Never thought I would ask this....

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RedlessWardrobe
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7:50a, 1/3/22
Has the Cal BB team "peaked too early"?. That's because I really never thought we would peak at all.
Seriously, well played game by the Bears but I have to say that the ASU half court offense appeared to have no real purpose to it. Lots of guys dribbling with their heads down and improvising on the fly. What are you doing Bobby?
OTOH, I was at the game so I'm not sure what's up with the taping on Jordan's right hand. I don't recall it being there the last game, but maybe I missed it. Was it mentioned on the broadcast? Maybe somebody can help me out with an update.
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Bear8995
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7:51a, 1/3/22
Shepherd has had his hand taped for pretty much the last 10 or so games. Sprained thumb. He's played through it.
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drizzlybear
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8:21a, 1/3/22
I think Cal will surprise a number of teams early in the season. ASU clearly had no idea what they were in for. Brown's easy blow-by on the game's first possession, both pick-and-roll assists from Shepherd (setting up the electric Kelly finish and the sideline 3), and Anticevich's baseline spin move and "blow-by" layup all completely surprised ASU. More important than those impressive individual plays was the all-around solid team play at both ends of the floor (except when Cal got sloppy a little bit in H2).

I'm sure there's a ceiling for this team somewhere in the middle of the conference, but clearly this isn't the Cal team of the past handful of seasons.
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RedlessWardrobe
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8:28a, 1/3/22
Also things are quiet right now on the anti-Mark Fox front.

Have to hope that getting in a game yesterday while USC has been idle for a while could help us Thursday night. That being said, there can be no letup executing the half court offense and defensive intensity. And how we rebound might be the biggest variable of success moving forward. Grant has been excellent on the boards lately, hope he can keep that up against tougher competition.
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bearister
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8:45a, 1/3/22
I think the Bears will play hard, fundamentally sound basketball that will require the better teams to use all their tools to beat us. They will not be able to rely anymore on Cal just conceding defeat.

Our slow down offense will get derailed when a good team jumps us early. You can't play from behind at a slow pace. When Bears are forced to play more up tempo, the 3 point shots may clang more.

I do think we have players that can cause foul problems for the bigger teams.

The elite PAC 12 teams will beat us in Haas (unless Covid significantly dicks with their rosters). I think, at least for now, Cal is a good bet to cover the spread against the good teams.
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59bear
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In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 9:23a, 1/3/22
RedlessWardrobe said:
Also things are quiet right now on the anti-Mark Fox front.

Have to hope that getting in a game yesterday while USC has been idle for a while could help us Thursday night. That being said, there can be no letup executing the half court offense and defensive intensity. And how we rebound might be the biggest variable of success moving forward. Grant has been excellent on the boards lately, hope he can keep that up against tougher competition.
Fox is proving he can coach. What he has yet to show (and most suspect he won't) is that he can recruit well enough compete at the top of the conference.
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bearchamp
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10:34a, 1/3/22
Can we have a consensus that Fox can coach? This team may not win always, but they will play good basketball. As to recruiting, we are two years away from knowing if he can recruit players good enough to near the top of the Pac. "Star" ratings are not the answer, players are.
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CALiforniALUM
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In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 10:45a, 1/3/22
RedlessWardrobe said:
Has the Cal BB team "peaked too early"?. That's because I really never thought we would peak at all.
Seriously, well played game by the Bears but I have to say that the ASU half court offense appeared to have no real purpose to it. Lots of guys dribbling with their heads down and improvising on the fly. What are you doing Bobby?
OTOH, I was at the game so I'm not sure what's up with the taping on Jordan's right hand. I don't recall it being there the last game, but maybe I missed it. Was it mentioned on the broadcast? Maybe somebody can help me out with an update.

I sort of took the game yesterday as not peaking too early but that our end of season peak might be higher than we originally expected. The thing that always derails us are injuries. We can't afford to lose a few key players else we will go into the tank quickly. Assuming we have some luck on the injury front, this team will improve and be an even harder out for others.

