Thanks

Do *any* coaches plan on coming back?

FIFY

Econ141 said:

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stu said:

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Do *any* coaches plan on coming back?

FIFY

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Fox definitely does. Where else do you get paid over $400,000 per win?

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With the buyout Fox will probably end up getting paid over $5 million for the 3 wins this season.

Econ141 said:

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stu said:

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Do *any* coaches plan on coming back?

FIFY

---

Fox definitely does. Where else do you get paid over $400,000 per win?

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I think it is $650k+ per win.

calumnus said:

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Econ141 said:

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stu said:

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Do *any* coaches plan on coming back?

FIFY

---

Fox definitely does. Where else do you get paid over $400,000 per win?

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With the buyout Fox will probably end up getting paid over $5 million for the 3 wins this season.

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Smart as a fox.

Big C said:

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Everybody's a wit. Okay, I get it: gallows humor.

Brown: I believe he is graduating from Haas. Will be a big success in life.
Lars. Is likely graduating and moving on. Will be able to play at some level in Europe, if he wants.
Kuany: Similar to Lars. Will be able to play somewhere else. Possible grad transfer.
Clayton: Has used up his eligibility.
Hyder: I believe he is graduating. Almost certainly moving on.

So, no, I doubt any of the seniors are staying, unless the new staff convinces them to continue here.

This is just my general sense of the situation. The new coach is basically going to be starting fresh, which is do-able in this day and age.

---

Yes, and if anything I think the next coach and/or prospective coaches will likely want more roster flexibility to mould it more in their liking

Anyone have an idea about Celestine? He is good enough to possibly have an opportunity on another team but of course the injury may complicate that. He also might just want a change of scenery, Anyone know?

Big C said:

---

Everybody's a wit. Okay, I get it: gallows humor.

Brown: I believe he is graduating from Haas. Will be a big success in life.
Lars. Is likely graduating and moving on. Will be able to play at some level in Europe, if he wants.
Kuany: Similar to Lars. Will be able to play somewhere else. Possible grad transfer.
Clayton: Has used up his eligibility.
Hyder: I believe he is graduating. Almost certainly moving on.

So, no, I doubt any of the seniors are staying, unless the new staff convinces them to continue here.

This is just my general sense of the situation. The new coach is basically going to be starting fresh, which is do-able in this day and age.

---

can clayton play because he played in so few games this year?

can he get an 8th year of eligibility?

Yeah, pretty sure Clayton has already used the injured-most-of-the-year year. He's 25 or something. Glad he came to Cal. Hope he gains something academically that helps him in his future. Too bad he was injured most of the year, but he'll always have that game against Furd to tell his kids about!

Agree, although he missed a lot of time due to a health issue, so some was injury, others were a health issue

at least that's what I heard a TV analyst say a few games back

Big C said:

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Yeah, pretty sure Clayton has already used the injured-most-of-the-year year. He's 25 or something. Glad he came to Cal. Hope he gains something academically that helps him in his future. Too bad he was injured most of the year, but he'll always have that game against Furd to tell his kids about!

---

Big C said:

---

Everybody's a wit. Okay, I get it: gallows humor.

Brown: I believe he is graduating from Haas. Will be a big success in life.
Lars. Is likely graduating and moving on. Will be able to play at some level in Europe, if he wants.
Kuany: Similar to Lars. Will be able to play somewhere else. Possible grad transfer.
Clayton: Has used up his eligibility.
Hyder: I believe he is graduating. Almost certainly moving on.

So, no, I doubt any of the seniors are staying, unless the new staff convinces them to continue here.

This is just my general sense of the situation. The new coach is basically going to be starting fresh, which is do-able in this day and age.

---

Kuany is Australian and can play professionally there.

Based on what I saw last night at the game the 5 seniors played their last home game in Haas.

2K could transfer to another P6 team with his defense and offense. He still has things to work on ( pull up jumper and tighten his handle ) but he continues to have the most potential

Brown improved so much as a senior and with his defense could probably transfer to a good mid major.

