bearister said:

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oskidunker said:

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Too slow for Nba. Europe, maybe. Likely he needs another year to develop three point shot since Fox rarely let him take one of which he is capable.

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At his height wouldn't good handles and a Trey be a minimum prerequisite for the NBA?

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No, the NBA of the last 20 years is mostly about defense. There is no way he could guard anyone in the NBA at his size and athleticism. It is not happening for him. Just like when Ivan Rabb came out and I said he would not be an NBA player, too bad it is not the 90s. The Warriors had a player in the 90s named Victor Alexander who resembled Kelly in some ways.

Basketball is played all over the world and even within Europe there are all different levels. The top teams in the EuroLeague are almost NBA level. But levels go down to semi-pro. To say Kelly could play professionally in Europe does not mean much. Could he play on a top European team? Probably not. Could he play in a top European league like Spain? I think so but am not sure. Could he play somewhere in Europe? For sure.

HearstMining said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Most years there is a freshman or two who looks to be special

They have an immediate impact which catches your eye, and grow into an important role early.

Some level out and continue to be a role player, some leave for various reasons, and some continue to grow into a leader of the team and face of the program

Kelly is that player for this team over his four years at Cal

His post play footwork was advanced from day one, enabling him to score over bigger, stronger, longer, more athletic players, shooting at an impressive 55%.

His defense made a major jump from a liability to solid. His poise and confidence grew as did his scoring and rebounding in his soph year

His junior year showed another improvement in his scoring and rebounding, and he became a good defender. However the Covid year hurt his conditioning limiting his explosiveness and minutes

Then in his senior year he put it all together… leadership, scoring over big, long, athletic defenders, strong rebounding and defense and clutch performances.

Throughout it all he was a great teammate, good student and great representative to the University

Thank you Dre for all the blood, sweat and tears you've put in while wearing a Cal jersey

It's been a great run

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I say this as a big Andre fan, but lack of self-discipline hurt his conditioning more than COVID. He was a doughy freshman and made a huge jump in conditioning before his second year so you'd hope he would have wanted to retain that fitness. There was nothing to prevent him from running, buying some weights on Craigslist and using them, eating sensibly, etc. But ya know, they're still kids and self-discipline comes with maturity. Fox shares the blame as he should have been on his butt with weekly phone calls and/or given him a regular workout plan. It's to Andre's credit that he really put it together his final year, until the injury.

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The "conditioning" thing was overblown, a common bias in basketball (worse than other sports, see Moneyball). Since his freshman year, whenever he started and played major minutes he produced. His productivity did not decline over the course of the game. He was just not made the unquestioned starter, and given starter minutes, until his senior year (when he looked the part?). With Bradley's departure he became the #1 option on offense. However, he should have been the starter over Lars, getting major minutes, all along, and when Grant was slumping should have gotten a lot more time at PF (with Lars at center).

I love Andre as a player, but man, someone really should have helped him with his message - will consider returning to Cal while entering portal if I can't get drafted...that's just awful. Gotta know when it's your time, I hope you make the league and if not, make a good career as a pro wherever you can.

na ka menehune e hoopomaikai

sluggo said:

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bearister said:

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oskidunker said:

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Too slow for Nba. Europe, maybe. Likely he needs another year to develop three point shot since Fox rarely let him take one of which he is capable.

---

At his height wouldn't good handles and a Trey be a minimum prerequisite for the NBA?

---

No, the NBA of the last 20 years is mostly about defense. There is no way he could guard anyone in the NBA at his size and athleticism. It is not happening for him. Just like when Ivan Rabb came out and I said he would not be an NBA player, too bad it is not the 90s. The Warriors had a player in the 90s named Victor Alexander who resembled Kelly in some ways.

Basketball is played all over the world and even within Europe there are all different levels. The top teams in the EuroLeague are almost NBA level. But levels go down to semi-pro. To say Kelly could play professionally in Europe does not mean much. Could he play on a top European team? Probably not. Could he play in a top European league like Spain? I think so but am not sure. Could he play somewhere in Europe? For sure.

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Last 10 years I'd say there was also a switch in defensive priorities. It went from being a "lockdown" defender who could guard your position 1 on 1 to prioritizing versatility and help defense. It's basically a requirement for bigs to be able to switch onto wings now. I feel like this coincided sometime around the LeBron heat teams and the shift towards more positionless basketball.

concernedparent said:

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sluggo said:

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bearister said:

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oskidunker said:

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Too slow for Nba. Europe, maybe. Likely he needs another year to develop three point shot since Fox rarely let him take one of which he is capable.

---

At his height wouldn't good handles and a Trey be a minimum prerequisite for the NBA?

---

No, the NBA of the last 20 years is mostly about defense. There is no way he could guard anyone in the NBA at his size and athleticism. It is not happening for him. Just like when Ivan Rabb came out and I said he would not be an NBA player, too bad it is not the 90s. The Warriors had a player in the 90s named Victor Alexander who resembled Kelly in some ways.

Basketball is played all over the world and even within Europe there are all different levels. The top teams in the EuroLeague are almost NBA level. But levels go down to semi-pro. To say Kelly could play professionally in Europe does not mean much. Could he play on a top European team? Probably not. Could he play in a top European league like Spain? I think so but am not sure. Could he play somewhere in Europe? For sure.

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Last 10 years I'd say there was also a switch in defensive priorities. It went from being a "lockdown" defender who could guard your position 1 on 1 to prioritizing versatility and help defense. It's basically a requirement for bigs to be able to switch onto wings now. I feel like this coincided sometime around the LeBron heat teams and the shift towards more positionless basketball.

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I agree. I think the team that really went positionless was the mid-2010 Warriors, with Thompson, Iguodala, Green, Barnes and Livingston. But the idea goes back at least to Pat Riley in the 80s, who talked about having five players who were 6'9''. Which he almost did with Magic, Worthy, AC Green, and some others.

Because of where the NBA is at, the Cal player with the most NBA potential is Kuany, as he has shown the ability to guard almost everyone on the floor. Obviously he needs to get better offensively to have a chance.