You certainly have to think that Monty would have assisted Travis during the transition, and I don't think he had any relationship with Martin. You're right, it's all speculation, but it seems to me that you're better off having a program that develops over time, which we had, than not having one, which is what we've had since Martin was hired.Cal8285 said:I get that point, the biggest problem with that argument is we don't really know if hiring Travis would have avoided the issue. Maybe Travis only lasts 3 years at Cal, for whatever reason, and we still have an ill-prepared AD replacing him in 2017, resulting in two disaster coaching hires (although at least we almost certainly don't get Wyking, because Wyking almost certainly wouldn't have been on staff).Jeff82 said:
My argument is that had we hired Travis instead of Martin, the program would be in a far better place today than it is, because Martin's decision to leave, with an ill-prepared AD replacing him, resulted in the last two coaching hires that were disasters. . . .
On the other hand, of course, maybe Travis is still here giving us similar levels of success as Monty.
We don't know what would have happened if Travis had been hired, all we know is that things would have been different. And as we sit here today, different can only be better than what we've got right now.
the 3 false narratives re: coach cuonzo martin
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Last: 1 yr ago by Civil Bear
I'm not one to demonize Cuonzo. He had reasons to leave for sure. And he was miles better than Wyking and Fox. That's beyond dispute.
But those claiming Cuonzo was a great coach (and that Cal was the problem) seem to be ignoring that Cuonzo completely flamed out at Missouri. What is the excuse for that?
I think the reality is that Cuonzo is a very good recruiter, but not a great game day coach. That's preferable to having a guy with the reverse profile (arguably Fox). But if Cuonzo couldn't succeed at Missouri - which is well funded and has none of the obstacles Cal does - then how can you argue he would have eventually succeeded at Cal?
But those claiming Cuonzo was a great coach (and that Cal was the problem) seem to be ignoring that Cuonzo completely flamed out at Missouri. What is the excuse for that?
I think the reality is that Cuonzo is a very good recruiter, but not a great game day coach. That's preferable to having a guy with the reverse profile (arguably Fox). But if Cuonzo couldn't succeed at Missouri - which is well funded and has none of the obstacles Cal does - then how can you argue he would have eventually succeeded at Cal?
BearGoggles said:
I'm not one to demonize Cuonzo. He had reasons to leave for sure. And he was miles better than Wyking and Fox. That's beyond dispute.
But those claiming Cuonzo was a great coach (and that Cal was the problem) seem to be ignoring that Cuonzo completely flamed out at Missouri. What is the excuse for that?
I think the reality is that Cuonzo is a very good recruiter, but not a great game day coach. That's preferable to having a guy with the reverse profile (arguably Fox). But if Cuonzo couldn't succeed at Missouri - which is well funded and has none of the obstacles Cal does - then how can you argue he would have eventually succeeded at Cal?
"Eventually"? We went undefeated at home, We received a 4 seed and even after the disastrous ending STILL finished ranked. He was successful at Cal in only his second season.
I think it shows that for the right coach, Cal is a BETTER place to recruit to than Missouri (or a lot of other schools). No way Martin gets Brown, Rabb or Lee to Missouri for example. Cal is uniquely attractive if a coach knows how to sell it.
calumnus said:BearGoggles said:
I'm not one to demonize Cuonzo. He had reasons to leave for sure. And he was miles better than Wyking and Fox. That's beyond dispute.
But those claiming Cuonzo was a great coach (and that Cal was the problem) seem to be ignoring that Cuonzo completely flamed out at Missouri. What is the excuse for that?
I think the reality is that Cuonzo is a very good recruiter, but not a great game day coach. That's preferable to having a guy with the reverse profile (arguably Fox). But if Cuonzo couldn't succeed at Missouri - which is well funded and has none of the obstacles Cal does - then how can you argue he would have eventually succeeded at Cal?
"Eventually"? We went undefeated at home, We received a 4 seed and even after the disastrous ending STILL finished ranked. He was successful at Cal in only his second season.
I think it shows that for the right coach, Cal is a BETTER place to recruit to than Missouri (or a lot of other schools). No way Martin gets Brown, Rabb or Lee to Missouri for example. Cal is uniquely attractive if a coach knows how to sell it.
