Can Mark Fox (sadly) save his job

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socaltownie
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9:50a, 2/14/23
So 7 games left. 4 on the road and 2 at home. The Washingtons will be favored but there is a possibility of winning those. Ditto Oregon State. As of today we would open against ASU in the conference tournie but there is such a mess right now in the middle of the conference who knows.

Any predictions? THere is no way Mark Fox _SHOULD_ be able to save job but I fear that if we got 2-5 he does. 4-3 or god forbid 5-2 or a win in the tournie and I know JK is brining him back.

I have never rooted against Cal but I am going to start. Another year of this mess is just terrifying.
Take care of your Chicken
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stu
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10:23a, 2/14/23
I agree our best chances are against UW, WSU, and OSU. But since we've won only 2 of 14 conference games I expect the most likely outcome is we win only 1 more. I think a Pac-12 tourney win is extremely unlikely.

Even if we should somehow win 4 our overall record would still be the worst in Cal history. Also FWIW a strong finish didn't save Jones' job. But it's hard to account for the affinity factor
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HearstMining
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In reply to stu • 11:17a, 2/14/23
stu said:
I agree our best chances are against UW, WSU, and OSU. But since we've won only 2 of 14 conference games I expect the most likely outcome is we win only 1 more. I think a Pac-12 tourney win is extremely unlikely.

Even if we should somehow win 4 our overall record would still be the worst in Cal history. Also FWIW a strong finish didn't save Jones' job. But it's hard to account for the affinity factor
But as I understand it, KNOWLTON WOULD NOT HAVE FIRED WYKING if a few hot-shot donors had not forced the change. The situation is quite different now:
  • Back then, Knowlton was still sort of the new kid on the block. Now he appears to really have Christ's ear.
  • I don't know if the donors ponied up the $$ for Wyking's severance, but it's clear that Knowlton expects them to pay for Fox's considerably larger amount.
  • Interest in Cal basketball has declined considerably from the tepid level of the Wyking era and Knowlton is betting that if he does nothing, the complaints will die down over the summer and the complainers will just walk away.

Bottom line: Unless Knowlton leaves, regardless of the final season results, I think we're stuck with Fox for another year.

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bearister
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In reply to HearstMining • 11:31a, 2/14/23
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).


Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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southseasbear
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In reply to bearister • 11:45a, 2/14/23
bearister said:
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).


Things are so bad now I'd gladly take Wyking back.
Fire Knowlton!
Fire Fox!
Put Wilcox in a hot seat!
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HearstMining
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In reply to bearister • 11:59a, 2/14/23
bearister said:
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).


Nothing a dose of Ex-Lax wouldn't fix.
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Big C
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1:38p, 2/14/23

I predict we win one more (catch UW, WSU or OSU on a cold-shooting day) and Fox does lose his job. I'm not gonna lie, if we win two more (less likely, but possible), I'm gonna be a little nervous in early March.

I am hard-wired to root for Cal Basketball and Cal Football to win each and every game we play and so I'm gonna do that, but two or, especially, three more wins and I'll get a little queasy. Fairly unlikely that we'd win three more, though, IMO.
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oskidunker
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1:55p, 2/14/23
What if knowlton was fired before fox? Limbo. Fox gets another year as a world wide search goes on for new ad
Go Bears!
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ducky23
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In reply to oskidunker • 2:01p, 2/14/23
oskidunker said:
What if knowlton was fired before fox? Limbo. Fox gets another year as a world wide search goes on for new ad


