BearGreg said:

---

I could not find the original post - which is more than a bit embarrassing given I'm the publisher. That said, it's pertinent information right now. Reminder that it's a year old so not reflective of recent roster changes, e.g. Kelly leaving and Clayton arriving.

Cal's Historic Place in the Pac-12: (Looking Back at where Cal has finished in the Pac 12 over the past 19 years)

3rd, 4th, 8th, 3rd, 8th, 9th, 3rd,1st, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 8th, 3rd, 5th, 12th, 12th, 12th and now 10th/11th

Until Wyking Jones was hired, Cal finished in the top half of the conference almost 75% of the time

And the top three, more than 50% of the time

This is a historically very good basketball program with a deep reservoir of fan and donor interest with consistently strong attendance.

Mike Williams decision to hire Wyking Jones set us back. Unfortunately, Mark Fox's tenure has not resulted in any better conference results and arguably the worst accumulator of talent in the last 35 years.

The key to winning in college basketball is Recruiting. You simply cannot win consistently if you are not a strong recruiting program, led by a head coach and staff with a strong recruiting resume. No matter how much time you give a head coach at Cal who is a subpar recruiter, it's nearly impossible to imagine such a person ever winning at the consistent level that Cal enjoyed for fifteen years prior to Wyking Jones arrival.

Cal's Recruiting Track Record:

Top 100 Players who signed an NLI with Cal

While we know that academic requirements and the lack of a practice facility have negatively impact the Bears ability to recruit, they've historically overcome that in their ability to land solid classes

2006 - (2) Ryan Anderson and Patrick Christopher
2007 - None
2008 - (1) DJ Seeley
2009 - None
2010 - (1) Allen Crabbe, Richard Solomon was 109th
2011 - None
2012 - (1) Tyrone Wallace
2013 - (2) Jabari Bird and Jordan Mathews
2014 - None
2015 - (2) Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb
2016 - (1) Charlie Moore
2017 - (1) JeMarl Baker* (Signed NLI but backed out and matriculated to Kentucky) -
2018 - (1) Matt Bradley - 5th out of 10 in Pac 12
2019 - None
2020 - None
2021 - None
2022 - None

From 2006 to 2018, Cal averaged having between the 5th and 6th best class on a per average player rating basis in the Pac 12. Since 2019, we've averaged the 11th best class

Mark Fox Recruiting Resume:

(Data from 247 Sports, based on the average ranking of a recruit. Note that the data for 2010 class, Fox's first at Georgia was not available)

Georgia:

2011 Class = 9th in SEC (out of 14 teams)
2012 = 4th
2013 = 11th
2014 = 14th
2015 = 9th
2016 = 6th
2017 = 11th

So his average class at Georgia was 9th out of 14

California:

2019: 10th in the Pac-12* (He arrived late so inherited Joel Brown and DJ Thorpe and had little time to recruit so this year you give him a pass)
2020: 9th
2021: 10th
2022 (thus far): 11th

Fox's average at Cal is 11th in the Pac-12

Recruiting is not only about rankings out of HS/JC, it's also about scouting as evidenced by WSU's HC Kyle Smith who has the following class ranking results:

2019: 12th
2020: 10th
2021: 9th
2022: 12th

Yet Kyle has won 18 Pac-12 games the past two years and has a young and very talented roster (five of their top six scorers return next year with three being Freshman or Sophomores)

Cal's Current Roster's Recruiting Rankings:

We'll go from youngest to oldest - all per 247s aggregated rankings (they rank @350-500 preps each year)

Grant Newell - 295th
ND Okafor - 192nd
Sam Alajiki - N/A
Marsalis Roberson - 157th
Obinna Anyanwu - 199th
Monty Bowser - 131st
Jalen Celestine - 413th
Joel Brown - 195th
DJ Thorpe - 203rd
Kuany Kuany - 371st
Dimitrios Klonaras - 526th
Lars Thiemann - N/A
Grant Anticevich - 273rd
Andre Kelly - 320th

Transfers who came in after HS prep rankings when they did leave HS:

Makale Foreman - N/A
Jarred Hyder - 446th
Jordan Shephard - 313th

---

eastcoastcal said:

---

Thanks for the post & this is why I don't buy a lot of the excuses Knowlton & co seem to employ. Yes, admittedly NIL has changed the calculus-- but the other issues re practice facility/nutrition/transportation are not new, yet we historically managed to recruit extremely effectively.

Even regarding NIL, given Cal's deep (and historically engaged) donor base with basketball and long track record of success, NIL funds could be found if given any reason for optimism. Why would a deep pocketed donor sign a big check to a coach that obviously will never lead us anywhere near the tournament? It's clear that Fox's ceiling maybe is 7th or 8th in the conference and that even might be a stretch. Our donors are successful, smart people. They understand where they'll get their ROI and where they won't. They recognize that putting $ into Fox's program is essentially shoveling it into the ground and layering concrete over it.

