Going to assume Fox is gone after this year. Irrespective of whether he's terminated during the season or after, I have to ask the question as to how desirable the Cal job is at the moment. How can we make it as appealing as possible? I hope we encourage all our seniors who are eligible to graduate, to do so. I love them but there's way too much non-pac12 level talent on the roster right now. I'd really like to see the next coach have as much freedom as possible to bring in transfers and his own recruits.

I also have a question about money- right now I believe fox is making somewhere in the 1.7-1.9M range. I may be mistaken but I believe it's roughly in that arena. How much do we have to play with for our next hire (and does an early buyout this season lower the amount we can offer the next guy)? Are we handicapped by our coaching salary at all?

I know the landscape has become more difficult for us with NIL and practice facility and academics, but I definitely think we are producing well below what we should right now. Was wondering what y'all think of how desirable our HC opening will be to prospective coaches.

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

While all of this may be true in comparing to top 50 P5 coaching jobs - that is only part of the candidate pool which is much larger than JC coaches. At this point, I think we can all agree - that we are willing to accept we wont' get a top 50 P5 coach this go around.

But, even at JC level - look no further than Justin Labagh at CCSF. I'm VERY confident of three things:

1. He would do better than FOX

2. There are dozens of better candidates than Labagh (no knock on Justin - just based on resumes)

3. Most of them will take less than FOX's salary and turn the program around = which will address ALL of your check boxes.

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more. That would be enough. But Cal has many advantages along with some disadvantages. The biggest disadvantage is that after years of poor recruiting the team has little talent. But that could change quickly with a dynamic recruiter, and the transfer rules allow quick rebuilds.

I think NIL could flow once a coach gave hope. And Cal will give its new coach time, lots and lots of time.

---

I'm not so sure about that. If Fox got canned over the break, that would mean he had all of 3 1/3 seasons (including the covid year), which would be more than his predecessor.

Civil Bear said:

---

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more. That would be enough. But Cal has many advantages along with some disadvantages. The biggest disadvantage is that after years of poor recruiting the team has little talent. But that could change quickly with a dynamic recruiter, and the transfer rules allow quick rebuilds.

I think NIL could flow once a coach gave hope. And Cal will give its new coach time, lots and lots of time.

---

I'm not so sure about that. If Fox got canned over the break, that would mean he had all of 3 1/3 seasons (including the covid year), which would be more than his predecessor.

---

That is a lot of time of historic failure with no hope on the horizon. Ben Braun, who was merely bad, got 12 years.

sluggo said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more. That would be enough. But Cal has many advantages along with some disadvantages. The biggest disadvantage is that after years of poor recruiting the team has little talent. But that could change quickly with a dynamic recruiter, and the transfer rules allow quick rebuilds.

I think NIL could flow once a coach gave hope. And Cal will give its new coach time, lots and lots of time.

---

I'm not so sure about that. If Fox got canned over the break, that would mean he had all of 3 1/3 seasons (including the covid year), which would be more than his predecessor.

---

That is a lot of time of historic failure with no hope on the horizon. Ben Braun, who was merely bad, got 12 years.

---

As others said, Braun started pretty good. Agree that he was kept on a couple of years too long, but not really relevant since that was a completely different administration.

If this admin fires Fox now it shows we are not even willing to wait an entire recruiting cycle (as we shouldn't when headed in the wrong direction).

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more.

---

What is silly is that a mid major coach can increase his salary 4-8X by coming to a program that is as in bad shape as ours. I realize things are what they are, but college coaches making what they do is absurd! Yes, it is because the money is there and the fan base is hungry, but folks these are upscale PE instructors. Has gone totally whacko when you relate it to just about anything in our society.

---

This is profoundly incorrect.

tequila4kapp said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more.

---

What is silly is that a mid major coach can increase his salary 4-8X by coming to a program that is as in bad shape as ours. I realize things are what they are, but college coaches making what they do is absurd! Yes, it is because the money is there and the fan base is hungry, but folks these are upscale PE instructors. Has gone totally whacko when you relate it to just about anything in our society.

---

This is profoundly incorrect.

---

Well admittedly the peak of their profession, but other than the money available via the lust of us fans, any reason for $3M, $5M, $9M/year? I understand how it happens but question value.

OdontoBear66 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more.

---

What is silly is that a mid major coach can increase his salary 4-8X by coming to a program that is as in bad shape as ours. I realize things are what they are, but college coaches making what they do is absurd! Yes, it is because the money is there and the fan base is hungry, but folks these are upscale PE instructors. Has gone totally whacko when you relate it to just about anything in our society.