Cal has attracted a lot of talent in basketball and football.
We have a hard time translating that into success, especially sustained success.
There's nothing to sell at Cal. Basketball pick schools for basketball reasons primarily. Brown was unique in his desire to come here, but he was holding out until the last second waiting to see what was available. Rabb came here because he wanted to be at Cal, not because Martin sold him on Cal. And Lee only ended up at Cal after he wasn't good enough to start at Kentucky (and ultimately proving to not be much of anything special here).calumnus said:
I think it shows that for the right coach, Cal is a BETTER place to recruit to than Missouri (or a lot of other schools). No way Martin gets Brown, Rabb or Lee to Missouri for example. Cal is uniquely attractive if a coach knows how to sell it.
Honestly, Cal should bite the bullet and hire a guy like Pitino who could draw people here despite Cal's shortcomings, then transition the program to someone else once he gives it life (similar to what Washington State did with the Bennetts). That's the kind of jump start this program needs.
Plus, it would piss off Guy Falotico.
Ursine said:There's nothing to sell at Cal. Basketball pick schools for basketball reasons primarily. Brown was unique in his desire to come here, but he was holding out until the last second waiting to see what was available. Rabb came here because he wanted to be at Cal, not because Martin sold him on Cal. And Lee only ended up at Cal after he wasn't good enough to start at Kentucky (and ultimately proving to not be much of anything special here).calumnus said:
I think it shows that for the right coach, Cal is a BETTER place to recruit to than Missouri (or a lot of other schools). No way Martin gets Brown, Rabb or Lee to Missouri for example. Cal is uniquely attractive if a coach knows how to sell it.
Honestly, Cal should bite the bullet and hire a guy like Pitino who could draw people here despite Cal's shortcomings, then transition the program to someone else once he gives it life (similar to what Washington State did with the Bennetts). That's the kind of jump start this program needs.
Plus, it would piss off Guy Falotico.
Brown is not as unique as some here suggest.
Shareef came because of Cal's world renown Islamic Studies/Near Eastern Studies Department and Hakeem Olajuwon said if he had known about it, he would have chosen Cal too.
Justice Suring chose Cal because of Cal's academics and reputation for promoting social Justice.
Kidd, Powe, Lee, Rabb… because we were the local school. Lee, Rabb and Gordon just didn't want to play for Monty, but Lee and Rabb at least changed their minds when Cal hired Martin.
Ursine said:There's nothing to sell at Cal. Basketball pick schools for basketball reasons primarily. Brown was unique in his desire to come here, but he was holding out until the last second waiting to see what was available. Rabb came here because he wanted to be at Cal, not because Martin sold him on Cal. And Lee only ended up at Cal after he wasn't good enough to start at Kentucky (and ultimately proving to not be much of anything special here).calumnus said:
I think it shows that for the right coach, Cal is a BETTER place to recruit to than Missouri (or a lot of other schools). No way Martin gets Brown, Rabb or Lee to Missouri for example. Cal is uniquely attractive if a coach knows how to sell it.
Honestly, Cal should bite the bullet and hire a guy like Pitino who could draw people here despite Cal's shortcomings, then transition the program to someone else once he gives it life (similar to what Washington State did with the Bennetts). That's the kind of jump start this program needs.
Plus, it would piss off Guy Falotico.
"Brown was unique in his desire to come here, but he was holding out until the last second waiting to see what was available."
What does this even mean? He was like the #4 recruit in the country. Every school in the country was available to him.
"Rabb came here because he wanted to be at Cal, not because Martin sold him on Cal."
The messaging at the time coming from insiders was that Monty was not going to get Rabb. People were very concerned. He easily could have gone elsewhere. Then Monty retired and the mood changed. Sure enough, Cuonzo landed him.
GMP said:Ursine said:There's nothing to sell at Cal. Basketball pick schools for basketball reasons primarily. Brown was unique in his desire to come here, but he was holding out until the last second waiting to see what was available. Rabb came here because he wanted to be at Cal, not because Martin sold him on Cal. And Lee only ended up at Cal after he wasn't good enough to start at Kentucky (and ultimately proving to not be much of anything special here).calumnus said:
I think it shows that for the right coach, Cal is a BETTER place to recruit to than Missouri (or a lot of other schools). No way Martin gets Brown, Rabb or Lee to Missouri for example. Cal is uniquely attractive if a coach knows how to sell it.
