Not a fan of guitar music.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Big C said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Big C said:

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ncbears said:

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As a KALX reporter described the pre-Campanelli years: too much Dick (Edwards and Kuchen).
Kuchen was not a bad recruiter - besides the people he left for Campanelli (KJ, Butler, Washington, Keith Smith), he also got Mark McNamara to transfer from Santa Clara
And we were very excited by the Michaels (Pitts and Chavez) - but injuries and other woes just left Cal with few wins.
Kuchen was a Digger Phelps assistant at Notre Dame - so there were high expectations even after a disastrous first year - where he reportedly sent a telegram to Digger about how Kuchen matched Digger's first year record at Notre Dame (I think 8 wins?).

But, there were fun times at Harmon.

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Great recollections (pretty sure Keith Smith was a Campanelli recruit, though). Two other pretty decent players he recruited (year 3?) were Butch Hayes and Sam Potter. I happened to be watching a practice one day when Kuchen kicked out Potter (either for loafing or being a smart ass) and so I wasn't surprised a couple of months later when he transferred. Kuchen's problem as a recruiter was there were years that he basically struck out and had to go down to his "Plan C"s.

One thing Kuchen knew, which our latest coaches can't seem to figure out, was where most of our recruits can be coming from: SoCal.

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Dick Kuchen, very cool, even though not great success on the court, was a classy guy.
Butch Hays, in my opinion, one of the top 5 defensive guards ever to play at Cal. I still think A.J. Diggs was the best.
Sam Potter, no better than a streaky jump shooter. Other than that, not much of a player.

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Sam Potter ended up transferring to Oral Roberts, where he averaged 15+ ppg, 4.5 rpg and 3 apg over two seasons.

He scored in double figures at Cal as both a freshman and sophomore. Didn't get along too well with Kooch.

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Potter didn't get along with Kooch because he didn't play a stitch of defense. Stats can sometimes be deceiving.

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No doubt that was part of it. Reportedly, Kuchen didn't run a very, very tight ship, but counted on his young adult players to have enough of a sense of responsibility to know when not to cross the line. Sam would try and stick his toe past the line in various areas, just to see what would happen.

Big C said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Big C said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Big C said:

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ncbears said:

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As a KALX reporter described the pre-Campanelli years: too much Dick (Edwards and Kuchen).
Kuchen was not a bad recruiter - besides the people he left for Campanelli (KJ, Butler, Washington, Keith Smith), he also got Mark McNamara to transfer from Santa Clara
And we were very excited by the Michaels (Pitts and Chavez) - but injuries and other woes just left Cal with few wins.
Kuchen was a Digger Phelps assistant at Notre Dame - so there were high expectations even after a disastrous first year - where he reportedly sent a telegram to Digger about how Kuchen matched Digger's first year record at Notre Dame (I think 8 wins?).

But, there were fun times at Harmon.

---

Great recollections (pretty sure Keith Smith was a Campanelli recruit, though). Two other pretty decent players he recruited (year 3?) were Butch Hayes and Sam Potter. I happened to be watching a practice one day when Kuchen kicked out Potter (either for loafing or being a smart ass) and so I wasn't surprised a couple of months later when he transferred. Kuchen's problem as a recruiter was there were years that he basically struck out and had to go down to his "Plan C"s.

One thing Kuchen knew, which our latest coaches can't seem to figure out, was where most of our recruits can be coming from: SoCal.

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Dick Kuchen, very cool, even though not great success on the court, was a classy guy.
Butch Hays, in my opinion, one of the top 5 defensive guards ever to play at Cal. I still think A.J. Diggs was the best.
Sam Potter, no better than a streaky jump shooter. Other than that, not much of a player.

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Sam Potter ended up transferring to Oral Roberts, where he averaged 15+ ppg, 4.5 rpg and 3 apg over two seasons.

He scored in double figures at Cal as both a freshman and sophomore. Didn't get along too well with Kooch.

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Potter didn't get along with Kooch because he didn't play a stitch of defense. Stats can sometimes be deceiving.

