wifeisafurd said:

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The anti-Fox (the guy who can recruit, but can't coach) Haase is out at Furd

There is some possibility Cronin and Enfelt go back to the part of the country they are from. Cronin to Louisville for example.

The Arizona coach gets a raise and extension.

Everyone else is staying put.. No one really wants them, and then comes all the excuses why they won't be fired. Hurley is bailed out by a late win run and good recruiting classes. Boyle had decent seasons and a good recruiting class and basketball needs to be stable, since Buff football is a sheet show. Smith (Utah and WSU) are new and show potential, Tinkle is too expensive after he got a big contact with his elite 8 run, Altman is too old, but does't want to retire on a clunker season. Hopkins had a decent season and recruited a top player, but his seats is warming-up next year. And then there is Fox.

Fox won't get fired because Knowlton dosn't want to admit he made a mistake (Wilner actually said that). Fox's teams are well coached, but lack talent. Cal is one of the worst jobs (inference about recruiting talent?). All around put down of Cal. Thanks Jon.

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F Wilber. Cuonzo came in and in two years got Cal to a #4 seed, I doubt he would say Tennessee or Missouri are "easier." Braun recruited fairly well and did much better than he later did at Rice. Monty took over a Braun team that finished in second to last, lost its best player, and in year two won the PAC-12 regular season Championship.

There is nothing wrong with Cal other than the fact that we hire lousy basketball coaches. One day (maybe after Knowlton, if we still have a program) we wil hire a coach that can recruit AND is good at coaching an efficient offense and defense, instead of just one or the other (or neither) and then making excuses for them.

PtownBear1 said:

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calumnus said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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The anti-Fox (the guy who can recruit, but can't coach) Haase is out at Furd

There is some possibility Cronin and Enfelt go back to the part of the country they are from. Cronin to Louisville for example.

The Arizona coach gets a raise and extension.

Everyone else is staying put.. No one really wants them, and then comes all the excuses why they won't be fired. Hurley is bailed out by a late win run and good recruiting classes. Boyle had decent seasons and a good recruiting class and basketball needs to be stable, since Buff football is a sheet show. Smith (Utah and WSU) are new and show potential, Tinkle is too expensive after he got a big contact with his elite 8 run, Altman is too old, but does't want to retire on a clunker season. Hopkins had a decent season and recruited a top player, but his seats is warming-up next year. And then there is Fox.

Fox won't get fired because Knowlton dosn't want to admit he made a mistake (Wilner actually said that). Fox's teams are well coached, but lack talent. Cal is one of the worst jobs (inference about recruiting talent?). All around put down of Cal. Thanks Jon.

---

F Wilber. Cuonzo came in and in two years got Cal to a #4 seed, I doubt he would say Tennessee or Missouri are "easier." Braun recruited fairly well and diif much better than he later did st Rice. Monty took over a Braun team that finished in second to last, lost its best layer, and in year two won the PAC-12 regular season Championship.

There is nothing wrong with Cal other than the fact that we hire lousy basketball coaches. One day (maybe after Knowlton, if we still have a program) we wil hire a coach that can recruit AND is good at coaching an efficient offense and defense, instead of just one or the other (or neither) and then making excuses for them.

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Agree 100%. Hate when I see those pathetic posts on here with people claiming that Cal can't do better than the horrible coaches the clueless admins have hired.

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It's hard to do better if there is little will to do so. Cal's biggest issue with intercollegiate athletic success (actually , lack of) is a broad based apathy. That's a major reason for settling for mediocrity (or worse) and an unwillingness to commit to salaries, facilities that might attract top level coaching/playing talent.

59bear said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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calumnus said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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The anti-Fox (the guy who can recruit, but can't coach) Haase is out at Furd

There is some possibility Cronin and Enfelt go back to the part of the country they are from. Cronin to Louisville for example.

The Arizona coach gets a raise and extension.

