eastcoastcal said:

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Not kidding I think we might finish last in the conference next year. At least OSU and Utah pulled in 4 stars/top 100 recruit for the incoming class. We're losing our top producers and replacing them with two unranked players. Our transfer options are really, really bad (the only realistic option just chose St. Bon over us).

This is so pathetic

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eastcoastcal said:

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Not kidding I think we might finish last in the conference next year. At least OSU and Utah pulled in 4 stars/top 100 recruit for the incoming class. We're losing our top producers and replacing them with two unranked players. Our transfer options are really, really bad (the only realistic option just chose St. Bon over us).

This is so pathetic

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stu said:

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I'm not an accurate evaluator of talent but I can look up the coach's record: in 3 seasons T-8, 12, and 10. Using only that I see a 2 in 3 chance of finishing better than last! Makes Knowlton look smarter than I had thought.

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CalLifer said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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Not kidding I think we might finish last in the conference next year. At least OSU and Utah pulled in 4 stars/top 100 recruit for the incoming class. We're losing our top producers and replacing them with two unranked players. Our transfer options are really, really bad (the only realistic option just chose St. Bon over us).

This is so pathetic

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I would really like someone to use the facts (i.e. returning talent, outgoing talent, incoming talent, coach's history, etc) to try to and make a case for Cal not finishing last.

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CalLifer said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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Not kidding I think we might finish last in the conference next year. At least OSU and Utah pulled in 4 stars/top 100 recruit for the incoming class. We're losing our top producers and replacing them with two unranked players. Our transfer options are really, really bad (the only realistic option just chose St. Bon over us).

This is so pathetic

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I would really like someone to use the facts (i.e. returning talent, outgoing talent, incoming talent, coach's history, etc) to try to and make a case for Cal not finishing last.

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CalLifer said:

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calumnus said:

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CalLifer said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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Not kidding I think we might finish last in the conference next year. At least OSU and Utah pulled in 4 stars/top 100 recruit for the incoming class. We're losing our top producers and replacing them with two unranked players. Our transfer options are really, really bad (the only realistic option just chose St. Bon over us).

This is so pathetic

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I would really like someone to use the facts (i.e. returning talent, outgoing talent, incoming talent, coach's history, etc) to try to and make a case for Cal not finishing last.

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"Cal will be a senior laden team featuring players that have been in Fox's system for 4 years and finally understand the intricacies and subtleties of his offense. Instead of a single scorer we will have 12 players each knowing their role and each averaging 6 ppg."

Cal will be pathetic, worse than the last few years. I can't argue anything else. However, this past season OSU and Utah were worse than Cal, OSU catastrophically so. They are recruiting better than Cal and Tinkle had a great season only the year before, so odds are they finish higher than Cal, but it is always possible that someone has a worse season than we do and we finish 11th.

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Thanks for giving it the old college try, calumnus . Basically, any argument for Cal avoiding last place is to point out that we didn't finish last last season but then totally ignore the talent leaving and coming in to the teams below (and above) us.

Is it possible that we don't finish last next season? Yes, anything is possible. However, would any reasonable projection heading into next year really support that possibility? No, I don't think it would.

And it's pretty fantastic that going into year 4 of the Fox tenure, the biggest topic of discussion on the board is whether we will be able to avoid last place. Fox has really managed to fulfill the vision of turning the program around that Knowlton envisioned when hiring him.

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4thGenCal said:

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CalLifer said:

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calumnus said:

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CalLifer said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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Not kidding I think we might finish last in the conference next year. At least OSU and Utah pulled in 4 stars/top 100 recruit for the incoming class. We're losing our top producers and replacing them with two unranked players. Our transfer options are really, really bad (the only realistic option just chose St. Bon over us).

This is so pathetic

---

I would really like someone to use the facts (i.e. returning talent, outgoing talent, incoming talent, coach's history, etc) to try to and make a case for Cal not finishing last.

---

"Cal will be a senior laden team featuring players that have been in Fox's system for 4 years and finally understand the intricacies and subtleties of his offense. Instead of a single scorer we will have 12 players each knowing their role and each averaging 6 ppg."

Cal will be pathetic, worse than the last few years. I can't argue anything else. However, this past season OSU and Utah were worse than Cal, OSU catastrophically so. They are recruiting better than Cal and Tinkle had a great season only the year before, so odds are they finish higher than Cal, but it is always possible that someone has a worse season than we do and we finish 11th.

