Civil Bear said:Udaman1 was asking about Braun coaching the Bears again.oskidunker said:He doesnt. I asked him in the mens room at Haas.udaman1 said:
what if Braun wanted back in?
Everyone complained about Ben. That's why he was fired.calumnus said:Civil Bear said:Udaman1 was asking about Braun coaching the Bears again.oskidunker said:He doesnt. I asked him in the mens room at Haas.udaman1 said:
what if Braun wanted back in?
It is funny that people here complain about Cuonzo's offense underperforming his recruiting, but no one complains about Braun, who was essentially the same model with worse results.
Bobodeluxe said:Everyone complained about Ben. That's why he was fired.calumnus said:Civil Bear said:Udaman1 was asking about Braun coaching the Bears again.oskidunker said:He doesnt. I asked him in the mens room at Haas.udaman1 said:
what if Braun wanted back in?
It is funny that people here complain about Cuonzo's offense underperforming his recruiting, but no one complains about Braun, who was essentially the same model with worse results.
calumnus said:Civil Bear said:Udaman1 was asking about Braun coaching the Bears again.oskidunker said:He doesnt. I asked him in the mens room at Haas.udaman1 said:
what if Braun wanted back in?
It is funny that people here complain about Cuonzo's offense underperforming his recruiting, but no one complains about Braun, who was essentially the same model with worse results.
Braun did have five tournament teams and a Sweet 16, which I wouldn't call worse results than a single one and done.calumnus said:Civil Bear said:Udaman1 was asking about Braun coaching the Bears again.oskidunker said:He doesnt. I asked him in the mens room at Haas.udaman1 said:
what if Braun wanted back in?
It is funny that people here complain about Cuonzo's offense underperforming his recruiting, but no one complains about Braun, who was essentially the same model with worse results.
HateRed said:
I can guarantee you that any student in California that would go to the high school where I taught would not garner a 3.0 gpa by sleep walking through classes. I would be very interested in seeing a writing sample of your high school student. A-G is not a piece of cake at the high school I taught at for many years.
Play nice.BearlyCareAnymore said:HateRed said:
I can guarantee you that any student in California that would go to the high school where I taught would not garner a 3.0 gpa by sleep walking through classes. I would be very interested in seeing a writing sample of your high school student. A-G is not a piece of cake at the high school I taught at for many years.
Ok Boomer
bluesaxe said:No one has ever won a national championship in hoops at Gonzaga, but losing Matthews hurt.Civil Bear said:Yes, but that one season had 4 NBA prospects and a dead-eye 3-point shooter that went on to win an NC at Gonzaga the following year. Clearly, he was not going to be able to sustain that kind of roster as evidenced by the roster he left for Jones. With his overall career record, rehiring Martin now would be worse than hiring Fox in 2019.4thGenCal said:
Tough grade on Cuonzo. His record at Cal was very good - 62-39! won 19 straight regular season home wins (28 straight over a 2 year stretch) achieved a #14 regular season national ranking and Haas Arena was rocking with several sell outs and attendance in the 9-10K range/game. He brought in some outstanding players and had several other highly rated recruits that the admissions turned down unfortunately. Yes the offense was stagnate, but the overall results were solid. And his players highly respected him. I was sad to see him go - especially in light of what the following 6 years produced in the W/L column.
I'm not sure the roster he left would have been the roster if he stayed. I sure as hell wouldn't go back to that well but I also wouldn't denigrate what he did at Cal despite being frustrated at times.
Bobodeluxe said:Everyone complained about Ben. That's why he was fired.calumnus said:Civil Bear said:Udaman1 was asking about Braun coaching the Bears again.oskidunker said:He doesnt. I asked him in the mens room at Haas.udaman1 said:
what if Braun wanted back in?
It is funny that people here complain about Cuonzo's offense underperforming his recruiting, but no one complains about Braun, who was essentially the same model with worse results.
bearister said:calumnus said:Civil Bear said:Udaman1 was asking about Braun coaching the Bears again.oskidunker said:He doesnt. I asked him in the mens room at Haas.udaman1 said:
what if Braun wanted back in?
It is funny that people here complain about Cuonzo's offense underperforming his recruiting, but no one complains about Braun, who was essentially the same model with worse results.
I disagree. There is a reason Cuonzo Martin lasts about 3 years everywhere. Ben Braun is a decent HC that had good long HC tenures. Ben had an 11 or 12 year run at Cal and a winning percentage of .606. He got institutionally stale at Cal, just like Jeff Tedford did in football after 10 years. It basically happens to everyone sooner or later (other than your Woodens, etc).