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No doubt that was part of it. Reportedly, Kuchen didn't run a very, very tight ship, but counted on his young adult players to have enough of a sense of responsibility to know when not to cross the line. Sam would try and stick his toe past the line in various areas, just to see what would happen.

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Which probably explains why Lou was hired as his replacement. One extreme to the other.

oskidunker said:

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Disagree. Campanelli resurrected Cal basketball. Great defensive coach, poor offensive coach. Got us into post season play for the first time in 30 years. Nit, ncaa.

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When Gary Colson was Lou's "OC," now that was a fine pairing.

oskidunker said:

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Not a fan of guitar music.

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oskidunker said:

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Disagree. Campanelli resurrected Cal basketball. Great defensive coach, poor offensive coach. Got us into post season play for the first time in 30 years. Nit, ncaa.

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Who will resurrect Cal basketball this time around?

Mike Montgomerys son.

Ccajon2 said:

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oskidunker said:

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Disagree. Campanelli resurrected Cal basketball. Great defensive coach, poor offensive coach. Got us into post season play for the first time in 30 years. Nit, ncaa.

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Who will resurrect Cal basketball this time around?

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Dennis Gates

That's not Kuchen. That's Andy Griffith ...I would have preferred Don Knotts over Campanelli. Neither of them knew a lick about basketball, but, Knotts would have had his kids laughing whether they won or lost. Remember when Cal went back East to play two games against two inferior teams. Cal lost both games badly and Campanelli refused to board the team bus with the players back to the hotel. A little history, boys!!! You have to feel a little sorry for him though, because Bozeman and Kidd stabbed him in the back which greased the skids for his departure. More history, boys..

bearister said:

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My memory is that Lou broke the spirit of both Chris Washington and Bryant Walton…and that it really pi$$ed me off.

Thank God Lou loved Keith Smith, because I did too. Keith may be one of the most underrated PG's in Cal hoop history. When you look up the term "stop and pop," a picture of Keith Smith is there.

Bryant Walton was not without his brief moment in the sun, however.

Walton Helps Cure the Bears' Pauley Woes : College basketball: California senior, former Saddleback High School standout and county player of the year, scored to help clinch streak-ending victory at UCLA. - Los Angeles Times


https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-02-17-sp-775-story.html

Keith got props in this article:

"Guards Keith Smith, a 6-4 senior, and Ryan Drew, a 6-3 junior, have developed into exceptional three-point shooters. Smith averaged a team-high 16.7 points and 6.7 assists a game to set a school record."

They Are Warriors, Poets--and Winners : College basketball: With Campanelli's leadership and Colson's offense, Cal turns the clock back to the glory days. - Los Angeles Times


https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-03-08-sp-2845-story.html

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Thanks. And the story about Bryant Walton was very touching.

Jorge has a memory. Lillard has $190M in career earnings.

Bernie Simpson sat in the seat below me at Harmon for years. I learned a lot from him. When I first started talking to him during games, I heard him mention St. Ignatius HS. I told him that when I was 9 or 10 I went to an O'Dowd vs St. Ignatius game in the City with my parents (my older sister was a junior or senior at O'Dowd at the time). I told Bernie that a guard for SI collapsed inbounding the ball and died on the court. Bernie responded: "I am well aware of that incident. I was the coach of SI at the time."

bearister said:

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Jorge has a memory. Lillard has $190M in career earnings.

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Yeah, my brother-in-law went head to head with Michael Jordan in college and out-scored him 23-8.

calumnus said:

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bearister said:

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Jorge has a memory. Lillard has $190M in career earnings.

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Yeah, my brother-in-law went head to head with Michael Jordan in college and out-scored him 23-8.

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Well, so much for the legend that Dean Smith was the only person that could hold Michael Jordan to under 20 ppg.

Er, wait . . . did Dean Smith marry your sister?!?

Bernie Simpson was a year ahead of me at NDV grammar school and SI. He used to date my cousin. Smart as a whip and a good defender. Only an average shooter. Hit two home runs playing against the Stanford freshman one day at Sunken diamond. Died about two years ago.

