Southern Utah Wants a Do Over

6,928 Views | 86 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by BearSD
ClayK
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Has Knowlton commented? Have there been any consequences for the Cal employees who made this egregious and inexcusable error? (This a free throw. Nothing else is going on. Ball goes through net; point awarded.)

So maybe there's no reasonable recourse in terms of the outcome. How about an apology? An acknowledgement? A suspension for the designated official scorer who is ultimately responsible?

How about acting with a little class and respect for the game?
SBGold
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Is there such thing as a "no contest" result in a basketball game?

Cal fans are such candy a$$es$ sometimes
glutton
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ClayK said:

There should be consequences -- and Cal should agree to call the game "no contest."

And just because there were egregious errors in the past doesn't excuse this one, especially since the error was pointed out at the time and the scorers refused to look at the video. (And how can you not see a ball go through the basket? There are several scorers at the table.)

I also agree that Knowlton needs to make a statement. I'm guessing he won't.
That's just silly. A one-point error by the officials with several minutes left in the game is not a reason to change the outcome of the game. From what I understand, it would have been up to the referees to decide to review the video, I don't think that part was on the official scorer. If there were a mistake on the final possession or 2 of the game, and we won by a point, then Southern Utah might have a case. If their coaches knew that the score was incorrect, then they should have persisted with the officials when the mistake was made instead of complaining after they lost in double-OT.
glutton
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ClayK said:

Has Knowlton commented? Have there been any consequences for the Cal employees who made this egregious and inexcusable error? (This a free throw. Nothing else is going on. Ball goes through net; point awarded.)

So maybe there's no reasonable recourse in terms of the outcome. How about an apology? An acknowledgement? A suspension for the designated official scorer who is ultimately responsible?

How about acting with a little class and respect for the game?
The linked article states that Cal reached out to SUU, acknowledged the error, and apologized.
glutton
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SFCityBear said:

stu said:

ClayK said:

There should be consequences -- and Cal should agree to call the game "no contest."
Cal scorers made a big mistake. Pac-12 officials refused to correct it. SU got screwed. IMHO the right thing to do would be for Knowlton and Fox to agree that SU won in regulation. I'm sure SU would concur. No re-do.


All true. What I would like to see is Knowlton call a meeting with Fox, the Cal Staff, and the Cal players, and come to agreement over how to handle this. One of the things that sports, even big time college sports is supposed to do is help to mold the character of the young men and women who play these contests, to teach sportsmanship. And in this case, Cal has to man up and accept that SU won the game and publicly announce that to SU, their coach and team. We don't play by the rules of Al Davis "Just win, baby". We are Cal, and we should be bigger than that. We will still have the memory, that it was our best game of the season, and we need to put this behind us and move on.
You must be joking, @SFCityBear. A one-point mistake in the middle of the 2nd half shouldn't mean that the outcome of the game should be reversed. If that point had been counted correctly at the time, then the rest of the half may have played out completely differently, and we may still have ended up winning in overtime. SUU needs to accept the apology and get over it. If they knew that there was a mistake, then their coaches should have been more insistent AT THE TIME that the score be reviewed properly. Mistakes are made by officials all the time during games, just not usually simple scoring errors like this one.
HoopDreams
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Coach Monty used to always say "time and score"

coaches make changes in strategy and play calling in every game based on time and score
SFCityBear
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glutton said:

SFCityBear said:

stu said:

ClayK said:

There should be consequences -- and Cal should agree to call the game "no contest."
Cal scorers made a big mistake. Pac-12 officials refused to correct it. SU got screwed. IMHO the right thing to do would be for Knowlton and Fox to agree that SU won in regulation. I'm sure SU would concur. No re-do.