---

This is profoundly incorrect.

---

Well admittedly the peak of their profession, but other than the money available via the lust of us fans, any reason for $3M, $5M, $9M/year? I understand how it happens but question value.

---

I am in your camp - I prefer the version of athletics we thought existed years ago. But in the modern world the head basketball coach is like the CEO of what, a $20-25m annually company, who is also the face of the university to a big segment of the population and alumni.

calumnus said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more.

---

What is silly is that a mid major coach can increase his salary 4-8X by coming to a program that is as in bad shape as ours. I realize things are what they are, but college coaches making what they do is absurd! Yes, it is because the money is there and the fan base is hungry, but folks these are upscale PE instructors. Has gone totally whacko when you relate it to just about anything in our society.

---

This is profoundly incorrect.

---

Well admittedly the peak of their profession, but other than the money available via the lust of us fans, any reason for $3M, $5M, $9M/year? I understand how it happens but question value.

---

The old paradigm was coaches and administrators got wealthy from the huge revenues generated by sports featuring unpaid athletes. Coaches largely got paid more by getting the best unpaid athletes to play for them.

The Supreme Court officially ended that but it will take awhile for the market to adjust.

As in the thread about $125 million practice facilities,
Instead of paying Mark Fox $1.9 million a year I think there are some good coaches at lower levels that would love to make $300,000 a year while we pay eight 4 and 5 star players $200,000 a year to play for him. The results would be far better than this.

---

Cal athletics is always a little behind the curve. In the NBA the coach gets paid 1/4 to 1/8 of the star players. And they could pay them anything, there is no salary cap on coaches. That maybe should be the guide of the relative worth of the players versus the coaches.

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more.

---

What is silly is that a mid major coach can increase his salary 4-8X by coming to a program that is as in bad shape as ours. I realize things are what they are, but college coaches making what they do is absurd! Yes, it is because the money is there and the fan base is hungry, but folks these are upscale PE instructors. Has gone totally whacko when you relate it to just about anything in our society.

---

I don't think Cal is going to reorient society with this hire. That does not seem like a realistic goal.

sluggo said:

---

Cal athletics is always a little behind the curve. In the NBA the coach gets paid 1/4 to 1/8 of the star players. And they could pay them anything, there is no salary cap on coaches. That maybe should be the guide of the relative worth of the players versus the coaches.

---

Except in college the coach is responsible for signing the players, at least before NIL.

sluggo said:

---

calumnus said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more.

---

What is silly is that a mid major coach can increase his salary 4-8X by coming to a program that is as in bad shape as ours. I realize things are what they are, but college coaches making what they do is absurd! Yes, it is because the money is there and the fan base is hungry, but folks these are upscale PE instructors. Has gone totally whacko when you relate it to just about anything in our society.

---

This is profoundly incorrect.

---

Well admittedly the peak of their profession, but other than the money available via the lust of us fans, any reason for $3M, $5M, $9M/year? I understand how it happens but question value.

---

The old paradigm was coaches and administrators got wealthy from the huge revenues generated by sports featuring unpaid athletes. Coaches largely got paid more by getting the best unpaid athletes to play for them.

The Supreme Court officially ended that but it will take awhile for the market to adjust.

As in the thread about $125 million practice facilities,
Instead of paying Mark Fox $1.9 million a year I think there are some good coaches at lower levels that would love to make $300,000 a year while we pay eight 4 and 5 star players $200,000 a year to play for him. The results would be far better than this.

---

Cal athletics is always a little behind the curve. In the NBA the coach gets paid 1/4 to 1/8 of the star players. And they could pay them anything, there is no salary cap on coaches. That maybe should be the guide of the relative worth of the players versus the coaches.

---

A college coach has to recruit while in the NBA that job is shared with the general manager and sometimes owner.

We tried the cheap coach thing with Wyking.

dimitrig said:

---

sluggo said:

---

calumnus said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more.

---

What is silly is that a mid major coach can increase his salary 4-8X by coming to a program that is as in bad shape as ours. I realize things are what they are, but college coaches making what they do is absurd! Yes, it is because the money is there and the fan base is hungry, but folks these are upscale PE instructors. Has gone totally whacko when you relate it to just about anything in our society.

---

This is profoundly incorrect.

