Bobodeluxe said:

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The term "old white men" is a tell.

Mike Williams hired Wyking because he likes guys two feet taller than himself?

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Bobodeluxe said:

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The term "old white men" is a tell.

Mike Williams hired Wyking because he likes guys two feet taller than himself?

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Quote:

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Noun. tell (plural tells) A reflexive, often habitual behavior, especially one occurring in a context that often features attempts at deception by persons under psychological stress (such as a poker game or police interrogation), that reveals information that the person exhibiting the behavior is attempting to withhold

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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mdbear said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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southseasbear said:

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Knowlton hiring Fox over Gates and Decuire occurred because one old white man was "more comfortable" with another old white man.

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You have absolutely no evidence for this statement.

Would you say this to Knowlton's face?

You should think twice before throwing charges of racism around.

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I would be happy to say it to Knowlton's face. (In fact, I was looking for him as I entered and left Pauley Pavilion when we played Southern Branch a few weeks ago.) Feel free to schedule the meeting.

At best this is an example of "unconscious bias."

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It's possible that Knowlton decided he wanted someone with extensive experience. Perhaps Christ gave him some mandates for the hire, which steered him towards Fox.

Again, you have no proof of any type of racism on the part of Knowlton.

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As a labor employment attorney (with experience on both the union side and management) I cringed when I read his statement. I'm wiling to bet UC's attorney's did as well. Besides, I don't need "proof" as I'm not trying to establish a case; I'm just sharing my opinion. You are free to disagree.

BTW, it seems out of character for Christ to micromanage the hiring of a coach. Nevertheless, even if Christ and Knowlton decided it had to be someone with experience, they could and should have hired DeCuire.

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I am a labor and employment lawyer who has come down hard when I see evidence of racial bias in hiring. You are exactly right when you state that this is your opinion only, and it is a reckless allegation to throw around with no factual basis. Good labor and employment lawyers analyze the facts and evidence before drawing inferences of discrimination. Many people hire based on their gut and comfort level with a candidate. Sometimes that gut includes bias, but sometimes it is for non-discriminatory reasons. I am not defending Knowlton. He has made bad coaching choices, with ample evidence to support that statement.

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Knowlton did an interview after the hire where he explained the process and discussed his interviews with Decuire (it wasn't Gates - as I and Greg said, he didn't interview Gates) and Fox and why he liked Fox and not Decuire. It was cliche affinity bias. It sounded like a scenario straight out of affinity bias training. (frankly, the fact that he was so stupid to say the things he did like they were a good thing, when his job is to hire extremely valuable employees was mindblowing) That is not the same as racial bias. Affinity bias could be you come from the same town, you both play golf, whatever. But the basic point is, your comfort level as a person or your gut has exceptionally little to do with a candidate's qualifications. Pretty much any responsible corporation now has training that specifically discusses guarding against hiring with your gut and based on comfort level. The number one point was that it leads to horrible hires that bite you in the ass. Recommendations include having multiple people from different backgrounds involved in the interview process and making it a point to challenge your "comfort" level with specific facts about the candidates. Knowlton did neither of those things. The bottom line is that based on their mutual record, the recommendation of Monty who knew a hell of a lot more about basketball and the two candidates than Knowlton did, Decuire's direct experience at Cal, how much Decuire was liked by former Cal players, alums, and people in the athletic department, if you had to hire without an interview, it wasn't a close question. Knowlton chucked all evidence out the window based on a gut reaction at an interview. That is awful hiring. It could have been because they are both older White dudes. It could have been because they both have an old school (and hopelessly out of date) view of coaching. It could have been because Fox would explain his strategies in a way that spoke to Knowlton where Decuire didn't. He should have challenged that as a hiring manager. If you look at the threads from when Fox was hired, a lot of us saw exactly what was coming. Fox was a mindblowingly shyty hire on its face. Period. I didn't think Cal could make a more patently stupid hire than when they hired Tom Holmoe, but this one managed to top that.

Affinity bias can be based on a lot of things. As a general impact on society it tends to promote old White men because there are a lot more old White men in a position to hire, but that doesn't mean it is always discriminatory. It is always bad practice.

I disagree with you that the discussion is reckless. I'm sorry, but his process was poor and antiquated and whether he was specifically racially bias in this case, it is a process that overall in society perpetuates discrimination based on race and gender and should be rooted out. It is reckless not to discuss it. No one is bringing a legal claim against him. We can't be asked to fulfill the impossible task of proving what is in someone's heart before we discuss a process that person uses that when used by many people has been demonstrated to screw over people often based on race, ethnicity and gender, and more importantly in this case frequently leads to unqualified hires and specifically did lead to an unqualified hire in this case.

I'm not going to call him a racist. I am going to say he is crappy at hiring people and the process he used when widely practiced in society is well known to lead to racist results over the whole population.

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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mdbear said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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southseasbear said:

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Knowlton hiring Fox over Gates and Decuire occurred because one old white man was "more comfortable" with another old white man.

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You have absolutely no evidence for this statement.

Would you say this to Knowlton's face?

You should think twice before throwing charges of racism around.

---

I would be happy to say it to Knowlton's face. (In fact, I was looking for him as I entered and left Pauley Pavilion when we played Southern Branch a few weeks ago.) Feel free to schedule the meeting.

At best this is an example of "unconscious bias."

---

It's possible that Knowlton decided he wanted someone with extensive experience. Perhaps Christ gave him some mandates for the hire, which steered him towards Fox.