Ccajon2 said:

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oskidunker said:

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Disagree. Campanelli resurrected Cal basketball. Great defensive coach, poor offensive coach. Got us into post season play for the first time in 30 years. Nit, ncaa.

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Who will resurrect Cal basketball this time around?

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Right now, Fox is the only one who can do it, because he is the one who has the head coach's job, until we hear differently.

SFCityBear said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Big C said:

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ncbears said:

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As a KALX reporter described the pre-Campanelli years: too much Dick (Edwards and Kuchen).
Kuchen was not a bad recruiter - besides the people he left for Campanelli (KJ, Butler, Washington, Keith Smith), he also got Mark McNamara to transfer from Santa Clara
And we were very excited by the Michaels (Pitts and Chavez) - but injuries and other woes just left Cal with few wins.
Kuchen was a Digger Phelps assistant at Notre Dame - so there were high expectations even after a disastrous first year - where he reportedly sent a telegram to Digger about how Kuchen matched Digger's first year record at Notre Dame (I think 8 wins?).

But, there were fun times at Harmon.

---

Great recollections (pretty sure Keith Smith was a Campanelli recruit, though). Two other pretty decent players he recruited (year 3?) were Butch Hayes and Sam Potter. I happened to be watching a practice one day when Kuchen kicked out Potter (either for loafing or being a smart ass) and so I wasn't surprised a couple of months later when he transferred. Kuchen's problem as a recruiter was there were years that he basically struck out and had to go down to his "Plan C"s.

One thing Kuchen knew, which our latest coaches can't seem to figure out, was where most of our recruits can be coming from: SoCal.

---

Dick Kuchen, very cool, even though not great success on the court, was a classy guy.
Butch Hays, in my opinion, one of the top 5 defensive guards ever to play at Cal. I still think A.J. Diggs was the best.
Sam Potter, no better than a streaky jump shooter. Other than that, not much of a player.

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For me, Kidd was the best defender we ever had. He could make his man go wherever he wanted, and not go where the man wanted to go. Maybe a tie between Al Buch, Bernie Simpson and Jorge for a close second. They were shut down defenders. Remember when Jorge shut down Damian Lillard? A clinic. I liked Diggs a lot, except he was not a shut down defender. He was too small and slight to move his man around. He was quick, with great instincts for the steal. He often came in and killed the other team's momentum, by getting a couple of quick steals right off the bench. I think he already had a couple of steals by the time he had finished lacing up his sneakers before the game. But getting steals is not great defense. Not allowing your man to do anything he wants to do is great defense. Of course that is mostly before the "Help" era of defense.

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I follow your line of thinking SFCB. Buch and Simpson were before my time, but yes JK and Jorge, like Butch Hays were your "classic" shut down defenders. Bigger guys that still possessed extreme quickness and tenacity. But the A.J. Diggs "style of defense" can be just as effective as the others mentioned. Its like comparing a ribeye to a porterhouse. I just recall several games when A.J. REALLY got into the heads of opposing point guards. And actually right now Joel Brown is a bit of a, say Jorge/A.J. combo, which really adds value to the defense.

I forget...how many all-conference defense awards did Diggs collect?

Civil Bear said:

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I forget...how many all-conference defense awards did Diggs collect?

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I think it was 6 or 7

RedlessWardrobe identified that some of his defensive value came from 'getting in opponents' head' A HUGE part of that was because they knew he was a walk-on.

In reality, I never got the impression that opposing coaches or teams worried or prepped for him - which they DID do for Jason and Jorge.

BeachedBear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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I forget...how many all-conference defense awards did Diggs collect?

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I think it was 6 or 7

RedlessWardrobe identified that some of his defensive value came from 'getting in opponents' head' A HUGE part of that was because they knew he was a walk-on.

In reality, I never got the impression that opposing coaches or teams worried or prepped for him - which they DID do for Jason and Jorge.

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Hard for a guy to get much all-conference recognition when his overall game only warrants him 15-or-so minutes per game. Diggs did have several games, though, in which his steals were amazing. One trick pony, but what a trick!

