Something that I wondered about last night. From the 7 minute to go point through the end, the Cal lead in most occasions was in the 6 to 8 point range. The teams traded baskets through the end. San Diego coach Scholl seemed willing to let his defense bring his team back. But this whole time his team had 6 team fouls. At about the 2 minute mark wouldn't it have made sense to foul Joel? Not hard to do, he was handling the ball a lot. That's 3 times (fouls 7,8,9) that they could have put Joel at the line for a one and one. Anybody else here thinking that?
Post Reply
1 of 1
Since we like to critique coaches on this site....
2,999 Views |
19 Replies |
Last: 3 yr ago by calumnus
Yes. I was hoping Fox would take him out of the game. He is making threes, which is a big plus. Free throwsstill bad. You have to be aware of it and substitute accordingly.RedlessWardrobe said:
Something that I wondered about last night. From the 7 minute to go point through the end, the Cal lead in most occasions was in the 6 to 8 point range. The teams traded baskets through the end. San Diego coach Scholl seemed willing to let his defense bring his team back. But this whole time his team had 6 team fouls. At about the 2 minute mark wouldn't it have made sense to foul Joel? Not hard to do, he was handling the ball a lot. That's 3 times (fouls 7,8,9) that they could have put Joel at the line for a one and one. Anybody else here thinking that?
Go Bears!
At that point in the game, I'm betting there is a lot of GUT involved in the coaching/management. The coach is balancing pros and cons of leaving in Brown: Excellent defense, plus handles, currently making baskets, instilling confidence in his starting PG against the risk of missing free throws if he is fouled or simply losing his shooting streak.
The flip side of taking him out is having a better free throw shooter at the end of the game against diminishing his confidence, disrupting the flow of the game, losing his on ball defense (which is VERY important for managing clock at end of game).
In my mind, you leave him in UNTIL he starts missing FTs AND the Toreros start coming back. But the impact on confidence is pretty big - so most coaches would be reluctant to do that.
The flip side of taking him out is having a better free throw shooter at the end of the game against diminishing his confidence, disrupting the flow of the game, losing his on ball defense (which is VERY important for managing clock at end of game).
In my mind, you leave him in UNTIL he starts missing FTs AND the Toreros start coming back. But the impact on confidence is pretty big - so most coaches would be reluctant to do that.
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
Got it. I may have been reacting more to OD's comment than the OP.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
I think they only tried the 'hack a shaq' once in the last couple minutes and Brown made the basket and converted the and 1. Regardless, the strategy is sound - since they were in striking range and out of foul trouble.
There are a few reasons the USD coach may not have done so, IMHO
1. He thought the current strategy was going to work and changing up strategy at the end can often misfire.
2. He tried to implement that strategy, but it didn't catch. It may seem counter intuitive, but sometimes (often) a coaches instructions during a timeout are not implemented as planned.
3. He may have felt that Brown's quick forays to the basket was actually helping his ability to manage clock.
Regardless, that is only speculation. I would have attempted to put Brown at the line as you suggested.
Well the other reason I brought this issue up was in the last 5 minutes the San Diego players looked gassed on defense. Shephard's late layup was a stroll in the park. It was becoming more evident that their chances of stopping Cal was shrinking. And again, they had SIX team fouls. That's three potential one and ones.BeachedBear said:Got it. I may have been reacting more to OD's comment than the OP.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
I think they only tried the 'hack a shaq' once in the last couple minutes and Brown made the basket and converted the and 1. Regardless, the strategy is sound - since they were in striking range and out of foul trouble.
There are a few reasons the USD coach may not have done so, IMHO
1. He thought the current strategy was going to work and changing up strategy at the end can often misfire.
2. He tried to implement that strategy, but it didn't catch. It may seem counter intuitive, but sometimes (often) a coaches instructions during a timeout are not implemented as planned.
3. He may have felt that Brown's quick forays to the basket was actually helping his ability to manage clock.
Regardless, that is only speculation. I would have attempted to put Brown at the line as you suggested.
And since this issue from Fox' perpective was brought up, I agree with the other posters. As long as you're one score ahead you have to leave Joel in the game.