Honestly, Cal should bite the bullet and hire a guy like Pitino who could draw people here despite Cal's shortcomings, then transition the program to someone else once he gives it life (similar to what Washington State did with the Bennetts). That's the kind of jump start this program needs.
Plus, it would piss off Guy Falotico.
"Brown was unique in his desire to come here, but he was holding out until the last second waiting to see what was available."
What does this even mean? He was like the #4 recruit in the country. Every school in the country was available to him.
"Rabb came here because he wanted to be at Cal, not because Martin sold him on Cal."
The messaging at the time coming from insiders was that Monty was not going to get Rabb. People were very concerned. He easily could have gone elsewhere. Then Monty retired and the mood changed. Sure enough, Cuonzo landed him.
Exactly McDonald's All-Americans with great academics don't have to wait to see "what's available" that is patently absurd.
Prior to Martin taking the job, Cal was not even on Rabb's top 10. Monty was never going to land Rabb after "The Shove."
Bird, Lee and Gordon visited Cal together and wanted to be a package deal. Marcus Lee's brother came on this board and told us Marcus' family felt insulted by Monty during his visit to their home. Gordon was also turned off. Only Bird, a Cal legacy and lifelong fan, signed with Cal.
Marcus Lee was wanted by everyone out of high school and as a transfer. He was immensely popular and outspoken at Kentucky. Just a great human being. Martin convinced him to come home.
If Marcus Lee felt dissed by Montgomery, I can understand choosing to go to UK, but I think that he would have developed further at Cal. Monty had a good track record developing big men (Collins twins, Madsen) and when Lee got to Cal, he didn't have the impact we (or I, at least) hoped for. A very good athlete, but he didn't have that go-to shot that an inside guy needs, like Andre Kelly's jump hook. Of course, I'm not sure he would have developed that shot playing for Cuonzo. Still, Marcus is apparently carving out a nice pro career in Italy and I hope he has a diploma that says "University of California" on it.
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
Bozeman was probably a better recruiter and similar (or lesser) X and O coach. But he had poorer judgment in other areas.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
You can't get credit for the ones you didn't get. Pulling in 1 good class, albeit outstanding, in 3 years does not make him the best recruiter in 50 years. Martin was closer to the least consistent recruiter not named Fox that Cal has had in the last 50 years.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
Brown committed May 1, 2015, two weeks after Rabb. He knew that any program with an open slot would take him, so he was in no rush to sign on signing day.GMP said:Ursine said:There's nothing to sell at Cal. Basketball pick schools for basketball reasons primarily. Brown was unique in his desire to come here, but he was holding out until the last second waiting to see what was available. Rabb came here because he wanted to be at Cal, not because Martin sold him on Cal. And Lee only ended up at Cal after he wasn't good enough to start at Kentucky (and ultimately proving to not be much of anything special here).calumnus said:
I think it shows that for the right coach, Cal is a BETTER place to recruit to than Missouri (or a lot of other schools). No way Martin gets Brown, Rabb or Lee to Missouri for example. Cal is uniquely attractive if a coach knows how to sell it.
Honestly, Cal should bite the bullet and hire a guy like Pitino who could draw people here despite Cal's shortcomings, then transition the program to someone else once he gives it life (similar to what Washington State did with the Bennetts). That's the kind of jump start this program needs.
Plus, it would piss off Guy Falotico.
"Brown was unique in his desire to come here, but he was holding out until the last second waiting to see what was available."
What does this even mean? He was like the #4 recruit in the country. Every school in the country was available to him.
"Rabb came here because he wanted to be at Cal, not because Martin sold him on Cal."
The messaging at the time coming from insiders was that Monty was not going to get Rabb. People were very concerned. He easily could have gone elsewhere. Then Monty retired and the mood changed. Sure enough, Cuonzo landed him.
Rabb fell into Martin's lap. I guess points for him for not being Monty, but his track record has shown he can't pull guys consistently at that level.
