stu said:

---

My top priority is integrity. An absolute must.

Then people skills for recruiting, motivating fans to attend, working with around the A.D., etc.

Then organizational skills, technical knowledge, work ethic.

And at Cal a willingness to rebuild a program and probably start off at a relatively low salary.

Tall order. I don't have any names to suggest.

---

• Integrity - agree! That used to eliminate about half the top candidates, but under new rules it probably only eliminates 10%
• Interpersonal skills. Probably one of the few things a program CAN'T work around with a competent assistant.
• Skills,Knowledge, Work Ethic - pretty much a pre-requisite anyway. But until we get the program back on track, we don't need someone SPECIAL in this regard. Talent and easy will suffice. Assistants can help with lots of this. Having three assistants that duplicate the Head Coach does NOT help.
• Rebuilding. Unfortunately, the admin doesn't support MBB, so anyone they hire will FEEL underpaid.

BeachedBear said:

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stu said:

---

My top priority is integrity. An absolute must.

Then people skills for recruiting, motivating fans to attend, working with around the A.D., etc.

Then organizational skills, technical knowledge, work ethic.

And at Cal a willingness to rebuild a program and probably start off at a relatively low salary.

Tall order. I don't have any names to suggest.

---

I think Stu has provided a good list. I posted over 50 names at the end of last season many of which are still available. Some additional commentary:

• Integrity - agree! That used to eliminate about half the top candidates, but under new rules it probably only eliminates 10%
• Interpersonal skills. Probably one of the few things a program CAN'T work around with a competent assistant.
• Skills,Knowledge, Work Ethic - pretty much a pre-requisite anyway. But until we get the program back on track, we don't need someone SPECIAL in this regard. Talent and easy will suffice. Assistants can help with lots of this. Having three assistants that duplicate the Head Coach does NOT help.
• Rebuilding. Unfortunately, the admin doesn't support MBB, so anyone they hire will FEEL underpaid.

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

I know the forum did one of these a while back, but since then a lot of our candidates were taken. Was hoping anyone could help think of any great hires that could rebound this program. For arguments' sake, lets assume this hire would take place after a poor finish this season.

Ideally what would candidates possess? Recruiting acumen certainly. It's pretty clear whoever our coach is HAS to recruit at a much, much higher level. For me, I also think being an enthusiastic rep of Cal basketball (like musselman is for arkansas) would be a great departure from Fox. Additionally, frequent updates and media availability would be lovely.

What do you guys think?

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socaltownie said:

---

"Integrity" - What does this mean in the NIL era? I mean yes, you should not do anything ILLEGAL but the NCAA has essentially surrender the field when it comes to enforcement EXCEPT in on things that are really administrative paperwork issues (like holding one too many recruiting calls or not reporting buying a recruit lunch).

I want, in order,

1) An African American coach or someone who has shown in their career the ability to help guide often "first in family to college" young african american males thorugh both matriculation and, should their ability allow, moving from college to the NBA. At a school where less than 5% of the student body is AA and so many of them are scholarship athletes this is imperative.

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

BeachedBear said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

"Integrity" - What does this mean in the NIL era? I mean yes, you should not do anything ILLEGAL but the NCAA has essentially surrender the field when it comes to enforcement EXCEPT in on things that are really administrative paperwork issues (like holding one too many recruiting calls or not reporting buying a recruit lunch).

I want, in order,

1) An African American coach or someone who has shown in their career the ability to help guide often "first in family to college" young african american males thorugh both matriculation and, should their ability allow, moving from college to the NBA. At a school where less than 5% of the student body is AA and so many of them are scholarship athletes this is imperative.

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

The NIL issue should actually be easier for the coach, since much of the fundraising, negotiating, paying can be outsourced to alumni and others. I mean - the Legends should be appointing a designated NIL merchant to the MBB team IMMEDIATELY!!!

I also like your three points - absolutely agree. Braun may have been of fair complexion, but he had demonstrated the abilities you mentioned. Fox, Campy, even Monty - not so much.

