Same!
Matt Bradley
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86 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by 4thGenCal
love to hear it, because i also heard a version
Not sure as he's just a hard working player just getting better. But it's not about how pragmatic Fox's approach is. It's not a good look in that regard. I will say he doesn't do it a lot but we have seen it at times.SFCityBear said:Did it work with Celestine?KoreAmBear said:Basically Bradley must have felt it was his responsibility (yes volume shooting could actually be in the interest of the team depending on which team) to carry the load. Fox probably encouraged him to do it to a certain extent. But a disconnect happened between them, and I think we saw that in the @UCLA game last year when he didn't play in the second half at all, then Fox called him a "good player" at the post-game presser as if he wasn't the best player on the team. I think Fox is a decent enough coach with low upside, but he really is rough with his approach to kids. The other day v. Idaho State I saw him demonstrably ripping Jalen C a new one after he initiated a charge going 1 v 1 out of the flow of the offense. Yes, it was a poor play, but was still kind of cringy in this day and age as fewer coaches do that sort of thing (unless you are a legend like Huggy Bear).calumnus said:CALiforniALUM said:PtownBear1 said:
Is this team better than least season's team? Certainly appears so.
Is the team better than it would have been this year with Bradley? Impossible to know with all the other variables, but I highly doubt it, no matter how you want to spin the "they're playing better team ball" narrative.
Last year, he was the only potential all conference player. This year, we would likely have two with Kelly.
Kind of hard to say we would have two all conference players this year without actually having Bradley around. My theory is that with Bradley we wouldn't nearly see the same level of play from Kelly. Bradley sucked the air out of the gym. It wasn't pleasant to even watch last year's team play because it was hero ball every time on offense. This year we actually look like a real team where as many as 2-3 players could put the ball in the net each time down the floor. The product is much better to watch even if the wins and losses aren't all that much better.
Bradley didn't play that way under Wyking (he was 4th in scoring?) and he doesn't play that way at San Diego State. It was Fox's strategy to milk the clock and have Bradley play hero ball. It was the same at Georgia with Caldwell-Pope making SEC POY while Georgia had a losing conference record (and got demolished by Cal in a preseason tournament). We often saw the same with Braun and Cuonzo. All three are of the Midwestern, defense first, plodding style. Braun and especially Cuonzo are just better recruiters.
BeastBear69 said:
If you guys want the full story about what happened with Bradley and Fox / the team I will tell.
I have a composite version I've pieced together, to compare it to.
I agree with you on the look. When Monty shoved Crabbe in front of Allen's parents and on national TV, I felt it was the beginning of the end for him, and that he would retire from coaching soon. I support coaches who ask for obedience from their players, but if you are going to discipline a player nowadays, you should do it behind closed doors, and never in public. In public, you can embarrass the player, and strike a blow at his image and self-confidence. Pete Newell was a master at controlling his players. He insisted that his players do exactly as he told them to do. Players have told me that one reason they obeyed Pete was that they were afraid of what he might do to them if they disobeyed. Still, they loved him to a fault, and would walk through a wall for him. I went to many of his practices, and I never heard him raise his voice or touch a player even once. And I saw most or all of his home games at Cal, and never saw him raise his voice or touch a player at a game either.KoreAmBear said:Not sure as he's just a hard working player just getting better. But it's not about how pragmatic Fox's approach is. It's not a good look in that regard. I will say he doesn't do it a lot but we have seen it at times.SFCityBear said:Did it work with Celestine?KoreAmBear said:Basically Bradley must have felt it was his responsibility (yes volume shooting could actually be in the interest of the team depending on which team) to carry the load. Fox probably encouraged him to do it to a certain extent. But a disconnect happened between them, and I think we saw that in the @UCLA game last year when he didn't play in the second half at all, then Fox called him a "good player" at the post-game presser as if he wasn't the best player on the team. I think Fox is a decent enough coach with low upside, but he really is rough with his approach to kids. The other day v. Idaho State I saw him demonstrably ripping Jalen C a new one after he initiated a charge going 1 v 1 out of the flow of the offense. Yes, it was a poor play, but was still kind of cringy in this day and age as fewer coaches do that sort of thing (unless you are a legend like Huggy Bear).calumnus said:CALiforniALUM said:PtownBear1 said:
Is this team better than least season's team? Certainly appears so.
Is the team better than it would have been this year with Bradley? Impossible to know with all the other variables, but I highly doubt it, no matter how you want to spin the "they're playing better team ball" narrative.
Last year, he was the only potential all conference player. This year, we would likely have two with Kelly.
Kind of hard to say we would have two all conference players this year without actually having Bradley around. My theory is that with Bradley we wouldn't nearly see the same level of play from Kelly. Bradley sucked the air out of the gym. It wasn't pleasant to even watch last year's team play because it was hero ball every time on offense. This year we actually look like a real team where as many as 2-3 players could put the ball in the net each time down the floor. The product is much better to watch even if the wins and losses aren't all that much better.
Bradley didn't play that way under Wyking (he was 4th in scoring?) and he doesn't play that way at San Diego State. It was Fox's strategy to milk the clock and have Bradley play hero ball. It was the same at Georgia with Caldwell-Pope making SEC POY while Georgia had a losing conference record (and got demolished by Cal in a preseason tournament). We often saw the same with Braun and Cuonzo. All three are of the Midwestern, defense first, plodding style. Braun and especially Cuonzo are just better recruiters.
Listening to Andre Kelly's interview after the last game sure showed a lot of love for his teammates and the support and love that Fox has given him. The players seem to be responding, and their teamwork shows it is working. They are looking better. But if Fox continues to discipline his players in public, the rapport with the players that he has built will likely fall apart, as will the team. What you must do as a coach, if you feel you have no choice but to scold a player at a game, is don't let the player sulk, but put him right back in the game, showing you haven't lost confidence in him, you just wanted to get his attention. That way, the player usually will not lose confidence in himself, and continue to play hard for you. At least Fox seems to be doing that, but it would be a better look if he would leave the scolding to practices or the locker room.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear said:I agree with you on the look. When Monty shoved Crabbe in front of Allen's parents and on national TV, I felt it was the beginning of the end for him, and that he would retire from coaching soon. I support coaches who ask for obedience from their players, but if you are going to discipline a player nowadays, you should do it behind closed doors, and never in public. In public, you can embarrass the player, and strike a blow at his image and self-confidence. Pete Newell was a master at controlling his players. He insisted that his players do exactly as he told them to do. Players have told me that one reason they obeyed Pete was that they were afraid of what he might do to them if they disobeyed. Still, they loved him to a fault, and would walk through a wall for him. I went to many of his practices, and I never heard him raise his voice or touch a player even once. And I saw most or all of his home games at Cal, and never saw him raise his voice or touch a player at a game either.KoreAmBear said:Not sure as he's just a hard working player just getting better. But it's not about how pragmatic Fox's approach is. It's not a good look in that regard. I will say he doesn't do it a lot but we have seen it at times.SFCityBear said:Did it work with Celestine?KoreAmBear said:Basically Bradley must have felt it was his responsibility (yes volume shooting could actually be in the interest of the team depending on which team) to carry the load. Fox probably encouraged him to do it to a certain extent. But a disconnect happened between them, and I think we saw that in the @UCLA game last year when he didn't play in the second half at all, then Fox called him a "good player" at the post-game presser as if he wasn't the best player on the team. I think Fox is a decent enough coach with low upside, but he really is rough with his approach to kids. The other day v. Idaho State I saw him demonstrably ripping Jalen C a new one after he initiated a charge going 1 v 1 out of the flow of the offense. Yes, it was a poor play, but was still kind of cringy in this day and age as fewer coaches do that sort of thing (unless you are a legend like Huggy Bear).calumnus said:CALiforniALUM said:PtownBear1 said:
Is this team better than least season's team? Certainly appears so.