That's a nice story, but they wanted to be a package deal so badly that they all ended up at 3 different schools. As for Marcus Lee, he may have been highly rated and recruited, but he wasn't a good basketball player once he had to start playing against college players his own size.calumnus said:
Bird, Lee and Gordon visited Cal together and wanted to be a package deal. Marcus Lee's brother came on this board and told us Marcus' family felt insulted by Monty during his visit to their home. Gordon was also turned off. Only Bird, a Cal legacy and lifelong fan, signed with Cal.
Marcus Lee was wanted by everyone out of high school and as a transfer. He was immensely popular and outspoken at Kentucky. Just a great human being. Martin convinced him to come home.
Ursine said:Brown committed May 1, 2015, two weeks after Rabb. He knew that any program with an open slot would take him, so he was in no rush to sign on signing day.GMP said:Ursine said:There's nothing to sell at Cal. Basketball pick schools for basketball reasons primarily. Brown was unique in his desire to come here, but he was holding out until the last second waiting to see what was available. Rabb came here because he wanted to be at Cal, not because Martin sold him on Cal. And Lee only ended up at Cal after he wasn't good enough to start at Kentucky (and ultimately proving to not be much of anything special here).calumnus said:
I think it shows that for the right coach, Cal is a BETTER place to recruit to than Missouri (or a lot of other schools). No way Martin gets Brown, Rabb or Lee to Missouri for example. Cal is uniquely attractive if a coach knows how to sell it.
Honestly, Cal should bite the bullet and hire a guy like Pitino who could draw people here despite Cal's shortcomings, then transition the program to someone else once he gives it life (similar to what Washington State did with the Bennetts). That's the kind of jump start this program needs.
Plus, it would piss off Guy Falotico.
"Brown was unique in his desire to come here, but he was holding out until the last second waiting to see what was available."
What does this even mean? He was like the #4 recruit in the country. Every school in the country was available to him.
"Rabb came here because he wanted to be at Cal, not because Martin sold him on Cal."
The messaging at the time coming from insiders was that Monty was not going to get Rabb. People were very concerned. He easily could have gone elsewhere. Then Monty retired and the mood changed. Sure enough, Cuonzo landed him.
Rabb fell into Martin's lap. I guess points for him for not being Monty, but his track record has shown he can't pull guys consistently at that level.
Martin at Cal brought in Rabb, Brown and Lee. Only Bird "fell into his lap." Again, Rabb did not have Cal in his Top 10 before Martin became Cal's coach.
The point is, Cal alone did not bring them in. Martin alone cannot bring them to Missouri. It was the combination of Martin and Cal that was effective.
And the only good reason to be discussing this while we are in this deep Fox hole is to inform our thinking on the NEXT coach.
The point is Cal can be incredibly attractive to smart African American top athletes, even McDonald's All Americans, when we have a coach that can effectively sell Cal. There were articles that described Martin learning our history and doing just that.
agree that you shouldn't give credit for the fish that got away, but I'm making an exception in this case with Swanigan who gave a verbal to Cal. I remember the press conference where a reporter asked him if there were going to be any other star signings to the top rated class?Civil Bear said:You can't get credit for the ones you didn't get. Pulling in 1 good class, albeit outstanding, in 3 years does not make him the best recruiter in 50 years. Martin was closer to the least consistent recruiter not named Fox that Cal has had in the last 50 years.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
Martin couldn't say anything so he gave a vague reply, but his huge grin said all you needed to know
BeachedBear said:Bozeman was probably a better recruiter and similar (or lesser) X and O coach. But he had poorer judgment in other areas.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
The briefcase with the $30k for the services of one J. Gardner:
*I think they need a special alcove in the Cal HOF room for Cuonzo Martin and Sonny Dykes paid for by all the fanboys of those two on BI.
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HoopDreams said:agree that you shouldn't give credit for the fish that got away, but I'm making an exception in this case with Swanigan who gave a verbal to Cal. I remember the press conference where a reporter asked him if there were going to be any other star signings to the top rated class?Civil Bear said:You can't get credit for the ones you didn't get. Pulling in 1 good class, albeit outstanding, in 3 years does not make him the best recruiter in 50 years. Martin was closer to the least consistent recruiter not named Fox that Cal has had in the last 50 years.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
Martin couldn't say anything so he gave a vague reply, but his huge grin said all you needed to know
I do think near misses gives an indication of recruiting capabilities. My thinking about Braun as a recruiter includes some credit that he identified and had a commit from Nowitski and probably LeBron if we were in the one-and-done era. He was good at identifying and getting after talent early, both top level and next level and had a good network.