---

socaltownie said:

---

"Integrity" - What does this mean in the NIL era? I mean yes, you should not do anything ILLEGAL but the NCAA has essentially surrender the field when it comes to enforcement EXCEPT in on things that are really administrative paperwork issues (like holding one too many recruiting calls or not reporting buying a recruit lunch).

I want, in order,

1) An African American coach or someone who has shown in their career the ability to help guide often "first in family to college" young african american males thorugh both matriculation and, should their ability allow, moving from college to the NBA. At a school where less than 5% of the student body is AA and so many of them are scholarship athletes this is imperative.

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

"Integrity" - What does this mean in the NIL era? I mean yes, you should not do anything ILLEGAL but the NCAA has essentially surrender the field when it comes to enforcement EXCEPT in on things that are really administrative paperwork issues (like holding one too many recruiting calls or not reporting buying a recruit lunch).

I want, in order,

1) An African American coach or someone who has shown in their career the ability to help guide often "first in family to college" young african american males thorugh both matriculation and, should their ability allow, moving from college to the NBA. At a school where less than 5% of the student body is AA and so many of them are scholarship athletes this is imperative.

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

The NIL issue should actually be easier for the coach, since much of the fundraising, negotiating, paying can be outsourced to alumni and others. I mean - the Legends should be appointing a designated NIL merchant to the MBB team IMMEDIATELY!!!

I also like your three points - absolutely agree. Braun may have been of fair complexion, but he had demonstrated the abilities you mentioned. Fox, Campy, even Monty - not so much.

---

Monty had Travis who was the lead recruiter and a young African American mentor (how could you not like or respect Travis) -- landed Crabbe, Solomon, and Mathews and brought Cobbs from Minnesota. Not hiring Travis after Cuonzo set us back a decade at least.

---

HearstMining said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

"Integrity" - What does this mean in the NIL era? I mean yes, you should not do anything ILLEGAL but the NCAA has essentially surrender the field when it comes to enforcement EXCEPT in on things that are really administrative paperwork issues (like holding one too many recruiting calls or not reporting buying a recruit lunch).

I want, in order,

1) An African American coach or someone who has shown in their career the ability to help guide often "first in family to college" young african american males thorugh both matriculation and, should their ability allow, moving from college to the NBA. At a school where less than 5% of the student body is AA and so many of them are scholarship athletes this is imperative.

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

In spite of my hyper-cynical outburst towards the top of this thread, I like this list! I'd be willing to bend on #2 if the coach could guarantee to hire one or two assistants with West Coast chops. Regarding #4, does anybody really have a track record working the NIL deal yet? I guess for any coach who has already been channeling $$$ to players under the table, NIL is a breeze. Again, good list!

---

Congratulations to Money Williams on his commitment to Montana!! @mxney___ @ArsenalAAU @MoreRepsKP @Hump_Jackson @VerbalCommits pic.twitter.com/1aftzlpJku

— SIMPLY BASKETBALL (@simplyy_bball) September 6, 2022

socaltownie said:

---

...

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

stu said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

...

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

I like your 2) and 3) because they relate to Cal specifically.

Regarding NIL, I'm not sure how much the coach would be involved as opposed to donors or other non-employees.

---

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

...

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

I like your 2) and 3) because they relate to Cal specifically.

Regarding NIL, I'm not sure how much the coach would be involved as opposed to donors or other non-employees.

---

The NIL offer from the donors needs to be communicated to the recruit that the coach wants. The coach needs to know what the NIL budget is. So there needs to be some kind of coordination and communication.

---

socaltownie said:

---

"Integrity" - What does this mean in the NIL era? I mean yes, you should not do anything ILLEGAL but the NCAA has essentially surrender the field when it comes to enforcement EXCEPT in on things that are really administrative paperwork issues (like holding one too many recruiting calls or not reporting buying a recruit lunch).

I want, in order,

1) An African American coach or someone who has shown in their career the ability to help guide often "first in family to college" young african american males thorugh both matriculation and, should their ability allow, moving from college to the NBA. At a school where less than 5% of the student body is AA and so many of them are scholarship athletes this is imperative.

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

Bobodeluxe said:

---

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

...

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

I like your 2) and 3) because they relate to Cal specifically.