RedlessWardrobe said:Well the other reason I brought this issue up was in the last 5 minutes the San Diego players looked gassed on defense. Shephard's late layup was a stroll in the park. It was becoming more evident that their chances of stopping Cal was shrinking. And again, they had SIX team fouls. That's three potential one and ones.BeachedBear said:Got it. I may have been reacting more to OD's comment than the OP.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
I think they only tried the 'hack a shaq' once in the last couple minutes and Brown made the basket and converted the and 1. Regardless, the strategy is sound - since they were in striking range and out of foul trouble.
There are a few reasons the USD coach may not have done so, IMHO
1. He thought the current strategy was going to work and changing up strategy at the end can often misfire.
2. He tried to implement that strategy, but it didn't catch. It may seem counter intuitive, but sometimes (often) a coaches instructions during a timeout are not implemented as planned.
3. He may have felt that Brown's quick forays to the basket was actually helping his ability to manage clock.
Regardless, that is only speculation. I would have attempted to put Brown at the line as you suggested.
And since this issue from Fox' perpective was brought up, I agree with the other posters. As long as you're one score ahead you have to leave Joel in the game.
Yeah, it would have made sense for USD to foul Joel, but Fox doesn't need to pull him unless they actually do (and maybe keep him in if he hits both freee throws). He can wait to respond, no need to fix what isn't broke.
I was shocked the other coach didn't foul Brown in the last 2 minutes. Brown was dribbling up court with maybe 1:30 to go and I'm for yelling for him to pass the damn ball because I was sure they would foul him and sure he would miss. Did the other coach not do his homework? Their fans should be ripping him a new ******* assuming they know anything about Brown's FT shooting.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
graguna said:I was shocked the other coach didn't foul Brown in the last 2 minutes. Brown was dribbling up court with maybe 1:30 to go and I'm for yelling for him to pass the damn ball because I was sure they would foul him and sure he would miss. Did the other coach not do his homework? Their fans should be ripping him a new ******* assuming they know anything about Brown's FT shooting.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
Of course, USD's Sam Scholl makes about 10% of what Mark Fox makes.
calumnus said:graguna said:I was shocked the other coach didn't foul Brown in the last 2 minutes. Brown was dribbling up court with maybe 1:30 to go and I'm for yelling for him to pass the damn ball because I was sure they would foul him and sure he would miss. Did the other coach not do his homework? Their fans should be ripping him a new ******* assuming they know anything about Brown's FT shooting.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
Of course, USD's Sam Scholl makes about 10% of what Mark Fox makes.
closer to 25%
graguna said:calumnus said:graguna said:I was shocked the other coach didn't foul Brown in the last 2 minutes. Brown was dribbling up court with maybe 1:30 to go and I'm for yelling for him to pass the damn ball because I was sure they would foul him and sure he would miss. Did the other coach not do his homework? Their fans should be ripping him a new ******* assuming they know anything about Brown's FT shooting.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
Of course, USD's Sam Scholl makes about 10% of what Mark Fox makes.
closer to 25%
Did he get a raise? I was looking at a 2019 database.
25% would make him one of the highest paid Big West coaches, and considering he was just recently promoted internally from a very low paid assistant seems strange. Pasternak at UCSB is making/made $357,488 (21% of Fox) and he had prior HC experience at New Orleans and was assoc. HC at Arizona.
DeCuire makes $180,000 at Montana (10% of Fox).
The only mid-major coach who makes as much as Fox is Mark Few at Gonzaga ($1,779,635), no one else is even close. Most are in the low to mid six figures.
$333,541calumnus said:graguna said:calumnus said:graguna said:I was shocked the other coach didn't foul Brown in the last 2 minutes. Brown was dribbling up court with maybe 1:30 to go and I'm for yelling for him to pass the damn ball because I was sure they would foul him and sure he would miss. Did the other coach not do his homework? Their fans should be ripping him a new ******* assuming they know anything about Brown's FT shooting.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
Of course, USD's Sam Scholl makes about 10% of what Mark Fox makes.
closer to 25%
Did he get a raise? I was looking at a 2019 database.
25% would make him one of the highest paid Big West coaches, and considering he was just recently promoted internally from a very low paid assistant seems strange. Pasternak at UCSB is making/made $357,488 (21% of Fox) and he had prior HC experience at New Orleans and was assoc. HC at Arizona.
DeCuire makes $180,000 at Montana (10% of Fox).