Lars likely will play pro in the EU

Without those three our defense will drop substantially

Clayton out of eligibility and Hyder has been injured so much that maybe he retires from basketball

HoopDreams said:

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Based on what I saw last night at the game the 5 seniors played their last home game in Haas.

2K could transfer to another P6 team with his defense and offense. He still has things to work on ( pull up jumper and tighten his handle ) but he continues to have the most potential

Brown improved so much as a senior and with his defense could probably transfer to a good mid major.

Lars likely will play pro in the EU

Without those three our defense will drop substantially

Clayton out of eligibility and Hyder has been injured so much that maybe he retires from basketball

---

Hard to imagine our defense could get worse, but yes. Well, a good coach will make a roster transformation and I think our defense could be somewhat better. Offense will certainly be better. This, from Day One. We are that bad.

Can we somehow get Caitlin Clark? That might solidify our PG position.

cal83dls79 said:

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Can we somehow get Caitlin Clark? That might solidify our PG position.

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I posted this before her last second shot. Insane

Agree, and I always think too many people discount or don't even consider defense

He's a very good defender

BC Calfan said:

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I think Kuany would be a nice piece to have if he decides to return next season. While his improvement has been incremental, it's visible. With a new, capable coach I think he can be put in a better position to flourish. His confidence is there, his shooting touch has improved, instincts are good, he's a solid team player. If his game is fine tuned a little I think he would be a reliable contributor. Plus he seems like a fantastic teammate!

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Agree. Good post

BeachedBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Agree, and I always think too many people discount or don't even consider defense

He's a very good defender

BC Calfan said:

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I think Kuany would be a nice piece to have if he decides to return next season. While his improvement has been incremental, it's visible. With a new, capable coach I think he can be put in a better position to flourish. His confidence is there, his shooting touch has improved, instincts are good, he's a solid team player. If his game is fine tuned a little I think he would be a reliable contributor. Plus he seems like a fantastic teammate!

---

---

I would add that Kuany's defense has improved dramatically. He arrived with the length and athleticism, but he has improved his footwork, positioning and defensive teamwork in the the last two seasons particularly. And much of that is adopting counter intuitive defensive behaviors which takes effort. As much as I bash Fox - he might deserve some of the credit for this. But Kuany deserves MOST of the credit for putting in the work and changing his defensive behaviors to improve.

---

Ok rank the best scenarios:
1) Fox leaves and all seniors return.
2) Fox stays and all seniors return.
3) Fox leaves and all seniors leave.
4) Fox stays and all seniors leave.

BeachedBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Agree, and I always think too many people discount or don't even consider defense

He's a very good defender

BC Calfan said:

---

I think Kuany would be a nice piece to have if he decides to return next season. While his improvement has been incremental, it's visible. With a new, capable coach I think he can be put in a better position to flourish. His confidence is there, his shooting touch has improved, instincts are good, he's a solid team player. If his game is fine tuned a little I think he would be a reliable contributor. Plus he seems like a fantastic teammate!

---

---

I would add that Kuany's defense has improved dramatically. He arrived with the length and athleticism, but he has improved his footwork, positioning and defensive teamwork in the the last two seasons particularly. And much of that is adopting counter intuitive defensive behaviors which takes effort. As much as I bash Fox - he might deserve some of the credit for this. But Kuany deserves MOST of the credit for putting in the work and changing his defensive behaviors to improve.

---

BeachedBear and Hoop Dreams: What are you looking for when you assess 2K's defense? Is it more perimeter or interior defense (or both)? I am not disputing your assertion by any means, but when I look at our defense, in the aggregate, we really suck this season. We leave 3-point shooters open, opponents score around the basket and they rebound with impunity.

Joel Brown is, I guess, a good on-ball defender, but the rest of them all seem to have one or more flaws in their defensive game. In general, besides our glaring lack of shooting, this just seems to be a low "hoops IQ" group, rarely making the winning-basketball move on either end of the court.

I love Kuany's free throw stroke (also Lars'). Smooth, sound and confident. I believe he's shooting above 80% from the line.