He also was an African American Studies major in college, had a good relationship with top donors, clearly LOVES Berkeley and could sell Cal. His coaching was Cuonzo or Fox level (Monty essentially won a Pac-10 championship with the team that finished second to last under Braun, and without its best player, Anderson) but he was a good recruiter at Cal.
He was a better coach than Martin and Fox, even if those two were co coaching a team against Braun.
Braun plugged Gino Carlisle and James Kilgore into our team and the Bears became competitive instantly. I liked his player choices. He was a bit weak offensively, and he got institutionally stale at the end. I think he is a nice guy and a good man. He made a sizable donation to Cal with his own money.
I went up to him in a hotel in Marina Del Rey when he was attending a combine. He could not have been more charming and friendly (although telling him I worked with the Ricksen twins probably acted as lube). He was a great ambassador for Cal.
Braun plugged Gino Carlisle and James Kilgore into our team and the Bears became competitive instantly. I liked his player choices. He was a bit weak offensively, and he got institutionally stale at the end. I think he is a nice guy and a good man. He made a sizable donation to Cal with his own money.
I went up to him in a hotel in Marina Del Rey when he was attending a combine. He could not have been more charming and friendly (although telling him I worked with the Ricksen twins probably acted as lube). He was a great ambassador for Cal.
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bearister said:BeachedBear said:Bozeman was probably a better recruiter and similar (or lesser) X and O coach. But he had poorer judgment in other areas.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
The briefcase with the $30k for the services of one J. Gardner:
*I think they need a special alcove in the Cal HOF room for Cuonzo Martin and Sonny Dykes paid for by all the fanboys of those two on BI.
Uh no, Bozeman was still making his assistant's salary and had a wife and kids to support, so the money supposedly came from an LA based agent, who happened to Jelani's uncle, the same agent that Bozeman reported to the NCAA the year before for a car loan to Jelani's friend Tremaine Folwkes and wanted revenge on Bozeman.
When Bozeman resigned a civil lawsuit in Alameda County courts for sexual harassment brought by a young woman (and Cal student) Jelani had introduced to Bozeman was dropped. The case also involved the "Friends Helping Friends" Ponzi scheme Bozeman had gotten deep into. All of that went away when Bozeman plead "no contest" to the NCAA charges based on the Gardners' sting operation, which allowed Jelani to transfer without sitting out a year.
I never said that was Bozeman holding that briefcase.
"It's a simple game. Two baskets and a ball."
-Todd Bozeman, repeated after every post game pressie when he was HC.
"It's a simple game. Two baskets and a ball."
-Todd Bozeman, repeated after every post game pressie when he was HC.
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Agreed. People seem to forget the senior-laden team Monty won the conference with were all underclassmen under Braun. A better example was how Braun took Cal to the Sweet 16 after losing 3 of Boseman's top 4 scorers.bearister said:
He was a better coach than Martin and Fox, even if those two were co coaching a team against Braun.
Braun plugged Gino Carlisle and James Kilgore into our team and the Bears became competitive instantly. I liked his player choices. He was a bit weak offensively, and he got institutionally stale at the end. I think he is a nice guy and a good man. He made a sizable donation to Cal with his own money.
I went up to him in a hotel in Marina Del Rey when he was attending a combine. He could not have been more charming and friendly (although telling him I worked with the Ricksen twins probably acted as lube). He was a great ambassador for Cal.
Then Braun should easily be the best Cal recruiter over the last 50 years (James, Nowitzki, Winston, Sensley, Blanchard, etc.).HoopDreams said:agree that you shouldn't give credit for the fish that got away, but I'm making an exception in this case with Swanigan who gave a verbal to Cal. I remember the press conference where a reporter asked him if there were going to be any other star signings to the top rated class?Civil Bear said:You can't get credit for the ones you didn't get. Pulling in 1 good class, albeit outstanding, in 3 years does not make him the best recruiter in 50 years. Martin was closer to the least consistent recruiter not named Fox that Cal has had in the last 50 years.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
Martin couldn't say anything so he gave a vague reply, but his huge grin said all you needed to know
It was a great example of how replacing an OK coach with a far better coach resulted in far better results. And he didn't even have Ryan Anderson like Braun did.Civil Bear said:Agreed. People seem to forget the senior-laden team Monty won the conference with were all underclassmen under Braun. A better example was how Braun took Cal to the Sweet 16 after losing 3 of Boseman's top 4 scorers.bearister said:
He was a better coach than Martin and Fox, even if those two were co coaching a team against Braun.