Regarding NIL, I'm not sure how much the coach would be involved as opposed to donors or other non-employees.

---

The NIL offer from the donors needs to be communicated to the recruit that the coach wants. The coach needs to know what the NIL budget is. So there needs to be some kind of coordination and communication.

---

Wait, are you suggesting corrupting the function of the NIL process?

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calumnus said:

---

Bobodeluxe said:

---

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

...

2) West Coast Roots - Cal has never (and will never) recruit fully nationally for SPORTS (again, PLEASE for the love of all that is holy do not conflate UCB undergraduate admissions with Cal revenue sports recruiting). Our best football and basektball teams have always been built on a core of Californian (and really southern Californian) kids. A coach who does not know the top HS and AAU coaches in the greater LA region should be immediately rejected. Yes, he "can learn" but getting up to speed quickly is a tall order.

3) Abiliyt to work the inside game. UC experience is userful. Not as a student but as an employee. You have to understand what the faculty senate is and how to navigate through the politics. Basically what will give the AD a headache and what you can (and cannot) do. THis is mostly to avoid frustration - where you have a candidate like SOnny Dykes who finds out after the fact how the UC works.

4) Proven abiliyt to work the NIL game. New world folks. Go big or go home.

---

I like your 2) and 3) because they relate to Cal specifically.

Regarding NIL, I'm not sure how much the coach would be involved as opposed to donors or other non-employees.

---

The NIL offer from the donors needs to be communicated to the recruit that the coach wants. The coach needs to know what the NIL budget is. So there needs to be some kind of coordination and communication.

---

Wait, are you suggesting corrupting the function of the NIL process?

---

Lol. It can be done directly or through the recruiting websites/reporting.

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dimitrig said:

---

What about Rod Palmer, currently an assistant at UCLA?

He has never been a head coach, but he was an assistant under some pretty good ones.

He is a strong recruiter and obviously already familiar with UC.

---

calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

What about Rod Palmer, currently an assistant at UCLA?

He has never been a head coach, but he was an assistant under some pretty good ones.

He is a strong recruiter and obviously already familiar with UC.

---

I don't know enough about his personally and how he would be as a HC, but honestly Wyking Jones had a MUCH better resume and also knew UC and Cal specifically.

However, Palmer was clearly a solid pickup for Cronin when he came out West to help recruit SoCal.

In general, I'd rather hire a successful up and coming HC than an assistant at a major program. West Coast ties are good, Cal ties are great.

---

dimitrig said:

---

calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

What about Rod Palmer, currently an assistant at UCLA?

He has never been a head coach, but he was an assistant under some pretty good ones.

He is a strong recruiter and obviously already familiar with UC.

---

I don't know enough about his personally and how he would be as a HC, but honestly Wyking Jones had a MUCH better resume and also knew UC and Cal specifically.

However, Palmer was clearly a solid pickup for Cronin when he came out West to help recruit SoCal.

In general, I'd rather hire a successful up and coming HC than an assistant at a major program. West Coast ties are good, Cal ties are great.

---

I think Jones was a pretty good hire. He just didn't pan out, but like you said he had a pretty good pedigree and was familiar with Cal.

The problem with trying to hire a successful head coach is that there would have to be a big financial benefit to coming to Cal. That means we need to be looking at head coaches in small conferences.

If we also want West Coast ties that means we are pretty much limited to the head coaches for the Big West, Mountain West, or WCC

That is a pretty small list unless there are a lot of assistant coaches from out West that are now head coaches back East somewhere.

If you want an African-American coach the list is even smaller, but I am not sure that's a necessary requirement.

---

dimitrig said:

---

calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

What about Rod Palmer, currently an assistant at UCLA?

He has never been a head coach, but he was an assistant under some pretty good ones.

He is a strong recruiter and obviously already familiar with UC.

---

I don't know enough about his personally and how he would be as a HC, but honestly Wyking Jones had a MUCH better resume and also knew UC and Cal specifically.

However, Palmer was clearly a solid pickup for Cronin when he came out West to help recruit SoCal.

In general, I'd rather hire a successful up and coming HC than an assistant at a major program. West Coast ties are good, Cal ties are great.