All true. What I would like to see is Knowlton call a meeting with Fox, the Cal Staff, and the Cal players, and come to agreement over how to handle this. One of the things that sports, even big time college sports is supposed to do is help to mold the character of the young men and women who play these contests, to teach sportsmanship. And in this case, Cal has to man up and accept that SU won the game and publicly announce that to SU, their coach and team. We don't play by the rules of Al Davis "Just win, baby". We are Cal, and we should be bigger than that. We will still have the memory, that it was our best game of the season, and we need to put this behind us and move on.
You're must be joking, @SFCityBear. A one-point mistake in the middle of the 2nd half shouldn't mean that the outcome of the game should be reversed. If that point had been counted correctly at the time, then the rest of the half may have played out completely differently, and we may still have ended up winning in overtime. SUU needs to accept the apology and get over it. If they knew that there was a mistake, then their coaches should have been more insistent AT THE TIME that the score be reviewed properly. Mistakes are made by officials all the time during games, just not usually simple scoring errors like this one.
No, I'm not joking. I try not to be a "woulda, shoulda, coulda" kind of guy. You sound like SUU is at fault here. I'm surprised you didn't say, "SUU should have played better, if they wanted to win this game." You are a Cal fan. I get it. That is terrific.

In this case, I'm a fan of amateur sports first, a fan of basketball second, and third, I'm a Cal fan.
SFCityBear
oskidunker
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In this case, I'm a fan of amateur sports first, a fan of basketball second, and third, I'm a Cal fan

Reverse for me, sorry.
Go Bears!
bearister
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Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
glutton
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SFCityBear said:

glutton said:

SFCityBear said:

stu said:

ClayK said:

There should be consequences -- and Cal should agree to call the game "no contest."
Cal scorers made a big mistake. Pac-12 officials refused to correct it. SU got screwed. IMHO the right thing to do would be for Knowlton and Fox to agree that SU won in regulation. I'm sure SU would concur. No re-do.


All true. What I would like to see is Knowlton call a meeting with Fox, the Cal Staff, and the Cal players, and come to agreement over how to handle this. One of the things that sports, even big time college sports is supposed to do is help to mold the character of the young men and women who play these contests, to teach sportsmanship. And in this case, Cal has to man up and accept that SU won the game and publicly announce that to SU, their coach and team. We don't play by the rules of Al Davis "Just win, baby". We are Cal, and we should be bigger than that. We will still have the memory, that it was our best game of the season, and we need to put this behind us and move on.
You're must be joking, @SFCityBear. A one-point mistake in the middle of the 2nd half shouldn't mean that the outcome of the game should be reversed. If that point had been counted correctly at the time, then the rest of the half may have played out completely differently, and we may still have ended up winning in overtime. SUU needs to accept the apology and get over it. If they knew that there was a mistake, then their coaches should have been more insistent AT THE TIME that the score be reviewed properly. Mistakes are made by officials all the time during games, just not usually simple scoring errors like this one.
No, I'm not joking. I try not to be a "woulda, shoulda, coulda" kind of guy. You sound like SUU is at fault here. I'm surprised you didn't say, "SUU should have played better, if they wanted to win this game." You are a Cal fan. I get it. That is terrific.

In this case, I'm a fan of amateur sports first, a fan of basketball second, and third, I'm a Cal fan.


Do you think the outcome of games should be reversed any time there's an acknowledged officiating mistake in a game that affects the score? It's ridiculous to assume that Cal would have lost the game if one additional point had been credited to SUU in the middle of the second half.
bearister
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Coach K caught on CCTV after being notified that Duke is forfeiting a game it won because a scoring error was made by Duke personnel during the game:

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
calumnus
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glutton said:

SFCityBear said:

glutton said:

SFCityBear said:

stu said:

ClayK said:

There should be consequences -- and Cal should agree to call the game "no contest."
Cal scorers made a big mistake. Pac-12 officials refused to correct it. SU got screwed. IMHO the right thing to do would be for Knowlton and Fox to agree that SU won in regulation. I'm sure SU would concur. No re-do.