Is the team better than it would have been this year with Bradley? Impossible to know with all the other variables, but I highly doubt it, no matter how you want to spin the "they're playing better team ball" narrative.
Last year, he was the only potential all conference player. This year, we would likely have two with Kelly.
Kind of hard to say we would have two all conference players this year without actually having Bradley around. My theory is that with Bradley we wouldn't nearly see the same level of play from Kelly. Bradley sucked the air out of the gym. It wasn't pleasant to even watch last year's team play because it was hero ball every time on offense. This year we actually look like a real team where as many as 2-3 players could put the ball in the net each time down the floor. The product is much better to watch even if the wins and losses aren't all that much better.
Bradley didn't play that way under Wyking (he was 4th in scoring?) and he doesn't play that way at San Diego State. It was Fox's strategy to milk the clock and have Bradley play hero ball. It was the same at Georgia with Caldwell-Pope making SEC POY while Georgia had a losing conference record (and got demolished by Cal in a preseason tournament). We often saw the same with Braun and Cuonzo. All three are of the Midwestern, defense first, plodding style. Braun and especially Cuonzo are just better recruiters.
Listening to Andre Kelly's interview after the last game sure showed a lot of love for his teammates and the support and love that Fox has given him. The players seem to be responding, and their teamwork shows it is working. They are looking better. But if Fox continues to discipline his players in public, the rapport with the players that he has built will likely fall apart, as will the team. What you must do as a coach, if you feel you have no choice but to scold a player at a game, is don't let the player sulk, but put him right back in the game, showing you haven't lost confidence in him, you just wanted to get his attention. That way, the player usually will not lose confidence in himself, and continue to play hard for you. At least Fox seems to be doing that, but it would be a better look if he would leave the scolding to practices or the locker room.
It is part of being an effective communicator and teacher. The player did something different than what you would have wanted them to do. How do you get that information to them so they embrace it and apply it in the future?
You've mentioned that you were a fan of my dad's, here is a book he wrote on the subject:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5475384-coach-sense
the right ratio
9 doses of love
1 dose of "opportunity"
9 doses of love
1 dose of "opportunity"
I want to preface this by saying I think the blame for Matt leaving the program falls 50/50 on his and Mark Fox's shoulders. This board is very pro Matt Bradley and like to put all of the blame on Fox, however both had equal parts to do with Bradley's departure.
First off, here is where I see the disconnect between what most people think they know and what reality is. Bradley is somewhat of a mess emotionally. Has been this way his whole career. This is something Fox knew. While on game day it appears like he has an immense passion for winning (which he does) behind closed doors (practice, weight room, etc.) he beats to his own drum, often not listening to coaching staff and teammates.
The story is as old as time. This is a case of two men who are both stubborn and stuck in their own ways. Fox, with his old style of coaching - the in your face yell at you "tough love" style, and Matt's inability to listen to direction and control his emotions. Fox and the rest of the staff felt like they had to walk on egg shells around Matt in order to keep him happy. Any time Fox challenged Bradley - as Fox did with every other player, he took it personal and threw a fit. This happened a handful of times throughout the year. Bradley was kicked out of practice over 5 or so times throughout the season only to be welcomed back and start the next game. Not enough was done by Fox to discipline him.
The UCLA game was the only time an occurrence like this happened in public. Something happened between the two in the locker room at half and thats why he was benched. But this was not out of the ordinary. Nobody on the team knew what they were getting from Matt emotionally on a day to day basis.
Here's my conclusion: As a coach and the man with more life experience, could Fox have done more to help Bradley? Maybe. Did he treat Bradley differently than his other teammates? Yes he was more lenient, allowing him to get away with more. But was Bradley unable and unwilling to change for the greater good of the team? Yes. Maybe Bradley was going through some life stuff, maybe he needed someone to talk to you never know I'm not going to be the one to speculate. From everything I've heard he wasn't a good teammate last year. This isn't to say he isn't a good person because he is a great kid.
I'm willing to bet Fox didn't try hard to convince Matt to stay. Best for both sides to part ways. The Bears are looking better, having more fun, and winning some games. Hopefully Matt has a good year at SDSU and everyone is happy.
What do you guys think?
First off, here is where I see the disconnect between what most people think they know and what reality is. Bradley is somewhat of a mess emotionally. Has been this way his whole career. This is something Fox knew. While on game day it appears like he has an immense passion for winning (which he does) behind closed doors (practice, weight room, etc.) he beats to his own drum, often not listening to coaching staff and teammates.
The story is as old as time. This is a case of two men who are both stubborn and stuck in their own ways. Fox, with his old style of coaching - the in your face yell at you "tough love" style, and Matt's inability to listen to direction and control his emotions. Fox and the rest of the staff felt like they had to walk on egg shells around Matt in order to keep him happy. Any time Fox challenged Bradley - as Fox did with every other player, he took it personal and threw a fit. This happened a handful of times throughout the year. Bradley was kicked out of practice over 5 or so times throughout the season only to be welcomed back and start the next game. Not enough was done by Fox to discipline him.
The UCLA game was the only time an occurrence like this happened in public. Something happened between the two in the locker room at half and thats why he was benched. But this was not out of the ordinary. Nobody on the team knew what they were getting from Matt emotionally on a day to day basis.
Here's my conclusion: As a coach and the man with more life experience, could Fox have done more to help Bradley? Maybe. Did he treat Bradley differently than his other teammates? Yes he was more lenient, allowing him to get away with more. But was Bradley unable and unwilling to change for the greater good of the team? Yes. Maybe Bradley was going through some life stuff, maybe he needed someone to talk to you never know I'm not going to be the one to speculate. From everything I've heard he wasn't a good teammate last year. This isn't to say he isn't a good person because he is a great kid.
I'm willing to bet Fox didn't try hard to convince Matt to stay. Best for both sides to part ways. The Bears are looking better, having more fun, and winning some games. Hopefully Matt has a good year at SDSU and everyone is happy.
What do you guys think?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
BeastBear69 said:
I want to preface this by saying I think the blame for Matt leaving the program falls 50/50 on his and Mark Fox's shoulders. This board is very pro Matt Bradley and like to put all of the blame on Fox, however both had equal parts to do with Bradley's departure.
First off, here is where I see the disconnect between what most people think they know and what reality is. Bradley is somewhat of a mess emotionally. Has been this way his whole career. This is something Fox knew. While on game day it appears like he has an immense passion for winning (which he does) behind closed doors (practice, weight room, etc.) he beats to his own drum, often not listening to coaching staff and teammates.
The story is as old as time. This is a case of two men who are both stubborn and stuck in their own ways. Fox, with his old style of coaching - the in your face yell at you "tough love" style, and Matt's inability to listen to direction and control his emotions. Fox and the rest of the staff felt like they had to walk on egg shells around Matt in order to keep him happy. Any time Fox challenged Bradley - as Fox did with every other player, he took it personal and threw a fit. This happened a handful of times throughout the year. Bradley was kicked out of practice over 5 or so times throughout the season only to be welcomed back and start the next game. Not enough was done by Fox to discipline him.