---

I think Jones was a pretty good hire. He just didn't pan out, but like you said he had a pretty good pedigree and was familiar with Cal.

The problem with trying to hire a successful head coach is that there would have to be a big financial benefit to coming to Cal. That means we need to be looking at head coaches in small conferences.

If we also want West Coast ties that means we are pretty much limited to the head coaches for the Big West, Mountain West, or WCC

That is a pretty small list unless there are a lot of assistant coaches from out West that are now head coaches back East somewhere.

If you want an African-American coach the list is even smaller, but I am not sure that's a necessary requirement.

---

HKBear97! said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

What about Rod Palmer, currently an assistant at UCLA?

He has never been a head coach, but he was an assistant under some pretty good ones.

He is a strong recruiter and obviously already familiar with UC.

---

I don't know enough about his personally and how he would be as a HC, but honestly Wyking Jones had a MUCH better resume and also knew UC and Cal specifically.

However, Palmer was clearly a solid pickup for Cronin when he came out West to help recruit SoCal.

In general, I'd rather hire a successful up and coming HC than an assistant at a major program. West Coast ties are good, Cal ties are great.

---

I think Jones was a pretty good hire. He just didn't pan out, but like you said he had a pretty good pedigree and was familiar with Cal.

The problem with trying to hire a successful head coach is that there would have to be a big financial benefit to coming to Cal. That means we need to be looking at head coaches in small conferences.

If we also want West Coast ties that means we are pretty much limited to the head coaches for the Big West, Mountain West, or WCC

That is a pretty small list unless there are a lot of assistant coaches from out West that are now head coaches back East somewhere.

If you want an African-American coach the list is even smaller, but I am not sure that's a necessary requirement.

---

Sorry, I struggle to understand how anyone thought Jones was a good hire. He was in the coaching ranks for twenty years without ever being a head coach and actually wasn't even an assistant head coach at any stop. He was on no coaching lists and given the recent success under Martin AND the Missouri buyout money Cal had in hand, a terrible hire to go with. The results were entirely predictable.

---

calumnus said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

What about Rod Palmer, currently an assistant at UCLA?

He has never been a head coach, but he was an assistant under some pretty good ones.

He is a strong recruiter and obviously already familiar with UC.

---

I don't know enough about his personally and how he would be as a HC, but honestly Wyking Jones had a MUCH better resume and also knew UC and Cal specifically.

However, Palmer was clearly a solid pickup for Cronin when he came out West to help recruit SoCal.

In general, I'd rather hire a successful up and coming HC than an assistant at a major program. West Coast ties are good, Cal ties are great.

---

I think Jones was a pretty good hire. He just didn't pan out, but like you said he had a pretty good pedigree and was familiar with Cal.

The problem with trying to hire a successful head coach is that there would have to be a big financial benefit to coming to Cal. That means we need to be looking at head coaches in small conferences.

If we also want West Coast ties that means we are pretty much limited to the head coaches for the Big West, Mountain West, or WCC

That is a pretty small list unless there are a lot of assistant coaches from out West that are now head coaches back East somewhere.

If you want an African-American coach the list is even smaller, but I am not sure that's a necessary requirement.

---

Sorry, I struggle to understand how anyone thought Jones was a good hire. He was in the coaching ranks for twenty years without ever being a head coach and actually wasn't even an assistant head coach at any stop. He was on no coaching lists and given the recent success under Martin AND the Missouri buyout money Cal had in hand, a terrible hire to go with. The results were entirely predictable.

---

Look at Palmer's resume. Jones' was the same but much better. If Jones was a bad hire based on resume, then Palmer is worse. But then so was Wilcox in football.

However, if you are consistently an assistant to Hall of Fame coaches there is a reason you are not "promoted" to head coach. You are not taking that guys job. You might be a good HC if you give it a try or get a chance. Or you might not. It is not a "bad" is is no info.

That is why I prefer hiring HCs who are up and comers, you have positive indication they are good HCs. That is why Troy Taylor gave up being a P5 OC to become a FCS HC. To prove himself. As a HC. He has already been a P5 OC. You want to see how a guy handles being in charge, both in basketball and football.