If any of these guys could be convinced to return, I think that would be good (not great). One way or another, there will be plenty of open roster spots for the new coach to fill with better talent.

First thing I look for in a defender is lateral quickness

How well can he stay in front of his man, and if he gets beat on a drive, or gets shaked on a step back, cross-over or hesi, how wellcan he recover

Without that fundamental quickness, athleticism it's tough for any player to be a good defender, although gaining low body strength helps people move better with a lower defensive stance

also defensive skills such as stance in relationship to other player, keep the right distance, knowing how to defend a shot vs a cross over, etc etc etc

One simple example is a ball handler is coached to attack the defenders high foot, so knowing how to counter or make sure there is help side

Understanding defensive principals. Basically being in the right place and knowing your assignments. This includes not over helping, understanding when to go over or under a screen, when to double, how to defend a pick and roll, when to switch, etc, etc, etc

Physical characteristics such as length, strength, jumping ability, and timing of block attempts. This and lateral quickness is what makes 2K a good defender

Also overall hoops IQ. I usually spot high hoops IQ with being a good passer and being able to jump passes for a steal (e.g. Jorge and the ultimate.... Kidd)

Not making bad fouls is another thing to watch. Good example is Lars. As a freshmen he made many dumb fouls but he cleaned that up

So much more but a sample

Big C said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Agree, and I always think too many people discount or don't even consider defense

He's a very good defender

BC Calfan said:

---

I think Kuany would be a nice piece to have if he decides to return next season. While his improvement has been incremental, it's visible. With a new, capable coach I think he can be put in a better position to flourish. His confidence is there, his shooting touch has improved, instincts are good, he's a solid team player. If his game is fine tuned a little I think he would be a reliable contributor. Plus he seems like a fantastic teammate!

---

---

I would add that Kuany's defense has improved dramatically. He arrived with the length and athleticism, but he has improved his footwork, positioning and defensive teamwork in the the last two seasons particularly. And much of that is adopting counter intuitive defensive behaviors which takes effort. As much as I bash Fox - he might deserve some of the credit for this. But Kuany deserves MOST of the credit for putting in the work and changing his defensive behaviors to improve.

---

BeachedBear and Hoop Dreams: What are you looking for when you assess 2K's defense? Is it more perimeter or interior defense (or both)? I am not disputing your assertion by any means, but when I look at our defense, in the aggregate, we really suck this season. We leave 3-point shooters open, opponents score around the basket and they rebound with impunity.

Joel Brown is, I guess, a good on-ball defender, but the rest of them all seem to have one or more flaws in their defensive game. In general, besides our glaring lack of shooting, this just seems to be a low "hoops IQ" group, rarely making the winning-basketball move on either end of the court.

I love Kuany's free throw stroke (also Lars'). Smooth, sound and confident. I believe he's shooting above 80% from the line.

If any of these guys could be convinced to return, I think that would be good (not great). One way or another, there will be plenty of open roster spots for the new coach to fill with better talent.

---

HoopDreams said:

---

First thing I look for in a defender is lateral quickness

How well can he stay in front of his man, and if he gets beat on a drive, or gets shaked on a step back, cross-over or hesi, how wellcan he recover

Without that fundamental quickness, athleticism it's tough for any player to be a good defender, although gaining low body strength helps people move better with a lower defensive stance

also defensive skills such as stance in relationship to other player, keep the right distance, knowing how to defend a shot vs a cross over, etc etc etc

One simple example is a ball handler is coached to attack the defenders high foot, so knowing how to counter or make sure there is help side

Understanding defensive principals. Basically being in the right place and knowing your assignments. This includes not over helping, understanding when to go over or under a screen, when to double, how to defend a pick and roll, when to switch, etc, etc, etc

Physical characteristics such as length, strength, jumping ability, and timing of block attempts. This and lateral quickness is what makes 2K a good defender

Also overall hoops IQ. I usually spot high hoops IQ with being a good passer and being able to jump passes for a steal (e.g. Jorge)

Not making bad fouls is another thing to watch. Good example is Lars. As a freshmen he made many dumb fouls but he cleaned that up

So much more but a sample

Big C said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Agree, and I always think too many people discount or don't even consider defense

He's a very good defender

BC Calfan said:

---

I think Kuany would be a nice piece to have if he decides to return next season. While his improvement has been incremental, it's visible. With a new, capable coach I think he can be put in a better position to flourish. His confidence is there, his shooting touch has improved, instincts are good, he's a solid team player. If his game is fine tuned a little I think he would be a reliable contributor. Plus he seems like a fantastic teammate!