I do agree that we have a great chance of catching some of the better teams a bit flat early in the schedule as they are not playing and we are. So let's hope for a few upsets along the way.
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KoreAmBear
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In reply to bearchamp • 11:35a, 1/3/22
bearchamp said:
Can we have a consensus that Fox can coach? This team may not win always, but they will play good basketball. As to recruiting, we are two years away from knowing if he can recruit players good enough to near the top of the Pac. "Star" ratings are not the answer, players are.
I would say for now he is a solid coach up to a certain level. I don't think anyone was saying he was worse than Wyking. Whether he breaks that slightly above average level (and this is very similar to Wilcox) is going to be at issue the rest of his time here. I think he is on his way to exceeding expectations for the season, since the expectations were so low. Likely we will land in middle of the Pac-12, make some noise in the conference tournament and be on the bubble for the NIT. And that would be a success for this season. But then what? Back to BDW status when Grant, Andre, Jordan and Makale are gone? So it may take another 2-3 seasons then to compete for an NCAA berth (which for Braun and even Monty meant 1 or 2 and done). If that is basically what is satisfactory for us, then so be it. So the issue of whether he can coach depends on how high the standards are. That all said, we definitely are a drastically improved team from last year. I will credit Fox for that.
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BearSD
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In reply to 59bear • 11:45a, 1/3/22
59bear said:
RedlessWardrobe said:
Also things are quiet right now on the anti-Mark Fox front.

Have to hope that getting in a game yesterday while USC has been idle for a while could help us Thursday night. That being said, there can be no letup executing the half court offense and defensive intensity. And how we rebound might be the biggest variable of success moving forward. Grant has been excellent on the boards lately, hope he can keep that up against tougher competition.
Fox is proving he can coach. What he has yet to show (and most suspect he won't) is that he can recruit well enough compete at the top of the conference.
That's right. To become one of the big dogs, recruiting (including transfers) has to be much better.

Without better recruiting, the ceiling is like Oregon State's -- middle of the pack finish, maybe once in a decade the team gets hot in the conference tournament and rides it into the NCAAs. Last season was Oregon State's once in a decade. Even then, that might be followed by a crash like the Beavers are experiencing this season.
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oskidunker
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In reply to KoreAmBear • 12:18p, 1/3/22
KoreAmBear said:
bearchamp said:
Can we have a consensus that Fox can coach? This team may not win always, but they will play good basketball. As to recruiting, we are two years away from knowing if he can recruit players good enough to near the top of the Pac. "Star" ratings are not the answer, players are.
I would say for now he is a solid coach up to a certain level. I don't think anyone was saying he was worse than Wyking. Whether he breaks that slightly above average level (and this is very similar to Wilcox) is going to be at issue the rest of his time here. I think he is on his way to exceeding expectations for the season, since the expectations were so low. Likely we will land in middle of the Pac-12, make some noise in the conference tournament and be on the bubble for the NIT. And that would be a success for this season. But then what? Back to BDW status when Grant, Andre, Jordan and Makale are gone? So it may take another 2-3 seasons then to compete for an NCAA berth (which for Braun and even Monty meant 1 or 2 and done). If that is basically what is satisfactory for us, then so be it. So the issue of whether he can coach depends on how high the standards are. That all said, we definitely are a drastically improved team from last year. I will credit Fox for that.
I like our freshman and the incoming recruits. I see no drop off. But you can hope……
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socaltownie
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In reply to KoreAmBear • 12:57p, 1/3/22
KoreAmBear said:
bearchamp said:
Can we have a consensus that Fox can coach? This team may not win always, but they will play good basketball. As to recruiting, we are two years away from knowing if he can recruit players good enough to near the top of the Pac. "Star" ratings are not the answer, players are.
I would say for now he is a solid coach up to a certain level. I don't think anyone was saying he was worse than Wyking. Whether he breaks that slightly above average level (and this is very similar to Wilcox) is going to be at issue the rest of his time here. I think he is on his way to exceeding expectations for the season, since the expectations were so low. Likely we will land in middle of the Pac-12, make some noise in the conference tournament and be on the bubble for the NIT. And that would be a success for this season. But then what? Back to BDW status when Grant, Andre, Jordan and Makale are gone? So it may take another 2-3 seasons then to compete for an NCAA berth (which for Braun and even Monty meant 1 or 2 and done). If that is basically what is satisfactory for us, then so be it. So the issue of whether he can coach depends on how high the standards are. That all said, we definitely are a drastically improved team from last year. I will credit Fox for that.
As a member of the Anti-Fox crowd he has always been a good teacher. showed those strengths in year 1. I am VERY happily surprised that we are putting together a nice little win streak. Thursday is going to be important - not that I expect the bears to win but that it will be useful to see how well our coaching (because Fox is a FAR superior coach than Andy E) stacks up against Andy E's recruiting (which is VASTLY better than Fox's)
Take care of your Chicken
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BeachedBear
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In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 1:44p, 1/3/22
RedlessWardrobe said:
Also things are quiet right now on the anti-Mark Fox front.

Have to hope that getting in a game yesterday while USC has been idle for a while could help us Thursday night. That being said, there can be no letup executing the half court offense and defensive intensity. And how we rebound might be the biggest variable of success moving forward. Grant has been excellent on the boards lately, hope he can keep that up against tougher competition.
As they should be. The team has been doing well and Fox and staff should get some credit along with the players.

