Matt Bradly rated nations #1 small forward

The top 25 small forwards in College Basketball🏀 pic.twitter.com/3yiN0LEo8O

— Parker Hamann (@CBKReport) October 10, 2022

And Connor Vanover, set to debit for Oral Roberts, was rated the 44th-best "Sit-Out" Transfer in the Nation by ESPN for the 2020-21 season.

I really hope we have enough donor support to muster the 3.5M (I believe thats the ballpark figure) buyout that Fox will have after this season

I understand some of the limitations we have, namely practice facility & low spending- but I figure that Fox is a poor recruiter anyways, so what donors would really be willing to write big checks for the program at this point? Hire a coach with better recruiting chops, a higher ceiling, and maybe we'll fund basketball more since there will be more donor enthusiasm

My question is- what kind of situation does our next coach walk into? There's some talent here; Askew was rated very highly and has some time left. ND is supposedly raw but has the physical tools. I hope we have enough in the cupboard to entice a good coach to come here

calumnus said:

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parentswerebears said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Do we need to give Wyking and his staff some credit, at least on the recruiting end? If they all stuck around, we would have been good despite the coaching.

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I think they would have at least been top half of the conference, albeit with baffling losses every year.

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Yes and that would just be just with the seniors Vanover, Kelly, Sueing and Bradley. We would have had better incoming classes these last three years too. In basketball even bad x and o coaches can win if they recruit well and just get the best players on the court and let them play.

Conversely it is difficult to win in basketball if you recruit poorly, but especially if you are also not particularly good at X's and O's.

I know people say hiring Jones destroyed Cal basketball. It did not. He was fired quickly after 2 years and left behind a team of great young players.

It was following that up with a known bad hire in Fox, the loss of the talent Jones brought in, and the extensions of Fox that has put us in the hole we are in.

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Vanover, Kelly, Sueing and Bradley - playing 4 years together?
in today's environment, how many schools are there, if any, who have 4 senior players who all played their entire career at that school.

KoreAmBear said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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I really hope we have enough donor support to muster the 3.5M (I believe thats the ballpark figure) buyout that Fox will have after this season

I understand some of the limitations we have, namely practice facility & low spending- but I figure that Fox is a poor recruiter anyways, so what donors would really be willing to write big checks for the program at this point? Hire a coach with better recruiting chops, a higher ceiling, and maybe we'll fund basketball more since there will be more donor enthusiasm

My question is- what kind of situation does our next coach walk into? There's some talent here; Askew was rated very highly and has some time left. ND is supposedly raw but has the physical tools. I hope we have enough in the cupboard to entice a good coach to come here

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I remember things looked really pathetic in between the Keith Smith and Jason Kidd era. Our starting point guard was once Sean Harrell. Do you remember him? I know you don't and for good reason. But the Jason Kidd and Jerrod Haase class really got things back on track didn't it, like never before and quickly. Now of course we hit the lotto, but we have done it a few times -- Shareef, Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb -- we need to find a recruiter who can do it again.

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Kyle Campanelli still gets no respect - not even disrespect.

eastcoastcal said:

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I really hope we have enough donor support to muster the 3.5M (I believe thats the ballpark figure) buyout that Fox will have after this season

I understand some of the limitations we have, namely practice facility & low spending- but I figure that Fox is a poor recruiter anyways, so what donors would really be willing to write big checks for the program at this point? Hire a coach with better recruiting chops, a higher ceiling, and maybe we'll fund basketball more since there will be more donor enthusiasm

My question is- what kind of situation does our next coach walk into? There's some talent here; Askew was rated very highly and has some time left. ND is supposedly raw but has the physical tools. I hope we have enough in the cupboard to entice a good coach to come here

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Askew was rated as a 4 star HS recruit but more recently was a 3 star as a transfer. I think asking him to be more of a scorer (and having a huge vacuum there to fill) could be good for him. I hope all our guards spent the offseason practicing their 3 point shots.

graguna said:

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calumnus said:

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parentswerebears said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Do we need to give Wyking and his staff some credit, at least on the recruiting end? If they all stuck around, we would have been good despite the coaching.

---

I think they would have at least been top half of the conference, albeit with baffling losses every year.

---

Yes and that would just be just with the seniors Vanover, Kelly, Sueing and Bradley. We would have had better incoming classes these last three years too. In basketball even bad x and o coaches can win if they recruit well and just get the best players on the court and let them play.

Conversely it is difficult to win in basketball if you recruit poorly, but especially if you are also not particularly good at X's and O's.

