southseasbear said:

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badger said:

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I was on Wisconsin's team in the early 80's. When they players could no longer take Bill Cofield, a group of them showed up at the AD's house (Crazylegs Hirsch) to tell him Cofield had to go. Crazylegs was a football guy and didnt really care about the basketball team. However he listened and fired Cofield shortly thereafter.

Would Knowlton do the same? Would our players feel they would be listened to, or ignored?

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That is exactly what led Bob Bockrath (2nd worst AD in Cal history) to fire Campanelli.

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Knowlton is no Bockrath...

bearmanpg said:

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southseasbear said:

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badger said:

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I was on Wisconsin's team in the early 80's. When they players could no longer take Bill Cofield, a group of them showed up at the AD's house (Crazylegs Hirsch) to tell him Cofield had to go. Crazylegs was a football guy and didnt really care about the basketball team. However he listened and fired Cofield shortly thereafter.

Would Knowlton do the same? Would our players feel they would be listened to, or ignored?

---

That is exactly what led Bob Bockrath (2nd worst AD in Cal history) to fire Campanelli.

---

Knowlton is no Bockrath...

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That's why I said Bockrath was the 2nd worse AD in Cal history. Knowlton worked hard to suprass him.

bearmanpg said:

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southseasbear said:

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badger said:

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I was on Wisconsin's team in the early 80's. When they players could no longer take Bill Cofield, a group of them showed up at the AD's house (Crazylegs Hirsch) to tell him Cofield had to go. Crazylegs was a football guy and didnt really care about the basketball team. However he listened and fired Cofield shortly thereafter.

Would Knowlton do the same? Would our players feel they would be listened to, or ignored?

---

That is exactly what led Bob Bockrath (2nd worst AD in Cal history) to fire Campanelli.

---

Knowlton is no Bockrath...

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I doubt that would work.

TheFiatLux said:

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stu said:

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bearister said:

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In a business setting, that look screams at you:
"I'm eccentric. I have the power. If you don't like it, you can F@uck off!"
It's a total power move. I kinda dig that.

---

I like that Dirks could look the way he wanted to. His look is distinctive without crossing the line of scaring small children. It's power but it's also Berkeley.

This kind of power does not accrue only to those on top. Anyone who isn't looking for a promotion can exercise it. Someone in a business setting who doesn't want to become another data point supporting the Peter Principle. Someone living in People's Park who is content with it. So when I see someone in a suit I always wonder what does this person want?

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But Dirks DID personify the Peter Principle.

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Good point. But at a university, especially in Berkeley, Dirks' look might not have fallen outside of the acceptable norm.

badger said:

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I was on Wisconsin's team in the early 80's. When they players could no longer take Bill Cofield, a group of them showed up at the AD's house (Crazylegs Hirsch) to tell him Cofield had to go. Crazylegs was a football guy and didnt really care about the basketball team. However he listened and fired Cofield shortly thereafter.

Would Knowlton do the same? Would our players feel they would be listened to, or ignored?

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There is only one Badger.

Also there is one Gator.

southseasbear said:

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badger said:

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I was on Wisconsin's team in the early 80's. When they players could no longer take Bill Cofield, a group of them showed up at the AD's house (Crazylegs Hirsch) to tell him Cofield had to go. Crazylegs was a football guy and didnt really care about the basketball team. However he listened and fired Cofield shortly thereafter.

Would Knowlton do the same? Would our players feel they would be listened to, or ignored?

---

That is exactly what led Bob Bockrath (2nd worst AD in Cal history) to fire Campanelli.

---

Campy certainly needed to go. He had lost the team (turning over the post-game spread and abandoning the team after losing to James Madison at the Meadowlands really got it started, and Campy only continued to be a jerk from there, while the team didn't play inspired except when they went against Campy's wishes and played up tempo at Pauley to win by 22. The last nail was really when he ripped the team a new one after they give up an end of first half 3 pointer to WSU at Harmon to cut the lead from 20 to 17. The team responded by playing like crap in the second half and losing that 17 point halftime lead and the game. Yeah, they were done with Campy and went to the AD.