Braun plugged Gino Carlisle and James Kilgore into our team and the Bears became competitive instantly. I liked his player choices. He was a bit weak offensively, and he got institutionally stale at the end. I think he is a nice guy and a good man. He made a sizable donation to Cal with his own money.
I went up to him in a hotel in Marina Del Rey when he was attending a combine. He could not have been more charming and friendly (although telling him I worked with the Ricksen twins probably acted as lube). He was a great ambassador for Cal.
Monty was the 2nd best X's and O's coach in Cal history….unfortunately he was mailing it in recruiting wise having made his retirement money from the Warrior's gig.
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bearister said:
He was a better coach than Martin and Fox, even if those two were co coaching a team against Braun.
Braun plugged Gino Carlisle and James Kilgore into our team and the Bears became competitive instantly. I liked his player choices. He was a bit weak offensively, and he got institutionally stale at the end. I think he is a nice guy and a good man. He made a sizable donation to Cal with his own money.
I went up to him in a hotel in Marina Del Rey when he was attending a combine. He could not have been more charming and friendly (although telling him I worked with the Ricksen twins probably acted as lube). He was a great ambassador for Cal.
On a team with Hardin, Anderson, Wilkes, Kamp (pre injury), Boykin, Christopher and Randle he went small with Knezevic and Vierneisal in the starting lineup and finished second to last. Part of Monty's turnaround the next year was just playing the best 5 guys, even if he did not have Anderson and Hardin. I remember people on this board arguing Knezevic was better than Randle. Monty knew better and the results showed it.
I think only sensely was a silent commit
Civil Bear said:Then Braun should easily be the best Cal recruiter over the last 50 years (James, Nowitzki, Winston, Sensley, Blanchard, etc.).HoopDreams said:agree that you shouldn't give credit for the fish that got away, but I'm making an exception in this case with Swanigan who gave a verbal to Cal. I remember the press conference where a reporter asked him if there were going to be any other star signings to the top rated class?Civil Bear said:You can't get credit for the ones you didn't get. Pulling in 1 good class, albeit outstanding, in 3 years does not make him the best recruiter in 50 years. Martin was closer to the least consistent recruiter not named Fox that Cal has had in the last 50 years.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
Martin couldn't say anything so he gave a vague reply, but his huge grin said all you needed to know
Ursine said:It was a great example of how replacing an OK coach with a far better coach resulted in far better results. And he didn't even have Ryan Anderson like Braun did.Civil Bear said:Agreed. People seem to forget the senior-laden team Monty won the conference with were all underclassmen under Braun. A better example was how Braun took Cal to the Sweet 16 after losing 3 of Boseman's top 4 scorers.bearister said:
He was a better coach than Martin and Fox, even if those two were co coaching a team against Braun.
Braun plugged Gino Carlisle and James Kilgore into our team and the Bears became competitive instantly. I liked his player choices. He was a bit weak offensively, and he got institutionally stale at the end. I think he is a nice guy and a good man. He made a sizable donation to Cal with his own money.
I went up to him in a hotel in Marina Del Rey when he was attending a combine. He could not have been more charming and friendly (although telling him I worked with the Ricksen twins probably acted as lube). He was a great ambassador for Cal.
if Ryan Anderson had stayed all four years and played under Monty with Randle, Christopher, Theo and Boykin, that woud've been something to see!
