The rebounding, or lack of it. We are getting killed on the boards, in just about every single game. You can't score if you don't have the ball. Any thoughts?

SFCityBear said:

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The rebounding, or lack of it. We are getting killed on the boards, in just about every single game. You can't score if you don't have the ball. Any thoughts?

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It's unforgivable, as I read somewhere that we are the 5th or 6th tallest team in D1. The off-ball movement is not good either. Generally the development is less than desirable, as many of our players haven't shown much improvement over the last couple years.

KoreAmBear said:

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I cringe because I see our forwards and centers standing there as if the ball will come to them because they have initial position. I don't see guys looking to find a body to seal off.

Besides that Fox has really mismanaged the roster, his coaching fundamentals have just been dirt poor. I mean at least get the fundamentals down. Boxing out has nothing to do with talent, and the worst team in the Patriot League can do it.

Also, because we should be desperate about scoring baskets, how about either go all in on just shooting volume threes or perhaps just run and attack the basket more since we have a lot of athletes and not shooters. I would prefer the latter as I don't think even volume threes would help us. But either option is better than a half court slow down offense throwing the ball around for most of the shot clock and heaving up desperation fadeaways -- that's our offense with this personnel?

I've never seen a worse coaching job ever, even with the cards that was dealt to him (which actually wasn't handed to him by anyone since he constructed this roster).

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Agree 100%

By infinity + 1.

bearister said:

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By infinity + 1.

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I'm fine with that. Not all infinities are the same.

bearister said:

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I went back on the ESPN app and you would be surprised that the aggregate differential isn't that large. Santa Clara happened to blow us up by getting 12 more boards. 5 or 6 boards is usually the biggest differential.

Our lack of shooters dwarfs all other shortcomings by an exponential factor. We can't create scoring distance and we can't close a scoring gap. A lethal combination. If we ever get a lead, one run by the opponent does us in.

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And when you can't shoot everything else on offense is harder

Driving lanes are shut down, double teams when Lars does get the ball, and defenders hunting for charges

Econ141 said:

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So what I'm gathering from this thread is that we can't rebound, can't shoot, and can't pass and we don't develop talent.

Thank God it's not the coaching.

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Well, it must be the recruiting then. A coaching staff of Red Auerback, Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden, Coach K, and Bobby Knight couldn't teach a group of young players how to rebound, shoot, and pass in a few weeks of pre-conference play. Especially when they have to learn to play some defense at the same time, which is just as important as the offensive skills you mentioned. And most players arrive in college with few or no defensive skills whatever.

SFCityBear said:

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Econ141 said:

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So what I'm gathering from this thread is that we can't rebound, can't shoot, and can't pass and we don't develop talent.

Thank God it's not the coaching.

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Well, it must be the recruiting then. A coaching staff of Red Auerback, Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden, Coach K, and Bobby Knight couldn't teach a group of young players how to rebound, shoot, and pass in a few weeks of pre-conference play. Especially when they have to learn to play some defense at the same time, which is just as important as the offensive skills you mentioned. And most players arrive in college with few or no defensive skills whatever.

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Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden and Coach K all coached college kids, How is that an excuse?

stu said:

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bearister said:

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Our lack of shooters dwarfs all other shortcomings by an exponential factor.

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I agree our shooting problem is worse than our other problems. By a large factor. By a humongous factor. By a ginormous factor. By a factor measured in gazillions. But as a science major I wouldn't say "exponential". That requires another quantity, like time in compound interest.

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I do think we might as well play bigger and address the rebounding issue. Playing multiple guards that cannot shoot or rebound hasn't worked.

calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Econ141 said:

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So what I'm gathering from this thread is that we can't rebound, can't shoot, and can't pass and we don't develop talent.

Thank God it's not the coaching.

---

Well, it must be the recruiting then. A coaching staff of Red Auerback, Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden, Coach K, and Bobby Knight couldn't teach a group of young players how to rebound, shoot, and pass in a few weeks of pre-conference play. Especially when they have to learn to play some defense at the same time, which is just as important as the offensive skills you mentioned. And most players arrive in college with few or no defensive skills whatever.

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Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden and Coach K all coached college kids, How is that an excuse?

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Also we have guys who have been in the system 3-4 years who haven't gotten appreciably better, esp. on offense. We also had our Euro tour and practices for 3-4 weeks including before and after the trip. Coach K would have our team playing like .500 ball at least.

KoreAmBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Econ141 said:

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So what I'm gathering from this thread is that we can't rebound, can't shoot, and can't pass and we don't develop talent.

Thank God it's not the coaching.

---

Well, it must be the recruiting then. A coaching staff of Red Auerback, Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden, Coach K, and Bobby Knight couldn't teach a group of young players how to rebound, shoot, and pass in a few weeks of pre-conference play. Especially when they have to learn to play some defense at the same time, which is just as important as the offensive skills you mentioned. And most players arrive in college with few or no defensive skills whatever.

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Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden and Coach K all coached college kids, How is that an excuse?