HateRed said:
Like I said, I'd love to see a writing sample.
calumnus said:Bobodeluxe said:Everyone complained about Ben. That's why he was fired.calumnus said:Civil Bear said:Udaman1 was asking about Braun coaching the Bears again.oskidunker said:He doesnt. I asked him in the mens room at Haas.udaman1 said:
what if Braun wanted back in?
It is funny that people here complain about Cuonzo's offense underperforming his recruiting, but no one complains about Braun, who was essentially the same model with worse results.
Not anymore. He is like Tedford that way. People criticize Cuonzo more by several magnitudes.
A con usually has a short run.BeachedBear said:
First and foremost, I was excited when Martin was hired. I wish two things had played out differently. And that he would have stayed and built something longer term.
1. First and foremost, he needed to break up his personal assistants crew and bring in SOMEONE who was offensive focused. he also needed to balance his practice time to focus a bit more on Offense.
2. First and foremost, the second thing is that he was a bad combination with Williams and the state of Cal administration at the time. Williams is gone and I don't think the Cal administration has changed much - but my sense is that he would have been more successful during the tenures when Campanelli/Bozeman/Braun were at Cal - in terms of overall program support.
First and foremost, as others have mentioned -maybe there is just something in him that last only 3 years.
Personally I liked both coaches (love Ben's loyalty to Cal and His ongoing willingness to advise/help when asked). People seem to be an overly tough critic of Cuonzo's record at Cal. He won at a very good clip for Cal historical comparison's and even to Ben as well. 62-39 (61.4%) won 18,23 and 21 games all season winning games and a 54% conf total winning record. Higher % wins for season and conf vs Ben. The offset is the post season record though accomplished over a longer duration. All the angst over one embarrassing NIT game (w/o best player Ivan) seems blown out of impact/proportion to body of work. Can absolutely say that His players respected him and believed in him. CM knew where his players were and He also checked in with their professor's as well. Quality Man.BearlyCareAnymore said:calumnus said:Bobodeluxe said:Everyone complained about Ben. That's why he was fired.calumnus said:Civil Bear said:Udaman1 was asking about Braun coaching the Bears again.oskidunker said:He doesnt. I asked him in the mens room at Haas.udaman1 said:
what if Braun wanted back in?
It is funny that people here complain about Cuonzo's offense underperforming his recruiting, but no one complains about Braun, who was essentially the same model with worse results.
Not anymore. He is like Tedford that way. People criticize Cuonzo more by several magnitudes.
I really liked Cuonzo personally. He had a great story and I think he has done a lot of admirable things in his life. I defended him a lot especially against pretty relentless attacks from a certain poster from the City. But he seemed to refuse to adjust his recruiting, choosing instead to complain. And quite frankly that NIT game was a dirt bag thing to do and it was hard not to lose respect for him after that. It is probably the most unprofessional thing I've seen a Cal coach do. I kind of saw that train wreck coming so I didn't experience it first hand so could be more bemused than anything, but I think the anger from those that watched it is justified. He got out before his tanked recruiting caught up with him.
Braun actually left Monty a pretty great roster to build from and I would say left the program better than he found it. Warts and all, I think there is good reason to have more fondness for his tenure. Honestly, don't see the claim that he had worse results. Braun inherited a program in scandal coming of a first round knockout having lost a lottery player and what most thought was the bulk of the talent, suffered the loss to injury of the primary scorer, another lottery pick and came extremely close to the Elite Eight. Martin inherited a solid program that had gone 2nd, 2nd and 3rd in conference the prior 3 years, hadn't finished lower than 4th in 6 years, and proceeded to finish eighth. He had two massive signings and otherwise whiffed leaving the cupboard bare. He had one very good year with a loaded team that ended badly. Braun's best tournament results were better than Martin's. His best conference record was better than Martin's. Hell, his NIT results were better than Martin's. I'm not really sure what positives you can attribute to Martin other than signing Rabb and Brown. The team Martin had was easily more talented than the team that won two rounds in the NCAA's, easily more talented than Braun's team that finished higher in the conference standings, and easily more talented than the team that rode Brian Wethers and Joe Shipp to a better conference record and better tournament finish.
As for Tedford, that isn't close. It ended badly as it sometimes does with successful programs, but it was inevitable that with time people would come around on him. He flat out gave more joy than any football coach at Cal in almost anyone's living memory. When I look back at my Cal football fandom, it is basically Chuck Muncie, The Play, That is the only song you know, the Citrus Bowl, and a whole lot of Tedford.
movielover said:
This move was at least six weeks overdue.