The difference between the 1992-93 Bears and the 2022-23 Bears is that the 92-93 Bears had a chance to make a decent tourney run if only they got rid of Campy mid-season, and the 22-23 Bears are still going nowhere if they get rid of Fox mid-season, even if it could make a difference of 2-4 wins IF they could get a decent outside interim.

If Bockrath had been a good AD, he would probably have gotten an outside interim rather than hire the unqualified number 2 assistant as interim -- true, the team was so talented they only really needed someone to roll the ball out and they could win most of their games, but having an actual coach would have helped in the second UCLA game and the Kansas Sweet 16 game (and would have helped us keep Haase).

The 22-23 Bears, of course, have no shot of going anywhere no matter who is the interim, so it would be hard to find an outside interim to take this crap for a partial year, and it is hard to believe any of the assistants on staff would improve things.

I suspect we'll just have Fox for the rest of the season unless Fox decides to do the honorable thing, give up millions, and quit.

My biggest memory of the Bears loss to the Cougars on 1/30/93 was that the Cougs' Tony Harris dropped close to 30 on us, many of them on Lamond Murray, who was 4" taller. Tony Harris was a f@ucking baller (he sported a rat's tail hairdo). Tony had a tragic end:

Tony Harris (basketball, born 1970) - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Harris_(basketball,_born_1970)

Cal8285 said:

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southseasbear said:

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badger said:

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I was on Wisconsin's team in the early 80's. When they players could no longer take Bill Cofield, a group of them showed up at the AD's house (Crazylegs Hirsch) to tell him Cofield had to go. Crazylegs was a football guy and didnt really care about the basketball team. However he listened and fired Cofield shortly thereafter.

Would Knowlton do the same? Would our players feel they would be listened to, or ignored?

---

That is exactly what led Bob Bockrath (2nd worst AD in Cal history) to fire Campanelli.

---

Campy certainly needed to go. He had lost the team (turning over the post-game spread and abandoning the team after losing to James Madison at the Meadowlands really got it started, and Campy only continued to be a jerk from there, while the team didn't play inspired except when they went against Campy's wishes and played up tempo at Pauley to win by 22. The last nail was really when he ripped the team a new one after they give up an end of first half 3 pointer to WSU at Harmon to cut the lead from 20 to 17. The team responded by playing like crap in the second half and losing that 17 point halftime lead and the game. Yeah, they were done with Campy and went to the AD.

The difference between the 1992-93 Bears and the 2022-23 Bears is that the 92-93 Bears had a chance to make a decent tourney run if only they got rid of Campy mid-season, and the 22-23 Bears are still going nowhere if they get rid of Fox mid-season, even if it could make a difference of 2-4 wins IF they could get a decent outside interim.

If Bockrath had been a good AD, he would probably have gotten an outside interim rather than hire the unqualified number 2 assistant as interim -- true, the team was so talented they only really needed someone to roll the ball out and they could win most of their games, but having an actual coach would have helped in the second UCLA game and the Kansas Sweet 16 game (and would have helped us keep Haase).

The 22-23 Bears, of course, have no shot of going anywhere no matter who is the interim, so it would be hard to find an outside interim to take this crap for a partial year, and it is hard to believe any of the assistants on staff would improve things.

I suspect we'll just have Fox for the rest of the season unless Fox decides to do the honorable thing, give up millions, and quit.

---

"Improve things" meaning "win games" or "improve things" meaning "not subject players to an abusive coach"? Agree that firing Campy achieved both and firing Fox would only improve one, but Campy was not fired to improve the W/L record either, that was a secondary benefit.