---

---

I would add that Kuany's defense has improved dramatically. He arrived with the length and athleticism, but he has improved his footwork, positioning and defensive teamwork in the the last two seasons particularly. And much of that is adopting counter intuitive defensive behaviors which takes effort. As much as I bash Fox - he might deserve some of the credit for this. But Kuany deserves MOST of the credit for putting in the work and changing his defensive behaviors to improve.

---

BeachedBear and Hoop Dreams: What are you looking for when you assess 2K's defense? Is it more perimeter or interior defense (or both)? I am not disputing your assertion by any means, but when I look at our defense, in the aggregate, we really suck this season. We leave 3-point shooters open, opponents score around the basket and they rebound with impunity.

Joel Brown is, I guess, a good on-ball defender, but the rest of them all seem to have one or more flaws in their defensive game. In general, besides our glaring lack of shooting, this just seems to be a low "hoops IQ" group, rarely making the winning-basketball move on either end of the court.

I love Kuany's free throw stroke (also Lars'). Smooth, sound and confident. I believe he's shooting above 80% from the line.

If any of these guys could be convinced to return, I think that would be good (not great). One way or another, there will be plenty of open roster spots for the new coach to fill with better talent.

---

---

Kuanys free throw stroke cost us a win on the road at Washington where he missed both. Of course Brown also missed his

HoopDreams said:

---

First thing I look for in a defender is lateral quickness

How well can he stay in front of his man, and if he gets beat on a drive, or gets shaked on a step back, cross-over or hesi, how wellcan he recover

Without that fundamental quickness, athleticism it's tough for any player to be a good defender, although gaining low body strength helps people move better with a lower defensive stance

also defensive skills such as stance in relationship to other player, keep the right distance, knowing how to defend a shot vs a cross over, etc etc etc

One simple example is a ball handler is coached to attack the defenders high foot, so knowing how to counter or make sure there is help side

Understanding defensive principals. Basically being in the right place and knowing your assignments. This includes not over helping, understanding when to go over or under a screen, when to double, how to defend a pick and roll, when to switch, etc, etc, etc

Physical characteristics such as length, strength, jumping ability, and timing of block attempts. This and lateral quickness is what makes 2K a good defender

Also overall hoops IQ. I usually spot high hoops IQ with being a good passer and being able to jump passes for a steal (e.g. Jorge and the ultimate.... Kidd)

Not making bad fouls is another thing to watch. Good example is Lars. As a freshmen he made many dumb fouls but he cleaned that up

So much more but a sample

Big C said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Agree, and I always think too many people discount or don't even consider defense

He's a very good defender

BC Calfan said:

---

I think Kuany would be a nice piece to have if he decides to return next season. While his improvement has been incremental, it's visible. With a new, capable coach I think he can be put in a better position to flourish. His confidence is there, his shooting touch has improved, instincts are good, he's a solid team player. If his game is fine tuned a little I think he would be a reliable contributor. Plus he seems like a fantastic teammate!

---

---

I would add that Kuany's defense has improved dramatically. He arrived with the length and athleticism, but he has improved his footwork, positioning and defensive teamwork in the the last two seasons particularly. And much of that is adopting counter intuitive defensive behaviors which takes effort. As much as I bash Fox - he might deserve some of the credit for this. But Kuany deserves MOST of the credit for putting in the work and changing his defensive behaviors to improve.