The UCLA game was the only time an occurrence like this happened in public. Something happened between the two in the locker room at half and thats why he was benched. But this was not out of the ordinary. Nobody on the team knew what they were getting from Matt emotionally on a day to day basis.
Here's my conclusion: As a coach and the man with more life experience, could Fox have done more to help Bradley? Maybe. Did he treat Bradley differently than his other teammates? Yes he was more lenient, allowing him to get away with more. But was Bradley unable and unwilling to change for the greater good of the team? Yes. Maybe Bradley was going through some life stuff, maybe he needed someone to talk to you never know I'm not going to be the one to speculate. From everything I've heard he wasn't a good teammate last year. This isn't to say he isn't a good person because he is a great kid.
I'm willing to bet Fox didn't try hard to convince Matt to stay. Best for both sides to part ways. The Bears are looking better, having more fun, and winning some games. Hopefully Matt has a good year at SDSU and everyone is happy.
What do you guys think?
First, I agree you cannot have different policies for your best players.
However, I overwhelmingly think it is a style of coaching (or management) that is not going to be very successful with UC Berkeley students, especially talented African American UC Berkeley students, in the 21st century. It is not attractive to top recruits. It drives players to the portal.
Campanelli treated KJ like that. He treated Jason Kidd like that until the players revolted. Now they would have just all entered the portal.
If my boss acted like that I would quit. I am sure everyone here would too. Why we think it is acceptable is beyond me. I really feel bad for Bradley. He showed a lot of loyalty to Fox.
Have to chime in to correct some parts of the message though yes, some parts are spot on. I do have insight into the players thoughts given the interaction with them. Matt did not have any run ins with Wyking Jones/staff - each referred to the other as "my guy". Matt is hyper competitive and losing did wear him down and yes he did have altercations on at least 4 times (nothing overly destructive other than yelling/cussing/some challenging to one assistant coach and 2 specific players. I was a reference for him relative to his new housing situation at SDS. So yes I have a bit of a bias toward Matt, as my interactions with him were always respectful and enlighting. He would look you in the eye, be thoughtful and appreciative. While He is growing up emotionally and not without fault, he gave full effort toward the program and was an asset to the program. 2020 was a very difficult year on many levels and having a black Dad and white Mom during riots was one more issue to deal with (not an excuse just reality). Having an occasional outburst happens constantly at the D1 level in Basketball as its an aggressive demanding sport. The Staff are the adults and are being paid, thus they bear ultimate responsibility to teach, lead and motivate and solve disrupting situations. Matt was not "a mess emotionally" and did not "throw a fit, take it personal, everytime He was challenged by Coach Fox. Could have he handled criticism better? Yes, and He didn't handle practice trash talking well when directed toward him. "Wasn't a good teammate last year" Not what several players said privately to me (and yes there were several he rubbed the wrong way as well). The key issue that put him at odds with the staff and 100% Matt's fault, was his insertion into the portal w/o first notifying the staff of that decision. Matt had earlier in the season, told the Coach that he was coming back for his last season. So it was a shock to the staff (Matt's Dad convinced him to put his name in as it could be withdrawn as well) when they first learned by checking the portal. Totally spot on that Coach Fox did not try hard to convince Matt to come back. I am 100% convinced that if Coach Fox had "re recruited" Matt, He would be on the team this season. Matt turned down SC because he felt (rightly so) that it would be wrong to compete aganist his former team. Matt knew his limitations and specifically wanted to become a better leader, and improve his defensive play. He needed to be convinced that those goals would be obtained by staying for his final season. Very tough emotional situation/decision for both parties and yes the team is playing better this season without Matt. However that is in large part, due to having a full off season to strengthen and practice, one year older upperclassmen and overall better depth. I wish Matt had stayed as his fearlessness, toughness and ability to create/take the tough shot when needed is missed.BeastBear69 said:
I want to preface this by saying I think the blame for Matt leaving the program falls 50/50 on his and Mark Fox's shoulders. This board is very pro Matt Bradley and like to put all of the blame on Fox, however both had equal parts to do with Bradley's departure.
First off, here is where I see the disconnect between what most people think they know and what reality is. Bradley is somewhat of a mess emotionally. Has been this way his whole career. This is something Fox knew. While on game day it appears like he has an immense passion for winning (which he does) behind closed doors (practice, weight room, etc.) he beats to his own drum, often not listening to coaching staff and teammates.
The story is as old as time. This is a case of two men who are both stubborn and stuck in their own ways. Fox, with his old style of coaching - the in your face yell at you "tough love" style, and Matt's inability to listen to direction and control his emotions. Fox and the rest of the staff felt like they had to walk on egg shells around Matt in order to keep him happy. Any time Fox challenged Bradley - as Fox did with every other player, he took it personal and threw a fit. This happened a handful of times throughout the year. Bradley was kicked out of practice over 5 or so times throughout the season only to be welcomed back and start the next game. Not enough was done by Fox to discipline him.
The UCLA game was the only time an occurrence like this happened in public. Something happened between the two in the locker room at half and thats why he was benched. But this was not out of the ordinary. Nobody on the team knew what they were getting from Matt emotionally on a day to day basis.
Here's my conclusion: As a coach and the man with more life experience, could Fox have done more to help Bradley? Maybe. Did he treat Bradley differently than his other teammates? Yes he was more lenient, allowing him to get away with more. But was Bradley unable and unwilling to change for the greater good of the team? Yes. Maybe Bradley was going through some life stuff, maybe he needed someone to talk to you never know I'm not going to be the one to speculate. From everything I've heard he wasn't a good teammate last year. This isn't to say he isn't a good person because he is a great kid.
I'm willing to bet Fox didn't try hard to convince Matt to stay. Best for both sides to part ways. The Bears are looking better, having more fun, and winning some games. Hopefully Matt has a good year at SDSU and everyone is happy.
What do you guys think?
Sorry, they are better without him.4thGenCal said:Have to chime in to correct some parts of the message though yes, some parts are spot on. I do have insight into the players thoughts given the interaction with them. Matt did not have any run ins with Wyking Jones/staff - each referred to the other as "my guy". Matt is hyper competitive and losing did wear him down and yes he did have altercations on at least 4 times (nothing overly destructive other than yelling/cussing/some challenging to one assistant coach and 2 specific players. I was a reference for him relative to his new housing situation at SDS. So yes I have a bit of a bias toward Matt, as my interactions with him were always respectful and enlighting. He would look you in the eye, be thoughtful and appreciative. While He is growing up emotionally and not without fault, he gave full effort toward the program and was an asset to the program. 2020 was a very difficult year on many levels and having a black Dad and white Mom during riots was one more issue to deal with (not an excuse just reality). Having an occasional outburst happens constantly at the D1 level in Basketball as its an aggressive demanding sport. The Staff are the adults and are being paid, thus they bear ultimate responsibility to teach, lead and motivate and solve disrupting situations. Matt was not "a mess emotionally" and did not "throw a fit, take it personal, everytime He was challenged by Coach Fox. Could have he handled criticism better? Yes, and He didn't handle practice trash talking well when directed toward him. "Wasn't a good teammate last year" Not what several players said privately to me (and yes there were several he rubbed the wrong way as well). The key issue that put him at odds with the staff and 100% Matt's fault, was his insertion into the portal w/o first notifying the staff of that decision. Matt had earlier in the season, told the Coach that he was coming back for his last season. So it was a shock to the staff (Matt's Dad convinced him to put his name in as it could be withdrawn as well) when they first learned by checking the portal. Totally spot on that Coach Fox did not try hard to convince Matt to come back. I am 100% convinced that if Coach Fox had "re recruited" Matt, He would be on the team this season. Matt turned down SC because he felt (rightly so) that it would be wrong to compete aganist his former team. Matt knew his limitations and specifically wanted to become a better leader, and improve his defensive play. He needed to be convinced that those goals would be obtained by staying for his final season. Very tough emotional situation/decision for both parties and yes the team is playing better this season without Matt. However that is in large part, due to having a full off season to strengthen and practice, one year older upperclassmen and overall better depth. I wish Matt had stayed as his fearlessness, toughness and ability to create/take the tough shot when needed is missed.BeastBear69 said:
I want to preface this by saying I think the blame for Matt leaving the program falls 50/50 on his and Mark Fox's shoulders. This board is very pro Matt Bradley and like to put all of the blame on Fox, however both had equal parts to do with Bradley's departure.