I'd gladly take one more year of fox if it meant getting rid of knowlton. Gladly!!!!!!!
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PtownBear1
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2:23p, 2/14/23
I don't think it makes a difference. My impression from Knowlton is that he doesn't give a **** and will avoid having to do work if at all possible. So I don't think he would take any action whether Fox went 0-30 or 15-15. If and when some higher powers force him to do his job, that's when Fox will be gone.
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Golden One
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2:41p, 2/14/23
Not to worry, there is no way this Cal team is going to win anymore games this season. We're looking forward to a 2-19 conference record and 3-30 overall. In spite of that, I'll be very surprised if Fox gets fired. Knowlton always has an excuse for inaction.
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CalLifer
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In reply to PtownBear1 • 2:42p, 2/14/23
PtownBear1 said:
I don't think it makes a difference. My impression from Knowlton is that he doesn't give a **** and will avoid having to do work if at all possible. So I don't think he would take any action whether Fox went 0-30 or 15-15. If and when some higher powers force him to do his job, that's when Fox will be gone.
I think it's worse... I think he is actively fighting having to do his job (does anyone here think that even the second worst P5 AD wouldn't have already fired Fox?). We are lapping the field in the race for the worst P5 AD.
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parentswerebears
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2:44p, 2/14/23
I really don't think it matters whether they win or lose. Fox and Knowlton will still be here next year and still be destroying athletics at Cal.
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HearstMining
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In reply to bearister • 2:55p, 2/14/23
bearister said:
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).

.
.
.
What pissed me off about Wyking was how the players looked to be so completely un-coached.
Fox's guys are trying to do what he tells them. It may not be the best thing, and the players have some talent limitations, but they're more or less moving in concert. Wyking's guys looked like five guys who just met at the playground.
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SFCALBear72
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In reply to socaltownie • 3:14p, 2/14/23
socaltownie said:
So 7 games left. 4 on the road and 2 at home. The Washingtons will be favored but there is a possibility of winning those. Ditto Oregon State. As of today we would open against ASU in the conference tournie but there is such a mess right now in the middle of the conference who knows.

Any predictions? THere is no way Mark Fox _SHOULD_ be able to save job but I fear that if we got 2-5 he does. 4-3 or god forbid 5-2 or a win in the tournie and I know JK is brining him back.

I have never rooted against Cal but I am going to start. Another year of this mess is just terrifying.
Interesting math. 4 + 2 = 7. lol.
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calumnus
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In reply to SFCALBear72 • 3:29p, 2/14/23
SFCALBear72 said:
socaltownie said:
So 7 games left. 4 on the road and 2 at home. The Washingtons will be favored but there is a possibility of winning those. Ditto Oregon State. As of today we would open against ASU in the conference tournie but there is such a mess right now in the middle of the conference who knows.

Any predictions? THere is no way Mark Fox _SHOULD_ be able to save job but I fear that if we got 2-5 he does. 4-3 or god forbid 5-2 or a win in the tournie and I know JK is brining him back.

I have never rooted against Cal but I am going to start. Another year of this mess is just terrifying.
Interesting math. 4 + 2 = 7. lol.


1 PAC-12 tournament game on a neutral court.
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SFCALBear72
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In reply to calumnus • 3:33p, 2/14/23
calumnus said:
SFCALBear72 said:
socaltownie said:
So 7 games left. 4 on the road and 2 at home. The Washingtons will be favored but there is a possibility of winning those. Ditto Oregon State. As of today we would open against ASU in the conference tournie but there is such a mess right now in the middle of the conference who knows.

Any predictions? THere is no way Mark Fox _SHOULD_ be able to save job but I fear that if we got 2-5 he does. 4-3 or god forbid 5-2 or a win in the tournie and I know JK is brining him back.

I have never rooted against Cal but I am going to start. Another year of this mess is just terrifying.
Interesting math. 4 + 2 = 7. lol.


1 PAC-12 tournament game on a neutral court.
I guess I should have read further. Or your line could have been added:

"So 7 games left. 4 on the road and 2 at home. 1 potential neutral site game."
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calumnus
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In reply to SFCALBear72 • 3:47p, 2/14/23
SFCALBear72 said:
calumnus said:
SFCALBear72 said:
socaltownie said:
So 7 games left. 4 on the road and 2 at home. The Washingtons will be favored but there is a possibility of winning those. Ditto Oregon State. As of today we would open against ASU in the conference tournie but there is such a mess right now in the middle of the conference who knows.