He will bring a ton of donor support, has a multi year track record. The losses were on the road and he has huge recruiting chops. The only sane choice

socaltownie said:

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He will bring a ton of donor support, has a multi year track record. The losses were on the road and he has huge recruiting chops. The only sane choice

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The kicker?

oskidunker said:

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socaltownie said:

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He will bring a ton of donor support, has a multi year track record. The losses were on the road and he has huge recruiting chops. The only sane choice

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The kicker?

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Saying he is "the only sane choice" is insane :-)

I will buy an argument that he is the best choice among many potentially good choices, but only if it is true that certain big donors pledge to put up big NIL money to back him.

I don't understand why so many on this board seem so in love with the kicker.

He seems like a very wilcoxian hire. Former assistant, knows the Berkeley landscape, capable, decent floor but absolutely zero upside

ducky23 said:

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I don't understand why so many on this board seem so in love with the kicker.

He seems like a very wilcoxian hire. Former assistant, knows the Berkeley landscape, capable, decent floor but absolutely zero upside

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recruited some very highly rated prospects at arizona. my #1 criteria is recruiting acumen. you can't win in the pac without recruiting in the upper echelon. need 4-stars every class and every few years a 5 star

ducky23 said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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ducky23 said:

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I don't understand why so many on this board seem so in love with the kicker.

He seems like a very wilcoxian hire. Former assistant, knows the Berkeley landscape, capable, decent floor but absolutely zero upside

---

recruited some very highly rated prospects at arizona. my #1 criteria is recruiting acumen. you can't win in the pac without recruiting in the upper echelon. need 4-stars every class and every few years a 5 star

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Recruiting is #1 #2 and #3 on my criteria. I'm not as convinced as others that he will be able to recruit to cal.

Recruiting to cal and recruiting to Arizona are two very different things.

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Bingo!

ducky23 said:

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I don't understand why so many on this board seem so in love with the kicker.

He seems like a very wilcoxian hire. Former assistant, knows the Berkeley landscape, capable, decent floor but absolutely zero upside

---

"Wilcoxian" yeah, that's good, a guy insiders have met and have affinity for. A guy who, after he left Cal was involved in an anti-Cal incident: Wilcox hiring Tosh away from Cal the week before LOI day, stealing Thompson and trashing our recruiting class, and Pasternak with "The Kick(s)" but for which all is to be forgotten since they are now taking our $millions.

That said, recruiting in the NIL era is going to be mostly about NIL.

If there are big donors who will put up big bucks to back Pasternak with NIL money we know he has experience in getting the money to the top players. He will play that game, no question. It could work.

However, all n all I'd rather we try to steal Gates from Missouri,

TheFiatLux said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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ducky23 said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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ducky23 said:

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I don't understand why so many on this board seem so in love with the kicker.

He seems like a very wilcoxian hire. Former assistant, knows the Berkeley landscape, capable, decent floor but absolutely zero upside

---

recruited some very highly rated prospects at arizona. my #1 criteria is recruiting acumen. you can't win in the pac without recruiting in the upper echelon. need 4-stars every class and every few years a 5 star

---

Recruiting is #1 #2 and #3 on my criteria. I'm not as convinced as others that he will be able to recruit to cal.

Recruiting to cal and recruiting to Arizona are two very different things.

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that's very fair & I agree- but there's pretty much nobody who'd qualify (or be interested in our job) who has a track record of success as a HC and has recruited well at a non blue-blood

Realistically in the age of NIL if the name of the game is how much money can you show to recruits, if Pasternack has the ear of the major donors then I'm all for it.

I think our best bet is someone who's been a great recruiter at a top program (arizona, duke, gonzaga, nova, etc) and is looking for an HC role. Bonus if they've won as a HC.

Legans (another name thrown out here) at portland doesn't excite me. Hasn't recruited with the big boys.

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Hey my man, what I bolded just isn't true and you're falling into the trap of a "we're CAL, so what else can we expect." The Cal job, as many many people have said, should be an awesome job. The last three years notwithstanding, you have a very active fanbase, a hotbed of recruiting and the very exciting "upside" opportunity that would attract professionals in any field.