Cal does have its drawbacks and inhibitors. But it is not a coincidence that many of the top brands in basketball are high caliber academic schools. Duke, UNC, UVA, Michigan, UCLA, etc. Even Stanford manages to recruit very well and Haase sucks as a coach! Players want to play for a coach that can showcase offense, produce scoring numbers that talent evaluators in the NBA will take notice of, and will connect with them. Obviously Fox does none of these. And to not replace a single one of his staff over 4 miserable years is even more unbelievable.

I woke up this morning pretty mad about our program. It's just unreal to me that keeping Fox is even on the table. If we do keep him, we are completely unserious about basketball and will justifiably be laughed at in the media. I get the fiscal reality that money must be found but there is absolutely no way 3.6M dollars is a barrier. If it is, then we should sincerely give up because that is nothing. I've met Berkeley VCs who'll sign a check for more than that without a passing glance. Cmon.

---

BearGreg said:

---

I could not find the original post - which is more than a bit embarrassing given I'm the publisher. That said, it's pertinent information right now. Reminder that it's a year old so not reflective of recent roster changes, e.g. Kelly leaving and Clayton arriving.

Cal's Historic Place in the Pac-12: (Looking Back at where Cal has finished in the Pac 12 over the past 19 years)

3rd, 4th, 8th, 3rd, 8th, 9th, 3rd,1st, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 8th, 3rd, 5th, 12th, 12th, 12th and now 10th/11th

Until Wyking Jones was hired, Cal finished in the top half of the conference almost 75% of the time

And the top three, more than 50% of the time

This is a historically very good basketball program with a deep reservoir of fan and donor interest with consistently strong attendance.

Mike Williams decision to hire Wyking Jones set us back. Unfortunately, Mark Fox's tenure has not resulted in any better conference results and arguably the worst accumulator of talent in the last 35 years.

The key to winning in college basketball is Recruiting. You simply cannot win consistently if you are not a strong recruiting program, led by a head coach and staff with a strong recruiting resume. No matter how much time you give a head coach at Cal who is a subpar recruiter, it's nearly impossible to imagine such a person ever winning at the consistent level that Cal enjoyed for fifteen years prior to Wyking Jones arrival.

Cal's Recruiting Track Record:

Top 100 Players who signed an NLI with Cal

While we know that academic requirements and the lack of a practice facility have negatively impact the Bears ability to recruit, they've historically overcome that in their ability to land solid classes

2006 - (2) Ryan Anderson and Patrick Christopher
2007 - None
2008 - (1) DJ Seeley
2009 - None
2010 - (1) Allen Crabbe, Richard Solomon was 109th
2011 - None
2012 - (1) Tyrone Wallace
2013 - (2) Jabari Bird and Jordan Mathews
2014 - None
2015 - (2) Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb
2016 - (1) Charlie Moore
2017 - (1) JeMarl Baker* (Signed NLI but backed out and matriculated to Kentucky) -
2018 - (1) Matt Bradley - 5th out of 10 in Pac 12
2019 - None
2020 - None
2021 - None
2022 - None

From 2006 to 2018, Cal averaged having between the 5th and 6th best class on a per average player rating basis in the Pac 12. Since 2019, we've averaged the 11th best class

Mark Fox Recruiting Resume:

(Data from 247 Sports, based on the average ranking of a recruit. Note that the data for 2010 class, Fox's first at Georgia was not available)

Georgia:

2011 Class = 9th in SEC (out of 14 teams)
2012 = 4th
2013 = 11th
2014 = 14th
2015 = 9th
2016 = 6th
2017 = 11th

So his average class at Georgia was 9th out of 14

California:

2019: 10th in the Pac-12* (He arrived late so inherited Joel Brown and DJ Thorpe and had little time to recruit so this year you give him a pass)
2020: 9th
2021: 10th
2022 (thus far): 11th

Fox's average at Cal is 11th in the Pac-12

Recruiting is not only about rankings out of HS/JC, it's also about scouting as evidenced by WSU's HC Kyle Smith who has the following class ranking results:

2019: 12th
2020: 10th
2021: 9th
2022: 12th

Yet Kyle has won 18 Pac-12 games the past two years and has a young and very talented roster (five of their top six scorers return next year with three being Freshman or Sophomores)

Cal's Current Roster's Recruiting Rankings:

We'll go from youngest to oldest - all per 247s aggregated rankings (they rank @350-500 preps each year)

Grant Newell - 295th
ND Okafor - 192nd
Sam Alajiki - N/A
Marsalis Roberson - 157th
Obinna Anyanwu - 199th
Monty Bowser - 131st
Jalen Celestine - 413th
Joel Brown - 195th
DJ Thorpe - 203rd
Kuany Kuany - 371st
Dimitrios Klonaras - 526th
Lars Thiemann - N/A
Grant Anticevich - 273rd
Andre Kelly - 320th

Transfers who came in after HS prep rankings when they did leave HS:

Makale Foreman - N/A
Jarred Hyder - 446th
Jordan Shephard - 313th

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

BearGreg said:

---

I could not find the original post - which is more than a bit embarrassing given I'm the publisher. That said, it's pertinent information right now. Reminder that it's a year old so not reflective of recent roster changes, e.g. Kelly leaving and Clayton arriving.