I do remember that, I fell like that was in the Kidd years

Campy broke Drew's spirit. A shooter without self-confidence is lost, and that's where Ryan wound-up.

Lou brought some East Coast sports notoriety to Cal for a minute.

calumnus said:

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bearister said:

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My memory is that Lou broke the spirit of both Chris Washington and Bryant Walton…and that it really pi$$ed me off.

Thank God Lou loved Keith Smith, because I did too. Keith may be one of the most underrated PG's in Call hoop history. When you look up the term "stop and pop," a picture of Keith Smith is there.

Bryant Walton was not without his brief moment in the Sun, however.

Walton Helps Cure the Bears' Pauley Woes : College basketball: California senior, former Saddleback High School standout and county player of the year, scored to help clinch streak-ending victory at UCLA. - Los Angeles Times


https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-02-17-sp-775-story.html

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Kutchen and the rest of the team used to go to Evan's to root for KJ at shortstop. The 80's were an amazing time for PAC-10 baseball: Elway in right field and pitching for Stanford, McGuire hitting monster shots with aluminum bats for USC, Barry Bonds at ASU, etc.

Washington and KJ were a great backcourt, but Campanelli was brutal on them. I remember the score tied (I believe) and KJ getting a steal and taking it the length of the court for the easy layup to give us the lead only to have Lou roughly pull him to the bench screaming at him.

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1980...we were an inning or two away from playing for the NCAA baseball title. We just couldn't beat Terry Francona and his Arizona Wildcats.

SFCityBear said:

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mbBear said:

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Big C said:

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ncbears said:

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As a KALX reporter described the pre-Campanelli years: too much Dick (Edwards and Kuchen).
Kuchen was not a bad recruiter - besides the people he left for Campanelli (KJ, Butler, Washington, Keith Smith), he also got Mark McNamara to transfer from Santa Clara
And we were very excited by the Michaels (Pitts and Chavez) - but injuries and other woes just left Cal with few wins.
Kuchen was a Digger Phelps assistant at Notre Dame - so there were high expectations even after a disastrous first year - where he reportedly sent a telegram to Digger about how Kuchen matched Digger's first year record at Notre Dame (I think 8 wins?).

But, there were fun times at Harmon.

---

Great recollections (pretty sure Keith Smith was a Campanelli recruit, though). Two other pretty decent players he recruited (year 3?) were Butch Hayes and Sam Potter. I happened to be watching a practice one day when Kuchen kicked out Potter (either for loafing or being a smart ass) and so I wasn't surprised a couple of months later when he transferred. Kuchen's problem as a recruiter was there were years that he basically struck out and had to go down to his "Plan C"s.

One thing Kuchen knew, which our latest coaches can't seem to figure out, was where most of our recruits can be coming from: SoCal.

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Kuchen, and to some degree Bozeman, were examples of good recruiters, and questionable X and O guys....that's been rare for Cal basketball, as well as football....

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Dare we mention Jim Padgett? My vote for Cal's all-time best recruiter. No concept whatsoever of the X or the O.

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I rarely get to say it in Cal sports discussions but: before my time.

Big C said:

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calumnus said:

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bearister said:

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Jorge has a memory. Lillard has $190M in career earnings.

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Yeah, my brother-in-law went head to head with Michael Jordan in college and out-scored him 23-8.

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Well, so much for the legend that Dean Smith was the only person that could hold Michael Jordan to under 20 ppg.

Er, wait . . . did Dean Smith marry your sister?!?

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Dean Smith was MJ's coach, but he was playing against my brother-in-law.

calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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calumnus said:

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bearister said:

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Jorge has a memory. Lillard has $190M in career earnings.

---

Yeah, my brother-in-law went head to head with Michael Jordan in college and out-scored him 23-8.

---

Well, so much for the legend that Dean Smith was the only person that could hold Michael Jordan to under 20 ppg.

Er, wait . . . did Dean Smith marry your sister?!?

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Dean Smith was MJ's coach, but he was playing against my brother-in-law.

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And there goes Big C's wonderful joke.