I know people say hiring Jones destroyed Cal basketball. It did not. He was fired quickly after 2 years and left behind a team of great young players.

It was following that up with a known bad hire in Fox, the loss of the talent Jones brought in, and the extensions of Fox that has put us in the hole we are in.

---

Vanover, Kelly, Sueing and Bradley - playing 4 years together?
in today's environment, how many schools are there, if any, who have 4 senior players who all played their entire career at that school.

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How many players still play their whole career at one school? It is still the vast majority.

The question is, how many players who are STARTERS at P5 schools transfer, especially to mid-major programs?

parentswerebears said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Do we need to give Wyking and his staff some credit, at least on the recruiting end? If they all stuck around, we would have been good despite the coaching.

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I think they would have at least been top half of the conference, albeit with baffling losses every year.

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it's a sign of the current events when some look fondly at the Wyking years

KoreAmBear said:

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I remember things looked really pathetic in between the Keith Smith and Jason Kidd era. Our starting point guard was once Sean Harrell. Do you remember him? I know you don't and for good reason. But the Jason Kidd and Jerrod Haase class really got things back on track didn't it, like never before and quickly. Now of course we hit the lotto, but we have done it a few times -- Shareef, Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb -- we need to find a recruiter who can do it again.

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Keith Smith era? You and I must have been in Harmon at the same time. Loved those teams and KS did get us back to the tourney, but I dont think too many people remember him. I think it was the PG before him (KJ) that really defined the era.

bruab2 said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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I remember things looked really pathetic in between the Keith Smith and Jason Kidd era. Our starting point guard was once Sean Harrell. Do you remember him? I know you don't and for good reason. But the Jason Kidd and Jerrod Haase class really got things back on track didn't it, like never before and quickly. Now of course we hit the lotto, but we have done it a few times -- Shareef, Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb -- we need to find a recruiter who can do it again.

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Keith Smith era? You and I must have been in Harmon at the same time. Loved those teams and KS did get us back to the tourney, but I dont think too many people remember him. I think it was the PG before him (KJ) that really defined the era.

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Well yah the era was two season, but I missed KJ and Keith Smith was my PG1 for my freshmen and sophomore years. Boy was he smooth.

Well, I was told on here that the team would actually be better without him so we must be ready for a deep tourney run.

socaliganbear said:

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Well, I was told on here that the team would actually be better without him so we must be ready for a deep tourney run.

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Lol, I also remember several folks trying to make that ridiculous argument before last season.

PtownBear1 said:

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socaliganbear said:

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Well, I was told on here that the team would actually be better without him so we must be ready for a deep tourney run.

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Lol, I also remember several folks trying to make that ridiculous argument before last season.

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I think that's what Fox was telling the big donors,

I think you are all looking back too fondly on the wyking years. I doubt he would've been able to keep guys from transferring after 2 8 win seasons where he looked clueless as a coach. It was just a matter of time for guys to xfer and then his crappy recruiting would have kicked in.

philbert said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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socaliganbear said:

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Well, I was told on here that the team would actually be better without him so we must be ready for a deep tourney run.

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Lol, I also remember several folks trying to make that ridiculous argument before last season.

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I think that's what Fox was telling the big donors,

I think you are all looking back too fondly on the wyking years. I doubt he would've been able to keep guys from transferring after 2 8 win seasons where he looked clueless as a coach. It was just a matter of time for guys to xfer and then his crappy recruiting would have kicked in.

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You may be right about the Wyking years. However, even if we grant people would have transferred out and recruiting would have tanked, we would still have been in a significantly better position at the end of his original contract than we are now. After 5 years of Wyking where we just paid him 1M per season, we would have absolutely no cash going out and could put the full resources into hiring a coach. Of course, Knowlton would still probably hire Fox, but you can't tell me we would be any worse off for having kept Wyking.

Further, I can definitely imagine Wyking changing his coaching staff, maybe bringing in stronger coaching assistants, and improving as a coach over time. Maybe that's a 1% outlier case, but at least there was a 1% chance of it. Fox is 100% a known quantity, who has made 0 changes to a coaching staff that might have the worst recruiting performance since the mid 80s and maybe further back.

Don't mistake my post to be in support of Fox in any way. He sucks and should've been canned at the end of last season...although I believe I was in favor of firing him even earlier.

I also think Wyking should have been fired but never thought Cal would eat his contract. The killer mistake was hiring Fox as his replacement. We are now in basketball hell.