Any predictions? THere is no way Mark Fox _SHOULD_ be able to save job but I fear that if we got 2-5 he does. 4-3 or god forbid 5-2 or a win in the tournie and I know JK is brining him back.

I have never rooted against Cal but I am going to start. Another year of this mess is just terrifying.
Interesting math. 4 + 2 = 7. lol.


1 PAC-12 tournament game on a neutral court.
I guess I should have read further. Or your line could have been added:

"So 7 games left. 4 on the road and 2 at home. 1 potential neutral site game."


The first round game in the PAC-12 Tournament in Vegas is guaranteed. There are 12 (?) potential games after that if we win and keep on winning. Safe to say Fox keeps his job if we win all of those.
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SFCityBear
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In reply to SFCALBear72 • 3:53p, 2/14/23
SFCALBear72 said:
socaltownie said:
So 7 games left. 4 on the road and 2 at home. The Washingtons will be favored but there is a possibility of winning those. Ditto Oregon State. As of today we would open against ASU in the conference tournie but there is such a mess right now in the middle of the conference who knows.

Any predictions? THere is no way Mark Fox _SHOULD_ be able to save job but I fear that if we got 2-5 he does. 4-3 or god forbid 5-2 or a win in the tournie and I know JK is brining him back.

I have never rooted against Cal but I am going to start. Another year of this mess is just terrifying.
Interesting math. 4 + 2 = 7. lol.
If you don't know arithmetic by the time you reach Cal, they are not going to teach it to you there. Nowadays, you might not be able to find a teacher at any level who can teach such low brow stuff. Kids just ask a calculator or a phone to do it, or so it seems.
SFCityBear
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bearister
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In reply to SFCityBear • 4:20p, 2/14/23
SFCityBear said:
…Kids just ask a calculator or a phone to do it, or so it seems.


Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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Cal8285
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In reply to HearstMining • 5:27p, 2/14/23
HearstMining said:
bearister said:
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).

.
.
.
What pissed me off about Wyking was how the players looked to be so completely un-coached.
Fox's guys are trying to do what he tells them. It may not be the best thing, and the players have some talent limitations, but they're more or less moving in concert. Wyking's guys looked like five guys who just met at the playground.
It was threes thing about Wyking that annoyed me. One is what you mentioned, the players looking so uncoached. You say it looked like five guys who just met at the playground, I say it looked like my nephew's CYO team when he was in 4th-5th grade, either way, uncoached. Yeah, the W/L record was hard to take, but if the guys could have played fundamental basketball, the W/L probably wouldn't have been so bad.

A second annoying thing is what bearister wrote, the Theo situation -- there's no excuse for how that went down. A third thing is the way he handled Winston and McCullough. I wish Jones could have take lessons from Justin Wilcox about how to encouraging players to leave, the Jones way is idiotic and wrong.

While Jones probably would have a better record than Fox right now (the players would still look uncoached, but the talent level would be better and the Bears would have won more OOC games), I would not gladly take Jones back. The only reason I didn't give up my season tickets during the Jones era is that he only lasted two years, and I didn't bail until Fox got a 4th season. I realize I'm stating the obvious, but Cal needs to have a much better coach than either Jones or Fox. I have only a modicum of hope that it will happen while Knowlton is AD.
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bearister
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In reply to Cal8285 • 5:36p, 2/14/23
I would end the program before taking Wyking Jones back. Give me some Theo.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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JimSox
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In reply to calumnus • 6:14p, 2/14/23
calumnus said:
SFCALBear72 said:
calumnus said:
SFCALBear72 said:
socaltownie said:
So 7 games left. 4 on the road and 2 at home. The Washingtons will be favored but there is a possibility of winning those. Ditto Oregon State. As of today we would open against ASU in the conference tournie but there is such a mess right now in the middle of the conference who knows.