All true. What I would like to see is Knowlton call a meeting with Fox, the Cal Staff, and the Cal players, and come to agreement over how to handle this. One of the things that sports, even big time college sports is supposed to do is help to mold the character of the young men and women who play these contests, to teach sportsmanship. And in this case, Cal has to man up and accept that SU won the game and publicly announce that to SU, their coach and team. We don't play by the rules of Al Davis "Just win, baby". We are Cal, and we should be bigger than that. We will still have the memory, that it was our best game of the season, and we need to put this behind us and move on.
You're must be joking, @SFCityBear. A one-point mistake in the middle of the 2nd half shouldn't mean that the outcome of the game should be reversed. If that point had been counted correctly at the time, then the rest of the half may have played out completely differently, and we may still have ended up winning in overtime. SUU needs to accept the apology and get over it. If they knew that there was a mistake, then their coaches should have been more insistent AT THE TIME that the score be reviewed properly. Mistakes are made by officials all the time during games, just not usually simple scoring errors like this one.
No, I'm not joking. I try not to be a "woulda, shoulda, coulda" kind of guy. You sound like SUU is at fault here. I'm surprised you didn't say, "SUU should have played better, if they wanted to win this game." You are a Cal fan. I get it. That is terrific.

In this case, I'm a fan of amateur sports first, a fan of basketball second, and third, I'm a Cal fan.


Do you think the outcome of games should be reversed any time there's an acknowledged officiating mistake in a game that affects the score? It's ridiculous to assume that Cal would have lost the game if one additional point had been credited to SUU in the middle of the second half.


No, I think the outcome of games should be determined by the number of baskets a team makes, with 3 points awarded for shots beyond the arc, two points inside the arc and 1 point for free throws.
stu
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calumnus said:

No, I think the outcome of games should be determined by the number of baskets a team makes, with 3 points awarded for shots beyond the arc, two points inside the arc and 1 point for free throws.
I agree, as long as all of them are counted correctly.
SFCityBear
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calumnus said:

glutton said:

SFCityBear said:

glutton said:

SFCityBear said:

stu said:

ClayK said:

There should be consequences -- and Cal should agree to call the game "no contest."
Cal scorers made a big mistake. Pac-12 officials refused to correct it. SU got screwed. IMHO the right thing to do would be for Knowlton and Fox to agree that SU won in regulation. I'm sure SU would concur. No re-do.


All true. What I would like to see is Knowlton call a meeting with Fox, the Cal Staff, and the Cal players, and come to agreement over how to handle this. One of the things that sports, even big time college sports is supposed to do is help to mold the character of the young men and women who play these contests, to teach sportsmanship. And in this case, Cal has to man up and accept that SU won the game and publicly announce that to SU, their coach and team. We don't play by the rules of Al Davis "Just win, baby". We are Cal, and we should be bigger than that. We will still have the memory, that it was our best game of the season, and we need to put this behind us and move on.
You're must be joking, @SFCityBear. A one-point mistake in the middle of the 2nd half shouldn't mean that the outcome of the game should be reversed. If that point had been counted correctly at the time, then the rest of the half may have played out completely differently, and we may still have ended up winning in overtime. SUU needs to accept the apology and get over it. If they knew that there was a mistake, then their coaches should have been more insistent AT THE TIME that the score be reviewed properly. Mistakes are made by officials all the time during games, just not usually simple scoring errors like this one.
No, I'm not joking. I try not to be a "woulda, shoulda, coulda" kind of guy. You sound like SUU is at fault here. I'm surprised you didn't say, "SUU should have played better, if they wanted to win this game." You are a Cal fan. I get it. That is terrific.

In this case, I'm a fan of amateur sports first, a fan of basketball second, and third, I'm a Cal fan.


Do you think the outcome of games should be reversed any time there's an acknowledged officiating mistake in a game that affects the score? It's ridiculous to assume that Cal would have lost the game if one additional point had been credited to SUU in the middle of the second half.