Everyone else is staying put.. No one really wants them, and then comes all the excuses why they won't be fired. Hurley is bailed out by a late win run and good recruiting classes. Boyle had decent seasons and a good recruiting class and basketball needs to be stable, since Buff football is a sheet show. Smith (Utah and WSU) are new and show potential, Tinkle is too expensive after he got a big contact with his elite 8 run, Altman is too old, but does't want to retire on a clunker season. Hopkins had a decent season and recruited a top player, but his seats is warming-up next year. And then there is Fox.

Fox won't get fired because Knowlton dosn't want to admit he made a mistake (Wilner actually said that). Fox's teams are well coached, but lack talent. Cal is one of the worst jobs (inference about recruiting talent?). All around put down of Cal. Thanks Jon.

---

F Wilber. Cuonzo came in and in two years got Cal to a #4 seed, I doubt he would say Tennessee or Missouri are "easier." Braun recruited fairly well and diif much better than he later did st Rice. Monty took over a Braun team that finished in second to last, lost its best layer, and in year two won the PAC-12 regular season Championship.

There is nothing wrong with Cal other than the fact that we hire lousy basketball coaches. One day (maybe after Knowlton, if we still have a program) we wil hire a coach that can recruit AND is good at coaching an efficient offense and defense, instead of just one or the other (or neither) and then making excuses for them.

---

Agree 100%. Hate when I see those pathetic posts on here with people claiming that Cal can't do better than the horrible coaches the clueless admins have hired.

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It's hard to do better if there is little will to do so. Cal's biggest issue with intercollegiate athletic success (actually , lack of) is a broad based apathy. That's a major reason for settling for mediocrity (or worse) and an unwillingness to commit to salaries, facilities that might attract top level coaching/playing talent.

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Well there's nothing that can be done about administrative apathy, but I'd argue that fan apathy is a direct result of having bad programs, and the fans will start showing support again when warranted.

Think back to 2015/2016, I recall Haas being packed for every game I attended. Also, there was a report that circulated a couple of years back that showed donations to the basketball program were up significantly that year.

And back in the Tedford glory years, even the FCS games were well attended. I knew a number of folks that weren't even Cal grads that were Cal football fans.

And in another example, I have a lot of friends that are SC alum. They largely stopped caring about SC football over the last few years until Riley was announced. Now they're all engaged again.

calumnus said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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The anti-Fox (the guy who can recruit, but can't coach) Haase is out at Furd

There is some possibility Cronin and Enfelt go back to the part of the country they are from. Cronin to Louisville for example.

The Arizona coach gets a raise and extension.

Everyone else is staying put.. No one really wants them, and then comes all the excuses why they won't be fired. Hurley is bailed out by a late win run and good recruiting classes. Boyle had decent seasons and a good recruiting class and basketball needs to be stable, since Buff football is a sheet show. Smith (Utah and WSU) are new and show potential, Tinkle is too expensive after he got a big contact with his elite 8 run, Altman is too old, but does't want to retire on a clunker season. Hopkins had a decent season and recruited a top player, but his seats is warming-up next year. And then there is Fox.

Fox won't get fired because Knowlton dosn't want to admit he made a mistake (Wilner actually said that). Fox's teams are well coached, but lack talent. Cal is one of the worst jobs (inference about recruiting talent?). All around put down of Cal. Thanks Jon.

---

F Wilber. Cuonzo came in and in two years got Cal to a #4 seed, I doubt he would say Tennessee or Missouri are "easier." Braun recruited fairly well and did much better than he later did at Rice. Monty took over a Braun team that finished in second to last, lost its best player, and in year two won the PAC-12 regular season Championship.

There is nothing wrong with Cal other than the fact that we hire lousy basketball coaches. One day (maybe after Knowlton, if we still have a program) we wil hire a coach that can recruit AND is good at coaching an efficient offense and defense, instead of just one or the other (or neither) and then making excuses for them.

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Agreed. Cuonzo Martin thought he was going to get a quick fix at Mizzou with the Porter family going there with him, but that didn't work out and he hasn't recruited well otherwise, he's 5-13 and in 12th place in the SEC this year.

