KoreAmBear said:
Wow spot on for everything except saying that we are small. We are not. But we still get outrebounded. It is the coaching.
Well, when he was on field with Marshawn and Justin they failed to identify him as a Cal BB alum, but I think they did recognize him as the artist of the poster giveaway (and if anyone has an extra they don't want pls lmk), I wasn't at the game.BC Calfan said:
Good Ol' Rod took it very easy on us. I wonder if Fox and Knowlton even knew who he was.
When Thiemann goes out we're quite small in the front court.KoreAmBear said:
Wow spot on for everything except saying that we are small. We are not. But we still get outrebounded. It is the coaching.
concernedparent said:When Thiemann goes out we're quite small in the front court.KoreAmBear said:
Wow spot on for everything except saying that we are small. We are not. But we still get outrebounded. It is the coaching.
HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
It's not the biggest part.Big C said:
I thought Benson went out of his way to be fair to Fox. What he noticed about our offense is exactly what I've seen this season. Part of it is the players themselves and their skill sets, part of it is that the staff has assembled these players and the biggest part is that it's up to the coaches to coach 'em up... and these guys are demonstrating game in and game out that they have no clue.
BearSD said:It's not the biggest part.Big C said:
I thought Benson went out of his way to be fair to Fox. What he noticed about our offense is exactly what I've seen this season. Part of it is the players themselves and their skill sets, part of it is that the staff has assembled these players and the biggest part is that it's up to the coaches to coach 'em up... and these guys are demonstrating game in and game out that they have no clue.
The biggest part is recruiting. Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. It's bringing in players who have both a lot of talent when they first arrive, and have a high ceiling. If a recruit is meh in the first place, and/or is someone who looked good in high school but peaked in 11th grade, then there's no amount of coaching them up that will turn a roster full of players like that into an NCAA tournament team.
Knowlton is partially correct. It is difficult at Cal, but not for the reasons he expressed. It is difficult because our current and previous athletic directors were incompetent idiots, as evidenced by the coaches they hired and the contracts they "negotiated" with them.eastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
Mind you, in the bay area itself, USF and St. Mary's have better records (and have even beat us out for prospects!) while having far less funds/resources, less academic caliber to sell recruits on, no practice facility for USF.
The truth is, for the better part of 3 decades, Cal made the tournament more often than every other year. Some of the best teams in college basketball are academic brands: Duke, UVA, Michigan, UNC, UCLA, etc. We have a very loud basketball fanbase that will show up for a winner. During Shocky's monster class years, we were competing with blue bloods like UNC for recruits! Haas is a nice place to play. We are a top academic brand in the world. Beautiful weather year-round. We even have donors who've stepped up in the housing department (thanks 4thGen!), albeit that's a more recent development.
College basketball is so unbelievably winnable for a school like Cal, yet here we are, the worst high major team in the nation and a bottom 60 team in D1 most likely. The level of losing over the past 5 years is just inexcusable, and I understand the limitations with NIL + housing + practice facility but the truth is, that doesn't even come close to meriting how bad of a program we've run. At nearly any other power program, these results get the AD, coaches, and all staff canned.
I understand we'll almost certainly move on from Fox after this season. And hopefully the next coach will right the ship. But I truly hate hearing, especially from Knowlton & Fox, how "difficult of a situation" it is. How can you sell fans, prospective coaching hires, recruits, and parents on Cal if you internally believe this is a bad situation? It will inevitably show up in the way you sell Cal to all these people and I am willing to bet that is the issue Knowlton has. He remarked about how all his coaching interviews mentioned how difficult it will be to turn Cal around- really? You're telling me Gates was that reluctant? You're telling me Kidd, even if he wasn't truly interested, was willing to publicly state Cal is the only college job he'd take even though he believed the job sucks? My honest theory is that Knowlton doesn't realize the level of success Cal has had in basketball. We're not just an average school- historically in the preceeding 3 decades, we were a good basketball school. I think Knowlton just views us as a loser that at best can compete for the middle of the conference. That's ridiculous and we should consistently be in the upper 3rd. Sure, UCLA, Arizona might be in a different echelon. But no reason why we can't place ourselves in the tier below on an annual basis.
My point is, I really hate hearing from the people who run our department & program how terrible of a job the Cal basketball program is. It's not. We expect our academic programs to be top 5 in the country. We have the best aquatics programs in the nation. Our golf team just recruited the top recruiting class. Our researchers discover new elements and energy sources. Our graduates found multi-billion dollar companies. Striving for mediocrity and acceptance of poor results enrages me, especially when Knowlton & his hire parrots the same nonsense over and over again
That's small in the front court. Ivan Rabb, listed at 6'11, couldn't stay at C for us even though it would've made our offense so much better.calumnus said:concernedparent said:When Thiemann goes out we're quite small in the front court.KoreAmBear said:
Wow spot on for everything except saying that we are small. We are not. But we still get outrebounded. It is the coaching.