No, I think the outcome of games should be determined by the number of baskets a team makes, with 3 points awarded for shots beyond the arc, two points inside the arc and 1 point for free throws.
How about 1 point for dunks?
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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oskidunker said:


In this case, I'm a fan of amateur sports first, a fan of basketball second, and third, I'm a Cal fan

Reverse for me, sorry.
That's great. Nothing to be sorry about. We just have different opinions. If we all thought alike, there would be no need for a basketball forum.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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glutton said:

SFCityBear said:

glutton said:

SFCityBear said:

stu said:

ClayK said:

There should be consequences -- and Cal should agree to call the game "no contest."
Cal scorers made a big mistake. Pac-12 officials refused to correct it. SU got screwed. IMHO the right thing to do would be for Knowlton and Fox to agree that SU won in regulation. I'm sure SU would concur. No re-do.


All true. What I would like to see is Knowlton call a meeting with Fox, the Cal Staff, and the Cal players, and come to agreement over how to handle this. One of the things that sports, even big time college sports is supposed to do is help to mold the character of the young men and women who play these contests, to teach sportsmanship. And in this case, Cal has to man up and accept that SU won the game and publicly announce that to SU, their coach and team. We don't play by the rules of Al Davis "Just win, baby". We are Cal, and we should be bigger than that. We will still have the memory, that it was our best game of the season, and we need to put this behind us and move on.
You're must be joking, @SFCityBear. A one-point mistake in the middle of the 2nd half shouldn't mean that the outcome of the game should be reversed. If that point had been counted correctly at the time, then the rest of the half may have played out completely differently, and we may still have ended up winning in overtime. SUU needs to accept the apology and get over it. If they knew that there was a mistake, then their coaches should have been more insistent AT THE TIME that the score be reviewed properly. Mistakes are made by officials all the time during games, just not usually simple scoring errors like this one.
No, I'm not joking. I try not to be a "woulda, shoulda, coulda" kind of guy. You sound like SUU is at fault here. I'm surprised you didn't say, "SUU should have played better, if they wanted to win this game." You are a Cal fan. I get it. That is terrific.

In this case, I'm a fan of amateur sports first, a fan of basketball second, and third, I'm a Cal fan.


Do you think the outcome of games should be reversed any time there's an acknowledged officiating mistake in a game that affects the score? It's ridiculous to assume that Cal would have lost the game if one additional point had been credited to SUU in the middle of the second half.
As to your question, that's a non-sequitur, irrelevant to the issue. The officials officiating a game work for the conference and are paid by the conference. The scorekeeper in this case worked for one team, Cal, either as a volunteer or a paid employee. If he was a paid employee, then Cal paid him to score this game. Can you see how this looks to the sports public generally?

As to what is ridiculous, who is assuming that Cal would have lost the game if one additional point was credited to SUU in the middle of the 2nd half? Isn't it equally ridiculous to assume that if the free throw was recorded, that Cal would have stepped up their game a bit to score another point to send the game into overtime, or score 2 or more points to win the game in regulation? It is only one point, and no matter when it happens, in the middle, the beginning, or the end of a game, it is up there on the arena scoreboard for all to see. In a game that later gets close, one measly free throw can affect one coach's defensive strategy and tactics, and the other coach's offensive strategy and tactics. And at the end of a tight game, it can affect the decisions that players themselves make on the floor. That Cal scorekeeper really screwed up.

What actually happened was a point was taken away from SUU, whose player skillfully and honestly scored a free throw during the game. The Cal scorekeeper either failed to notice the free throw had been made, or he decided to help Cal a wee bit, and not do his job faithfully and honestly by not recording the 1 point for SUU. In either case, Cal does not look good, and I feel the right thing to is acknowledge the mistake, and take some step or steps to mitigate it. The ball is in Cal's court, not SUU's. SUU is not responsible for anything here, Cal is.
SFCityBear
glutton
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SFCityBear said:

glutton said:

SFCityBear said:

glutton said:

SFCityBear said:

stu said:

ClayK said:

There should be consequences -- and Cal should agree to call the game "no contest."
Cal scorers made a big mistake. Pac-12 officials refused to correct it. SU got screwed. IMHO the right thing to do would be for Knowlton and Fox to agree that SU won in regulation. I'm sure SU would concur. No re-do.