Any predictions? THere is no way Mark Fox _SHOULD_ be able to save job but I fear that if we got 2-5 he does. 4-3 or god forbid 5-2 or a win in the tournie and I know JK is brining him back.

I have never rooted against Cal but I am going to start. Another year of this mess is just terrifying.
Interesting math. 4 + 2 = 7. lol.


1 PAC-12 tournament game on a neutral court.
I guess I should have read further. Or your line could have been added:

"So 7 games left. 4 on the road and 2 at home. 1 potential neutral site game."


The first round game in the PAC-12 Tournament in Vegas is guaranteed. There are 12 (?) potential games after that if we win and keep on winning. Safe to say Fox keeps his job if we win all of those.


Ha ha. Good one!
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philbert
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7:19p, 2/14/23
this thread depresses me
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dimitrig
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9:10p, 2/14/23

Fire Fox tomorrow morning.

There is no reason to wait.

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sonofabear51
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9:15p, 2/14/23
Agreed. There is no reason to delay this anymore.
Start Slowly and taper off
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MinotStateBeav
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5:31a, 2/15/23
The Good news about the Pac12 Tourney is that it will be a good platform for our guys to showoff to the NBA scouts.
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BeachedBear
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In reply to HearstMining • 7:30a, 2/15/23
HearstMining said:
bearister said:
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).

.
.
.
What pissed me off about Wyking was how the players looked to be so completely un-coached.
Fox's guys are trying to do what he tells them. It may not be the best thing, and the players have some talent limitations, but they're more or less moving in concert. Wyking's guys looked like five guys who just met at the playground.
This. And all the players looked miserable. For me, that was the worst to observe - its about the players and they seemed to be truly suffering under Jones.
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calumnus
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In reply to BeachedBear • 9:14a, 2/15/23
BeachedBear said:
HearstMining said:
bearister said:
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).

.
.
.
What pissed me off about Wyking was how the players looked to be so completely un-coached.
Fox's guys are trying to do what he tells them. It may not be the best thing, and the players have some talent limitations, but they're more or less moving in concert. Wyking's guys looked like five guys who just met at the playground.
This. And all the players looked miserable. For me, that was the worst to observe - its about the players and they seemed to be truly suffering under Jones.


No one is happy with losing, but they rallied and looked like they were having fun winning the last 3 games starting with an upset of #25 UW at Haas and ending with a win over Stanford at Maples.

Oh and by the end of the season the offense was FAR better (certainly better than under Fox). Good ball movement for open threes or drives.



And guys like Vanover, Sueing, Bradley and Kelly still speak fondly of Jones, who they signed up with after all.

For me it was four things in order: 1) chasing off guys he offered scholarships to (unforgivable) 2) the W/L record 3) not recognizing his best players and best lineup soon enough 4) pushing tempo too soon in the team's development

If we had hired Gates, DeCuire or Smith at that point I'd have been happy. Knowlton hiring Fox was devastating. If I knew Fox would be the result I would have preferred to give Jones another year to see if he could build on the progress his young team showed at the end of the season.
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Cal8285
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In reply to BeachedBear • 10:01a, 2/15/23
BeachedBear said:
HearstMining said:
bearister said:
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).

.
.
.
What pissed me off about Wyking was how the players looked to be so completely un-coached.
Fox's guys are trying to do what he tells them. It may not be the best thing, and the players have some talent limitations, but they're more or less moving in concert. Wyking's guys looked like five guys who just met at the playground.
This. And all the players looked miserable. For me, that was the worst to observe - its about the players and they seemed to be truly suffering under Jones.
That reminds me of one I blocked out, a fourth thing that annoyed me about Jones. The players not only looking miserable, but far too often playing as though they didn't care. The lack of effort was disturbing much of the time.