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Also we have guys who have been in the system 3-4 years who haven't gotten appreciably better, esp. on offense. We also had our Euro tour and practices for 3-4 weeks including before and after the trip. Coach K would have our team playing like .500 ball at least.

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Not sure. Fox has assembled a team with strangely similar characteristics: 1) forwards/centers with length but little offense and 2) guards who can drive but can't shoot. Horrible for spacing. It leaves little room to devise an offense, just replacing one guy for a similar guy. There is no way to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.

calumnus said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Econ141 said:

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So what I'm gathering from this thread is that we can't rebound, can't shoot, and can't pass and we don't develop talent.

Thank God it's not the coaching.

---

Well, it must be the recruiting then. A coaching staff of Red Auerback, Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden, Coach K, and Bobby Knight couldn't teach a group of young players how to rebound, shoot, and pass in a few weeks of pre-conference play. Especially when they have to learn to play some defense at the same time, which is just as important as the offensive skills you mentioned. And most players arrive in college with few or no defensive skills whatever.

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Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden and Coach K all coached college kids, How is that an excuse?

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Also we have guys who have been in the system 3-4 years who haven't gotten appreciably better, esp. on offense. We also had our Euro tour and practices for 3-4 weeks including before and after the trip. Coach K would have our team playing like .500 ball at least.

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Not sure. Fox has assembled a team with strangely similar characteristics: 1) forwards/centers with length but little offense and 2) guards who can drive but can't shoot. Horrible for spacing. It leaves little room to devise an offense, just replacing one guy for a similar guy. There is no way to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.

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It can absolutely happen. The sum could also be worse than the parts a la Bozeman and Lavin.

If we had better fundamentals for rebounding, if some of our guards could have been developed to be more efficient as shooters over 3-4 years, we don't play this sorry azz slow down ball and use some of our athleticism, we would do way better than under Fox. Otherwise, you're kind of saying he's not a bad Xs and Os guy, which is not true. The game has passed him by. Sorry but he sucks bad. Like the worst in D1 at this point.

Well, consistent with my first post in this thread, Bears got out boarded by Utes by 5, which doesn't account for a 15 point loss, but turnovers, assists and FT percentage did us in. Both teams shot poorly from the floor.

The fraud is favored over utah by 1.5.

oskidunker said:

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The fraud is favored over utah by 1.5.

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$100k on Utes. Give the 1.5.

bearister said:

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oskidunker said:

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The fraud is favored over utah by 1.5.

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$100k on Utes. Give the 1.5.

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stanford lost to a much better Colorado by 3

besides Carlson, I didn't think Utah had much talent

I think stanford beats them

HoopDreams said:

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bearister said:

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oskidunker said:

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The fraud is favored over utah by 1.5.

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$100k on Utes. Give the 1.5.

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stanford lost to a much better Colorado by 3

besides Carlson, I didn't think Utah had much talent

I think stanford beats them

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My man will contact your man to set up the $100k wager. I get Utes and 1.5.

My man, Joe:

bearister said:

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HoopDreams said:

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bearister said:

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oskidunker said:

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The fraud is favored over utah by 1.5.

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$100k on Utes. Give the 1.5.

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stanford lost to a much better Colorado by 3

besides Carlson, I didn't think Utah had much talent

I think stanford beats them

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My man will contact your man to set up the $100k wager. I get Utes and 1.5.

My man, Joe:

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sorry, I never bet on coach Haase

HoopDreams said:

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bearister said:

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oskidunker said:

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The fraud is favored over utah by 1.5.

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$100k on Utes. Give the 1.5.

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stanford lost to a much better Colorado by 3

besides Carlson, I didn't think Utah had much talent

I think stanford beats them

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I think Utah and Colorado are comparable. Stanford too, but Haase is horrible.

HoopDreams said:

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bearister said:

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HoopDreams said:

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bearister said:

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oskidunker said:

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The fraud is favored over utah by 1.5.

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$100k on Utes. Give the 1.5.

---

stanford lost to a much better Colorado by 3

besides Carlson, I didn't think Utah had much talent

I think stanford beats them

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My man will contact your man to set up the $100k wager. I get Utes and 1.5.

My man, Joe:

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sorry, I never bet on coach Haase

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You shouldn't speak ill of our next coach after Fox. HAASE IN THE HAAS!

bearister said:

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You shouldn't speak ill of our next coach after Fox. HAASE IN THE HAAS!

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Hiring Haase in 2023 would be eerily similar to hiring Fox in 2019. We need a preemptive strike to get this idea out of Knowlton's mind.

HoopDreams said:

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bearister said:

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HoopDreams said:

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bearister said:

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oskidunker said:

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The fraud is favored over utah by 1.5.

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$100k on Utes. Give the 1.5.

---

stanford lost to a much better Colorado by 3

besides Carlson, I didn't think Utah had much talent

I think stanford beats them

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My man will contact your man to set up the $100k wager. I get Utes and 1.5.

