Got back from the Butler game. I decided to carry out a small internal assessment during the game, and chose to solely watch Fox on the bench instead of concentrating on the on-court action.

It was really stunning to see his body language, verbal communication, and behavior towards the players/reactions to the on-court plays. He's really bad at this stuff. Every time something negative happened on the court, he'd throw his hands up, groan, look at his coaches, facepalm or start muttering to himself. Every time. No words of encouragement or motivational stuff- just pure negative energy and blame directed at the players. Scowling, eye-rolling, exasperation, you name it.

I mentioned this in the game thread, but I am absolutely certain there will be an altercation at some point this season. As Lars got subbed out at one point in the 2nd half, he slammed his hand onto his seat in frustration, the guy next to him (forget who) tried to pat him on the back and Lars slapped his hand away. I watched the bench players throughout the 2nd half, there the body language was stark- really, really bad. And to be clear, I'm not someone who over analyzes or reads too much into body language or verbal comms, but even to me this was a really clear picture. I'm telling you, at some point with the losses piling up, there will be a fight. The players are obviously unhappy playing for Fox. Even the way Fox calls for someone to check-in: he snaps at them. He called for Grant to check in and when Grant didn't immediately move, Fox snapped "Grant lets move it, go".

In any case, my main point is we all know Fox has no recruiting chops nor is he some Xs/Os wizard. But honestly he seems like an awful man to play for (and I'm not some pansy who's never played sports in his life or never had to deal with a tough coach; I've played sports my entire life and am fine dealing with hard-nosed coaches) and we're 110% going to see some blow-up this season.

As you gazed into the abyss of Mark Fox could you feel it begin to gaze back at you? Good luck with your finals!

eastcoastcal said:

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KenBurnski said:

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As you gazed into the abyss of Mark Fox could you feel it begin to gaze back at you? Good luck with your finals!

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Hahaha thanks KB. Here's a good question for y'all: would you rather have to sit down and take a year's worth (two semesters) of final exams again, or be stuck with Fox for the remainder of his contract?

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I'll take Fox then. At least we have a new OC in football.

I thought Askew would be the first to lose it, and he almost has a couple of times. It would be sad if a usually affable kid like Lars lose it. He was really rough today though - Butler guys must have really bothered him.

Seems inevitable that something awful is going to happen that could have a serious adverse impact on one or more of our student athletes. If and when that happens, the negligence of the administration in letting this horrible experiment continue will have impacted significantly more than just the finances and reputation of the university.

HoopDreams said:

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i've said before fox has terrible body language in post game interviews, but I've also seen his in game body language which is also terrible

hard to say how his interactions with the players are in game (only get glimpses), in practice and in general

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His personality was well known and has been on display for 20 years. A poster here that has consistently defended Fox said my pointing it out was "character assassination." There is a reason he cannot recruit anymore. As I have been saying since his hiring was announced he is just not a good coach for the 21st century and is a horrible fit for Cal student athletes, especially in the portal era, both in coaching strategy and personality. Just horrible.

"Everything is fine."

- Knowlton

HoopDreams said:

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What fox needed to do in the off season was AT LEAST change an assistant coach

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The problem is the head coach. Changing an assistant would do nothing.

What the AD should be doing at this point is privately interviewing the players about how they feel their experience is. This was how they justified letting Campanelli go, mid-season. Of course, Knowlton may not want to hear what they have to say.

Big C said:

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What the AD should be doing at this point is privately interviewing the players about how they feel their experience is. This was how they justified letting Campanelli go, mid-season. Of course, Knowlton may not want to hear what they have to say.

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Why would Knucklehead Knowlton do that. He honestly believes that Fox is a genius and that the problem is that the players are not performing well. Remember, he is a military guy who blames the troops not the officers.

Big C said:

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What the AD should be doing at this point is privately interviewing the players about how they feel their experience is. This was how they justified letting Campanelli go, mid-season. Of course, Knowlton may not want to hear what they have to say.

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This requires him getting off his a** so yes, while it should be done, it won't be. I'm of the opinion that Carol and Knowlton are letting our revenue sports crash - once the fan interest is gone, moving down to D2 or shutting it down becomes less of a hassle.