First off, here is where I see the disconnect between what most people think they know and what reality is. Bradley is somewhat of a mess emotionally. Has been this way his whole career. This is something Fox knew. While on game day it appears like he has an immense passion for winning (which he does) behind closed doors (practice, weight room, etc.) he beats to his own drum, often not listening to coaching staff and teammates.
The story is as old as time. This is a case of two men who are both stubborn and stuck in their own ways. Fox, with his old style of coaching - the in your face yell at you "tough love" style, and Matt's inability to listen to direction and control his emotions. Fox and the rest of the staff felt like they had to walk on egg shells around Matt in order to keep him happy. Any time Fox challenged Bradley - as Fox did with every other player, he took it personal and threw a fit. This happened a handful of times throughout the year. Bradley was kicked out of practice over 5 or so times throughout the season only to be welcomed back and start the next game. Not enough was done by Fox to discipline him.
The UCLA game was the only time an occurrence like this happened in public. Something happened between the two in the locker room at half and thats why he was benched. But this was not out of the ordinary. Nobody on the team knew what they were getting from Matt emotionally on a day to day basis.
Here's my conclusion: As a coach and the man with more life experience, could Fox have done more to help Bradley? Maybe. Did he treat Bradley differently than his other teammates? Yes he was more lenient, allowing him to get away with more. But was Bradley unable and unwilling to change for the greater good of the team? Yes. Maybe Bradley was going through some life stuff, maybe he needed someone to talk to you never know I'm not going to be the one to speculate. From everything I've heard he wasn't a good teammate last year. This isn't to say he isn't a good person because he is a great kid.
I'm willing to bet Fox didn't try hard to convince Matt to stay. Best for both sides to part ways. The Bears are looking better, having more fun, and winning some games. Hopefully Matt has a good year at SDSU and everyone is happy.
What do you guys think?
I see a lot of overlap between the two views. I also have followed the team very closely throughout his time here, and have read most of the comments from people who have some vision into the situation.
My conclusion follows more closely to 4thGen's version.
Matt was our franchise player, and the coach needed to find a way to make it work for Matt and the team. As others have pointed out many times, Fox's old-school coaching approach and personality is probably not compatible with someone like Matt, and many other players in the year 2000s. And if he was Michael Jordan then the coach absolutely needs to make it work (Jordan was notorious for being tough on coaches and other players)
Everyone seems to agree that Matt is a good person, and the fact he transferred to San Diego State vs a Pac12 team showed me he still has loyalty to his Cal team. I wish him all the success.
Are we better than last year? Looks like we might be, but I'd like to wait to conclude that after a dozen Pac12 games, but no matter what, our current team + Bradley would be better.
My conclusion follows more closely to 4thGen's version.
Matt was our franchise player, and the coach needed to find a way to make it work for Matt and the team. As others have pointed out many times, Fox's old-school coaching approach and personality is probably not compatible with someone like Matt, and many other players in the year 2000s. And if he was Michael Jordan then the coach absolutely needs to make it work (Jordan was notorious for being tough on coaches and other players)
Everyone seems to agree that Matt is a good person, and the fact he transferred to San Diego State vs a Pac12 team showed me he still has loyalty to his Cal team. I wish him all the success.
Are we better than last year? Looks like we might be, but I'd like to wait to conclude that after a dozen Pac12 games, but no matter what, our current team + Bradley would be better.
I don't think we can say this just yet. The last few games have been good, but that blowout win by Florida still sticks in my craw. Let's wait until we see how this team competes against AZ and UCLA, and the rest of the conference.Alkiadt said:Sorry, they are better without him.4thGenCal said:Have to chime in to correct some parts of the message though yes, some parts are spot on. I do have insight into the players thoughts given the interaction with them. Matt did not have any run ins with Wyking Jones/staff - each referred to the other as "my guy". Matt is hyper competitive and losing did wear him down and yes he did have altercations on at least 4 times (nothing overly destructive other than yelling/cussing/some challenging to one assistant coach and 2 specific players. I was a reference for him relative to his new housing situation at SDS. So yes I have a bit of a bias toward Matt, as my interactions with him were always respectful and enlighting. He would look you in the eye, be thoughtful and appreciative. While He is growing up emotionally and not without fault, he gave full effort toward the program and was an asset to the program. 2020 was a very difficult year on many levels and having a black Dad and white Mom during riots was one more issue to deal with (not an excuse just reality). Having an occasional outburst happens constantly at the D1 level in Basketball as its an aggressive demanding sport. The Staff are the adults and are being paid, thus they bear ultimate responsibility to teach, lead and motivate and solve disrupting situations. Matt was not "a mess emotionally" and did not "throw a fit, take it personal, everytime He was challenged by Coach Fox. Could have he handled criticism better? Yes, and He didn't handle practice trash talking well when directed toward him. "Wasn't a good teammate last year" Not what several players said privately to me (and yes there were several he rubbed the wrong way as well). The key issue that put him at odds with the staff and 100% Matt's fault, was his insertion into the portal w/o first notifying the staff of that decision. Matt had earlier in the season, told the Coach that he was coming back for his last season. So it was a shock to the staff (Matt's Dad convinced him to put his name in as it could be withdrawn as well) when they first learned by checking the portal. Totally spot on that Coach Fox did not try hard to convince Matt to come back. I am 100% convinced that if Coach Fox had "re recruited" Matt, He would be on the team this season. Matt turned down SC because he felt (rightly so) that it would be wrong to compete aganist his former team. Matt knew his limitations and specifically wanted to become a better leader, and improve his defensive play. He needed to be convinced that those goals would be obtained by staying for his final season. Very tough emotional situation/decision for both parties and yes the team is playing better this season without Matt. However that is in large part, due to having a full off season to strengthen and practice, one year older upperclassmen and overall better depth. I wish Matt had stayed as his fearlessness, toughness and ability to create/take the tough shot when needed is missed.BeastBear69 said:
I want to preface this by saying I think the blame for Matt leaving the program falls 50/50 on his and Mark Fox's shoulders. This board is very pro Matt Bradley and like to put all of the blame on Fox, however both had equal parts to do with Bradley's departure.
First off, here is where I see the disconnect between what most people think they know and what reality is. Bradley is somewhat of a mess emotionally. Has been this way his whole career. This is something Fox knew. While on game day it appears like he has an immense passion for winning (which he does) behind closed doors (practice, weight room, etc.) he beats to his own drum, often not listening to coaching staff and teammates.
