southseasbear said:

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socaltownie said:

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Bill love you dearly but as the father of an African American son with a 4.5 weighted, 1540 sat, 8 amd counting aps, and grandson of a 30 year tenured faculty member if Martin's son had gotten into Berkeley while my kid has maybe a 50 50 shot I would be pissed.

If Martin failed to grasp cal does NOT have legacies he wasn't paying attention. He was done a favor with a wait list with a 3.6 from piedmont and 2 college educated parents.

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My parents went to Cal as did all their friends. I attended and graduated from Cal. Neither of my children were admitted but attended another UC. I have no problem with the children of head coaches being admitted if they have a 3.6 GPAs.

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Shocky1 said:

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quinn taylor had a 3.5 gpa at monte vista high school in danville, fyi

here's more info re: cal athletics silver bullet admissions program
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/110786/72

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BearoutEast67 said:

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Shocky1 said:

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https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/110786/replies/2136902

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Let it go. Cuonzo was a mediocre recruiter at best, save for 2 great classes in 14, but a weak coach. Ancient history.

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concernedparent said:

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Cuonzo also failed to make the tournament with 2 NBA players, a promising freshman, a very good role player in Grant Mullins, two 7 footers who could protect the paint, and a handful of other seniors who went on to have overseas or G-league careers. Cuonzo's teams perpetually underperformed.

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calumnus said:

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Civil Bear said:

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Big C said:

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I have no idea how much Cuonzo's kid not getting into Cal affected his leaving, but even besides that, there were plenty of other "good enough" reasons to leave (especially if you add a few together)
- got jerked around on his Cal contract
- got hung out to dry with l'Affaire Yanni
- insufficient practice facilities and even not 100% access to said
- couldn't get a couple of recruits admitted (should've known, but... )
- more money from Mizzou
- surely more support from Mizzou in terms of admissions and facilities
- Mizzou fairly close to his home turf

I thought Cuonzo Martin was a stand-up guy. Could've coached 'em up better on the offensive end and fine-tuned his "Plan B vs. Plan C" recruiting, but nobody's perfect. Look at where we've been at since he left.

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You might want to add to your list:
- Don Coleman was his best returning player had he stayed.

Unbelievable as this may sound, Cuanzo leaving was no great loss. His resume after getting canned from Missry is actually weaker than Fox's before Fox came to Cal. People get all stary-eyed over the Brown/Rabb class, but top 5 recruits that consider themselves Berkley intellectuals and top 10 local recruits don't come around that often, particularly in the same class, and let's not forget Cuanzo had two other pro prospects from a prior coach on that team (Bird & Wallace). Martin has never had another roster that has come close to that in his 14-year career.

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He also got Marcus Lee to transfer back. Justice Sueing was brought in by Jones, but he also was attracted to the education and Cal's history and reputation for promoting social Justice.

I do think that people here underestimate the degree to which Cal and Berkeley can be very attractive to smart, progressive African American young men who are also good basketball players, but you need a coach who can embrace and sell that. Martin did, but he certainly is not unique in that regard. Obviously being African American himself can help, but mostly the coach needs to be a teacher, not a disciplinarian and control freak.

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Jeff82 said:

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My argument is that had we hired Travis instead of Martin, the program would be in a far better place today than it is, because Martin's decision to leave, with an ill-prepared AD replacing him, resulted in the last two coaching hires that were disasters. Martin was a tangent, taking the program away from the Monty-based path it was on. Is it possible that without the injuries to Wallace and Bird, that the 4-seed team makes a deep run in the tournament? It's possible, because as I've said, the short turnarounds in the tournament make athleticism and defense more important than Xs and Os, which is why Monty somewhat struggled in the tournament. It's also possible that that team loses before the Final Four, in which case Martin doesn't get the big contract and statue, and ends up leaving anyway.

To state the obvious, the eye test to date pretty much shows that, to use one example, Dennis Gates is a far better basketball coach than Cuonzo Martin.

Part of what you need to be successful in college basketball is an identity, because that helps you recruit. We had one under Monty, and were reasonably successful. We don't have one now, except as a laughing stock.

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Jeff82 said:

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My argument is that had we hired Travis instead of Martin, the program would be in a far better place today than it is, because Martin's decision to leave, with an ill-prepared AD replacing him, resulted in the last two coaching hires that were disasters. . . .

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smokeyrover said:

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So many informed perspectives and historians of Cal hoops on this site. Just makes Knowlton's dearth of knowledge and curiosity about the program so glaring. Zero vision backward or forward.

The particulars of Cuonzo vs Monty vs Braun vs Fox vs Wyking etc are so well trod but what they really signify through their trajectories is a map of what has worked at Cal, and what didn't. The outlines of a program model. Some smart student should write a thesis on it and it should be in a binder that stays in the AD Office, to be passed on. This is where Knowlton is seemingly blind.

As has been previously stated, the headwinds currently facing Cal put them in mid-major status (yes, I know according to their NET they are more low major). A Cuonzo-type recruiting model - a shortcut past the headwinds, a fake-it till you make-it recruiting class of Rabb and Brown - almost worked. On the cusp of a tourney run that would have netted some better recruits to then sustain a strong trajectory. Perhaps that model could work, but with a coach who understood Cal's dysfunction better and really wanted to stay in the area. Kick aside, that is why Pasternack is an attractive option. Knows the Cuonzo model of going after 4/5* at Arizona, knows the mid-major model of foreign and transfer signings and player development, and knows Cal. Kind of a hybrid.

Given the challenges and Cal's current profile, I think a program model of coaching continuity, creative roster building, and emphasis on player development and XandO system has the best chance for incremental and sustained success. Pasternack's roster building approach offers something more than the standard Monty/DeCuire or mid-major model. Cuonzo was close to breaking through. I could see a pure shortcut-type coach also working. Seems a harder needle to thread though.

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