Econ141 said:

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Big C said:

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What the AD should be doing at this point is privately interviewing the players about how they feel their experience is. This was how they justified letting Campanelli go, mid-season. Of course, Knowlton may not want to hear what they have to say.

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This requires him getting off his a** so yes, while it should be done, it won't be. I'm of the opinion that Carol and Knowlton are letting our revenue sports crash - once the fan interest is gone, moving down to D2 or shutting it down becomes less of a hassle.

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You may be right. Then they will change the name to "Berkeley." Our fight songs will not apply, and traditions will die. We will become the West coast version of Chicago, participating in a lower division as the "Berkeley Bears." They may even replace the Big C with a B. And they will do it without any financial support from me.

southseasbear said:

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Why would Knucklehead Knowlton do that. He honestly believes that Fox is a genius and that the problem is that the players are not performing well. Remember, he is a military guy who blames the troops not the officers.

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That sounds like the exact opposite of my experience with military leadership where officers are highly accountable for the performance of their troops.

There's a lot of a vitriol here and I don't blame people for being disgusted by what we're seeing. But we need to take the long view here and stop quibbling about Fox's bench-side manner or whether Lars will ever hold onto a ball when a defender is within 3 feet (he won't).
Here's what you need to accept tonight:
- This is a lost season, and nothing will change that. I will watch all 21 losses (or whatever number it ends up being), because I'm a fan.
- Fox will lose his job. It won't happen in '22, but it will happen. No coach who makes $1.9 mil a year can go 0-for-the-season and be there next year. Not going to happen.
- 2023-2024 is also a lost season. No new coach can recruit enough players to make even an adequate team next year. Sorry current Cal students, but you'll have your diploma before the team breaks .500, that's reality.
- Cal will have to put up many millions to pay off Fox and get a top notch new guy (maybe even more expensive than Fox's. That's the business… and it is a business, let's not kid ourselves. So no use getting mad about wasted money, happens all the time in D1 sports. Stop griping and start strategizing.

NOW, can we have a useful discussion about who at a mid-major wants to be our new head coach? And how we'll convince a few great transfers like Askew to come over?
B

barsad said:

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There's a lot of a vitriol here and I don't blame people for being disgusted by what we're seeing. But we need to take the long view here and stop quibbling about Fox's bench-side manner or whether Lars will ever hold onto a ball when a defender is within 3 feet (he won't).
Here's what you need to accept tonight:
- This is a lost season, and nothing will change that. I will watch all 21 losses (or whatever number it ends up being), because I'm a fan.
- Fox will lose his job. It won't happen in '22, but it will happen. No coach who makes $1.9 mil a year can go 0-for-the-season and be there next year. Not going to happen.
- 2023-2024 is also a lost season. No new coach can recruit enough players to make even an adequate team next year. Sorry current Cal students, but you'll have your diploma before the team breaks .500, that's reality.
- Cal will have to put up many millions to pay off Fox and get a top notch new guy (maybe even more expensive than Fox's. That's the business… and it is a business, let's not kid ourselves. So no use getting mad about wasted money, happens all the time in D1 sports. Stop griping and start strategizing.

NOW, can we have a useful discussion about who at a mid-major wants to be our new head coach? And how we'll convince a few great transfers like Askew to come over?
B

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Disagree with bolded bullet point- see Iowa State this past year. Went from 2-22 to a sweet 16 team. They transferred a bunch of guys in. That is what needs to happen with the next coach. Be very clear and direct with the players (except Devin, ND, and a couple others) that realistically, there will be very little playing time for them next season. Cal will assist them with finding a grad program, work, etc. and will help transition them to a good situation, but if they stay they will not play much. Hopefully as many of our players will transfer as possible. There are far, far too many non-power caliber players on the roster and we need to be frank about that. Go out and hit the transfer portal like Iowa State did. It has never been easier to institute a rapid rebuild.