IMO Braun's recruiting started to wane his last year or two at Cal. Rice is a far more difficult place to recruit to.

For the next Cal coach, it has to start with recruiting. If the coaches can't bring in talent comparable to the top third of the conference, then even the best coaches in basketball couldn't get the W-L record consistently in the top third.

wifeisafurd said:

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stu said:

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Full story

TLDR: Wilner rates Cal 4th most likely to have a coaching change but with only a 2% probability. The order may be significant but I have no idea where he gets his percentages.

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The only one I can guess in Haase, who Wilner probably has been told is out unless he can make something happen in the Pac `12 tourney or some large donor comes to his rescue (15% chance?).

As a practical matter, what is the difference between .01% and .001%?

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As another practical matter, what's the difference between 10th place and 12th place?

stu said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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stu said:

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Full story

TLDR: Wilner rates Cal 4th most likely to have a coaching change but with only a 2% probability. The order may be significant but I have no idea where he gets his percentages.

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The only one I can guess in Haase, who Wilner probably has been told is out unless he can make something happen in the Pac `12 tourney or some large donor comes to his rescue (15% chance?).

As a practical matter, what is the difference between .01% and .001%?

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As another practical matter, what's the difference between 10th place and 12th place?

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The former is Cal's ceiling next year, the latter is their floor.

sluggo said:

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stu said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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stu said:

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Full story

TLDR: Wilner rates Cal 4th most likely to have a coaching change but with only a 2% probability. The order may be significant but I have no idea where he gets his percentages.

---

The only one I can guess in Haase, who Wilner probably has been told is out unless he can make something happen in the Pac `12 tourney or some large donor comes to his rescue (15% chance?).

As a practical matter, what is the difference between .01% and .001%?

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As another practical matter, what's the difference between 10th place and 12th place?

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The former is Cal's ceiling next year as long as Fox is coach, the latter is their floor.

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Fixed it for you!

I going to assume that even if there is a coaching g change, Knowlton will F it up.

BearSD said:

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calumnus said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

The anti-Fox (the guy who can recruit, but can't coach) Haase is out at Furd

There is some possibility Cronin and Enfelt go back to the part of the country they are from. Cronin to Louisville for example.

The Arizona coach gets a raise and extension.

Everyone else is staying put.. No one really wants them, and then comes all the excuses why they won't be fired. Hurley is bailed out by a late win run and good recruiting classes. Boyle had decent seasons and a good recruiting class and basketball needs to be stable, since Buff football is a sheet show. Smith (Utah and WSU) are new and show potential, Tinkle is too expensive after he got a big contact with his elite 8 run, Altman is too old, but does't want to retire on a clunker season. Hopkins had a decent season and recruited a top player, but his seats is warming-up next year. And then there is Fox.

Fox won't get fired because Knowlton dosn't want to admit he made a mistake (Wilner actually said that). Fox's teams are well coached, but lack talent. Cal is one of the worst jobs (inference about recruiting talent?). All around put down of Cal. Thanks Jon.

---

F Wilber. Cuonzo came in and in two years got Cal to a #4 seed, I doubt he would say Tennessee or Missouri are "easier." Braun recruited fairly well and did much better than he later did at Rice. Monty took over a Braun team that finished in second to last, lost its best player, and in year two won the PAC-12 regular season Championship.

There is nothing wrong with Cal other than the fact that we hire lousy basketball coaches. One day (maybe after Knowlton, if we still have a program) we wil hire a coach that can recruit AND is good at coaching an efficient offense and defense, instead of just one or the other (or neither) and then making excuses for them.

---

Agreed. Cuonzo Martin thought he was going to get a quick fix at Mizzou with the Porter family going there with him, but that didn't work out and he hasn't recruited well otherwise, he's 5-13 and in 12th place in the SEC this year.

IMO Braun's recruiting started to wane his last year or two at Cal. Rice is a far more difficult place to recruit to.

For the next Cal coach, it has to start with recruiting. If the coaches can't bring in talent comparable to the top third of the conference, then even the best coaches in basketball couldn't get the W-L record consistently in the top third.