The only mid-major coach who makes as much as Fox is Mark Few at Gonzaga ($1,779,635), no one else is even close. Most are in the low to mid six figures.
graguna said:$333,541calumnus said:graguna said:calumnus said:graguna said:I was shocked the other coach didn't foul Brown in the last 2 minutes. Brown was dribbling up court with maybe 1:30 to go and I'm for yelling for him to pass the damn ball because I was sure they would foul him and sure he would miss. Did the other coach not do his homework? Their fans should be ripping him a new ******* assuming they know anything about Brown's FT shooting.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
Of course, USD's Sam Scholl makes about 10% of what Mark Fox makes.
closer to 25%
Did he get a raise? I was looking at a 2019 database.
25% would make him one of the highest paid Big West coaches, and considering he was just recently promoted internally from a very low paid assistant seems strange. Pasternak at UCSB is making/made $357,488 (21% of Fox) and he had prior HC experience at New Orleans and was assoc. HC at Arizona.
DeCuire makes $180,000 at Montana (10% of Fox).
The only mid-major coach who makes as much as Fox is Mark Few at Gonzaga ($1,779,635), no one else is even close. Most are in the low to mid six figures.
Mark Fox will make $1,900,000 this year including his retention bonus if he is still employed on Jan.1 (ie a month and a half from now). So Scholl makes18% of what Fox makes.
Whether Scholl makes a $1/year or 2million/year the point is either he didn't do his homework before Monday's game or was too clueless to try it, and if the whole scenario had been reversed - our opponent having a 50% ft shooting guard in the game, us having 6 team fouls, and Fox had ignored fouling him, there surely would have been multiple pages about it here.
RedlessWardrobe said:
Whether Scholl makes a $1/year or 2million/year the point is either he didn't do his homework before Monday's game or was too clueless to try it, and if the whole scenario had been reversed - our opponent having a 50% ft shooting guard in the game, us having 6 team fouls, and Fox had ignored fouling him, there surely would have been multiple pages about it here.
Agreed. And while $333,000 is not a lot compared to Fox's 7 figures. it is a lot for most people, especially for someone his age, and you expect something for that. You don't have to do complicated data analysis like Kyle Smith to see FT%.
That is also what having a budget for assistants is for.
I don't think we get that granular.RedlessWardrobe said:
Whether Scholl makes a $1/year or 2million/year the point is either he didn't do his homework before Monday's game or was too clueless to try it, and if the whole scenario had been reversed - our opponent having a 50% ft shooting guard in the game, us having 6 team fouls, and Fox had ignored fouling him, there surely would have been multiple pages about it here.
We're more concerned with the recruiting (which has gotten better but batting .000 for our targeted A plan recruits like Mahaney - and losing your best talent in Bradley), unimaginative offense and not so great D (especially defending the three) -- which leads to the overall bad to horrible record the last two years, and with the loss to UCSD at home, looking like more of the same this season.
you said 10 and I said 25, its 18 so i was closer. I win!!! woohoo!! yeah me!! I'm so cool.calumnus said:graguna said:$333,541calumnus said:graguna said:calumnus said:graguna said:I was shocked the other coach didn't foul Brown in the last 2 minutes. Brown was dribbling up court with maybe 1:30 to go and I'm for yelling for him to pass the damn ball because I was sure they would foul him and sure he would miss. Did the other coach not do his homework? Their fans should be ripping him a new ******* assuming they know anything about Brown's FT shooting.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
Of course, USD's Sam Scholl makes about 10% of what Mark Fox makes.
closer to 25%
Did he get a raise? I was looking at a 2019 database.
25% would make him one of the highest paid Big West coaches, and considering he was just recently promoted internally from a very low paid assistant seems strange. Pasternak at UCSB is making/made $357,488 (21% of Fox) and he had prior HC experience at New Orleans and was assoc. HC at Arizona.
DeCuire makes $180,000 at Montana (10% of Fox).
The only mid-major coach who makes as much as Fox is Mark Few at Gonzaga ($1,779,635), no one else is even close. Most are in the low to mid six figures.
Mark Fox will make $1,900,000 this year including his retention bonus if he is still employed on Jan.1 (ie a month and a half from now). So Scholl makes18% of what Fox makes.