All true. What I would like to see is Knowlton call a meeting with Fox, the Cal Staff, and the Cal players, and come to agreement over how to handle this. One of the things that sports, even big time college sports is supposed to do is help to mold the character of the young men and women who play these contests, to teach sportsmanship. And in this case, Cal has to man up and accept that SU won the game and publicly announce that to SU, their coach and team. We don't play by the rules of Al Davis "Just win, baby". We are Cal, and we should be bigger than that. We will still have the memory, that it was our best game of the season, and we need to put this behind us and move on.
You're must be joking, @SFCityBear. A one-point mistake in the middle of the 2nd half shouldn't mean that the outcome of the game should be reversed. If that point had been counted correctly at the time, then the rest of the half may have played out completely differently, and we may still have ended up winning in overtime. SUU needs to accept the apology and get over it. If they knew that there was a mistake, then their coaches should have been more insistent AT THE TIME that the score be reviewed properly. Mistakes are made by officials all the time during games, just not usually simple scoring errors like this one.
No, I'm not joking. I try not to be a "woulda, shoulda, coulda" kind of guy. You sound like SUU is at fault here. I'm surprised you didn't say, "SUU should have played better, if they wanted to win this game." You are a Cal fan. I get it. That is terrific.

In this case, I'm a fan of amateur sports first, a fan of basketball second, and third, I'm a Cal fan.


Do you think the outcome of games should be reversed any time there's an acknowledged officiating mistake in a game that affects the score? It's ridiculous to assume that Cal would have lost the game if one additional point had been credited to SUU in the middle of the second half.
As to your question, that's a non-sequitur, irrelevant to the issue. The officials officiating a game work for the conference and are paid by the conference. The scorekeeper in this case worked for one team, Cal, either as a volunteer or a paid employee. If he was a paid employee, then Cal paid him to score this game. Can you see how this looks to the sports public generally?

As to what is ridiculous, who is assuming that Cal would have lost the game if one additional point was credited to SUU in the middle of the 2nd half? Isn't it equally ridiculous to assume that if the free throw was recorded, that Cal would have stepped up their game a bit to score another point to send the game into overtime, or score 2 or more points to win the game in regulation? It is only one point, and no matter when it happens, in the middle, the beginning, or the end of a game, it is up there on the arena scoreboard for all to see. In a game that later gets close, one measly free throw can affect one coach's defensive strategy and tactics, and the other coach's offensive strategy and tactics. And at the end of a tight game, it can affect the decisions that players themselves make on the floor. That Cal scorekeeper really screwed up.

What actually happened was a point was taken away from SUU, whose player skillfully and honestly scored a free throw during the game. The Cal scorekeeper either failed to notice the free throw had been made, or he decided to help Cal a wee bit, and not do his job faithfully and honestly by not recording the 1 point for SUU. In either case, Cal does not look good, and I feel the right thing to is acknowledge the mistake, and take some step or steps to mitigate it. The ball is in Cal's court, not SUU's. SUU is not responsible for anything here, Cal is.


As far as I understand the situation, while the original mistake was by our official scorer, it was then up to the referees whether to review the video, and they didn't choose to do that.
BearSD
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glutton said:




As far as I understand the situation, while the original mistake was by our official scorer, it was then up to the referees whether to review the video, and they didn't choose to do that.
Correct. The officiating crew, and not the scorekeeper, is ultimately responsible.

IIRC there was a game in the NBA last season in which the officials wrongly ruled a shot in the last few seconds a 2-point goal instead of a 3-pointer. As a result of that mistake, the game went into overtime instead of Team X winning in regulation, and Team X lost in overtime. They got an apology from the league office - they didn't get a do-over, or a no-contest, or a reversal of the outcome of the game. And that's how any college league or the NCAA would handle it as well.
 
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