Again, I feel bad for you because your time at Cal coincides with a historic period of suckitude, but a very short time ago, Cal was good and we were always in the top 3 in the conference in attendance.

Do yourself a favor... watch this video... it's 11 minutes, you'll love it. Watch it wearing a headset and turn up the volume. Notice how PACKED the student section is baseline to baseline... how into the alumni are.. how frenetic it is... I can send you a ton of these.

---

sorry you're right. am just pretty down on the program and I just cant believe we hired two coaches in a row that have achieved what would likely set records at almost any other P5 school for worst win-loss splits. really am just a little worried that I will close out my 4 years here having watched some of the worst teams in Cal history if the next two years remain similar to my first two. not to be a downer, just would absolutely suck to never see us play truly competitive basketball (and I haven't even had that much fun going to games this year compared to last year as the attendance is sparse, there's virtually 0 energy even in the student section, and the band/miclady haven't even come to all the games). thanks for sending the video that was awesome . I do love the program though and I'll go to all the home games & root for us to turn it around next year. Am friends with a couple guys on the team and have shot around / worked out with a couple of them too in the RSF briefly. Hope they get an upgrade in coaching next year.

I suppose the main takeaway from your spot-on post is "Can Knowlton effectively sell Cal as an enticing program to prospective coaching hires?" Can he effectively convey the awesome things about Cal (rabid fanbase that can easily be brought back, Soldiers/Prolific Prep in our backyard, high major HC job, deep donor base if accessed properly)?

calumnus said:

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Cal8285 said:

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southseasbear said:

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badger said:

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I was on Wisconsin's team in the early 80's. When they players could no longer take Bill Cofield, a group of them showed up at the AD's house (Crazylegs Hirsch) to tell him Cofield had to go. Crazylegs was a football guy and didnt really care about the basketball team. However he listened and fired Cofield shortly thereafter.

Would Knowlton do the same? Would our players feel they would be listened to, or ignored?

---

That is exactly what led Bob Bockrath (2nd worst AD in Cal history) to fire Campanelli.

---

Campy certainly needed to go. He had lost the team (turning over the post-game spread and abandoning the team after losing to James Madison at the Meadowlands really got it started, and Campy only continued to be a jerk from there, while the team didn't play inspired except when they went against Campy's wishes and played up tempo at Pauley to win by 22. The last nail was really when he ripped the team a new one after they give up an end of first half 3 pointer to WSU at Harmon to cut the lead from 20 to 17. The team responded by playing like crap in the second half and losing that 17 point halftime lead and the game. Yeah, they were done with Campy and went to the AD.

The difference between the 1992-93 Bears and the 2022-23 Bears is that the 92-93 Bears had a chance to make a decent tourney run if only they got rid of Campy mid-season, and the 22-23 Bears are still going nowhere if they get rid of Fox mid-season, even if it could make a difference of 2-4 wins IF they could get a decent outside interim.

If Bockrath had been a good AD, he would probably have gotten an outside interim rather than hire the unqualified number 2 assistant as interim -- true, the team was so talented they only really needed someone to roll the ball out and they could win most of their games, but having an actual coach would have helped in the second UCLA game and the Kansas Sweet 16 game (and would have helped us keep Haase).

The 22-23 Bears, of course, have no shot of going anywhere no matter who is the interim, so it would be hard to find an outside interim to take this crap for a partial year, and it is hard to believe any of the assistants on staff would improve things.

I suspect we'll just have Fox for the rest of the season unless Fox decides to do the honorable thing, give up millions, and quit.

---

"Improve things" meaning "win games" or "improve things" meaning "not subject players to an abusive coach"? Agree that firing Campy achieved both and firing Fox would only improve one, but Campy was not fired to improve the W/L record either, that was a secondary benefit.