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Thanks for giving it the old college try, calumnus . Basically, any argument for Cal avoiding last place is to point out that we didn't finish last last season but then totally ignore the talent leaving and coming in to the teams below (and above) us.

Is it possible that we don't finish last next season? Yes, anything is possible. However, would any reasonable projection heading into next year really support that possibility? No, I don't think it would.

And it's pretty fantastic that going into year 4 of the Fox tenure, the biggest topic of discussion on the board is whether we will be able to avoid last place. Fox has really managed to fulfill the vision of turning the program around that Knowlton envisioned when hiring him.

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By the end of May - a clear/closer to accurate projection should be telling. We are splitting outcomes of terrible/11/12 finish to possibly higher (8-10th) "if" point guard coming in is good, Kelly returns, Lars and Sam continue to improve and JB/JC are completely injury free and can perform to their capabilities. These scenario's are possible, yet everything has to occur. JB battled a knee meniscus issue all season and just gutted it out as best he could, before being shut down at the end. His post season surgery went well and when pain free can be the player the team desperately needs. Then again, I am a half glass full guy.

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sluggo said:

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4thGenCal said:

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CalLifer said:

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calumnus said:

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CalLifer said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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Not kidding I think we might finish last in the conference next year. At least OSU and Utah pulled in 4 stars/top 100 recruit for the incoming class. We're losing our top producers and replacing them with two unranked players. Our transfer options are really, really bad (the only realistic option just chose St. Bon over us).

This is so pathetic

---

I would really like someone to use the facts (i.e. returning talent, outgoing talent, incoming talent, coach's history, etc) to try to and make a case for Cal not finishing last.

---

"Cal will be a senior laden team featuring players that have been in Fox's system for 4 years and finally understand the intricacies and subtleties of his offense. Instead of a single scorer we will have 12 players each knowing their role and each averaging 6 ppg."

Cal will be pathetic, worse than the last few years. I can't argue anything else. However, this past season OSU and Utah were worse than Cal, OSU catastrophically so. They are recruiting better than Cal and Tinkle had a great season only the year before, so odds are they finish higher than Cal, but it is always possible that someone has a worse season than we do and we finish 11th.

---

Thanks for giving it the old college try, calumnus . Basically, any argument for Cal avoiding last place is to point out that we didn't finish last last season but then totally ignore the talent leaving and coming in to the teams below (and above) us.

Is it possible that we don't finish last next season? Yes, anything is possible. However, would any reasonable projection heading into next year really support that possibility? No, I don't think it would.

And it's pretty fantastic that going into year 4 of the Fox tenure, the biggest topic of discussion on the board is whether we will be able to avoid last place. Fox has really managed to fulfill the vision of turning the program around that Knowlton envisioned when hiring him.

---

By the end of May - a clear/closer to accurate projection should be telling. We are splitting outcomes of terrible/11/12 finish to possibly higher (8-10th) "if" point guard coming in is good, Kelly returns, Lars and Sam continue to improve and JB/JC are completely injury free and can perform to their capabilities. These scenario's are possible, yet everything has to occur. JB battled a knee meniscus issue all season and just gutted it out as best he could, before being shut down at the end. His post season surgery went well and when pain free can be the player the team desperately needs. Then again, I am a half glass full guy.

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I am a pessimist but I think your positive scenario is possible, especially if Kelly comes back. But wouldn't Kelly take a scholarship? And wouldn't that preclude a point guard transfer?

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HoopDreams said:

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Not pretty for Cal. We lose our best players, and have only two NR entering and no transfer in's

Some teams also lose a lot, but have talent coming in via top rated recruits and/or transfers (e.g. ASU, OSU)

interesting transfer: Starter Williams WSU > UW (ouch!)


https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33803785/ncaa-division-men-college-basketball-rosters-departures-newcomers-2022-23#Pac12

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4thGenCal said:

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sluggo said:

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4thGenCal said:

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CalLifer said:

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calumnus said:

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CalLifer said:

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

Not kidding I think we might finish last in the conference next year. At least OSU and Utah pulled in 4 stars/top 100 recruit for the incoming class. We're losing our top producers and replacing them with two unranked players. Our transfer options are really, really bad (the only realistic option just chose St. Bon over us).