The story is as old as time. This is a case of two men who are both stubborn and stuck in their own ways. Fox, with his old style of coaching - the in your face yell at you "tough love" style, and Matt's inability to listen to direction and control his emotions. Fox and the rest of the staff felt like they had to walk on egg shells around Matt in order to keep him happy. Any time Fox challenged Bradley - as Fox did with every other player, he took it personal and threw a fit. This happened a handful of times throughout the year. Bradley was kicked out of practice over 5 or so times throughout the season only to be welcomed back and start the next game. Not enough was done by Fox to discipline him.
The UCLA game was the only time an occurrence like this happened in public. Something happened between the two in the locker room at half and thats why he was benched. But this was not out of the ordinary. Nobody on the team knew what they were getting from Matt emotionally on a day to day basis.
Here's my conclusion: As a coach and the man with more life experience, could Fox have done more to help Bradley? Maybe. Did he treat Bradley differently than his other teammates? Yes he was more lenient, allowing him to get away with more. But was Bradley unable and unwilling to change for the greater good of the team? Yes. Maybe Bradley was going through some life stuff, maybe he needed someone to talk to you never know I'm not going to be the one to speculate. From everything I've heard he wasn't a good teammate last year. This isn't to say he isn't a good person because he is a great kid.
I'm willing to bet Fox didn't try hard to convince Matt to stay. Best for both sides to part ways. The Bears are looking better, having more fun, and winning some games. Hopefully Matt has a good year at SDSU and everyone is happy.
What do you guys think?
SFCityBear
SFCityBear said:I don't think we can say this just yet. The last few games have been good, but that blowout win by Florida still sticks in my craw. Let's wait until we see how this team competes against AZ and UCLA, and the rest of the conference.Alkiadt said:Sorry, they are better without him.4thGenCal said:Have to chime in to correct some parts of the message though yes, some parts are spot on. I do have insight into the players thoughts given the interaction with them. Matt did not have any run ins with Wyking Jones/staff - each referred to the other as "my guy". Matt is hyper competitive and losing did wear him down and yes he did have altercations on at least 4 times (nothing overly destructive other than yelling/cussing/some challenging to one assistant coach and 2 specific players. I was a reference for him relative to his new housing situation at SDS. So yes I have a bit of a bias toward Matt, as my interactions with him were always respectful and enlighting. He would look you in the eye, be thoughtful and appreciative. While He is growing up emotionally and not without fault, he gave full effort toward the program and was an asset to the program. 2020 was a very difficult year on many levels and having a black Dad and white Mom during riots was one more issue to deal with (not an excuse just reality). Having an occasional outburst happens constantly at the D1 level in Basketball as its an aggressive demanding sport. The Staff are the adults and are being paid, thus they bear ultimate responsibility to teach, lead and motivate and solve disrupting situations. Matt was not "a mess emotionally" and did not "throw a fit, take it personal, everytime He was challenged by Coach Fox. Could have he handled criticism better? Yes, and He didn't handle practice trash talking well when directed toward him. "Wasn't a good teammate last year" Not what several players said privately to me (and yes there were several he rubbed the wrong way as well). The key issue that put him at odds with the staff and 100% Matt's fault, was his insertion into the portal w/o first notifying the staff of that decision. Matt had earlier in the season, told the Coach that he was coming back for his last season. So it was a shock to the staff (Matt's Dad convinced him to put his name in as it could be withdrawn as well) when they first learned by checking the portal. Totally spot on that Coach Fox did not try hard to convince Matt to come back. I am 100% convinced that if Coach Fox had "re recruited" Matt, He would be on the team this season. Matt turned down SC because he felt (rightly so) that it would be wrong to compete aganist his former team. Matt knew his limitations and specifically wanted to become a better leader, and improve his defensive play. He needed to be convinced that those goals would be obtained by staying for his final season. Very tough emotional situation/decision for both parties and yes the team is playing better this season without Matt. However that is in large part, due to having a full off season to strengthen and practice, one year older upperclassmen and overall better depth. I wish Matt had stayed as his fearlessness, toughness and ability to create/take the tough shot when needed is missed.BeastBear69 said:
I want to preface this by saying I think the blame for Matt leaving the program falls 50/50 on his and Mark Fox's shoulders. This board is very pro Matt Bradley and like to put all of the blame on Fox, however both had equal parts to do with Bradley's departure.
First off, here is where I see the disconnect between what most people think they know and what reality is. Bradley is somewhat of a mess emotionally. Has been this way his whole career. This is something Fox knew. While on game day it appears like he has an immense passion for winning (which he does) behind closed doors (practice, weight room, etc.) he beats to his own drum, often not listening to coaching staff and teammates.
The story is as old as time. This is a case of two men who are both stubborn and stuck in their own ways. Fox, with his old style of coaching - the in your face yell at you "tough love" style, and Matt's inability to listen to direction and control his emotions. Fox and the rest of the staff felt like they had to walk on egg shells around Matt in order to keep him happy. Any time Fox challenged Bradley - as Fox did with every other player, he took it personal and threw a fit. This happened a handful of times throughout the year. Bradley was kicked out of practice over 5 or so times throughout the season only to be welcomed back and start the next game. Not enough was done by Fox to discipline him.
The UCLA game was the only time an occurrence like this happened in public. Something happened between the two in the locker room at half and thats why he was benched. But this was not out of the ordinary. Nobody on the team knew what they were getting from Matt emotionally on a day to day basis.
Here's my conclusion: As a coach and the man with more life experience, could Fox have done more to help Bradley? Maybe. Did he treat Bradley differently than his other teammates? Yes he was more lenient, allowing him to get away with more. But was Bradley unable and unwilling to change for the greater good of the team? Yes. Maybe Bradley was going through some life stuff, maybe he needed someone to talk to you never know I'm not going to be the one to speculate. From everything I've heard he wasn't a good teammate last year. This isn't to say he isn't a good person because he is a great kid.
I'm willing to bet Fox didn't try hard to convince Matt to stay. Best for both sides to part ways. The Bears are looking better, having more fun, and winning some games. Hopefully Matt has a good year at SDSU and everyone is happy.
What do you guys think?
Yes. We have no wins against good teams. We lost to UC San Diego. The most important win by far was against OSU, but they are playing terribly. We cannot pronounce ourselves "better" than last year without more evidence. And the question of whether this team would be better if you added Bradley can never be determined, but I firmly believe the answer should be obvious, adding an all conference player to the team would make us better.
Just wondering. If Fox is as bad as claimed, why didn't everybody else head for the portal? Looks mostly like a bad fit with one player?
Matt Bradley vs ANZAC in Phoenix at 7 pm tonight. Aztecs are 3 point dogs.
Aztecs head to Phoenix to face 10-2 Saint Mary's in 'rsum game' - The San Diego Union-Tribune
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/story/2021-12-16/san-diego-state-sdsu-aztecs-basketball-phoenix-saint-marys-gaels-jerry-colangelo-classic-footprint-center
Aztecs head to Phoenix to face 10-2 Saint Mary's in 'rsum game' - The San Diego Union-Tribune
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/story/2021-12-16/san-diego-state-sdsu-aztecs-basketball-phoenix-saint-marys-gaels-jerry-colangelo-classic-footprint-center
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I am just a fan, not an "insider" like those posting here that have contacts and personal knowledge of the interactions of the team. And reading the posts here all seem not to be over the top and reasonably objective.