---

BeachedBear and Hoop Dreams: What are you looking for when you assess 2K's defense? Is it more perimeter or interior defense (or both)? I am not disputing your assertion by any means, but when I look at our defense, in the aggregate, we really suck this season. We leave 3-point shooters open, opponents score around the basket and they rebound with impunity.

Joel Brown is, I guess, a good on-ball defender, but the rest of them all seem to have one or more flaws in their defensive game. In general, besides our glaring lack of shooting, this just seems to be a low "hoops IQ" group, rarely making the winning-basketball move on either end of the court.

I love Kuany's free throw stroke (also Lars'). Smooth, sound and confident. I believe he's shooting above 80% from the line.

If any of these guys could be convinced to return, I think that would be good (not great). One way or another, there will be plenty of open roster spots for the new coach to fill with better talent

---

---

That covers it, but I would expand the bolded section that this is where coaching scheme comes in. Making sure everyone is on the same page. And it is on Kuany (or any defender) to make sure they are doing the right thing at the right time. Especially if the coach changes up the defense. Two great examples are covering the low post (who doubles and who helps) as well as screening (if everyone is supposed to hedge, but you cover underneath - that gives someone an open lane. Similarly - you're playing a poor shooting team with dominant bigs - coach may want to give up pressure at the 3pt line to deny the interior passing lanes. More typically, you're playing a good shooting team, but the player is giving up open threes to protect the key - when not needed.

HoopDreams said:

---

First thing I look for in a defender is lateral quickness

How well can he stay in front of his man, and if he gets beat on a drive, or gets shaked on a step back, cross-over or hesi, how wellcan he recover

Without that fundamental quickness, athleticism it's tough for any player to be a good defender, although gaining low body strength helps people move better with a lower defensive stance

also defensive skills such as stance in relationship to other player, keep the right distance, knowing how to defend a shot vs a cross over, etc etc etc

One simple example is a ball handler is coached to attack the defenders high foot, so knowing how to counter or make sure there is help side

Understanding defensive principals. Basically being in the right place and knowing your assignments. This includes not over helping, understanding when to go over or under a screen, when to double, how to defend a pick and roll, when to switch, etc, etc, etc

Physical characteristics such as length, strength, jumping ability, and timing of block attempts. This and lateral quickness is what makes 2K a good defender

Also overall hoops IQ. I usually spot high hoops IQ with being a good passer and being able to jump passes for a steal (e.g. Jorge and the ultimate.... Kidd)

Not making bad fouls is another thing to watch. Good example is Lars. As a freshmen he made many dumb fouls but he cleaned that up

So much more but a sample

Big C said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

Agree, and I always think too many people discount or don't even consider defense

He's a very good defender

BC Calfan said:

---

I think Kuany would be a nice piece to have if he decides to return next season. While his improvement has been incremental, it's visible. With a new, capable coach I think he can be put in a better position to flourish. His confidence is there, his shooting touch has improved, instincts are good, he's a solid team player. If his game is fine tuned a little I think he would be a reliable contributor. Plus he seems like a fantastic teammate!

---

---

I would add that Kuany's defense has improved dramatically. He arrived with the length and athleticism, but he has improved his footwork, positioning and defensive teamwork in the the last two seasons particularly. And much of that is adopting counter intuitive defensive behaviors which takes effort. As much as I bash Fox - he might deserve some of the credit for this. But Kuany deserves MOST of the credit for putting in the work and changing his defensive behaviors to improve.

---

BeachedBear and Hoop Dreams: What are you looking for when you assess 2K's defense? Is it more perimeter or interior defense (or both)? I am not disputing your assertion by any means, but when I look at our defense, in the aggregate, we really suck this season. We leave 3-point shooters open, opponents score around the basket and they rebound with impunity.

Joel Brown is, I guess, a good on-ball defender, but the rest of them all seem to have one or more flaws in their defensive game. In general, besides our glaring lack of shooting, this just seems to be a low "hoops IQ" group, rarely making the winning-basketball move on either end of the court.

I love Kuany's free throw stroke (also Lars'). Smooth, sound and confident. I believe he's shooting above 80% from the line.