---

The only context in which I used the word "improve" was that it is hard to believe any of the assistants on staff would improve things, and I suppose I meant winning any games. Maybe an assistant would improve things in terms of not subjecting players to an abusive coach.,

Unlike 30 years ago, I don't have any inside information to know what is going on, I only really see what I see at Haas or on TV, one of the reasons I didn't like going to the few games I went to last year was I didn't like seeing how Fox treated players in game, but a) I don't know what is otherwise going on, and b) I really don't know if any assistants would "improve" things even in that respect. But maybe, even if it probably doesn't help winning.

Nobody but Bockrath knows what was going on in the mind of Bockrath when he made the decision to fire Campy. Campy needed to go because he had lost the team, and he had lost the team because of at least some of his abusive behavior (and if you don't call flipping over the team spread and abandoning the team at the arena "abusive," then also that). By 2022 standards he needed to go for his behavior (and by my personal 1993 standards, I wanted him gone for his behavior), but it was inevitable that the W/L record was going to improve with Campy's firing unless Bockrath hired an interim coach that couldn't earn the players' respect, which even for Bockrath would have been stupid.

Did Bob Bockrath really care about no longer subjecting players to an abusive coach, did he only care about avoiding the team imploding and losing most of the rest of the games instead of winning most of them and making a tourney run, or did he care about both? I think only Bockrath knows for sure, but I can imagine any of those three possibilities being true.

oskidunker said:

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ducky23 said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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ducky23 said:

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I don't understand why so many on this board seem so in love with the kicker.

He seems like a very wilcoxian hire. Former assistant, knows the Berkeley landscape, capable, decent floor but absolutely zero upside

---

recruited some very highly rated prospects at arizona. my #1 criteria is recruiting acumen. you can't win in the pac without recruiting in the upper echelon. need 4-stars every class and every few years a 5 star

---

Recruiting is #1 #2 and #3 on my criteria. I'm not as convinced as others that he will be able to recruit to cal.

Recruiting to cal and recruiting to Arizona are two very different things.

---

Bingo!

---

Maybe. We lost kids like Gordon to Arizona that should have been, given his statements at the time and future progression a LOCK for Cal.

TheFiatLux said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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ducky23 said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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ducky23 said:

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I don't understand why so many on this board seem so in love with the kicker.

He seems like a very wilcoxian hire. Former assistant, knows the Berkeley landscape, capable, decent floor but absolutely zero upside

---

recruited some very highly rated prospects at arizona. my #1 criteria is recruiting acumen. you can't win in the pac without recruiting in the upper echelon. need 4-stars every class and every few years a 5 star

---

Recruiting is #1 #2 and #3 on my criteria. I'm not as convinced as others that he will be able to recruit to cal.

Recruiting to cal and recruiting to Arizona are two very different things.

---

that's very fair & I agree- but there's pretty much nobody who'd qualify (or be interested in our job) who has a track record of success as a HC and has recruited well at a non blue-blood

Realistically in the age of NIL if the name of the game is how much money can you show to recruits, if Pasternack has the ear of the major donors then I'm all for it.

I think our best bet is someone who's been a great recruiter at a top program (arizona, duke, gonzaga, nova, etc) and is looking for an HC role. Bonus if they've won as a HC.

Legans (another name thrown out here) at portland doesn't excite me. Hasn't recruited with the big boys.

---

Hey my man, what I bolded just isn't true and you're falling into the trap of a "we're CAL, so what else can we expect." The Cal job, as many many people have said, should be an awesome job. The last three years notwithstanding, you have a very active fanbase, a hotbed of recruiting and the very exciting "upside" opportunity that would attract professionals in any field.

Again, I feel bad for you because your time at Cal coincides with a historic period of suckitude, but a very short time ago, Cal was good and we were always in the top 3 in the conference in attendance.

Do yourself a favor... watch this video... it's 11 minutes, you'll love it. Watch it wearing a headset and turn up the volume. Notice how PACKED the student section is baseline to baseline... how into the alumni are.. how frenetic it is... I can send you a ton of these.

