This has got to be killing him. As much as we all hate his guts, I don't think his is an agenda of just collecting his millions and losing and losing.

Of course any other power 5 the coach would have been out a year ago...

Resign with full pay out? Sure.

Agree to calling a firing a resignation with a full pay out? Sure.

Resign and forfeit payout? Whatya reckon?

Play out the season. We will given him one million per win as a payout.

annarborbear said:

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Back in 2016, we had $3.5 million in ticket sales in men's basketball. Wonder how much that will be this year under Knowlton/Fox,

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$1,564,000. Avg att. (2300) x avg. Tix ($40)x Home
Games (17)

<a href="https://ibb.co/nQ3wZPM"><img src="" alt="41-C99-A06-D3-DE-4-A9-E-9117-8-E8-BAE78-ED71" border="0"></a>

why would he? After all, covid is responsible for setting this program back (but no other program).

Shocky1 said:

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HoopDreams said:

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fox has the worst body language on the sideline when the game is going

he looks so tight and upset with his arms tightly crossed, a big frown on his face, and his head shaking side-to-side

this is not a good look for the players as he's supposed be a leader, showing he's in command of the game and showing confidence to his players

he also has horrible body language in post game interviews… he should work on this which only takes effort on his part

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my suggestion would be that he not communicate at all directly with the players during the games, all communications would be done by andrew francis

when mike montgomery would get really upset back in the day at a player he was wise & introspective enough to realize that his message would not get thru & then travis decuire would go sit down next to the player & deliver coach's message in a constructive way

100% agree with your commentary re: fox's body language, do you notice how the players fail almost every time when exiting the game to maintain eye contact with him?

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You mean like this?

Shocky1 said:

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HoopDreams said:

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fox has the worst body language on the sideline when the game is going

he looks so tight and upset with his arms tightly crossed, a big frown on his face, and his head shaking side-to-side

this is not a good look for the players as he's supposed be a leader, showing he's in command of the game and showing confidence to his players

he also has horrible body language in post game interviews… he should work on this which only takes effort on his part

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my suggestion would be that he not communicate at all directly with the players during the games, all communications would be done by andrew francis

when mike montgomery would get really upset back in the day at a player he was wise & introspective enough to realize that his message would not get thru & then travis decuire would go sit down next to the player & deliver coach's message in a constructive way

100% agree with your commentary re: fox's body language, do you notice how the players fail almost every time when exiting the game to maintain eye contact with him?

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At the Southern game, at every timeout, Fox stood in the background, while the assistant coaches did all the talking with the players. Right before the end of the timeout, Fox would join them, and diagram a play for them.

Every coach has their own style. Ben Braun used to spend almost the entire timeout huddling with his assistants, than at the last minute he would go over to the players and give them some encouraging words. At least that was what it looked like. I always wondered what Ben and his brain trust were discussing, while the players waited for that last minute instruction.

I'd like to add that if he did resign this early in the season, that it might be a career-ender for him. Not many schools, I'd speculate, would be willing to quit when the heat is on. Giving up, so to speak. It would look worse on the resume, than if he stayed and had a season loaded with losses. At least then, he wouldn't have the quitter label. So that might be a consideration for him, if he is considering resigning early.

I can't imagine a coach resigning before the end of a season (barring some bizarre circumstance or transgression). It would be like a player quitting. They are hard-wired to think that they will somehow be able to turn things around.

Big C said:

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I can't imagine a coach resigning before the end of a season (barring some bizarre circumstance or transgression). It would be like a player quitting. They are hard-wired to think that they will somehow be able to turn things around.

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That is probably another reason why I never had any desire to coach. Brutal business. Darn near killed Pete Newell. He never chewed out a player in a game, and hardly ever called a timeout. His style was to coach in practice, and let the players play the game. He did chew a lot of towels up on the bench during a game. It led to ulcers, I believe, and to his very early retirement. As a coach, you just can't play the game for these kids. You train them as best you can, but in the end they are the ones who will either win the game or lose it. If they win, they will get most of the credit, not you, and if they lose the game, you will likely get all the blame.

SFCityBear said:

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bearister said:

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Resign with full pay out? Sure.

Agree to calling a firing a resignation with a full pay out? Sure.

Resign and forfeit payout? Whatya reckon?

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If it were me, I think I would resign. First, however, I would ask my players if they think I should resign, and if they said no, that would be the only reason I would stay. What they think would mean more to me than 15-20 disgruntled fans posting on website.

I don't know what his contract legally requires of him, but I'd guess he feels he's lived up to it. If I were him, I would at least know that even though most or all of my players had shown some improvement, it is clear that the team is not improved, and I have not delivered a watchable or successful product.

I would resign, but not want the full payout. I'd be willing to negotiate the amount downward, and leave it up to the administration to decide if I even get one. I've been paid a lot already, and when everybody hates you, it is time to leave town.