HoopDreams said:
I think only sensely was a silent commitCivil Bear said:Then Braun should easily be the best Cal recruiter over the last 50 years (James, Nowitzki, Winston, Sensley, Blanchard, etc.).HoopDreams said:agree that you shouldn't give credit for the fish that got away, but I'm making an exception in this case with Swanigan who gave a verbal to Cal. I remember the press conference where a reporter asked him if there were going to be any other star signings to the top rated class?Civil Bear said:You can't get credit for the ones you didn't get. Pulling in 1 good class, albeit outstanding, in 3 years does not make him the best recruiter in 50 years. Martin was closer to the least consistent recruiter not named Fox that Cal has had in the last 50 years.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
Martin couldn't say anything so he gave a vague reply, but his huge grin said all you needed to know
Define silent commit. Kennedy (and I
think Julian) signed an LOI. Dirk told Braun he wanted to come to Cal. LeBron just told the press.
Big C said:Ursine said:It was a great example of how replacing an OK coach with a far better coach resulted in far better results. And he didn't even have Ryan Anderson like Braun did.Civil Bear said:Agreed. People seem to forget the senior-laden team Monty won the conference with were all underclassmen under Braun. A better example was how Braun took Cal to the Sweet 16 after losing 3 of Boseman's top 4 scorers.bearister said:
He was a better coach than Martin and Fox, even if those two were co coaching a team against Braun.
Braun plugged Gino Carlisle and James Kilgore into our team and the Bears became competitive instantly. I liked his player choices. He was a bit weak offensively, and he got institutionally stale at the end. I think he is a nice guy and a good man. He made a sizable donation to Cal with his own money.
I went up to him in a hotel in Marina Del Rey when he was attending a combine. He could not have been more charming and friendly (although telling him I worked with the Ricksen twins probably acted as lube). He was a great ambassador for Cal.
if Ryan Anderson had stayed all four years and played under Monty with Randle, Christopher, Theo and Boykin, that woud've been something to see!
And guys like Jorge, Wilkes, MSF and Kamp off the bench!
Highly amusing how our fanbase loves to give our coaches credit for successfully recruiting guys who didn't come here.Civil Bear said:Then Braun should easily be the best Cal recruiter over the last 50 years (James, Nowitzki, Winston, Sensley, Blanchard, etc.).HoopDreams said:agree that you shouldn't give credit for the fish that got away, but I'm making an exception in this case with Swanigan who gave a verbal to Cal. I remember the press conference where a reporter asked him if there were going to be any other star signings to the top rated class?Civil Bear said:You can't get credit for the ones you didn't get. Pulling in 1 good class, albeit outstanding, in 3 years does not make him the best recruiter in 50 years. Martin was closer to the least consistent recruiter not named Fox that Cal has had in the last 50 years.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
Martin couldn't say anything so he gave a vague reply, but his huge grin said all you needed to know
Civil Bear said:HoopDreams said:
I think only sensely was a silent commitCivil Bear said:Then Braun should easily be the best Cal recruiter over the last 50 years (James, Nowitzki, Winston, Sensley, Blanchard, etc.).HoopDreams said:agree that you shouldn't give credit for the fish that got away, but I'm making an exception in this case with Swanigan who gave a verbal to Cal. I remember the press conference where a reporter asked him if there were going to be any other star signings to the top rated class?Civil Bear said:You can't get credit for the ones you didn't get. Pulling in 1 good class, albeit outstanding, in 3 years does not make him the best recruiter in 50 years. Martin was closer to the least consistent recruiter not named Fox that Cal has had in the last 50 years.HoopDreams said:
Martin also got a silent commitment from Swanigan (his guardian blocked)
If he signed and the two last minute injuries didn't happen that would have been a legit Final Four team
No doubt Martin was the best recruiter Cal has had in 50 years, and he also got maximum buy in from his players
He's the type of leader I wish we had at Cal
Martin couldn't say anything so he gave a vague reply, but his huge grin said all you needed to know
Define silent commit. Kennedy (and I
think Julian) signed an LOI. Dirk told Braun he wanted to come to Cal. LeBron just told the press.
Dirk and Cal were going to sue the NCAA after he verbaled to Cal but they declared him ineligible, then he destroyed the top Americans in an All Star game and the NBA suddenly really was his path.
I didn't realize how many amazing players at one point went to Cal or even had significant interest in Cal... this makes the current situation even worse for me
We hear you
Start Slowly and taper off
1959 national championship..eastcoastcal said:
I didn't realize how many amazing players at one point went to Cal or even had significant interest in Cal... this makes the current situation even worse for me
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