Okafor 6'9
Kuany 6'9
Newell 6'8
We have 9 players listed at 6'7 or more.
Rod Bentsen was listed at 6'10
Quote:
I felt myself struggling to stay awake, and I noticed a Utah State staffer full-on falling asleep. If that guy had died of boredom that day, no one would have blamed him.
Agree totally. Quit embarrassing the university , the alumni and the players. Frankly I am at a point where I wish we would just stop playingbearister said:
Either drop sports or compete. Don't trap us in an expensive ($2M coach salary) Groundhog Day netherworld of sub mediocrity and half a@ssness which shames and disrespects our proud and sacred traditions.
I wonder why we are all so sure that Knowlton is solely responsible for this debacle. I have wondered from the beginning how often is a manager who makes a million dollar salary, allowed or instructed to hire an employee will be making twice as much as he himself is paid? I should think that those above Knowlton would at least investigate the AD's hiring choices, especially for the head coaches of two major sport programs, football and basketball, and subsequently approve or disapprove them. Isn't it also possible that the choice for these two positions might have been suggested, maybe strongly so, by the Chancellor herself or someone as high or higher up?eastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
Mind you, in the bay area itself, USF and St. Mary's have better records (and have even beat us out for prospects!) while having far less funds/resources, less academic caliber to sell recruits on, no practice facility for USF.
The truth is, for the better part of 3 decades, Cal made the tournament more often than every other year. Some of the best teams in college basketball are academic brands: Duke, UVA, Michigan, UNC, UCLA, etc. We have a very loud basketball fanbase that will show up for a winner. During Shocky's monster class years, we were competing with blue bloods like UNC for recruits! Haas is a nice place to play. We are a top academic brand in the world. Beautiful weather year-round. We even have donors who've stepped up in the housing department (thanks 4thGen!), albeit that's a more recent development.
College basketball is so unbelievably winnable for a school like Cal, yet here we are, the worst high major team in the nation and a bottom 60 team in D1 most likely. The level of losing over the past 5 years is just inexcusable, and I understand the limitations with NIL + housing + practice facility but the truth is, that doesn't even come close to meriting how bad of a program we've run. At nearly any other power program, these results get the AD, coaches, and all staff canned.
I understand we'll almost certainly move on from Fox after this season. And hopefully the next coach will right the ship. But I truly hate hearing, especially from Knowlton & Fox, how "difficult of a situation" it is. How can you sell fans, prospective coaching hires, recruits, and parents on Cal if you internally believe this is a bad situation? It will inevitably show up in the way you sell Cal to all these people and I am willing to bet that is the issue Knowlton has. He remarked about how all his coaching interviews mentioned how difficult it will be to turn Cal around- really? You're telling me Gates was that reluctant? You're telling me Kidd, even if he wasn't truly interested, was willing to publicly state Cal is the only college job he'd take even though he believed the job sucks? My honest theory is that Knowlton doesn't realize the level of success Cal has had in basketball. We're not just an average school- historically in the preceeding 3 decades, we were a good basketball school. I think Knowlton just views us as a loser that at best can compete for the middle of the conference. That's ridiculous and we should consistently be in the upper 3rd. Sure, UCLA, Arizona might be in a different echelon. But no reason why we can't place ourselves in the tier below on an annual basis.
My point is, I really hate hearing from the people who run our department & program how terrible of a job the Cal basketball program is. It's not. We expect our academic programs to be top 5 in the country. We have the best aquatics programs in the nation. Our golf team just recruited the top recruiting class. Our researchers discover new elements and energy sources. Our graduates found multi-billion dollar companies. Striving for mediocrity and acceptance of poor results enrages me, especially when Knowlton & his hire parrots the same nonsense over and over again
I couldn't believe they put this on the scoreboard before the gameeastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
Wow! That's weak!HoopDreams said:
I couldn't believe they put this on the scoreboard before the game
oh woe is usHoopDreams said:I couldn't believe they put this on the scoreboard before the gameeastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
MSaviolives said:oh woe is usHoopDreams said:I couldn't believe they put this on the scoreboard before the gameeastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
dimitrig said:MSaviolives said:oh woe is usHoopDreams said:I couldn't believe they put this on the scoreboard before the gameeastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
42 is also how many months ago Fox and Knowlton should have been fired
HoopDreams said:I couldn't believe they put this on the scoreboard before the gameeastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:I couldn't believe they put this on the scoreboard before the gameeastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
OMFG. They did not put this up! What a fu-king embarrassment. Cal is dead to me…
HoopDreams said:I couldn't believe they put this on the scoreboard before the gameeastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
SFCityBear said:I wonder why we are all so sure that Knowlton is solely responsible for this debacle. I have wondered from the beginning how often is a manager who makes a million dollar salary, allowed or instructed to hire an employee will be making twice as much as he himself is paid? I should think that those above Knowlton would at least investigate the AD's hiring choices, especially for the head coaches of two major sport programs, football and basketball, and subsequently approve or disapprove them. Isn't it also possible that the choice for these two positions might have been suggested, maybe strongly so, by the Chancellor herself or someone as high or higher up?eastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
Mind you, in the bay area itself, USF and St. Mary's have better records (and have even beat us out for prospects!) while having far less funds/resources, less academic caliber to sell recruits on, no practice facility for USF.
