been.
Yup. There were several of us here who thought Smith would have done well at Cal. Maybe Smith isn't well connected to Knowlton's favorite consulting firm.
BearSD said:
Yup. There were several of us here who thought Smith would have done well at Cal. Maybe Smith isn't well connected to Knowlton's favorite consulting firm.
Yeah, Kyle Smith is a good coach. I would have been happy if we hired him. I think Chun would have been a great AD hire for Cal too.
UCLA had students camping out in front of Pauley... we exist on a different athletic planet. What a shame.
Yep. And it wasn't that long ago when they were below .500 and played in an empty arena. Cronin nailed it.socaliganbear said:
UCLA had students camping out in front of Pauley... we exist on a different athletic planet. What a shame.
Smith is just one of many who would have been a superior choice.
Smith didn't want Cal's job.
He specifically went for the WSU job.
His wife is from Eastern Washington, (Lake Chelan) and they wanted to live there to be closer to family.
While some here don't want to believe it, other Pac-12 jobs are preferred over Cal for a variety of reasons; cost of living, ability to win and actually be successful, and not everybody thinks the Bay Area is the greatest.
Smith was not interested, and was never offered because of that.
He specifically went for the WSU job.
His wife is from Eastern Washington, (Lake Chelan) and they wanted to live there to be closer to family.
While some here don't want to believe it, other Pac-12 jobs are preferred over Cal for a variety of reasons; cost of living, ability to win and actually be successful, and not everybody thinks the Bay Area is the greatest.
Smith was not interested, and was never offered because of that.
Alkiadt said:
Smith was not interested, and was never offered because of that.
This sounds like a rationalization for not having asked. This is along the lines of "no one but Fox would take our $1.6 million per year" when we only interviewed two people.
Cal has a much better tradition than WSU, pays better and is better for recruiting. They lived in Manhattan for years and loved it. They loved San Francisco. Cal travels to WSU every season, there is a long off season and Washington is not that far.
You never make the shots you don't take. How difficult is it to ask?
Happy wife, happy life.
You can say they "loved" NY and SF, but the draw was being closer to her parents. I'll stick with my source.
Not saying Cal never asked. Of course there was an inquiry. But WSU was their first choice.
The Cal job is a terminal dead end. Ask Cuonzo. He could not get out of Berkeley fast enough. Even Mike Montgomery said (to me, directly) that it's not easy to win at Cal. Mike lost every kid he recruited to come to Cal to Stanford if a kid was accepted to Stanford. And no dedicated practice facility. The coaching fraternity knows this. All these things are used against Cal in recruiting. If you ask me, Smith was smart to not be interested. He'll do well at WSU. He will get kids in that he could not at Cal. He can coach basketball and be supported by his university to do it. That's a novel idea.
You can say they "loved" NY and SF, but the draw was being closer to her parents. I'll stick with my source.
Not saying Cal never asked. Of course there was an inquiry. But WSU was their first choice.
The Cal job is a terminal dead end. Ask Cuonzo. He could not get out of Berkeley fast enough. Even Mike Montgomery said (to me, directly) that it's not easy to win at Cal. Mike lost every kid he recruited to come to Cal to Stanford if a kid was accepted to Stanford. And no dedicated practice facility. The coaching fraternity knows this. All these things are used against Cal in recruiting. If you ask me, Smith was smart to not be interested. He'll do well at WSU. He will get kids in that he could not at Cal. He can coach basketball and be supported by his university to do it. That's a novel idea.
Alkiadt said:
Happy wife, happy life.
You can say they "loved" NY and SF, but the draw was being closer to her parents. I'll stick with my source.
Not saying Cal never asked. Of course there was an inquiry. But WSU was their first choice.
The Cal job is a terminal dead end. Ask Cuonzo. He could not get out of Berkeley fast enough. Even Mike Montgomery said (to me, directly) that it's not easy to win at Cal. Mike lost every kid he recruited to come to Cal to Stanford if a kid was accepted to Stanford. And no dedicated practice facility. The coaching fraternity knows this. All these things are used against Cal in recruiting. If you ask me, Smith was smart to not be interested. He'll do well at WSU. He will get kids in that he could not at Cal. He can coach basketball and be supported by his university to do it. That's a novel idea.
You are saying the search firm made an inquiry?
Jason Kidd publicly indicated his interest in the Cal job in the days after Jones was fired and before Fox was announced. Why was that not pursued?
The Cal job was not a "terminal dead end" for Martin, he got more pay at Missouri.
If Monty thought it was a "terminal dead end job" why did he push DeCuire for it? Because he hated him?
So maybe the Cal job would have been a "terminal dead end" for Kidd and he retired after 20 years of coaching here and multiple Final Fours? Could be worse.
