BearSD said:

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... by Joe Lunardi.

Here's how he predicts the Pac-12 for this season. In parenthesis he predicts each team's ranking among all Division I teams, from 1 to 363.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34966270/bracketology-where-rank-all-363-division-men-college-hoops-teams-2022-23

PAC-12

[ol]

UCLA (7)

Arizona (14)

Oregon (25)

USC (36)

Stanford (51)

Washington State (62)

Colorado (74)

Arizona State (77)

Washington (81)

Utah (91)

California (129)

Oregon State (183)

[/ol]
#129 out of 363 is much too high, based on available evidence.

BTW, he has the Bears' conquerors from UC Davis at #207, and he predicts them to finish 7th in the Big West.

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Oregon State seems to have recovered and is improved. Same with Utah. Cal will almost certainly be last (again).

calumnus said:

---

BearSD said:

---

... by Joe Lunardi.

Here's how he predicts the Pac-12 for this season. In parenthesis he predicts each team's ranking among all Division I teams, from 1 to 363.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34966270/bracketology-where-rank-all-363-division-men-college-hoops-teams-2022-23

PAC-12

[ol]

UCLA (7)

Arizona (14)

Oregon (25)

USC (36)

Stanford (51)

Washington State (62)

Colorado (74)

Arizona State (77)

Washington (81)

Utah (91)

California (129)

Oregon State (183)

[/ol]
#129 out of 363 is much too high, based on available evidence.

BTW, he has the Bears' conquerors from UC Davis at #207, and he predicts them to finish 7th in the Big West.

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Oregon State seems to have recovered and is improved. Same with Utah. Cal will almost certainly be last (again).

---

I was able to watch the ASU and WSU games yesterday. ASU looks like a lot of very talented players that haven't practiced/played together much. If Hurley can get them all on the same page, they could be really good. WSU looks well coached and decently talented. Good shooting team. Both have much better players than us

HKBear97! said:

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calumnus said:

---

BearSD said:

---

... by Joe Lunardi.

Here's how he predicts the Pac-12 for this season. In parenthesis he predicts each team's ranking among all Division I teams, from 1 to 363.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34966270/bracketology-where-rank-all-363-division-men-college-hoops-teams-2022-23

PAC-12

[ol]

UCLA (7)

Arizona (14)

Oregon (25)

USC (36)

Stanford (51)

Washington State (62)

Colorado (74)

Arizona State (77)

Washington (81)

Utah (91)

California (129)

Oregon State (183)

[/ol]
#129 out of 363 is much too high, based on available evidence.

BTW, he has the Bears' conquerors from UC Davis at #207, and he predicts them to finish 7th in the Big West.

---

Oregon State seems to have recovered and is improved. Same with Utah. Cal will almost certainly be last (again).

---

I was able to watch the ASU and WSU games yesterday. ASU looks like a lot of very talented players that haven't practiced/played together much. If Hurley can get them all on the same page, they could be really good. WSU looks well coached and decently talented. Good shooting team. Both have much better players than us

---

I think Smith is a good, smart coach and Patrick Chun is a good, smart AD. But hey, I am a Cal grad, maybe I am biased in favor of intelligence?

calumnus said:

---

BearSD said:

---

... by Joe Lunardi.

Here's how he predicts the Pac-12 for this season. In parenthesis he predicts each team's ranking among all Division I teams, from 1 to 363.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34966270/bracketology-where-rank-all-363-division-men-college-hoops-teams-2022-23

PAC-12

[ol]

UCLA (7)

Arizona (14)

Oregon (25)

USC (36)

Stanford (51)

Washington State (62)

Colorado (74)

Arizona State (77)

Washington (81)

Utah (91)

California (129)

Oregon State (183)

[/ol]
#129 out of 363 is much too high, based on available evidence.

BTW, he has the Bears' conquerors from UC Davis at #207, and he predicts them to finish 7th in the Big West.

---

Oregon State seems to have recovered and is improved. Same with Utah. Cal will almost certainly be last (again).

---

Okay, things seem pretty bleak right now, but there's a reason they keep playing after the first game. Let's support our guys and see how the season plays out.

https://www.si.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_700/MTY4MTk4NzQ3MTU5MTQ0MzQ5/tony-inlinejpg.jpg

Big C said:

---

calumnus said:

---

BearSD said:

---

... by Joe Lunardi.

Here's how he predicts the Pac-12 for this season. In parenthesis he predicts each team's ranking among all Division I teams, from 1 to 363.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34966270/bracketology-where-rank-all-363-division-men-college-hoops-teams-2022-23

PAC-12

[ol]

UCLA (7)

Arizona (14)

Oregon (25)

USC (36)

Stanford (51)

Washington State (62)

Colorado (74)

Arizona State (77)

Washington (81)

Utah (91)

California (129)

Oregon State (183)

[/ol]
#129 out of 363 is much too high, based on available evidence.