If any of these guys could be convinced to return, I think that would be good (not great). One way or another, there will be plenty of open roster spots for the new coach to fill with better talent.

---

---

Thanks Hoop Dreams and BeachedBear,

2K having those building blocks to good defense make him look good on paper, but is he actually a good defender? (I don't know.)

With Brown (good) Lars (decent) and Kuany (maybe good), shouldn't we be a better defensive team? Would you both agree that we are a lousy defensive team this year? Here is my breakdown of some of the others...

Askew: Not exactly a turnstile, but not enough lateral quickness and spends too much energy dribbling on the other end.

Alajiki: My pet peeve. I like the guy, but he very often seems to be a step out of position or just making bad decisions.

Newell and Okafor: Okay for true freshman. Will improve, hopefully.

Roberson: Like 2K, seems to possess the building blocks, but is he really a good defender?

Bowser: Just looks so skinny and weak out there, in his third year in program. Maybe he started to turn the corner?

Anyanwu: Makes mistakes, a la Alijiki, but also mixes it up with opponents and screws them up fairly often.


Bottom line: The guys are making an effort out there, but since it became very obvious that the season had gone down the toilet, their 100% is not the "110%" that we need. (over 100% is one of my pet peeves, too, sorry). To say they are "quiet quitting" would be unfair and way too harsh, but they have sort of quietly packed it in.

Here's to better times... soon!

Big C said:

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Bottom line: The guys are making an effort out there, but since it became very obvious that the season had gone down the toilet, their 100% is not the "110%" that we need. (over 100% is one of my pet peeves, too, sorry). To say they are "quiet quitting" would be unfair and way too harsh, but they have sort of quietly packed it in.

Here's to better times... soon!

---

Would it be fair to say that Fox has quietly lost the team?

stu said:

---

Big C said:

---

Bottom line: The guys are making an effort out there, but since it became very obvious that the season had gone down the toilet, their 100% is not the "110%" that we need. (over 100% is one of my pet peeves, too, sorry). To say they are "quiet quitting" would be unfair and way too harsh, but they have sort of quietly packed it in.

Here's to better times... soon!

---

Would it be fair to say that Fox has quietly lost the team?

---

Quietly, yes. The players aren't in open revolt, but are sort of subconsciously going through the motions. I feel like they're "trying to try", but have just been worn down. I don't even feel like they hate Fox (not that they love him), but they can see that it's all over.

Hence the recent blowouts. Games that used to be significantly closer. I feel bad for these guys. Maybe in the future, they can hold onto the Stanfurd home game from this season and repress most of the rest of it.

Big C said:

---

stu said:

---

Big C said:

---

Bottom line: The guys are making an effort out there, but since it became very obvious that the season had gone down the toilet, their 100% is not the "110%" that we need. (over 100% is one of my pet peeves, too, sorry). To say they are "quiet quitting" would be unfair and way too harsh, but they have sort of quietly packed it in.

Here's to better times... soon!

---

Would it be fair to say that Fox has quietly lost the team?

---

Quietly, yes. The players aren't in open revolt, but are sort of subconsciously going through the motions. I feel like they're "trying to try", but have just been worn down. I don't even feel like they hate Fox (not that they love him), but they can see that it's all over.

Hence the recent blowouts. Games that used to be significantly closer. I feel bad for these guys. Maybe in the future, they can hold onto the Stanfurd home game from this season and repress most of the rest of it.

---

I think this is it. All of the lads seem to have a lot of integrity - but my gut tells me they are playing for each other because they have to be on the court. I've coached teams that were totally outclassed in their league (like Cal this season) and most serious basketball players are going to leave it on the court.

However, I bet they are more like 90% vs 110% and for the earlier part of Big C's question about Cal's defense.

Yes - we are a poor defensive team. Brown (good), Lars (decent), Kuany (maybe good) is probably being generous. 5 good players on defense would only be mediocre in the Pac. And one or two less than decent defenders on the court will be exploited - which is mostly what happens to Cal. That makes everyone look bad.