As an aside though, welcome to the forum and I agree with many of your points

eastcoastcal said:

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Got back from the Butler game. I decided to carry out a small internal assessment during the game, and chose to solely watch Fox on the bench instead of concentrating on the on-court action.

It was really stunning to see his body language, verbal communication, and behavior towards the players/reactions to the on-court plays. He's really bad at this stuff. Every time something negative happened on the court, he'd throw his hands up, groan, look at his coaches, facepalm or start muttering to himself. Every time. No words of encouragement or motivational stuff- just pure negative energy and blame directed at the players. Scowling, eye-rolling, exasperation, you name it.

I mentioned this in the game thread, but I am absolutely certain there will be an altercation at some point this season. As Lars got subbed out at one point in the 2nd half, he slammed his hand onto his seat in frustration, the guy next to him (forget who) tried to pat him on the back and Lars slapped his hand away. I watched the bench players throughout the 2nd half, there the body language was stark- really, really bad. And to be clear, I'm not someone who over analyzes or reads too much into body language or verbal comms, but even to me this was a really clear picture. I'm telling you, at some point with the losses piling up, there will be a fight. The players are obviously unhappy playing for Fox. Even the way Fox calls for someone to check-in: he snaps at them. He called for Grant to check in and when Grant didn't immediately move, Fox snapped "Grant lets move it, go".

In any case, my main point is we all know Fox has no recruiting chops nor is he some Xs/Os wizard. But honestly he seems like an awful man to play for (and I'm not some pansy who's never played sports in his life or never had to deal with a tough coach; I've played sports my entire life and am fine dealing with hard-nosed coaches) and we're 110% going to see some blow-up this season.

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This will go down as the all-time worse hire in the history of Cal. And it won't even be close (and I'm including Dirks as Chancellor in that, and he was an unmitigated disaster.).

It just infuriates me this guy gets a paycheck from us. I don't care about who hired him, or who hired who hired him... I just care that this load, this complete and total load, has anything to do with Cal.

The students - and man do I feel for you - really should go all in towards directing your ire at him. Make it uncomfortable for him. Make him see every game what a total disaster on and off the court he is. Seriously everyone should. I realize it's a long shot, but make things miserable and humiliating enough for him and maybe, just maybe he'll go to Knowlton and quit.

barsad said:

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Thanks for the welcome. It's a good point but I think we can all agree that Otzelberger and Iowa St is the exception, not the rule. Realistically you can't switch out your whole team, I'd be happy with two good transfers and being competitive every game (and more importantly having some better team spirit and player leadership).

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I'm on record back in 2019 saying Otzelberger was my first choice to replace wyking. Instead unlv hired him.

Do I know a thing about hiring college basketball coaches? - No

Can I do a simple Google search and come up with a better candidate than some consulting firm? - Yes

ducky23 said:

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barsad said:

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Thanks for the welcome. It's a good point but I think we can all agree that Otzelberger and Iowa St is the exception, not the rule. Realistically you can't switch out your whole team, I'd be happy with two good transfers and being competitive every game (and more importantly having some better team spirit and player leadership).

---

I'm on record back in 2019 saying Otzelberger was my first choice to replace wyking. Instead unlv hired him.

Do I know a thing about hiring college basketball coaches? - No

Can I do a simple Google search and come up with a better candidate than some consulting firm? - Yes

---

Seriously.

Question 1: Did the coach have a losing record at his last school? Yes.

Thank you, we're done here.

barsad said:

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There's a lot of a vitriol here and I don't blame people for being disgusted by what we're seeing. But we need to take the long view here and stop quibbling about Fox's bench-side manner or whether Lars will ever hold onto a ball when a defender is within 3 feet (he won't).
Here's what you need to accept tonight:
- This is a lost season, and nothing will change that. I will watch all 21 losses (or whatever number it ends up being), because I'm a fan.
- Fox will lose his job. It won't happen in '22, but it will happen. No coach who makes $1.9 mil a year can go 0-for-the-season and be there next year. Not going to happen.
- 2023-2024 is also a lost season. No new coach can recruit enough players to make even an adequate team next year. Sorry current Cal students, but you'll have your diploma before the team breaks .500, that's reality.
- Cal will have to put up many millions to pay off Fox and get a top notch new guy (maybe even more expensive than Fox's. That's the business… and it is a business, let's not kid ourselves. So no use getting mad about wasted money, happens all the time in D1 sports. Stop griping and start strategizing.