BTW, he has the Bears' conquerors from UC Davis at #207, and he predicts them to finish 7th in the Big West.

---

Oregon State seems to have recovered and is improved. Same with Utah. Cal will almost certainly be last (again).

---

Okay, things seem pretty bleak right now, but there's a reason they keep playing after the first game. Let's support our guys and see how the season plays out.

---

Agreed. I'm just saying it looks like Oregon State and Utah are improved, so we will probably need to be improved over last year to finish 11 th again. We started out poorly last year too, so that doesn't mean we still can't be improved over last year too. We'll see.

I feel like Askew is the wildcard. He is being asked to turn into a scorer. Newell maybe the second. Fox finding his best five will help,

I surfed through the Davis game on my DVR. My thoughts on Askew:

• He certainly played like he had the green light to shoot. I hope he looks to dish off on occasion.
• Not as good an athlete as I expected a former 5* player to be, particularly lack of hops. Are plyometrics still "a thing"? If so, he should try'em in the off-season.
• He may be a less athletic version of Shepherd, who I liked but who was also not a great shooter.
• Overall, I'm hopeful, but pairing him with Joel in the backcourt will be hard to do if they run into a team with big guards.

HearstMining said:

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I surfed through the Davis game on my DVR. My thoughts on Askew:

• He certainly played like he had the green light to shoot. I hope he looks to dish off on occasion.
• Not as good an athlete as I expected a former 5* player to be, particularly lack of hops. Are plyometrics still "a thing"? If so, he should try'em in the off-season.
• He may be a less athletic version of Shepherd, who I liked but who was also not a great shooter.
• Overall, I'm hopeful, but pairing him with Joel in the backcourt will be hard to do if they run into a team with big guards.

---

I think this could get very ugly.

Anybody that likes players who dribble a lot will love Devin Askew.

Big C said:

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Anybody that likes players who dribble a lot will love Devin Askew.

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Knowing Fox, he's probably asking Askew to burn clock before initiating.

tequila4kapp said:

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HearstMining said:

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I surfed through the Davis game on my DVR. My thoughts on Askew:

• He certainly played like he had the green light to shoot. I hope he looks to dish off on occasion.
• Not as good an athlete as I expected a former 5* player to be, particularly lack of hops. Are plyometrics still "a thing"? If so, he should try'em in the off-season.
• He may be a less athletic version of Shepherd, who I liked but who was also not a great shooter.
• Overall, I'm hopeful, but pairing him with Joel in the backcourt will be hard to do if they run into a team with big guards.

---

I think Fox said he got too big and has lost some weight/mass. He still looks too thick to me, like he could benefit from dropping another 10-15lbs and gaining some quickness back.

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No, Askew is just not very athletic. I have never seen him dunk. He is less than average quickness for a pac12 point. As his competitors improved their athleticism in their late teens, he could not. He developed a fully mature game at a young age at a big high school program, and he became overrated. If he was better, he would be in a better program.

On the other hand, he has good vision. And he knows all of Chris Paul's moves such as shoulder dip and fade, hard drive to the baseline and pull up (Paul copied Kobe who copied MJ on this one), and various spins. His 3 point shot has too much arc, and he won't make it with a high percentage.

sluggo said:

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calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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Anybody that likes players who dribble a lot will love Devin Askew.

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Knowing Fox, he's probably asking Askew to burn clock before initiating.

---

Not yesterday. With no ball off ball action KSU had Cal figured out and stuck. In the second half there was some offball cutting (but never any screens), and the offense improved a little.

I don't think he over dribbles, he is just on a poorly coached team.

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I haven't been able to stomach watching the 2nd half yet. But I agree with your assessment of the 1st half. Somewhere else I said we run a weave. That's wrong. It's more like a 4 out, 1 in. But that's kind of irrelevant because we are so bad at how we execute whatever the O is…virtually zero off ball action other than Lars flashing to the high post. It is just absolutely terrible.

tequila4kapp said:

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sluggo said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Big C said:

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Anybody that likes players who dribble a lot will love Devin Askew.

---

Knowing Fox, he's probably asking Askew to burn clock before initiating.

---

Not yesterday. With no ball off ball action KSU had Cal figured out and stuck. In the second half there was some offball cutting (but never any screens), and the offense improved a little.

I don't think he over dribbles, he is just on a poorly coached team.

---

I haven't been able to stomach watching the 2nd half yet. But I agree with your assessment of the 1st half. Somewhere else I said we run a weave. That's wrong. It's more like a 4 out, 1 in. But that's kind of irrelevant because we are so bad at how we execute whatever the O is…virtually zero off ball action other than Lars flashing to the high post. It is just absolutely terrible.