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Players Braun added his last two years:
Ryan Anderson
Patrick Christopher
Jerome Randle
Jamal Boykin (transfer from Duke)
Harper Kamp
Jordan Wilkes
Taylor Harrison
Nikola Knezevic

Those guys are the core of the team that won the PAC-12 Championship under Monty (minus the best bigs, Anderson and Hardin). What was confounding about Braun those last years was his ridiculous lineups and strategy. He had some of the best front court depth ever, but instead went small, finishing in second to last. Braun seemed to think he could play only Hardin or Anderson, but not both. Knezevic should not have started over Randle or even played along side him, he should have strictly been his backup. Viernesal as the starting PF with that roster? Huh?

PtownBear1 said:

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stu said:

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A case could be made that the administration wants to kill off basketball and football. But they could have done that cheaper without hiring Fox and renovating Memorial Stadium.

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Despite the poor results, they've poured in a lot of resources into football so doubt they really want to kill off the program. Basketball though, I wholeheartedly agree. It seems like they just want the program to die before having to deal with actually building the practice facility.

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I hate the narrative that we fail because we don't care or want to fail. We fail because we are incompetent, there is no other reason. If the same resources were put into the right person the basketball team would flourish as it has in the recent past.

sluggo said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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stu said:

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A case could be made that the administration wants to kill off basketball and football. But they could have done that cheaper without hiring Fox and renovating Memorial Stadium.

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Despite the poor results, they've poured in a lot of resources into football so doubt they really want to kill off the program. Basketball though, I wholeheartedly agree. It seems like they just want the program to die before having to deal with actually building the practice facility.

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I hate the narrative that we fail because we don't care or want to fail. We fail because we are incompetent, there is no other reason. If the same resources were put into the right person the basketball team would flourish as it has in the recent past.

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We fail because of 2 HORRIBLE hires.

But that reflects a failure at Cal to really appreciate "who we are" and fail to see how that translates to recruiting.

IN REVENUE SPORTS Cal is a flagship _STATE_ University. It just is. We have NEVER recruited nationally/globally IN REVENUE SPORTS. Rather our best teams have always been based upon a large core of California kids - usually from SOCal since 70% of the population of the state is there. In addition, in the revenue sports many of our kids are from diverse backgrounds, usually middle class, often first or second generation college goers (at least from the professions of their parents and hometowns.)

This is at SUCH variance from the rest of the university and especially the grad programs. WHich attract students from ALL over the world, are often upper middle class with a long history of college going in their families and which live in decidedly upper middle class neighborhoods with good schools. We are not some Furd but neither is Cal U of A or even UC Riverside.

So what happens is that the admin has often tried to push a square peg that would be GREAT as a dean of the chemistry department (if they had that background) into the round hole of our revenue sports. We get guys with Ivy league backgrounds, as if that works when recruiting in Compton. We get folks with ties to Nevada as if that is the same as SoCal because it is in the West. And an administration that believes Cal will "recruit itself" and isn't in the same league as UCLA, or Wisky or Texas or a host of other large Land grant public universities. But to revenue sports atheletes that _IS_ Cals competitive set.

This isn't rocket science. Both Braun and Monty had SoCal ties and could recruit from LA - Ben because he had long standing family connections into the southland and Monty because he had 20+ years prior recruiting in with the Furd.

monty didn't like recruiting, but he had a strong reputation

monty was not a players coach

so what did monty do?

he recognized this and hired coaches to complement his short-comings


fox however did not do this

he retained a coach from the prior staff who is a tough disciplinary coach, and also not a players coach. he also was not a recruiter

he hired a new assistant who also does not have a natural recruiting personality. I was ok with this as he was sold as our int'l recruiter. But besides Lars, he hasn't signed any quality international recruits

he hired the second assistant who appeared to be a good recruiter, but his ties were in the east and midwest


Last year it was clear that recruiting was a problem, and I thought Fox should have replaced a coach with a strong west coast recruiter