As I have mentioned before, all things being equal, I still believe that the new "transfer portal" rules in occasions like these many times dictates a players' final decision. If Matt was in the "gray area" of deciding whether to transfer, the fact that SDSU having a greater probability of making the Big Dance, and the fact that he could play for them immediately may have been the final influence on his decision.
If this scenario had occurred 10 years ago most probably Matt would have stayed.
As I have mentioned before, all things being equal, I still believe that the new "transfer portal" rules in occasions like these many times dictates a players' final decision. If Matt was in the "gray area" of deciding whether to transfer, the fact that SDSU having a greater probability of making the Big Dance, and the fact that he could play for them immediately may have been the final influence on his decision.
If this scenario had occurred 10 years ago most probably Matt would have stayed.
Agree 100% College bball is changing (both for the better and the worse, IMHO). My take is that Matt transferred 90% due to opportunity (that would have been much harder 10 years ago) and maybe 10% situationally (Cal being a losing program with very little immediate upside other than experience improvement).RedlessWardrobe said:
I am just a fan, not an "insider" like those posting here that have contacts and personal knowledge of the interactions of the team. And reading the posts here all seem not to be over the top and reasonably objective.
As I have mentioned before, all things being equal, I still believe that the new "transfer portal" rules in occasions like these many times dictates a players' final decision. If Matt was in the "gray area" of deciding whether to transfer, the fact that SDSU having a greater probability of making the Big Dance, and the fact that he could play for them immediately may have been the final influence on his decision.
If this scenario had occurred 10 years ago most probably Matt would have stayed.
Oh yeah and 200% due to not having a dedicated practice facility as nice as SDSUs
I count 6 players who headed for the portal. But I think it's possible to explain that as 6 bad fits since all 6 were recruited by previous coaches. So far none of Fox's own recruits have left, it looks like they knew what they were getting into.annarborbear said:
Just wondering. If Fox is as bad as claimed, why didn't everybody else head for the portal? Looks mostly like a bad fit with one player?
Good stuff from BB69 -- it makes sense.bearister said:
Assuming what you say is true, I wouldn't care if he was Michael Jordan, I wouldn't want him on my team.
Uh Bearister -- I would take MJ even if he kicked dogs.
KoreAmBear said:Good stuff from BB69 -- it makes sense.bearister said:
Assuming what you say is true, I wouldn't care if he was Michael Jordan, I wouldn't want him on my team.
Uh Bearister -- I would take MJ even if he kicked dogs.
The whole time I was watching his ESPN documentary I had the following fantasy:
After being berated and humiliated by MJ during practice, the target teammate (who is also a skilled fighter in my imaginary scenario), takes MJ aside and says:
"Mr. Jordan, I make 3 promises to you right now:
1. I will always treat you with the utmost courtesy and respect;
2. I will always give 100% effort; and
3. If you ever disrespect and belittle me again in front of the team, I will mop the court with you baseline to baseline and I don't care if it ends my NBA career.*
*I was always a huge Bill Cartwright fan. MJ's well catalogued mistreatment of Bill made me dislike MJ, and that documentary did nothing but add more fuel to my negative opinion of him. For those who say you can't be great without being an a$$h@le, I say, See Steph Curry.
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stu said:I count 6 players who headed for the portal. But I think it's possible to explain that as 6 bad fits since all 6 were recruited by previous coaches. So far none of Fox's own recruits have left, it looks like they knew what they were getting into.annarborbear said:
Just wondering. If Fox is as bad as claimed, why didn't everybody else head for the portal? Looks mostly like a bad fit with one player?
I think players who are less skilled and knowledgeable in basketball, maybe somewhat new to the game, know they don't have a shot at the NBA and know a Cal degree is valuable for their future and do appreciate the opportunity are more willing to just follow orders and not make waves.
Kids who have been playing since they were little, have played for good high school and AAU programs and coaches, were ranked in the Top 100 and believe the NBA is a possibility, have more opinions and ideas about how they/the team should be playing. They value the degree less and don't appreciate being shouted down and insulted by a guy who played a supporting role for Gardner City JC and Eastern New Mexico. I won't mention the racial component of it, but anyone who believes that the prospect of getting yelled at to work harder by a middle aged white man who is making $millions off your free labor is not a factor for 18 year old African American kids growing up in Oakland or Los Angeles (or Hawaii) in 2021 is just not paying attention.
It just cannot be all about the coach, what the coach wants, he can yell, but you can't talk back, his way or the highway. Because kids who know they have value will just hit the highway and because word travels, most won't come in the first place. Even if we spend $50 million for a dedicated practice facility.
However, a team full of hardworking, mostly international or children of immigrant, kids who follow the coach's orders, play hard defense and know they are at Cal to get their degree, learn some basketball against better competition, and are grateful for the opportunity has both a floor and a ceiling. We can beat up on lower level teams and can be a tough out at home in conference. However, getting back to the NCAA tournament is unlikely.
bearister said:
Matt Bradley vs ANZAC in Phoenix at 7 pm tonight. Aztecs are 3 point dogs.
Aztecs head to Phoenix to face 10-2 Saint Mary's in 'rsum game' - The San Diego Union-Tribune
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/story/2021-12-16/san-diego-state-sdsu-aztecs-basketball-phoenix-saint-marys-gaels-jerry-colangelo-classic-footprint-center
San Diego State vs. Saint Mary's - Game Summary - December 17, 2021 - ESPN
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401371209
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Like the data and viewpoints from you/basketball background. I respectively say that "middle aged white coaches" can be valued/listened to over black coaches by the American born black players. Depends on the person, the knowledge and teaching/communication abilities. Specifically I have asked that very question to at least 8 prominent players/starters at Cal over the past 5 seasons and 6 out of 8 prefered white coaches(each had both white and black coaches throughout their young career). I have often wondered that specific preference issue as well. The common theme was that many black coaches tend to be harsher on black players, because of upbringing/commonalities, acquired communication methods etc. May seem contrary to being able to relate better due to common backgrounds/first hand awareness of obstacles facing the black youth, but often solid proven white coaches, can and do relate well to the black player. This is simply becaue they can exhibit consistent standards for each player and communicate respectfully. Are there examples of denigrating white coaches? Sure, but the players do relate well to the best communicating coach regardless of the "black vs white" coach. One other point about "free labor" we can agree to disagree on, is the value the players bring the athletic programs in general and it can be huge no question about that. However the players do receive free tuition, books, housing(including utilities/cleaning), food (all week), tutoring as needed, plus receive food credit card for weekend extra meals and a $550 additional stipend every month. They also have the unique opportunity to listen to impactful speakers throughout the year on life lessons, financial matters and preparation for life after basketball. I was asked to be part of a series of such speakers for a previous coach and had a specific topic to discuss to the team. I state these points to point out, that the player does receive significant opportunities for being an excellent player/scholarship recipient and whom is devoting 25-35 hours/week for this sport. Hopefully they take advantage of the benefits offered to them and develop their craft for post university days, for those that pusue that path.calumnus said:stu said:I count 6 players who headed for the portal. But I think it's possible to explain that as 6 bad fits since all 6 were recruited by previous coaches. So far none of Fox's own recruits have left, it looks like they knew what they were getting into.annarborbear said:
Just wondering. If Fox is as bad as claimed, why didn't everybody else head for the portal? Looks mostly like a bad fit with one player?