---

Well admittedly the peak of their profession, but other than the money available via the lust of us fans, any reason for $3M, $5M, $9M/year? I understand how it happens but question value.

---

The old paradigm was coaches and administrators got wealthy from the huge revenues generated by sports featuring unpaid athletes. Coaches largely got paid more by getting the best unpaid athletes to play for them.

The Supreme Court officially ended that but it will take awhile for the market to adjust.

As in the thread about $125 million practice facilities,
Instead of paying Mark Fox $1.9 million a year I think there are some good coaches at lower levels that would love to make $300,000 a year while we pay eight 4 and 5 star players $200,000 a year to play for him. The results would be far better than this.

---

Cal athletics is always a little behind the curve. In the NBA the coach gets paid 1/4 to 1/8 of the star players. And they could pay them anything, there is no salary cap on coaches. That maybe should be the guide of the relative worth of the players versus the coaches.

---

A college coach has to recruit while in the NBA that job is shared with the general manager and sometimes owner.

We tried the cheap coach thing with Wyking.

---

College coaches recruit at lower levels too.

We grossly overpaid with both Wyking and Fox.

Wyking was before the NIL era. He ended up recruiting OK after bringing in too many reaches his first year. A rookie mistake. Cutting guys was ugly, I am completely opposed to that. His second class was good and the guys he brought in still profess loyalty to him:

After chasing off much of the roster when he came in, Fox brought in too many reaches. A rookie mistake for Wyking, but inexcusable for a 15 year veteran retread.

Again, the paradigm is shifting. You need a positive, player focused coach that can seek the school, location and program AND work with the boosters to get the players paid.

sluggo said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sluggo said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is silly. A mid-major head coach or top assistant can get a salary raise of 4x to 8x or more.

---

What is silly is that a mid major coach can increase his salary 4-8X by coming to a program that is as in bad shape as ours. I realize things are what they are, but college coaches making what they do is absurd! Yes, it is because the money is there and the fan base is hungry, but folks these are upscale PE instructors. Has gone totally whacko when you relate it to just about anything in our society.

---

I don't think Cal is going to reorient society with this hire. That does not seem like a realistic goal.

---

Absolutely agree. But as we go through this process, it has always bothered me. Not Cal specific, just the whole world of college coaching and its worth. Seems so out of proportion. College FB coaches making $250,000 per month. It is what it is, but doesn't mean it makes sense.

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is a good summary. For a coach with options, I think they pass this place up.
Monty was a different and unique guy.

89Bear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

This is a good summary. For a coach with options, I think they pass this place up.
Monty was a different and unique guy.

---

Yet, St. Mary's and USF have nationally relevant teams. Who at St. Mary's do you think could not be admitted to Cal? We pay more than they do. We have more fans than they do.

When we last had an opening, Jason Kidd said the Cal job is the only college job he would want.

The above list is just excuse making for Fox and Knowlton. Crazy that Knowlton is even now part of the list.

75bear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Let's see.

Bad existing facilities - check
AD that doesn't understand how to manage revenue sports - check
Hard to get players admitted - check
No fan base or attendance - check
Inheriting roster with little talent - check
No NIL for basketball - check
Near bottom of conference in salary - check
High cost of living - check

I'm sure many JC coachers would be excited by the job opening.

---

Wife - If you're this negative, then I worry all hope is lost.

Here's my rose colored response: Basketball is unique, in that one or two players can turn around a program. It's not like football where so many factors and players are needed to be firing on all cylinders (see our Offense this season, where we have a great RB, WRs, adequate QB, but an abysmal OL).

If a new basketball coach can bring in one or two dynamic players, we can start turning this around more quickly.

Therein lies the rub - we need to correctly identify the coach that can do this.

---

I would be less negative if someone other than JK was in charge of the hiring process. Think about this from the perspective of a new coach. The program has bottomed-out, and the guy who is interviewing you did that, and showed utterly no support for the program. You are either looking at someone who is dumb or desperate (read retread) to take the job. People here are acting like if we just fire Wyking or Mark or the next guy, everything will be fine, because the program is so great. Take off the blue and gold binders. The programs needs a good young coach to succeed, and you have Jim Knowlton and his search firm that wouldn't be able to assess these coaches, even if a Kyle Smith or Dennis DeVreis kicked them in the shins. And I can guarantee you they won't pay a proven coach like Dennis Gates a competitive salary. Basketball isn't that unique. You still have to identify and attract a good coach. Did I mention Jim Knowlton would be in charge of the hiring process?