---

calumnus said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

What about Rod Palmer, currently an assistant at UCLA?

He has never been a head coach, but he was an assistant under some pretty good ones.

He is a strong recruiter and obviously already familiar with UC.

---

I don't know enough about his personally and how he would be as a HC, but honestly Wyking Jones had a MUCH better resume and also knew UC and Cal specifically.

However, Palmer was clearly a solid pickup for Cronin when he came out West to help recruit SoCal.

In general, I'd rather hire a successful up and coming HC than an assistant at a major program. West Coast ties are good, Cal ties are great.

---

I think Jones was a pretty good hire. He just didn't pan out, but like you said he had a pretty good pedigree and was familiar with Cal.

The problem with trying to hire a successful head coach is that there would have to be a big financial benefit to coming to Cal. That means we need to be looking at head coaches in small conferences.

If we also want West Coast ties that means we are pretty much limited to the head coaches for the Big West, Mountain West, or WCC

That is a pretty small list unless there are a lot of assistant coaches from out West that are now head coaches back East somewhere.

If you want an African-American coach the list is even smaller, but I am not sure that's a necessary requirement.

---

Sorry, I struggle to understand how anyone thought Jones was a good hire. He was in the coaching ranks for twenty years without ever being a head coach and actually wasn't even an assistant head coach at any stop. He was on no coaching lists and given the recent success under Martin AND the Missouri buyout money Cal had in hand, a terrible hire to go with. The results were entirely predictable.

---

Look at Palmer's resume. Jones' was the same but much better. If Jones was a bad hire based on resume, then Palmer is worse. But then so was Wilcox in football.

However, if you are consistently an assistant to Hall of Fame coaches there is a reason you are not "promoted" to head coach. You are not taking that guys job. You might be a good HC if you give it a try or get a chance. Or you might not. It is not a "bad" is is no info.

That is why I prefer hiring HCs who are up and comers, you have positive indication they are good HCs. That is why Troy Taylor gave up being a P5 OC to become a FCS HC. To prove himself. As a HC. He has already been a P5 OC. You want to see how a guy handles being in charge, both in basketball and football.

---

dimitrig said:

---

calumnus said:

---

HKBear97! said:

---

dimitrig said:

---

calumnus said:

---

dimitrig said:

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What about Rod Palmer, currently an assistant at UCLA?

He has never been a head coach, but he was an assistant under some pretty good ones.

He is a strong recruiter and obviously already familiar with UC.

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I don't know enough about his personally and how he would be as a HC, but honestly Wyking Jones had a MUCH better resume and also knew UC and Cal specifically.

However, Palmer was clearly a solid pickup for Cronin when he came out West to help recruit SoCal.

In general, I'd rather hire a successful up and coming HC than an assistant at a major program. West Coast ties are good, Cal ties are great.

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I think Jones was a pretty good hire. He just didn't pan out, but like you said he had a pretty good pedigree and was familiar with Cal.

The problem with trying to hire a successful head coach is that there would have to be a big financial benefit to coming to Cal. That means we need to be looking at head coaches in small conferences.

If we also want West Coast ties that means we are pretty much limited to the head coaches for the Big West, Mountain West, or WCC

That is a pretty small list unless there are a lot of assistant coaches from out West that are now head coaches back East somewhere.

If you want an African-American coach the list is even smaller, but I am not sure that's a necessary requirement.

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Sorry, I struggle to understand how anyone thought Jones was a good hire. He was in the coaching ranks for twenty years without ever being a head coach and actually wasn't even an assistant head coach at any stop. He was on no coaching lists and given the recent success under Martin AND the Missouri buyout money Cal had in hand, a terrible hire to go with. The results were entirely predictable.

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Look at Palmer's resume. Jones' was the same but much better. If Jones was a bad hire based on resume, then Palmer is worse. But then so was Wilcox in football.

However, if you are consistently an assistant to Hall of Fame coaches there is a reason you are not "promoted" to head coach. You are not taking that guys job. You might be a good HC if you give it a try or get a chance. Or you might not. It is not a "bad" is is no info.