The truth is, for the better part of 3 decades, Cal made the tournament more often than every other year. Some of the best teams in college basketball are academic brands: Duke, UVA, Michigan, UNC, UCLA, etc. We have a very loud basketball fanbase that will show up for a winner. During Shocky's monster class years, we were competing with blue bloods like UNC for recruits! Haas is a nice place to play. We are a top academic brand in the world. Beautiful weather year-round. We even have donors who've stepped up in the housing department (thanks 4thGen!), albeit that's a more recent development.
College basketball is so unbelievably winnable for a school like Cal, yet here we are, the worst high major team in the nation and a bottom 60 team in D1 most likely. The level of losing over the past 5 years is just inexcusable, and I understand the limitations with NIL + housing + practice facility but the truth is, that doesn't even come close to meriting how bad of a program we've run. At nearly any other power program, these results get the AD, coaches, and all staff canned.
I understand we'll almost certainly move on from Fox after this season. And hopefully the next coach will right the ship. But I truly hate hearing, especially from Knowlton & Fox, how "difficult of a situation" it is. How can you sell fans, prospective coaching hires, recruits, and parents on Cal if you internally believe this is a bad situation? It will inevitably show up in the way you sell Cal to all these people and I am willing to bet that is the issue Knowlton has. He remarked about how all his coaching interviews mentioned how difficult it will be to turn Cal around- really? You're telling me Gates was that reluctant? You're telling me Kidd, even if he wasn't truly interested, was willing to publicly state Cal is the only college job he'd take even though he believed the job sucks? My honest theory is that Knowlton doesn't realize the level of success Cal has had in basketball. We're not just an average school- historically in the preceeding 3 decades, we were a good basketball school. I think Knowlton just views us as a loser that at best can compete for the middle of the conference. That's ridiculous and we should consistently be in the upper 3rd. Sure, UCLA, Arizona might be in a different echelon. But no reason why we can't place ourselves in the tier below on an annual basis.
My point is, I really hate hearing from the people who run our department & program how terrible of a job the Cal basketball program is. It's not. We expect our academic programs to be top 5 in the country. We have the best aquatics programs in the nation. Our golf team just recruited the top recruiting class. Our researchers discover new elements and energy sources. Our graduates found multi-billion dollar companies. Striving for mediocrity and acceptance of poor results enrages me, especially when Knowlton & his hire parrots the same nonsense over and over again
A related issue for me was in a post by Beached Bear, I believe, where he said that he had a conversation with an employee on Knowlton's staff. The employee told him that it was the plan of either Knowlton or the the Athletic Department, I don't remember, to deemphasize basketball. I can not believe that a decision to deemphasize a major sport would be made at the AD level. It would have to be approved at least by the AD's boss, wouldn't it? And isn't the very idea of deemphasizing a major sport more likely to have come from the Chancellor of someone higher?
HoopDreams said:I couldn't believe they put this on the scoreboard before the gameeastcoastcal said:This is the fundamental issue I have with Knowlton- he doesn't seem to believe Cal is a great place to win. In my 1 conversation with him, as well as his public remarks, he constantly defaults to "how difficult of a situation" Fox inherited, and then the long list of excuses begin: COVID, no practice facility, NIL, fan apathy.calumnus said:HKBear97! said:HoopDreams said:
I was surprised by the utah state results because the rumor out there was cal did pretty good (although the reference was vague)
utah state is 9-1 however
Well, bear in mind who those rumors came from. Many of them refuse to face reality about Fox and this program. Rod nailed it right off the bat that he didn't think we would win a game. That's as damning as it gets.
The amount of coach/AD propaganda that comes out of our football and basketball programs and is spread by our insiders is disheartening.
This is the most pathetically sad thing I've ever seen.HoopDreams said:
I couldn't believe they put this on the scoreboard before the game