---

It seems to me that Cal runs a 3 high, 2 low offense. But the 2 low are at opposite baselines outside the 3 point line. The 3 at top run a weave at times. Other times they screen and roll. LT is often high, which makes him touch the ball too far away from the basket. And the two low are not great 3 point shooting threats.

In the second half the low players sometimes cut to the basket for good looks.

The Fox offense is much too much about spacing and not enough about off ball screens. On ball screens are less effective in college where zones are allowed. Further they require the screener to be able to handle the ball, otherwise they can just be switched. I wonder how much time JK watched Georgia play before hiring him.

sluggo said:

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calumnus said:

---

Big C said:

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Anybody that likes players who dribble a lot will love Devin Askew.

---

Knowing Fox, he's probably asking Askew to burn clock before initiating.

---

Not yesterday. With no ball off ball action KSU had Cal figured out and stuck. In the second half there was some offball cutting (but never any screens), and the offense improved a little.

I don't think he over dribbles, he is just on a poorly coached team.

---

Agreed on minimal off ball movement/action/cuts. The glaring issue and reinforced by Midge and Wilkes though is the lack of Pac12 talent. Its a poor shooting team and despite the ball sticking and passes a bit slow, there have been open shots created in both games and the guys are simply overall a poor shooting group. Celestine certainly would help as He has a consistent smooth shot, but regardless, there are maybe 5-6 Pac12 level players (not starters but roster players) on the roster. The staff has continually failed at recruiting enough players to compete in the Pac12.

4thGenCal said:

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sluggo said:

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calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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Anybody that likes players who dribble a lot will love Devin Askew.

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Knowing Fox, he's probably asking Askew to burn clock before initiating.

---

Not yesterday. With no ball off ball action KSU had Cal figured out and stuck. In the second half there was some offball cutting (but never any screens), and the offense improved a little.

I don't think he over dribbles, he is just on a poorly coached team.

---

Agreed on minimal off ball movement/action/cuts. The glaring issue and reinforced by Midge and Wilkes though is the lack of Pac12 talent. Its a poor shooting team and despite the ball sticking and passes a bit slow, there have been open shots created in both games and the guys are simply overall a poor shooting group. Celestine certainly would help as He has a consistent smooth shot, but regardless, there are maybe 5-6 Pac12 level players (not starters but roster players) on the roster. The staff has continually failed at recruiting enough players to compete in the Pac12.

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I just want to highlight that it was obvious watching high school video the players who can't play. Speaking of which ...

with fox, I am at a point, let him go now, make one of the assistants head coach .. if he does really well, make him the new coach, but put out there than the head coach position is available, anyone interested contact the AD so he can make sure he is comfortable with them LOL

it is like a bandage, just pull the damn thinf off, it hurts for a while but less than if you do it gradually

sluggo said:

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4thGenCal said:

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sluggo said:

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calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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Anybody that likes players who dribble a lot will love Devin Askew.

---

Knowing Fox, he's probably asking Askew to burn clock before initiating.

---

Not yesterday. With no ball off ball action KSU had Cal figured out and stuck. In the second half there was some offball cutting (but never any screens), and the offense improved a little.

I don't think he over dribbles, he is just on a poorly coached team.

---

Agreed on minimal off ball movement/action/cuts. The glaring issue and reinforced by Midge and Wilkes though is the lack of Pac12 talent. Its a poor shooting team and despite the ball sticking and passes a bit slow, there have been open shots created in both games and the guys are simply overall a poor shooting group. Celestine certainly would help as He has a consistent smooth shot, but regardless, there are maybe 5-6 Pac12 level players (not starters but roster players) on the roster. The staff has continually failed at recruiting enough players to compete in the Pac12.

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Now you are just echoing my posts from the last three years

It is both, low talent and poor design.

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Sluggo, we have been consistent in pointing this out since Fox was hired, to the point his defenders called us "haters" and "negative" but I am glad most of the Fox defenders are now finally staring reality in the face and admitting it publicly. A few have just gone silent. Soon they will all deny they were ever vocal defenders. Then we will have change.

wifeisafurd said:

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when Fox was hired, the thought process appeared to be at least this guy can can coach, unlike the prior coach, and that gets Cal to at least the back side of the middle of the conference, and then you go out and get someone that recruit big tine and can get you to a higher level. It became clear that was not the thought process a couple years ago. Basically, this AD doesn't have a thought process when it comes to managing revenue sports.

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The only thought process I see is refusal to fire people probably because that confirms he made a bad hire

wifeisafurd said:

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when Fox was hired, the thought process appeared to be at least this guy can can coach, unlike the prior coach, and that gets Cal to at least the back side of the middle of the conference, and then you go out and get someone that recruit big tine and can get you to a higher level. It became clear that was not the thought process a couple years ago. Basically, this AD doesn't have a thought process when it comes to managing revenue sports.