There are a few posters who are anti-Fox, but many more of us are simply critical of Fox and the hire. But most of them (posting on this thread) support him as our coach and always wish this program the best.

I think you're right about matchup with USC and rebounding being a key.
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wifeisafurd
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In reply to bearchamp • 1:45p, 1/3/22
bearchamp said:
Can we have a consensus that Fox can coach? This team may not win always, but they will play good basketball. As to recruiting, we are two years away from knowing if he can recruit players good enough to near the top of the Pac. "Star" ratings are not the answer, players are.
I think there was a view Fox had coaching chops, but not recruiting chops. If you go back and look at the comments when Fox was hired, the view was things would improve, but Fox was not the kind of recruiter to have a high celling.

They were not playing good basketball last year when I saw them. There are players that have had to be built-up over time with a couple of key transfers. Guys like Kelly and GA have improved both physically and mentally. I think the offense still is a work in process, but has improved greatly. Right now this team is playing good basketball against decent and lousy opponents. I suspect Bearsister's concerns are well taken. Let's not get down on the team too much when they face the LA schools, because there are huge differences in talent that may disrupt what Fox is tying to do.

Also I like that Fox is recruiting guys that seem interchangeable and somewhat athletic. Lot of good pieces. Just two high level guys could really change things.
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RedlessWardrobe
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2:19p, 1/3/22
In addition to the "interchangable" factor, I feel the biggest strength of this team has been the fact that in most occasions we are using a 10 man rotation with the bench guys being about as capable as one can ask for. In fact, in my recollection of Cal teams over the last 55 years, depth wise (as opposed to total talent) this may be the deepest Cal team ever. Even the Kidd/sophmore team only went 7 or 8 deep. Using this larger rotation definitely has been a plus at the end of games.
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socaltownie
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In reply to wifeisafurd • 2:29p, 1/3/22
wifeisafurd said:
bearchamp said:
Can we have a consensus that Fox can coach? This team may not win always, but they will play good basketball. As to recruiting, we are two years away from knowing if he can recruit players good enough to near the top of the Pac. "Star" ratings are not the answer, players are.
I think there was a view Fox had coaching chops, but not recruiting chops. If you go back and look at the comments when Fox was hired, the view was things would improve, but Fox was not the kind of recruiter to have a high celling.

They were not playing good basketball last year when I saw them. There are players that have had to be built-up over time with a couple of key transfers. Guys like Kelly and GA have improved both physically and mentally. I think the offense still is a work in process, but has improved greatly. Right now this team is playing good basketball against decent and lousy opponents. I suspect Bearsister's concerns are well taken. Let's not get down on the team too much when they face the LA schools, because there are huge differences in talent that may disrupt what Fox is tying to do.

Also I like that Fox is recruiting guys that seem interchangeable and somewhat athletic. Lot of good pieces. Just two high level guys could really change things.
The interesting thing is that interchangeability is really the most interesting development of the modern game. Lars is actually the exception on this team - the modern game really has guys that can play 2-3 and sometimes even 4 different positions on the floor depending on matchups, etc.
Take care of your Chicken
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calumnus
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In reply to KoreAmBear • 3:46p, 1/3/22
KoreAmBear said:
bearchamp said:
Can we have a consensus that Fox can coach? This team may not win always, but they will play good basketball. As to recruiting, we are two years away from knowing if he can recruit players good enough to near the top of the Pac. "Star" ratings are not the answer, players are.
I would say for now he is a solid coach up to a certain level. I don't think anyone was saying he was worse than Wyking. Whether he breaks that slightly above average level (and this is very similar to Wilcox) is going to be at issue the rest of his time here. I think he is on his way to exceeding expectations for the season, since the expectations were so low. Likely we will land in middle of the Pac-12, make some noise in the conference tournament and be on the bubble for the NIT. And that would be a success for this season. But then what? Back to BDW status when Grant, Andre, Jordan and Makale are gone? So it may take another 2-3 seasons then to compete for an NCAA berth (which for Braun and even Monty meant 1 or 2 and done). If that is basically what is satisfactory for us, then so be it. So the issue of whether he can coach depends on how high the standards are. That all said, we definitely are a drastically improved team from last year. I will credit Fox for that.


Well said. We are playing well mostly with our super seniors and much of the Pac-12 is weak (Hurley is terrible). Fox has adapted well to the loss of Bradley. The spots behind the 3 Top teams are wide open. We are beating the teams we are ranked above and at home, so that should not be a surprise, but we are not just beating them, we are blowing them out, which could indicate we have some upside.

These players are fun to root for, 4th Gen says the guys still on the team don't mind Fox's tongue lashings so i just want to enjoy the wins and don't want to dwell too much on the future.

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