I think players who are less skilled and knowledgeable in basketball, maybe somewhat new to the game, know they don't have a shot at the NBA and know a Cal degree is valuable for their future and do appreciate the opportunity are more willing to just follow orders and not make waves.
Kids who have been playing since they were little, have played for good high school and AAU programs and coaches, were ranked in the Top 100 and believe the NBA is a possibility, have more opinions and ideas about how they/the team should be playing. They value the degree less and don't appreciate being shouted down and insulted by a guy who played a supporting role for Gardner City JC and Eastern New Mexico. I won't mention the racial component of it, but anyone who believes that the prospect of getting yelled at to work harder by a middle aged white man who is making $millions off your free labor is not a factor for 18 year old African American kids growing up in Oakland or Los Angeles (or Hawaii) in 2021 is just not paying attention.
It just cannot be all about the coach, what the coach wants, he can yell, but you can't talk back, his way or the highway. Because kids who know they have value will just hit the highway and because word travels, most won't come in the first place. Even if we spend $50 million for a dedicated practice facility.
However, a team full of hardworking, mostly international or children of immigrant, kids who follow the coach's orders, play hard defense and know they are at Cal to get their degree, learn some basketball against better competition, and are grateful for the opportunity has both a floor and a ceiling. We can beat up on lower level teams and can be a tough out at home in conference. However, getting back to the NCAA tournament is unlikely.
Your bigger point on whether Cal can get back to the NCAA tournament with this staff, is a valid point and definitely going to be a big challenge. I am grudginly impressed eith the progress Coach Fox and his staff are making thus far this season.
bearister said:bearister said:
Matt Bradley vs ANZAC in Phoenix at 7 pm tonight. Aztecs are 3 point dogs.
Aztecs head to Phoenix to face 10-2 Saint Mary's in 'rsum game' - The San Diego Union-Tribune
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/story/2021-12-16/san-diego-state-sdsu-aztecs-basketball-phoenix-saint-marys-gaels-jerry-colangelo-classic-footprint-center
San Diego State vs. Saint Mary's - Game Summary - December 17, 2021 - ESPN
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401371209
Matt and Co cover by 13. Gaels go down. Matt 14 pts
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4thGenCal said:Like the data and viewpoints from you/basketball background. I respectively say that "middle aged white coaches" can be valued/listened to over black coaches by the American born black players. Depends on the person, the knowledge and teaching/communication abilities. Specifically I have asked that very question to at least 8 prominent players/starters at Cal over the past 5 seasons and 6 out of 8 prefered white coaches(each had both white and black coaches throughout their young career). I have often wondered that specific preference issue as well. The common theme was that many black coaches tend to be harsher on black players, because of upbringing/commonalities, acquired communication methods etc. May seem contrary to being able to relate better due to common backgrounds/first hand awareness of obstacles facing the black youth, but often solid proven white coaches, can and do relate well to the black player. This is simply becaue they can exhibit consistent standards for each player and communicate respectfully. Are there examples of denigrating white coaches? Sure, but the players do relate well to the best communicating coach regardless of the "black vs white" coach. One other point about "free labor" we can agree to disagree on, is the value the players bring the athletic programs in general and it can be huge no question about that. However the players do receive free tuition, books, housing(including utilities/cleaning), food (all week), tutoring as needed, plus receive food credit card for weekend extra meals and a $550 additional stipend every month. They also have the unique opportunity to listen to impactful speakers throughout the year on life lessons, financial matters and preparation for life after basketball. I was asked to be part of a series of such speakers for a previous coach and had a specific topic to discuss to the team. I state these points to point out, that the player does receive significant opportunities for being an excellent player/scholarship recipient and whom is devoting 25-35 hours/week for this sport. Hopefully they take advantage of the benefits offered to them and develop their craft for post university days, for those that pusue that path.calumnus said:stu said:I count 6 players who headed for the portal. But I think it's possible to explain that as 6 bad fits since all 6 were recruited by previous coaches. So far none of Fox's own recruits have left, it looks like they knew what they were getting into.annarborbear said:
Just wondering. If Fox is as bad as claimed, why didn't everybody else head for the portal? Looks mostly like a bad fit with one player?
I think players who are less skilled and knowledgeable in basketball, maybe somewhat new to the game, know they don't have a shot at the NBA and know a Cal degree is valuable for their future and do appreciate the opportunity are more willing to just follow orders and not make waves.
Kids who have been playing since they were little, have played for good high school and AAU programs and coaches, were ranked in the Top 100 and believe the NBA is a possibility, have more opinions and ideas about how they/the team should be playing. They value the degree less and don't appreciate being shouted down and insulted by a guy who played a supporting role for Gardner City JC and Eastern New Mexico. I won't mention the racial component of it, but anyone who believes that the prospect of getting yelled at to work harder by a middle aged white man who is making $millions off your free labor is not a factor for 18 year old African American kids growing up in Oakland or Los Angeles (or Hawaii) in 2021 is just not paying attention.
It just cannot be all about the coach, what the coach wants, he can yell, but you can't talk back, his way or the highway. Because kids who know they have value will just hit the highway and because word travels, most won't come in the first place. Even if we spend $50 million for a dedicated practice facility.
However, a team full of hardworking, mostly international or children of immigrant, kids who follow the coach's orders, play hard defense and know they are at Cal to get their degree, learn some basketball against better competition, and are grateful for the opportunity has both a floor and a ceiling. We can beat up on lower level teams and can be a tough out at home in conference. However, getting back to the NCAA tournament is unlikely.
Your bigger point on whether Cal can get back to the NCAA tournament with this staff, is a valid point and definitely going to be a big challenge. I am grudginly impressed eith the progress Coach Fox and his staff are making thus far this season.
I liked Alajiki from his video and his interviews. Good find. The guys coming in next year look good too.
If the guys he brought in are OK with his authoritarian style then that removes my biggest concern, which is for the athletes themselves.
If we get over .500 in conference with Fox I will be very pleasantly surprised. If we make the NCAA Tournament I will fall out of my chair. If we make it to the second weekend I will eat crow.
Matt did score 14 points, but was a very inefficient 5-14 and 0-3, with only 2 rebounds, 2 assists and 3 TOsbearister said:bearister said:bearister said:
Matt Bradley vs ANZAC in Phoenix at 7 pm tonight. Aztecs are 3 point dogs.
Aztecs head to Phoenix to face 10-2 Saint Mary's in 'rsum game' - The San Diego Union-Tribune
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/story/2021-12-16/san-diego-state-sdsu-aztecs-basketball-phoenix-saint-marys-gaels-jerry-colangelo-classic-footprint-center
San Diego State vs. Saint Mary's - Game Summary - December 17, 2021 - ESPN
https://www.espn.com/m-1ns-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401371209
Matt and Co cover by 13. Gaels go down. Matt 14 pts
BUT he played 36 minutes, tied for the most on his team
That tells you everything you need to know about Bradley at SDSU
IMHO Bradley's time at Cal is ancient history. I have nothing against him and hope he does well at SDSU and beyond.
And BTW I have nothing against players who transfer TO Cal.
And BTW I have nothing against players who transfer TO Cal.