Cal's Historic Place in the Pac-12: (Looking Back at where Cal has finished in the Pac 12 over the past 19 years)

3rd, 4th, 8th, 3rd, 8th, 9th, 3rd,1st, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 8th, 3rd, 5th, 12th, 12th, 12th and now 10th/11th

Until Wyking Jones was hired, Cal finished in the top half of the conference almost 75% of the time

And the top three, more than 50% of the time

This is a historically very good basketball program with a deep reservoir of fan and donor interest with consistently strong attendance.

Mike Williams decision to hire Wyking Jones set us back. Unfortunately, Mark Fox's tenure has not resulted in any better conference results and arguably the worst accumulator of talent in the last 35 years.

The key to winning in college basketball is Recruiting. You simply cannot win consistently if you are not a strong recruiting program, led by a head coach and staff with a strong recruiting resume. No matter how much time you give a head coach at Cal who is a subpar recruiter, it's nearly impossible to imagine such a person ever winning at the consistent level that Cal enjoyed for fifteen years prior to Wyking Jones arrival.

Cal's Recruiting Track Record:

Top 100 Players who signed an NLI with Cal

While we know that academic requirements and the lack of a practice facility have negatively impact the Bears ability to recruit, they've historically overcome that in their ability to land solid classes

2006 - (2) Ryan Anderson and Patrick Christopher
2007 - None
2008 - (1) DJ Seeley
2009 - None
2010 - (1) Allen Crabbe, Richard Solomon was 109th
2011 - None
2012 - (1) Tyrone Wallace
2013 - (2) Jabari Bird and Jordan Mathews
2014 - None
2015 - (2) Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb
2016 - (1) Charlie Moore
2017 - (1) JeMarl Baker* (Signed NLI but backed out and matriculated to Kentucky) -
2018 - (1) Matt Bradley - 5th out of 10 in Pac 12
2019 - None
2020 - None
2021 - None
2022 - None

From 2006 to 2018, Cal averaged having between the 5th and 6th best class on a per average player rating basis in the Pac 12. Since 2019, we've averaged the 11th best class

Mark Fox Recruiting Resume:

(Data from 247 Sports, based on the average ranking of a recruit. Note that the data for 2010 class, Fox's first at Georgia was not available)

Georgia:

2011 Class = 9th in SEC (out of 14 teams)
2012 = 4th
2013 = 11th
2014 = 14th
2015 = 9th
2016 = 6th
2017 = 11th

So his average class at Georgia was 9th out of 14

California:

2019: 10th in the Pac-12* (He arrived late so inherited Joel Brown and DJ Thorpe and had little time to recruit so this year you give him a pass)
2020: 9th
2021: 10th
2022 (thus far): 11th

Fox's average at Cal is 11th in the Pac-12

Recruiting is not only about rankings out of HS/JC, it's also about scouting as evidenced by WSU's HC Kyle Smith who has the following class ranking results:

2019: 12th
2020: 10th
2021: 9th
2022: 12th

Yet Kyle has won 18 Pac-12 games the past two years and has a young and very talented roster (five of their top six scorers return next year with three being Freshman or Sophomores)

Cal's Current Roster's Recruiting Rankings:

We'll go from youngest to oldest - all per 247s aggregated rankings (they rank @350-500 preps each year)

Grant Newell - 295th
ND Okafor - 192nd
Sam Alajiki - N/A
Marsalis Roberson - 157th
Obinna Anyanwu - 199th
Monty Bowser - 131st
Jalen Celestine - 413th
Joel Brown - 195th
DJ Thorpe - 203rd
Kuany Kuany - 371st
Dimitrios Klonaras - 526th
Lars Thiemann - N/A
Grant Anticevich - 273rd
Andre Kelly - 320th

Transfers who came in after HS prep rankings when they did leave HS:

Makale Foreman - N/A
Jarred Hyder - 446th
Jordan Shephard - 313th

---

Someone should send this to JK and CC. I know, the response will be it is a matter of money. We have money for a new basketball facility, but no money to get a decent coach. TypiCal.

---