NOW, can we have a useful discussion about who at a mid-major wants to be our new head coach? And how we'll convince a few great transfers like Askew to come over?
B

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Josh pasternack at ucsb. Best name on the board.

I'm not convinced at all that Knowlton will fire Fox at seasons end. He (or an underling on his behalf) has explained to me that Fox inherited the worst Cal basketball program in history, had unprecedented Covid restriction, roster turnover / departures, etc. The only thing he conceded was that recruiting needed to improve. It would be completely in Knowlton's wheelhouse to excuse this season for injuries and note that recruiting did improve.

tequila4kapp said:

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I'm not convinced at all that Knowlton will fire Fox at seasons end. He (or an underling on his behalf) has explained to me that Fox inherited the worst Cal basketball program in history, had unprecedented Covid restriction, roster turnover / departures, etc. The only thing he conceded was that recruiting needed to improve. It would be completely in Knowlton's wheelhouse to excuse this season for injuries and note that recruiting did improve.

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Exactly. I can't believe anyone would take for granted that Knowlton will make a change just because we're going to end the season as either the worst or one of the worst teams of all time. For **** sake, the guy already extended Fox after a historically bad season in which he set a school conference losing record! Why would he now fire Fox for losing just a few more games?

This is why everyone needs to be aggressively vocal with their ire. Someone like Knowlton, who clearly doesn't care about Cal and is just sitting back and collecting his guaranteed millions, needs to receive constant angry correspondence, needs to have fans wearing Fire Fox shirts and make public displays of our anger, and ultimately needs to be in a situation where his boss can't stand the heat and forces him to do his job for which he's receiving $1m/year to perform.

TheFiatLux said:

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ducky23 said:

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barsad said:

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Thanks for the welcome. It's a good point but I think we can all agree that Otzelberger and Iowa St is the exception, not the rule. Realistically you can't switch out your whole team, I'd be happy with two good transfers and being competitive every game (and more importantly having some better team spirit and player leadership).

---

I'm on record back in 2019 saying Otzelberger was my first choice to replace wyking. Instead unlv hired him.

Do I know a thing about hiring college basketball coaches? - No

Can I do a simple Google search and come up with a better candidate than some consulting firm? - Yes

---

Seriously.

Question 1: Did the coach have a losing record at his last school? Yes.

Thank you, we're done here.

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Question 2: Was Fox so bad that no other college was interested and he was unemployed for a year before we hired him?

TheFiatLux said:

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This will go down as the all-time worse hire in the history of Cal. And it won't even be close (and I'm including Dirks as Chancellor in that, and he was an unmitigated disaster.).

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YUP! But what really irks me is the lack of addressing the mistake. Everyone fails now and then (or simply picks the wrong person). When that happens, the reasonable thing to do is address the situation and make a change. But in this case:

Year 1. Coming out of the Wyking disaster, we really needed a spark to turn things around. There was hope at the beginning, but by the end of year one, this looked like FOX was not the right person.

Year 2. OK - year 2, lots of hole to dig out of, but he's had a whole year - so we should expect SIGNIFICANT improvement. It didn't happen and this is when a change should have been made. AT A BARE MINIMUM, the AD should have insisted to show him and the fans that he was doing ANYTHING different in order to improve (refruiting, outreach, staff - anything).

Year 3. No changes made. Top player leaves. More of the same and downward trajectory. Well at least there is the three year turnaround excuse. BUT NO! COVID excuse and a mother****ing extension!?!?! Fan base and donors leave in droves and are told "we don't really care enough about MBB".

Year 4. The only thing that could save Fox would be an out of the gate miracle. instead we see a dejected group of players, bad behavior and an 0-7 start against some of the worst teams in MBB. Calls to the AD to act immediately to save the players are ignored.

Worst Hire. Worst Management, Worst Reaction, Worst AD