This is so pathetic

---

I would really like someone to use the facts (i.e. returning talent, outgoing talent, incoming talent, coach's history, etc) to try to and make a case for Cal not finishing last.

---

"Cal will be a senior laden team featuring players that have been in Fox's system for 4 years and finally understand the intricacies and subtleties of his offense. Instead of a single scorer we will have 12 players each knowing their role and each averaging 6 ppg."

Cal will be pathetic, worse than the last few years. I can't argue anything else. However, this past season OSU and Utah were worse than Cal, OSU catastrophically so. They are recruiting better than Cal and Tinkle had a great season only the year before, so odds are they finish higher than Cal, but it is always possible that someone has a worse season than we do and we finish 11th.

---

Thanks for giving it the old college try, calumnus . Basically, any argument for Cal avoiding last place is to point out that we didn't finish last last season but then totally ignore the talent leaving and coming in to the teams below (and above) us.

Is it possible that we don't finish last next season? Yes, anything is possible. However, would any reasonable projection heading into next year really support that possibility? No, I don't think it would.

And it's pretty fantastic that going into year 4 of the Fox tenure, the biggest topic of discussion on the board is whether we will be able to avoid last place. Fox has really managed to fulfill the vision of turning the program around that Knowlton envisioned when hiring him.

---

By the end of May - a clear/closer to accurate projection should be telling. We are splitting outcomes of terrible/11/12 finish to possibly higher (8-10th) "if" point guard coming in is good, Kelly returns, Lars and Sam continue to improve and JB/JC are completely injury free and can perform to their capabilities. These scenario's are possible, yet everything has to occur. JB battled a knee meniscus issue all season and just gutted it out as best he could, before being shut down at the end. His post season surgery went well and when pain free can be the player the team desperately needs. Then again, I am a half glass full guy.

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I am a pessimist but I think your positive scenario is possible, especially if Kelly comes back. But wouldn't Kelly take a scholarship? And wouldn't that preclude a point guard transfer?

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If Kelly comes back - he does take one of the thirteen total scholarships. Per Coach Fox, he is close to a point guard signee and that would be the last available scholarship to give(pending the decision of AK). Kelly coming back is very iffy and still an uphill battle - he is trusting of Fox and they have a good relationship. Fox went to bat for him to get HM all Pac12. But the losing culture, does the roster have it to turn around the record this upcoming season and is he ok with another year in Berkeley.? ( He likes to chill away from Berkeley when he has the opportunity to do so.)

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sluggo said:

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4thGenCal said:

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sluggo said:

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4thGenCal said:

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CalLifer said:

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calumnus said:

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CalLifer said:

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eastcoastcal said:

---

Not kidding I think we might finish last in the conference next year. At least OSU and Utah pulled in 4 stars/top 100 recruit for the incoming class. We're losing our top producers and replacing them with two unranked players. Our transfer options are really, really bad (the only realistic option just chose St. Bon over us).

This is so pathetic

---

I would really like someone to use the facts (i.e. returning talent, outgoing talent, incoming talent, coach's history, etc) to try to and make a case for Cal not finishing last.

---

"Cal will be a senior laden team featuring players that have been in Fox's system for 4 years and finally understand the intricacies and subtleties of his offense. Instead of a single scorer we will have 12 players each knowing their role and each averaging 6 ppg."

Cal will be pathetic, worse than the last few years. I can't argue anything else. However, this past season OSU and Utah were worse than Cal, OSU catastrophically so. They are recruiting better than Cal and Tinkle had a great season only the year before, so odds are they finish higher than Cal, but it is always possible that someone has a worse season than we do and we finish 11th.

---

Thanks for giving it the old college try, calumnus . Basically, any argument for Cal avoiding last place is to point out that we didn't finish last last season but then totally ignore the talent leaving and coming in to the teams below (and above) us.

Is it possible that we don't finish last next season? Yes, anything is possible. However, would any reasonable projection heading into next year really support that possibility? No, I don't think it would.

And it's pretty fantastic that going into year 4 of the Fox tenure, the biggest topic of discussion on the board is whether we will be able to avoid last place. Fox has really managed to fulfill the vision of turning the program around that Knowlton envisioned when hiring him.