Going to be very interesting to see how Mahaney pans out. Disclaimer - I have never seen him play (other than a couple of clips) and thus have no opinion. The staff was either holding a pretty firm upper lip in masking the lost recruit, or sincerely doubted their loss of his recruitment. General concern from the staff, was whether he would be tough enough to succeed (under full court ball pressure/strength etc required in the very competitive Pac 12 conf). They felt he was a "good player" but were not convinced, he would develop into a top point guard. The staff felt choosing a weaker conference, was an indication of a concern of facing tougher competition. One of their recruiting pitches to Mahaney, mentioned that if the NBA was the ultimate goal, playing in the Pac12 would give him the best chance of realizing that goal. The staff researched that over the past decade outside of Gonzaga, not one WCC player has made an NBA roster (at the time of his recruitment as Jock Landale recently made an roster). Yet conversely over the same time span, 30+- Pac12 players had made an NBA roster. Believe the comparison was across all positions vs just the guard position - though I don't remember if so. The staff also right or wrong, put more emphasis on athletic/long wings to recruit, than another pt guard - for this past recruiting class (only 2 slots, since Klonaras stayed on the roster). Rationale is that they still had 3 point guards on this roster and 2 for next season. Clearly next class will be pt guard focused.KoreAmBear said:I don't think we get that granular.RedlessWardrobe said:
Whether Scholl makes a $1/year or 2million/year the point is either he didn't do his homework before Monday's game or was too clueless to try it, and if the whole scenario had been reversed - our opponent having a 50% ft shooting guard in the game, us having 6 team fouls, and Fox had ignored fouling him, there surely would have been multiple pages about it here.
We're more concerned with the recruiting (which has gotten better but batting .000 for our targeted A plan recruits like Mahaney - and losing your best talent in Bradley), unimaginative offense and not so great D (especially defending the three) -- which leads to the overall bad to horrible record the last two years, and with the loss to UCSD at home, looking like more of the same this season.
I remember the last local PG that Cal passed on, who went to st mary's
whoops!
whoops!
I remember reading the same about Jordan Ford, who certainly turned out all right. And at this point I think we could really use a "good player" since I'm not aware of any top point guards lining up to come to Cal.4thGenCal said:
... General concern from the staff, was whether he would be tough enough to succeed (under full court ball pressure/strength etc required in the very competitive Pac 12 conf). They felt he was a "good player" but were not convinced, he would develop into a top point guard ...
graguna said:you said 10 and I said 25, its 18 so i was closer. I win!!! woohoo!! yeah me!! I'm so cool.calumnus said:graguna said:$333,541calumnus said:graguna said:calumnus said:graguna said:I was shocked the other coach didn't foul Brown in the last 2 minutes. Brown was dribbling up court with maybe 1:30 to go and I'm for yelling for him to pass the damn ball because I was sure they would foul him and sure he would miss. Did the other coach not do his homework? Their fans should be ripping him a new ******* assuming they know anything about Brown's FT shooting.RedlessWardrobe said:
Wow it never ends. I know this is a Cal board but my post really was asking for a critique on the other coach's decision, but the two responses I see are about Fox!
Of course, USD's Sam Scholl makes about 10% of what Mark Fox makes.
closer to 25%
Did he get a raise? I was looking at a 2019 database.
25% would make him one of the highest paid Big West coaches, and considering he was just recently promoted internally from a very low paid assistant seems strange. Pasternak at UCSB is making/made $357,488 (21% of Fox) and he had prior HC experience at New Orleans and was assoc. HC at Arizona.
DeCuire makes $180,000 at Montana (10% of Fox).
The only mid-major coach who makes as much as Fox is Mark Few at Gonzaga ($1,779,635), no one else is even close. Most are in the low to mid six figures.
Mark Fox will make $1,900,000 this year including his retention bonus if he is still employed on Jan.1 (ie a month and a half from now). So Scholl makes18% of what Fox makes.
I rounded up. It is actually 17.55% Almost exactly splitting the difference (17.5%) but yes you were closer, though by only 0.05% Still, you were closer so kudos and congrats, and congrats to Scholl for the big raise. $333,541 is great money for a coach in his first mid-major job.
Featured Stories
See All
Cal Football Weekly Tuesday Presser
by Jim McGill
Mendoza Named ACC Quarterback Of The Week
by Cal Athletics
Bears Slip By Sac State, 83-77
by Jim McGill