---

Thank you Ken. i remember that game screaming at my TV in joy from sunny San Diego. #firefox #makecalgreatagain

TheFiatLux said:

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Do yourself a favor... watch this video... it's 11 minutes, you'll love it. Watch it wearing a headset and turn up the volume. Notice how PACKED the student section is baseline to baseline... how into the alumni are.. how frenetic it is... I can send you a ton of these.

---

Oh man, the legend of Jorge was born that day. 2* Frosh comes off the bench down by 22 and wills the Cal comeback with the most relentless defense I have ever seen. The YouTube vid didn't do it justice!

Here's another example of what the atmosphere can be like in Haas:



and this perspective gives a better feel for the atmosphere:

GoCal80 said:

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Here's another example of what the atmosphere can be like in Haas:



and this perspective gives a better feel for the atmosphere:

---

This was SOCAL Townie Jr's first game in Haas. Fingers crossed as his first choice in Cal when he applies next year.

Does someone have the game where Amit Tamir dropped 39 on Oregon. One of my favorite games. Also Leon Powe going for like 40 against Oregon at the Pac-10 tournament. Good ol days.

eastcoastcal said:

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ducky23 said:

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I don't understand why so many on this board seem so in love with the kicker.

He seems like a very wilcoxian hire. Former assistant, knows the Berkeley landscape, capable, decent floor but absolutely zero upside

---

recruited some very highly rated prospects at arizona. my #1 criteria is recruiting acumen. you can't win in the pac without recruiting in the upper echelon. need 4-stars every class and every few years a 5 star

---

Recruiting at Arizona is not recruiting at Cal.

KoreAmBear said:

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Does someone have the game where Amit Tamir dropped 39 on Oregon. One of my favorite games. Also Leon Powe going for like 40 against Oregon at the Pac-10 tournament. Good ol days.

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Amit liked himself some Duck.

Cal Upsets Ducks In Double OT, 107-103 - California Golden Bears Athletics


https://calbears.com/news/2002/2/9/207732371.aspx


Cal Upsets No. 12 Oregon - The Washington Post


https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/2003/01/10/cal-upsets-no-12-oregon/d5866c04-0e5f-49b0-9d7e-306a52c09585/

*I brought my Dad to Amit's 39 point game.

KoreAmBear said:

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Does someone have the game where Amit Tamir dropped 39 on Oregon. One of my favorite games. Also Leon Powe going for like 40 against Oregon at the Pac-10 tournament. Good ol days.

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I took my dad to Staples to watch Big Leon crush the ducks. That was awesome!!

tequila4kapp said:

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The current state of Cal hoops is criminal. I don't care if the next coach killed Jason Kidd's puppy. I just want the new person to be here now and some reason to believe things will finally be better.

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The current state of Cal hoops IS criminal. I don't want, however, want our next coach to be someone who killed Jason Kidd's puppy, or anybody's puppy, unless a) it was an accident for which the coach has apologized, or b) the coach used to be a vet who euthanized the puppy in an appropriate circumstance.

But guess what? Even if we make it a requirement that the coach not have killed a puppy, we can make a quality hire. Cal can make a hire that will give us reason to believe things will finally be better.

Whether Cal DOES make such a hire is another matter, and there's no way that person will be here today, or tomorrow, or next week. Even if Fox gets fired today, we're not going to do better than an interim until the season is over.

KoreAmBear said:

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Does someone have the game where Amit Tamir dropped 39 on Oregon. One of my favorite games. Also Leon Powe going for like 40 against Oregon at the Pac-10 tournament. Good ol days.

---

To add to that Oregon game, one of our illustrious posters at the time went on just a classic, scorched earth rant when we were getting smoked by the ducks in the first half before Tamir went off. And that is why you wait until the game is over before you commit to heavily to a position.