My man, Joe:

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sorry, I never bet on coach Haase

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I got someone else to make the $100k bet on Furd and give me Utes and 1.5.
My man Joe is gassing up the car to pick up my winnings.

stu said:

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bearister said:

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You shouldn't speak ill of our next coach after Fox. HAASE IN THE HAAS!

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Hiring Haase in 2023 would be eerily similar to hiring Fox in 2019. We need a preemptive strike to get this idea out of Knowlton's mind.

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It would be like Knowlton to pay Haase's buyout when Stanford is about to fire him.

calumnus said:

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stu said:

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bearister said:

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You shouldn't speak ill of our next coach after Fox. HAASE IN THE HAAS!

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Hiring Haase in 2023 would be eerily similar to hiring Fox in 2019. We need a preemptive strike to get this idea out of Knowlton's mind.

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It would be like Knowlton to pay Haase's buyout when Stanford is about to fire him.

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"His impeccable track record of recruiting of elite scholar athletes."

calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Econ141 said:

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So what I'm gathering from this thread is that we can't rebound, can't shoot, and can't pass and we don't develop talent.

Thank God it's not the coaching.

---

Well, it must be the recruiting then. A coaching staff of Red Auerback, Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden, Coach K, and Bobby Knight couldn't teach a group of young players how to rebound, shoot, and pass in a few weeks of pre-conference play. Especially when they have to learn to play some defense at the same time, which is just as important as the offensive skills you mentioned. And most players arrive in college with few or no defensive skills whatever.

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Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden and Coach K all coached college kids, How is that an excuse?

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That is an easy one, and the answer was implied in my post. In Auerbach's, Newell's, Wooden's, and Bobby Knight's day, most players arrived in college having already learned defensive skills, and most fundamentals had been already mastered. What they mostly learned in college was more sophisticated teamwork at both ends. Coach K's career spanned both generations. I suspect he would tell you that the modern recruit pool includes far more players who have yet to master basic individual skills than the recruits he saw in his early years as a coach.

KoreAmBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Econ141 said:

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So what I'm gathering from this thread is that we can't rebound, can't shoot, and can't pass and we don't develop talent.

Thank God it's not the coaching.

---

Well, it must be the recruiting then. A coaching staff of Red Auerback, Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden, Coach K, and Bobby Knight couldn't teach a group of young players how to rebound, shoot, and pass in a few weeks of pre-conference play. Especially when they have to learn to play some defense at the same time, which is just as important as the offensive skills you mentioned. And most players arrive in college with few or no defensive skills whatever.

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Pete Newell, Johnny Wooden and Coach K all coached college kids, How is that an excuse?

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Also we have guys who have been in the system 3-4 years who haven't gotten appreciably better, esp. on offense. We also had our Euro tour and practices for 3-4 weeks including before and after the trip. Coach K would have our team playing like .500 ball at least.

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Coach K has never had to deal with a roster of unskilled players. In 1980 he took over a Duke that had lost in the Elite 8 the year before, and inherited 3 future NBA players, Gene Banks, Vince Taylor, and Kenny Dennard. He has never had to search the nooks and crannies that Cal coaches have to pick through. He has lived a charmed life since. Great basketball school, great reputation. He easily recruits roster after roster which includes 5 or 10 or even more top 100 recruits. A few top top 20 recruits in almost every roster are almost automatic for him. Coaching those recruits, his biggest problem is having only one basketball, and getting his players to share it. Most of them are used to being the best player in their league, on their team, and they all want the ball. I'm not sure coach K would remember how to coach kids with few skills like Cal often has (projects). Maybe he had a little of that type of recruit to coach at West Point 45 years ago.

People don't realize how tough the Cal job is, compared to Duke. We were great once, in the Newell era, passable in the Braun and Montgomery eras. We got top players in the Bozeman years and made a little noise in the NCAA, but we got caught for recruiting violations. The NCAA doesn't look at Duke for recruiting violations. Usually only the upstart schools. The Cal job has buried great coaches, much better coaches than Fox: Newell, Herrerias, (a great assistant, and the best high school coach in SF history), a great recruiter like Jim Padgett, a very good coach in Dick Edwards, along with Kuchen, Campanelli, and Braun. Montgomery retired, but left a good roster for Cuonzo, and he added two fine recruits, but in the end, he left as well. Wyking was forced out. Cal is just a tough place to be a successful coach.

Your comment about players arriving at college lacking the fundamentals was touched on by Brad Duggan in his blunt, 2 x 4 on the head style in this 20 year old article:

"The game itself hasn't changed," he said, "but the quality of coaching and playing has gone way down. There are too many guys coaching who aren't capable of teaching a first-grader how to open a carton of chocolate milk."

WHERE ARE THEY NOW / Ex-coach still drives in high gear


https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/WHERE-ARE-THEY-NOW-Ex-coach-still-drives-in-2865463.php

*Come on, SFCB, I'm counting on you to have some Brad Duggan stories.