That is why I prefer hiring HCs who are up and comers, you have positive indication they are good HCs. That is why Troy Taylor gave up being a P5 OC to become a FCS HC. To prove himself. As a HC. He has already been a P5 OC. You want to see how a guy handles being in charge, both in basketball and football.

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Exactly. Jones was an assistant to some very good coaches and was known as a recruiter with West Coast ties. He pretty much checked off all the boxes outlined above including being African-American and being familiar with UC. I think people were hoping we'd land a proven coach after Cuonzo left, but it wasn't absurd to give Wyking a shot.

If you had asked me to choose between Wyking and Fox at the time I would have gone with Wyking and I still think we might have been better off with Wyking even in hindsight.

Should we have hired Gates or Legans or Musselman or Decuire or even Kidd instead? Probably, but the Jones hire wasn't as bad at the time as it proved to be later. I don't think anyone expected him to go 5-31 in conference and if you say you did you are not being honest about it. He failed spectacularly, but you are letting hindsight drive your opinion of the hiring.

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HKBear97! said:

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dimitrig said:

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calumnus said:

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HKBear97! said:

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dimitrig said:

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calumnus said:

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dimitrig said:

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What about Rod Palmer, currently an assistant at UCLA?

He has never been a head coach, but he was an assistant under some pretty good ones.

He is a strong recruiter and obviously already familiar with UC.

---

I don't know enough about his personally and how he would be as a HC, but honestly Wyking Jones had a MUCH better resume and also knew UC and Cal specifically.

However, Palmer was clearly a solid pickup for Cronin when he came out West to help recruit SoCal.

In general, I'd rather hire a successful up and coming HC than an assistant at a major program. West Coast ties are good, Cal ties are great.

---

I think Jones was a pretty good hire. He just didn't pan out, but like you said he had a pretty good pedigree and was familiar with Cal.

The problem with trying to hire a successful head coach is that there would have to be a big financial benefit to coming to Cal. That means we need to be looking at head coaches in small conferences.

If we also want West Coast ties that means we are pretty much limited to the head coaches for the Big West, Mountain West, or WCC

That is a pretty small list unless there are a lot of assistant coaches from out West that are now head coaches back East somewhere.

If you want an African-American coach the list is even smaller, but I am not sure that's a necessary requirement.

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Sorry, I struggle to understand how anyone thought Jones was a good hire. He was in the coaching ranks for twenty years without ever being a head coach and actually wasn't even an assistant head coach at any stop. He was on no coaching lists and given the recent success under Martin AND the Missouri buyout money Cal had in hand, a terrible hire to go with. The results were entirely predictable.

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Look at Palmer's resume. Jones' was the same but much better. If Jones was a bad hire based on resume, then Palmer is worse. But then so was Wilcox in football.

However, if you are consistently an assistant to Hall of Fame coaches there is a reason you are not "promoted" to head coach. You are not taking that guys job. You might be a good HC if you give it a try or get a chance. Or you might not. It is not a "bad" is is no info.

That is why I prefer hiring HCs who are up and comers, you have positive indication they are good HCs. That is why Troy Taylor gave up being a P5 OC to become a FCS HC. To prove himself. As a HC. He has already been a P5 OC. You want to see how a guy handles being in charge, both in basketball and football.

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Exactly. Jones was an assistant to some very good coaches and was known as a recruiter with West Coast ties. He pretty much checked off all the boxes outlined above including being African-American and being familiar with UC. I think people were hoping we'd land a proven coach after Cuonzo left, but it wasn't absurd to give Wyking a shot.

If you had asked me to choose between Wyking and Fox at the time I would have gone with Wyking and I still think we might have been better off with Wyking even in hindsight.

Should we have hired Gates or Legans or Musselman or Decuire or even Kidd instead? Probably, but the Jones hire wasn't as bad at the time as it proved to be later. I don't think anyone expected him to go 5-31 in conference and if you say you did you are not being honest about it. He failed spectacularly, but you are letting hindsight drive your opinion of the hiring.

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At the time I thought it was one of the worst hires of all time. Many other posters thought the same. Hiring a coach is more than checking boxes. Knowlton appears to have tried to check the boxes with this Fox hire and look how that's turning out.

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