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IMHO his first season at Cal showed he could coach better than his predecessor with the players he inherited and the result was respectable. However he has since shown he can't recruit players who are ready for the PAC-12, can't sufficiently develop the players he does recruit, and can't concoct schemes to get the most out of the players he has.

I was pleasantly surprised by Fox's first season then disappointed by each subsequent season. At this point I think he's had enough time to show what he can do, actually one season more than enough time. I don't hate the man but I think it's past time for a change.

calumnus said:

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sluggo said:

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4thGenCal said:

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sluggo said:

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calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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Anybody that likes players who dribble a lot will love Devin Askew.

---

Knowing Fox, he's probably asking Askew to burn clock before initiating.

---

Not yesterday. With no ball off ball action KSU had Cal figured out and stuck. In the second half there was some offball cutting (but never any screens), and the offense improved a little.

I don't think he over dribbles, he is just on a poorly coached team.

---

Agreed on minimal off ball movement/action/cuts. The glaring issue and reinforced by Midge and Wilkes though is the lack of Pac12 talent. Its a poor shooting team and despite the ball sticking and passes a bit slow, there have been open shots created in both games and the guys are simply overall a poor shooting group. Celestine certainly would help as He has a consistent smooth shot, but regardless, there are maybe 5-6 Pac12 level players (not starters but roster players) on the roster. The staff has continually failed at recruiting enough players to compete in the Pac12.

---

Now you are just echoing my posts from the last three years

It is both, low talent and poor design.

---

Sluggo, we have been consistent in pointing this out since Fox was hired, to the point his defenders called us "haters" and "negative" but I am glad most of the Fox defenders are now finally staring reality in the face and admitting it publicly. A few have just gone silent. Soon they will all deny they were ever vocal defenders. Then we will have change.

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We have always seen things the same way. We both want Cal to succeed, but when things are gong wrong, what else is there to talk about?

sluggo said:

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tequila4kapp said:

---

sluggo said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Big C said:

---

Anybody that likes players who dribble a lot will love Devin Askew.

---

Knowing Fox, he's probably asking Askew to burn clock before initiating.

---

Not yesterday. With no ball off ball action KSU had Cal figured out and stuck. In the second half there was some offball cutting (but never any screens), and the offense improved a little.

I don't think he over dribbles, he is just on a poorly coached team.

---

I haven't been able to stomach watching the 2nd half yet. But I agree with your assessment of the 1st half. Somewhere else I said we run a weave. That's wrong. It's more like a 4 out, 1 in. But that's kind of irrelevant because we are so bad at how we execute whatever the O is…virtually zero off ball action other than Lars flashing to the high post. It is just absolutely terrible.

---

It seems to me that Cal runs a 3 high, 2 low offense. But the 2 low are at opposite baselines outside the 3 point line. The 3 at top run a weave at times. Other times they screen and roll. LT is often high, which makes him touch the ball too far away from the basket. And the two low are not great 3 point shooting threats.

In the second half the low players sometimes cut to the basket for good looks.

The Fox offense is much too much about spacing and not enough about off ball screens. On ball screens are less effective in college where zones are allowed. Further they require the screener to be able to handle the ball, otherwise they can just be switched. I wonder how much time JK watched Georgia play before hiring him.

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Zero

sluggo said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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HearstMining said:

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I surfed through the Davis game on my DVR. My thoughts on Askew:

• He certainly played like he had the green light to shoot. I hope he looks to dish off on occasion.
• Not as good an athlete as I expected a former 5* player to be, particularly lack of hops. Are plyometrics still "a thing"? If so, he should try'em in the off-season.
• He may be a less athletic version of Shepherd, who I liked but who was also not a great shooter.
• Overall, I'm hopeful, but pairing him with Joel in the backcourt will be hard to do if they run into a team with big guards.

---

I think Fox said he got too big and has lost some weight/mass. He still looks too thick to me, like he could benefit from dropping another 10-15lbs and gaining some quickness back.

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No, Askew is just not very athletic. I have never seen him dunk. He is less than average quickness for a pac12 point. As his competitors improved their athleticism in their late teens, he could not. He developed a fully mature game at a young age at a big high school program, and he became overrated. If he was better, he would be in a better program.

On the other hand, he has good vision. And he knows all of Chris Paul's moves such as shoulder dip and fade, hard drive to the baseline and pull up (Paul copied Kobe who copied MJ on this one), and various spins. His 3 point shot has too much arc, and he won't make it with a high percentage.

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He was a 4 star coming out of high school, but as a transfer (his second) from Texas, was rated a 3 star.