KoreAmBear said:Basically Bradley must have felt it was his responsibility (yes volume shooting could actually be in the interest of the team depending on which team) to carry the load. Fox probably encouraged him to do it to a certain extent. But a disconnect happened between them, and I think we saw that in the @UCLA game last year when he didn't play in the second half at all, then Fox called him a "good player" at the post-game presser as if he wasn't the best player on the team. I think Fox is a decent enough coach with low upside, but he really is rough with his approach to kids. The other day v. Idaho State I saw him demonstrably ripping Jalen C a new one after he initiated a charge going 1 v 1 out of the flow of the offense. Yes, it was a poor play, but was still kind of cringy in this day and age as fewer coaches do that sort of thing (unless you are a legend like Huggy Bear).calumnus said:CALiforniALUM said:PtownBear1 said:
Is this team better than least season's team? Certainly appears so.
Is the team better than it would have been this year with Bradley? Impossible to know with all the other variables, but I highly doubt it, no matter how you want to spin the "they're playing better team ball" narrative.
Last year, he was the only potential all conference player. This year, we would likely have two with Kelly.
Kind of hard to say we would have two all conference players this year without actually having Bradley around. My theory is that with Bradley we wouldn't nearly see the same level of play from Kelly. Bradley sucked the air out of the gym. It wasn't pleasant to even watch last year's team play because it was hero ball every time on offense. This year we actually look like a real team where as many as 2-3 players could put the ball in the net each time down the floor. The product is much better to watch even if the wins and losses aren't all that much better.
Bradley didn't play that way under Wyking (he was 4th in scoring?) and he doesn't play that way at San Diego State. It was Fox's strategy to milk the clock and have Bradley play hero ball. It was the same at Georgia with Caldwell-Pope making SEC POY while Georgia had a losing conference record (and got demolished by Cal in a preseason tournament). We often saw the same with Braun and Cuonzo. All three are of the Midwestern, defense first, plodding style. Braun and especially Cuonzo are just better recruiters.
I saw that, too, and I had the same reaction.
Put me firmly in the "better with Bradley" camp. His numbers are generally down this year from his 3-year averages at Cal (especially 3-pt shooting), even FT%. At this point, I attribute that to him pressing and trying to gel with his new team. Although, if he's required to work harder on defense (which I'm not sure is the case), that could be a factor as well. I'm willing to bet his numbers will be better the rest of the season than they have been so far.
This year's team has been a lot more enjoyable to watch (though I share HoopDream's caution that the season is still young). But, as others have noted, there are reasons for that, the main ones being that last year's team had virtually no off-season team training, and the PG play has settled and improved significantly (even though there's still room for much more improvement), and Sam Alajiki has been a significant unexpected contributor. Also, Foreman is playing much more within the team flow than he did last season.
For those who think a volume shooter is antithetical to good team basketball, see Ed Gray. Also, Jordan Shepherd is shooting more shots per game this season than Bradley did last year, yet Bradley was significantly more efficient (Shepherd is 14.6 ppg on 13.7 FGA, whereas Bradley was 18.0 ppg on 13.0 FGA).
I don't have any inside knowledge, and I don't blame Bradley nor Fox for Bradley transferring. The desire to be on a likely NCAA tournament team for once in his college career seems plenty reasonable and justifiable to me. At the end of last year, I thought Cal would be a bubble team this year, assuming Fox proved to be at least a decent coach (which I think he probably is). They had some nice role pieces who I assumed would play better this season, plus a go-to varied scorer in Bradley, much like that wonderful '97 team, though not as good role players.
This year's team has been a lot more enjoyable to watch (though I share HoopDream's caution that the season is still young). But, as others have noted, there are reasons for that, the main ones being that last year's team had virtually no off-season team training, and the PG play has settled and improved significantly (even though there's still room for much more improvement), and Sam Alajiki has been a significant unexpected contributor. Also, Foreman is playing much more within the team flow than he did last season.
For those who think a volume shooter is antithetical to good team basketball, see Ed Gray. Also, Jordan Shepherd is shooting more shots per game this season than Bradley did last year, yet Bradley was significantly more efficient (Shepherd is 14.6 ppg on 13.7 FGA, whereas Bradley was 18.0 ppg on 13.0 FGA).
I don't have any inside knowledge, and I don't blame Bradley nor Fox for Bradley transferring. The desire to be on a likely NCAA tournament team for once in his college career seems plenty reasonable and justifiable to me. At the end of last year, I thought Cal would be a bubble team this year, assuming Fox proved to be at least a decent coach (which I think he probably is). They had some nice role pieces who I assumed would play better this season, plus a go-to varied scorer in Bradley, much like that wonderful '97 team, though not as good role players.
When J Kidd left CaI I thought it would be hard to get excited about Cal hoop anytime soon…..then Ed Gray shows up. That guy was pure viewing pleasure and a veritable scoring machine.
Cal Basketball: On His 45th Birthday, We Relive Ed Gray's 48-Point Outburst vs. WSU | Sports Illustrated Cal Bears News, Analysis and More
https://www.si.com/college/cal/basketball/ed-gray-scores-48-points
* He was awarded the 1997 Pac-10 Player of the Year during his senior season at Cal averaging 24.8 ppg. Wikipedia
*The author of the SI story has an imbedded video in the story. In it he says that in his senior year, Ed Gray scored 1 point every 67 seconds he was on the court and that was twice the scoring rate of Kevin Johnson at Cal (in fairness, Lou held KJ back whereas Braun gave Ed the green light).
Cal Basketball: On His 45th Birthday, We Relive Ed Gray's 48-Point Outburst vs. WSU | Sports Illustrated Cal Bears News, Analysis and More
https://www.si.com/college/cal/basketball/ed-gray-scores-48-points
* He was awarded the 1997 Pac-10 Player of the Year during his senior season at Cal averaging 24.8 ppg. Wikipedia
*The author of the SI story has an imbedded video in the story. In it he says that in his senior year, Ed Gray scored 1 point every 67 seconds he was on the court and that was twice the scoring rate of Kevin Johnson at Cal (in fairness, Lou held KJ back whereas Braun gave Ed the green light).
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Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
For all of his offensive output - there was one game (Illinois, I think) where as the seconds ticked down, Bears were on defense, and Gray took a charge that ended the game. He had good position and timing. And he was as excited about a play as I ever saw him get excited.
Thanks for those Ed Gray memories. My brothers and I found Gray's total lack of shooting conscience to be as amusing as it was impressive. We loved it and we laughed at it.
Other than the '89-'90 team (K Smith, Hendrick, Walton, Elleby, Drew, Fisher, etc.) that '97 team was my favorite. Smith and Hendrick are both on my personal Mt. Rushmore of Cal basketball (along with Kidd and Jorge).
I could watch either of those two teams (along with the '92-'93 once it got rolling) play forever. Now I'll have to search the internet for any available clips of those teams.
We run into Bill Elleby occasionally at my kids' games in Seattle. I've shared with him what special memories those games in Harmon were. That Villanova game. Come to think of it, both of those teams ('90 and '97) had a classic game against Villanova.
Sorry to indulge myself in such a digression down memory lane.
Other than the '89-'90 team (K Smith, Hendrick, Walton, Elleby, Drew, Fisher, etc.) that '97 team was my favorite. Smith and Hendrick are both on my personal Mt. Rushmore of Cal basketball (along with Kidd and Jorge).
I could watch either of those two teams (along with the '92-'93 once it got rolling) play forever. Now I'll have to search the internet for any available clips of those teams.
We run into Bill Elleby occasionally at my kids' games in Seattle. I've shared with him what special memories those games in Harmon were. That Villanova game. Come to think of it, both of those teams ('90 and '97) had a classic game against Villanova.
Sorry to indulge myself in such a digression down memory lane.
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