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Well, you have honor, which is in short supply these days. 1 in a 100,000 (or more) would either walk away from, or negotiate downward, a few million dollar payout they are contractually entitled to.
In other news, triggered by that video of Monty pushing Crabbe:

In 7 NBA seasons Crabbe's total earnings are $85,774,000.
Allen Crabbe's NBA career scoring average is 9 points.

He currently is in the G League playing for the Westchester Knicks.

bearister said:

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SFCityBear said:

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bearister said:

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Resign with full pay out? Sure.

Agree to calling a firing a resignation with a full pay out? Sure.

Resign and forfeit payout? Whatya reckon?

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If it were me, I think I would resign. First, however, I would ask my players if they think I should resign, and if they said no, that would be the only reason I would stay. What they think would mean more to me than 15-20 disgruntled fans posting on website.

I don't know what his contract legally requires of him, but I'd guess he feels he's lived up to it. If I were him, I would at least know that even though most or all of my players had shown some improvement, it is clear that the team is not improved, and I have not delivered a watchable or successful product.

I would resign, but not want the full payout. I'd be willing to negotiate the amount downward, and leave it up to the administration to decide if I even get one. I've been paid a lot already, and when everybody hates you, it is time to leave town.

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Well, you have honor, which is in short supply these days. 1 in a 100,000 (or more) would either walk away from, or negotiate downward, a few million dollar payout they are contractually entitled to.
In other news, triggered by that video of Monty pushing Crabbe:

In 7 NBA seasons Crabbe's total earnings are $85,774,000.
Allen Crabbe's NBA career scoring average is 9 points.

He currently is in the G League playing for the Westchester Knicks.

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It looks like a little tough love didn't hurt Crabbe too much. When I saw that happen, I thought, "Oh no. Not Monty." And I felt he was probably affected by his own behavior. I'd never seen him lose his cool with a player in a game before. To make things worse, The game was on national TV and Crabbe's parents were in attendance, I believe. At the end of the season, Crabbe left Cal to enter the NBA draft. When I saw what happened, I felt at the time that the incident would deeply affect Montgomery, and he would retire soon. After the following season, he retired, and quit coaching for good, it seems.

SFCityBear said:

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bearister said:

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SFCityBear said:

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bearister said:

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Resign with full pay out? Sure.

Agree to calling a firing a resignation with a full pay out? Sure.

Resign and forfeit payout? Whatya reckon?

---

If it were me, I think I would resign. First, however, I would ask my players if they think I should resign, and if they said no, that would be the only reason I would stay. What they think would mean more to me than 15-20 disgruntled fans posting on website.

I don't know what his contract legally requires of him, but I'd guess he feels he's lived up to it. If I were him, I would at least know that even though most or all of my players had shown some improvement, it is clear that the team is not improved, and I have not delivered a watchable or successful product.

I would resign, but not want the full payout. I'd be willing to negotiate the amount downward, and leave it up to the administration to decide if I even get one. I've been paid a lot already, and when everybody hates you, it is time to leave town.

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Well, you have honor, which is in short supply these days. 1 in a 100,000 (or more) would either walk away from, or negotiate downward, a few million dollar payout they are contractually entitled to.
In other news, triggered by that video of Monty pushing Crabbe:

In 7 NBA seasons Crabbe's total earnings are $85,774,000.
Allen Crabbe's NBA career scoring average is 9 points.

He currently is in the G League playing for the Westchester Knicks.

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It looks like a little tough love didn't hurt Crabbe too much. When I saw that happen, I thought, "Oh no. Not Monty." And I felt he was probably affected by his own behavior. I'd never seen him lose his cool with a player in a game before. To make things worse, The game was on national TV and Crabbe's parents were in attendance, I believe. At the end of the season, Crabbe left Cal to enter the NBA draft. When I saw what happened, I felt at the time that the incident would deeply affect Montgomery, and he would retire soon. After the following season, he retired, and quit coaching for good, it seems.

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Verbally abusing a student, employee or player you are coaching is not OK.

Physically assaulting a student, employee or player you are coaching is worse. Even if you are a brilliant professor you cannot physically attack a student. If you are the top performer at work, even if your manager is really smart, even if he thinks you could perform even better, he cannot physically assault you.

What Monty did is not tolerated in any walk of life. He humiliated his best player in front of his teammates, his parents and a national TV audience.

Any inference that Crabbe, who was already a star player due to his shooting which he came to Cal with, was in any way made better due to being shoved by his coach on national TV is highly insulting. If anything,,it probably had the opposite effect, creating a distraction and resentment toward his coach.

Worse, it created a distance between Monty and the team. Solomon, who went to high school with Crabbe and was the player treated the most harshly by Monty prior to the incident, was the one who held Crabbe back, knowing how serious the consequences would be if Crabbe did anything in response. However, Solomon refused to be coached by Monty after that. DeCuire was Solomon's coach exclusively after that.

It was a big national story. Like Bobby Knight, despite his great basketball knowledge, Monty was done as a recruiter )never his strong suit even before) and college coach. Though Monty would coach one more season.