While I can't say we get max effort all the time under Fox, the most surprising thing about the Fox era to me has been how often the effort is there, in spite of all that is wrong. Even when the team is down in the second half, there is often effort. Definitely more effort than Jones was able to get out of his team.

Whether Jones or Fox, however, pointing out anything positive is like pointing out the positives in the sinking of the Titanic -- well, at least they had more lifeboats than were legally required!
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Big C
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In reply to Cal8285 • 3:32p, 2/15/23
Cal8285 said:
BeachedBear said:
HearstMining said:
bearister said:
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).

.
.
.
What pissed me off about Wyking was how the players looked to be so completely un-coached.
Fox's guys are trying to do what he tells them. It may not be the best thing, and the players have some talent limitations, but they're more or less moving in concert. Wyking's guys looked like five guys who just met at the playground.
This. And all the players looked miserable. For me, that was the worst to observe - its about the players and they seemed to be truly suffering under Jones.
That reminds me of one I blocked out, a fourth thing that annoyed me about Jones. The players not only looking miserable, but far too often playing as though they didn't care. The lack of effort was disturbing much of the time.

While I can't say we get max effort all the time under Fox, the most surprising thing about the Fox era to me has been how often the effort is there, in spite of all that is wrong. Even when the team is down in the second half, there is often effort. Definitely more effort than Jones was able to get out of his team.

Whether Jones or Fox, however, pointing out anything positive is like pointing out the positives in the sinking of the Titanic -- well, at least they had more lifeboats than were legally required!

Yes, that is now what we're reduced to: Comparing and discussing the many shortcomings of our last two, very unsuccessful basketball coaches.

Looking towards a brighter future.
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HoopDreams
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In reply to calumnus • 7:45a, 2/17/23
calumnus said:
BeachedBear said:
HearstMining said:
bearister said:
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).

.
.
.
What pissed me off about Wyking was how the players looked to be so completely un-coached.
Fox's guys are trying to do what he tells them. It may not be the best thing, and the players have some talent limitations, but they're more or less moving in concert. Wyking's guys looked like five guys who just met at the playground.
This. And all the players looked miserable. For me, that was the worst to observe - its about the players and they seemed to be truly suffering under Jones.
And guys like Vanover, Sueing, Bradley and Kelly still speak fondly of Jones.


They do?
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HearstMining
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In reply to HoopDreams • 8:07a, 2/17/23
HoopDreams said:
calumnus said:
BeachedBear said:
HearstMining said:
bearister said:
As much as I can't believe I'm typing this, odds are Wyking would have a better record right now than the Foxmeister does…..plus, the Foxorama and his courtside demeanor is exponentially more annoying than Wyking (who really didn't annoy me other than his W/L record and his ruckus with our beloved Theo).

.
.
.
What pissed me off about Wyking was how the players looked to be so completely un-coached.
Fox's guys are trying to do what he tells them. It may not be the best thing, and the players have some talent limitations, but they're more or less moving in concert. Wyking's guys looked like five guys who just met at the playground.
This. And all the players looked miserable. For me, that was the worst to observe - its about the players and they seemed to be truly suffering under Jones.
And guys like Vanover, Sueing, Bradley and Kelly still speak fondly of Jones.


They do?
You beat me to the punch on this one. I'd be shocked if, now that they have the perspective of having been coached by other college coaches, they still speak as fondly of Jones.
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Cabin14
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In reply to Big C • 9:30a, 2/17/23
Really don't see any way THIS team, coached by THIS man, is doubling it's win total in the final 2 weeks of the season…

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bluehenbear
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In reply to Cabin14 • 9:54a, 2/17/23
Cabin14 said:

Quote:
Really don't see any way THIS team, coached by THIS man, is doubling it's win total winning a game in the final 2 weeks of the season…
FIFY

or maybe even more realistic

Really don't see any way THIS team, coached by THIS man, is doubling it's win total will be competitive in the final 2 weeks of the season…
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