---

By the end of May - a clear/closer to accurate projection should be telling. We are splitting outcomes of terrible/11/12 finish to possibly higher (8-10th) "if" point guard coming in is good, Kelly returns, Lars and Sam continue to improve and JB/JC are completely injury free and can perform to their capabilities. These scenario's are possible, yet everything has to occur. JB battled a knee meniscus issue all season and just gutted it out as best he could, before being shut down at the end. His post season surgery went well and when pain free can be the player the team desperately needs. Then again, I am a half glass full guy.

---

I am a pessimist but I think your positive scenario is possible, especially if Kelly comes back. But wouldn't Kelly take a scholarship? And wouldn't that preclude a point guard transfer?

---

If Kelly comes back - he does take one of the thirteen total scholarships. Per Coach Fox, he is close to a point guard signee and that would be the last available scholarship to give(pending the decision of AK). Kelly coming back is very iffy and still an uphill battle - he is trusting of Fox and they have a good relationship. Fox went to bat for him to get HM all Pac12. But the losing culture, does the roster have it to turn around the record this upcoming season and is he ok with another year in Berkeley.? ( He likes to chill away from Berkeley when he has the opportunity to do so.)

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So your rosy scenario of Kelly plus a point guard is not possible unless there is further attrition? I think Kelly is better than a transfer, but more is needed.

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calumnus said:

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sluggo said:

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4thGenCal said:

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sluggo said:

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4thGenCal said:

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CalLifer said:

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calumnus said:

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CalLifer said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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Not kidding I think we might finish last in the conference next year. At least OSU and Utah pulled in 4 stars/top 100 recruit for the incoming class. We're losing our top producers and replacing them with two unranked players. Our transfer options are really, really bad (the only realistic option just chose St. Bon over us).

This is so pathetic

---

I would really like someone to use the facts (i.e. returning talent, outgoing talent, incoming talent, coach's history, etc) to try to and make a case for Cal not finishing last.

---

"Cal will be a senior laden team featuring players that have been in Fox's system for 4 years and finally understand the intricacies and subtleties of his offense. Instead of a single scorer we will have 12 players each knowing their role and each averaging 6 ppg."

Cal will be pathetic, worse than the last few years. I can't argue anything else. However, this past season OSU and Utah were worse than Cal, OSU catastrophically so. They are recruiting better than Cal and Tinkle had a great season only the year before, so odds are they finish higher than Cal, but it is always possible that someone has a worse season than we do and we finish 11th.

---

Thanks for giving it the old college try, calumnus . Basically, any argument for Cal avoiding last place is to point out that we didn't finish last last season but then totally ignore the talent leaving and coming in to the teams below (and above) us.

Is it possible that we don't finish last next season? Yes, anything is possible. However, would any reasonable projection heading into next year really support that possibility? No, I don't think it would.

And it's pretty fantastic that going into year 4 of the Fox tenure, the biggest topic of discussion on the board is whether we will be able to avoid last place. Fox has really managed to fulfill the vision of turning the program around that Knowlton envisioned when hiring him.

---

By the end of May - a clear/closer to accurate projection should be telling. We are splitting outcomes of terrible/11/12 finish to possibly higher (8-10th) "if" point guard coming in is good, Kelly returns, Lars and Sam continue to improve and JB/JC are completely injury free and can perform to their capabilities. These scenario's are possible, yet everything has to occur. JB battled a knee meniscus issue all season and just gutted it out as best he could, before being shut down at the end. His post season surgery went well and when pain free can be the player the team desperately needs. Then again, I am a half glass full guy.

---

I am a pessimist but I think your positive scenario is possible, especially if Kelly comes back. But wouldn't Kelly take a scholarship? And wouldn't that preclude a point guard transfer?

---

If Kelly comes back - he does take one of the thirteen total scholarships. Per Coach Fox, he is close to a point guard signee and that would be the last available scholarship to give(pending the decision of AK). Kelly coming back is very iffy and still an uphill battle - he is trusting of Fox and they have a good relationship. Fox went to bat for him to get HM all Pac12. But the losing culture, does the roster have it to turn around the record this upcoming season and is he ok with another year in Berkeley.? ( He likes to chill away from Berkeley when he has the opportunity to do so.)

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So your rosy scenario of Kelly plus a point guard is not possible unless there is further attrition? I think Kelly is better than a transfer, but more is needed.

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No, I think he is saying that if Kelly leaves we have two scholarships to give, if he stays we have one.

Klonaras and Thorpe leaving make the above possible.

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