82gradDLSdad said:

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calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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calumnus said:

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bearister said:

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Jorge has a memory. Lillard has $190M in career earnings.

---

Yeah, my brother-in-law went head to head with Michael Jordan in college and out-scored him 23-8.

---

Well, so much for the legend that Dean Smith was the only person that could hold Michael Jordan to under 20 ppg.

Er, wait . . . did Dean Smith marry your sister?!?

---

Dean Smith was MJ's coach, but he was playing against my brother-in-law.

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And there goes Big C's wonderful joke.

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My bad, the joke was very good.

calumnus said:

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82gradDLSdad said:

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calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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calumnus said:

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bearister said:

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Jorge has a memory. Lillard has $190M in career earnings.

---

Yeah, my brother-in-law went head to head with Michael Jordan in college and out-scored him 23-8.

---

Well, so much for the legend that Dean Smith was the only person that could hold Michael Jordan to under 20 ppg.

Er, wait . . . did Dean Smith marry your sister?!?

---

Dean Smith was MJ's coach, but he was playing against my brother-in-law.

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And there goes Big C's wonderful joke.

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My bad, the joke was very good.

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Any thread with Kuchen in the title (even if spelled wrong) is bound to bring out my best. Unfortunately for me, the few gifts I have are not ones that can likely be monetized.

The moderators have the ability to change the spelling of the coaches name. They have not done so.

Well, this is what I get when I'm not looking at the basketball posts enough, and focusing too much on football early signing day, but I'll jump in a little late.

In seven years, I got two degrees at Cal, one in '82 and one in '85. Those seven years just happened to coincide with the 7 Kuchen years, not the prettiest 7 years of Cal basketball. However, I had a great view of those seven years, since I went to almost every home game and mostly sat in the first row opposite the Cal bench, but on rare occasions when the student section was packed, mostly for UCLA, I ended up as far back as row 3.

Kuchen did inherit a bit of a mess, with no time to recruit a good class for his first year of coaching, and Gene Ransom and another guard getting booted out for academics before his first season started, and not a great roster. When he was fired, Kuchen left some good players behind, like KJ, Leonard Taylor, Dave Butler, and Chris Washington.

The record pretty much speaks for itself, and many of the positives and negatives have been said in this thread, so I'll just say two negative things and two positive things abut the Kuchen era that I don't think are already in this thread.

On the negative side, 1) The most positive thing KJ had to say about Campy was that Campy taught him to play defense, which implies that Kuchen did not, and 2) I thought that, in those pre-shot clock days, too often, Kuchen coached not to lose rather than coaching to win, too often he'd try to stall when ahead in the second half, that generally killed the spark that got the Bears ahead in the first place, and too often we'd lose.

On the positive side, 1) Kuchen correctly recognized quickly into the disaster of a first year that (while the team was never going to be what you would call good) the Bears were better off going smaller with Doug True at center and Tom Schneiderjohn coming off the bench -- we lost a lot of height that way, but in a day before anyone played "small ball," Kuchen rightly saw the Bears were better off going smaller that year, and 2) Kuchen was undefeated against Coach K, he went 1-0 with a victory over Duke at the Oakland Coliseum Arena on December 4, 1982 -- Duke had four freshmen in Coach K's first good recruiting class, who would lead them to the championship game in their senior year, 1986 NBA draft first round picks Johnny Dawkins and Mark Alarie, 3rd round pick Dave Henderson, and a high school teammate of that season's Pac-10 freshman of the year, Dave Butler, some guy named Jay Bilas who went in the 5th round of the 1986 draft and was never heard from again.

I guess I'll give one final thought, I thought that Kuchen's players played hard. Until Wyking Jones came along, I never saw a worse team than the 1978-79 team from Kuchen's first year, but I still enjoyed watching that team, it had no quit in it (of course it helped that it had Doug True, who is still the Cal career leader in floor burns), and I felt that way about all of Kuchen's teams. Watching two years of Wyking Jones coached teams, and too many times when the effort simply wasn't there, could really make a person yearn for the Kuchen era.