Smith was hired 3 days before Fox was. That shipped had sailed. Smith was not pursuing the Cal job. They knew it.
Cuonzo got out because he knew he couldn't win at Cal. And yes he parlayed it into a huge payday at Missouri. He got out before the collapse. He had been denied a handful of high level recruits that could have gotten into any other public institution. He became more and more frustrated after he got here with Cal being Cal.
I know nothing of the Jason Kidd situation. But I personally doubt he was seriously interested. To me, it sounded good at the time from his own PR perspective. And…. there was never any clear answer on if the chancellor would even sign off on the fact that Jason does not have a degree. I'm still unclear on that one.
Cuonzo got out because he knew he couldn't win at Cal. And yes he parlayed it into a huge payday at Missouri. He got out before the collapse. He had been denied a handful of high level recruits that could have gotten into any other public institution. He became more and more frustrated after he got here with Cal being Cal.
I know nothing of the Jason Kidd situation. But I personally doubt he was seriously interested. To me, it sounded good at the time from his own PR perspective. And…. there was never any clear answer on if the chancellor would even sign off on the fact that Jason does not have a degree. I'm still unclear on that one.
Alkiadt said:
Smith was hired 3 days before Fox was. That shipped had sailed. Smith was not pursuing the Cal job. They knew it.
Cuonzo got out because he knew he couldn't win at Cal. And yes he parlayed it into a huge payday at Missouri. He got out before the collapse He had been denied a handful of high level recruits that could have gotten into any other public institution. He became more and more frustrated after he got here with Cal being Cal.
I know nothing of the Jason Kidd situation. But I personally doubt he was seriously interested. To me, it sounded good at the time from his own PR perspective. And…. there was never any clear answer on if the chancellor would even sign off on the fact that Jason does not have a degree. I'm still unclear on that one.
Why did Monty push DeCuire for a job he thought was "dead end terminal"?
The point about Smith is the WSU job was open long before the Cal job. Knowlton originally said Jones was coming back. Fox was hired quickly, but there was still an opening to pursue Smith. You and I both know that didn't happen. The bigger issue is you need to have the job open long enough to find out who is interested instead of assuming no one is and quickly hiring the first retread your search firm presents.
I said what I think the job is.
Monty didn't call it that.
C'mon dude.
I think there are multiple better opportunities within the league for established coaches who are in the market. But if you are an assistant looking for your first job it's obviously an opportunity that you'd want . Just ask Wyking who took it for obvious reasons. I'm not defending anything Knowlton has done either. I was for the hiring of DeCuire after Cuonzo left.
One league championship in 63 years (by Monty) says it all. It's hard to win here. And without the resources and support that other schools provide, well it's Ground Hog Day at Cal. Cal has to get lucky with a coach. They're not going to attract a lot of coaches many people think they should. That's my opinion.
Monty didn't call it that.
C'mon dude.
I think there are multiple better opportunities within the league for established coaches who are in the market. But if you are an assistant looking for your first job it's obviously an opportunity that you'd want . Just ask Wyking who took it for obvious reasons. I'm not defending anything Knowlton has done either. I was for the hiring of DeCuire after Cuonzo left.
One league championship in 63 years (by Monty) says it all. It's hard to win here. And without the resources and support that other schools provide, well it's Ground Hog Day at Cal. Cal has to get lucky with a coach. They're not going to attract a lot of coaches many people think they should. That's my opinion.
Let's get to the real reason Smith isn't at Cal now: On this very board, OaktownBear shot down his candidacy. Said his USF teams didn't win enough. Right there, it was over for Smith here. I even tried to explain how maybe the job he did at Columbia and USF was better than the record might indicate, but he said no, end of story. You can dig this up from the archives, but that's the way it came down, I swear. Nobody can win an argument with Oaktown Bear.
Smith maybe preferring life in the Palouse might be true, as well, I dunno. Icing on the cake.
Big C said:
Let's get to the real reason Smith isn't at Cal now: On this very board, OaktownBear shot down his candidacy. Said his USF teams didn't win enough. Right there, it was over for Smith here. I even tried to explain how maybe the job he did at Columbia and USF was better than the record might indicate, but he said no, end of story. You can dig this up from the archives, but that's the way it came down, I swear.
Him maybe preferring life in the Palouse might be true, as well, I dunno. Icing on the cake.
Well played.
Whatever happened to OTB? Seems to have disappeared... Search says there is no such user?Big C said:
Nobody can win an argument with Oaktown Bear.
I believe OTB has been on sabbatical for several months. He's done that before, so he will likely be back. If he has managed to not follow Cal and thus avoided the misery during this time, maybe he could write a how-to book. Since there aren't too many of us, it would likely have to be an e-book.
Alkiadt said:
Smith was hired 3 days before Fox was. That shipped had sailed. Smith was not pursuing the Cal job. They knew it.
Smith was announced at WSU on March 26th.
Wyking Jones was fired on March 24th.
Smith wasn't pursuing the Cal job because as far as the world knew, there was no Cal job opening. Knowlton had affirmed a week earlier that Jones would be back. That we got a late start and missed on having a shot at Smith and other candidates is 100% on Knowlton.
Then, after firing Jones on the 24th, Knowlton announces he"s hired Fox on the 29th, just 5 days later. Again, not leaving enough time for coaches who are not unemployed and signed up with the search firm to pursue the Cal opening. Why the rush? The season was over. The Tournaments were still being played. If after a few weeks of searching and being turned down by good coaches, we learned Fox was the only coach in the US who would accept our $1.6 million per year salary (sarc), then it was justified. Everything else is just CYA excuse-making.
calumnus said:Alkiadt said:
Smith was hired 3 days before Fox was. That shipped had sailed. Smith was not pursuing the Cal job. They knew it.
Smith was announced at WSU on March 26th.
Wyking Jones was fired on March 24th.
Smith wasn't pursuing the Cal job because as far as the world knew, there was no Cal job opening. Knowlton had affirmed a week earlier that Jones would be back. That we got a late start and missed on having a shot at Smith and other candidates is 100% on Knowlton.
Then, after firing Jones on the 24th, Knowlton announces he"s hired Fox on the 29th, just 5 days later. Again, not leaving enough time for coaches who are not unemployed and signed up with the search firm to pursue the Cal opening. Why the rush? The season was over. The Tournaments were still being played. If after a few weeks of searching and being turned down by good coaches, we learned Fox was the only coach in the US who would accept our $1.6 million per year salary (sarc), then it was justified. Everything else is just CYA excuse-making.
Hey, when you have the search firm's complete report in hand, no reason to hesitate. At that point, a leader moves forward (sarc).
Alkiadt said:
Cuonzo got out because he knew he couldn't win at Cal. And yes he parlayed it into a huge payday at Missouri. He got out before the collapse. He had been denied a handful of high level recruits that could have gotten into any other public institution. He became more and more frustrated after he got here with Cal being Cal..
Cuonzo may have been frustrated at Cal, but the reality is he did much better those last two seasons at Cal than he's done at Missouri to date. Was never a fan of the Cuonzo hire. Worst part was Cal actually being on the receiving end of buyout money for a change and we go and utterly screw it up with the Wyking hire. Cal's ineptitude knows no bounds.
HKBear97! said:Alkiadt said:
Cuonzo got out because he knew he couldn't win at Cal. And yes he parlayed it into a huge payday at Missouri. He got out before the collapse. He had been denied a handful of high level recruits that could have gotten into any other public institution. He became more and more frustrated after he got here with Cal being Cal..
Cuonzo may have been frustrated at Cal, but the reality is he did much better those last two seasons at Cal than he's done at Missouri to date. Was never a fan of the Cuonzo hire. Worst part was Cal actually being on the receiving end of buyout money for a change and we go and utterly screw it up with the Wyking hire. Cal's ineptitude knows no bounds.
I was thrilled when we got Cuonzo, stealing a hot coach from Tennessee in the SEC days after a Sweet 16 run? When have we EVER done that? Then in 2015 we bring in two 5 star players in a single class? We go undefeated at home and earn a 4 seed? Our highest since ever?
I was not a fan of Cuonzo's style of defense first, Purdue plodding basketball, NBA style ISOs, but with great talent, it works, much better than Fox, who does the same thing but can't get the talent to play for him.
In retrospect, DeCuire would have probably been a better hire, but he had never been a HC at that point. Cuonzo was clearly the logical choice at that time.
Two years later, hiring Jones was a gamble. In that situation it should have been a contract very favorable to Cal. No buyout if it does not work out.
I won't revisit the Fox hiring, I've said enough about that.
Washington State is 5-0 and looking good.
Good article from August
https://www.si.com/college/2021/08/23/wazzu-basketball-kyle-smith-moneyball
Good article from August
https://www.si.com/college/2021/08/23/wazzu-basketball-kyle-smith-moneyball
calumnus said:
Washington State is 5-0 and looking good.
Good article from August
https://www.si.com/college/2021/08/23/wazzu-basketball-kyle-smith-moneyball
Other Cal coaching candidate "alumni":
you mentioned Randy Bennett and St. Mary's off to a hot start including a win over Oregon
Our man Travis Decuire 4-2 at Montana including a W over our nemesis UC San Diego
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