Again, you have no proof of any type of racism on the part of Knowlton.

---

As a labor employment attorney (with experience on both the union side and management) I cringed when I read his statement. I'm wiling to bet UC's attorney's did as well. Besides, I don't need "proof" as I'm not trying to establish a case; I'm just sharing my opinion. You are free to disagree.

BTW, it seems out of character for Christ to micromanage the hiring of a coach. Nevertheless, even if Christ and Knowlton decided it had to be someone with experience, they could and should have hired DeCuire.

---

I am a labor and employment lawyer who has come down hard when I see evidence of racial bias in hiring. You are exactly right when you state that this is your opinion only, and it is a reckless allegation to throw around with no factual basis. Good labor and employment lawyers analyze the facts and evidence before drawing inferences of discrimination. Many people hire based on their gut and comfort level with a candidate. Sometimes that gut includes bias, but sometimes it is for non-discriminatory reasons. I am not defending Knowlton. He has made bad coaching choices, with ample evidence to support that statement.

---

Knowlton did an interview after the hire where he explained the process and discussed his interviews with Decuire (it wasn't Gates - as I and Greg said, he didn't interview Gates) and Fox and why he liked Fox and not Decuire. It was cliche affinity bias. It sounded like a scenario straight out of affinity bias training. (frankly, the fact that he was so stupid to say the things he did like they were a good thing, when his job is to hire extremely valuable employees was mindblowing) That is not the same as racial bias. Affinity bias could be you come from the same town, you both play golf, whatever. But the basic point is, your comfort level as a person or your gut has exceptionally little to do with a candidate's qualifications. Pretty much any responsible corporation now has training that specifically discusses guarding against hiring with your gut and based on comfort level. The number one point was that it leads to horrible hires that bite you in the ass. Recommendations include having multiple people from different backgrounds involved in the interview process and making it a point to challenge your "comfort" level with specific facts about the candidates. Knowlton did neither of those things. The bottom line is that based on their mutual record, the recommendation of Monty who knew a hell of a lot more about basketball and the two candidates than Knowlton did, Decuire's direct experience at Cal, how much Decuire was liked by former Cal players, alums, and people in the athletic department, if you had to hire without an interview, it wasn't a close question. Knowlton chucked all evidence out the window based on a gut reaction at an interview. That is awful hiring. It could have been because they are both older White dudes. It could have been because they both have an old school (and hopelessly out of date) view of coaching. It could have been because Fox would explain his strategies in a way that spoke to Knowlton where Decuire didn't. He should have challenged that as a hiring manager. If you look at the threads from when Fox was hired, a lot of us saw exactly what was coming. Fox was a mindblowingly shyty hire on its face. Period. I didn't think Cal could make a more patently stupid hire than when they hired Tom Holmoe, but this one managed to top that.

Affinity bias can be based on a lot of things. As a general impact on society it tends to promote old White men because there are a lot more old White men in a position to hire, but that doesn't mean it is always discriminatory. It is always bad practice.

I disagree with you that the discussion is reckless. I'm sorry, but his process was poor and antiquated and whether he was specifically racially bias in this case, it is a process that overall in society perpetuates discrimination based on race and gender and should be rooted out. It is reckless not to discuss it. No one is bringing a legal claim against him. We can't be asked to fulfill the impossible task of proving what is in someone's heart before we discuss a process that person uses that when used by many people has been demonstrated to screw over people often based on race, ethnicity and gender, and more importantly in this case frequently leads to unqualified hires and specifically did lead to an unqualified hire in this case.

I'm not going to call him a racist. I am going to say he is crappy at hiring people and the process he used when widely practiced in society is well known to lead to racist results over the whole population.

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oskidunker said:

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Just in: Mizzou announces Dennis Gates has signed a new deal that extends his contract through 2028-29. He's getting bumped up to $4 million annually. Gates has Missouri cruising into the NCAAs in his first season. Was considered a potential sleeper candidate for Georgetown

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mdbear said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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mdbear said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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southseasbear said:

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Knowlton hiring Fox over Gates and Decuire occurred because one old white man was "more comfortable" with another old white man.

---

You have absolutely no evidence for this statement.

Would you say this to Knowlton's face?

You should think twice before throwing charges of racism around.

---

I would be happy to say it to Knowlton's face. (In fact, I was looking for him as I entered and left Pauley Pavilion when we played Southern Branch a few weeks ago.) Feel free to schedule the meeting.

At best this is an example of "unconscious bias."

---

It's possible that Knowlton decided he wanted someone with extensive experience. Perhaps Christ gave him some mandates for the hire, which steered him towards Fox.

Again, you have no proof of any type of racism on the part of Knowlton.

---

As a labor employment attorney (with experience on both the union side and management) I cringed when I read his statement. I'm wiling to bet UC's attorney's did as well. Besides, I don't need "proof" as I'm not trying to establish a case; I'm just sharing my opinion. You are free to disagree.

BTW, it seems out of character for Christ to micromanage the hiring of a coach. Nevertheless, even if Christ and Knowlton decided it had to be someone with experience, they could and should have hired DeCuire.

---

I am a labor and employment lawyer who has come down hard when I see evidence of racial bias in hiring. You are exactly right when you state that this is your opinion only, and it is a reckless allegation to throw around with no factual basis. Good labor and employment lawyers analyze the facts and evidence before drawing inferences of discrimination. Many people hire based on their gut and comfort level with a candidate. Sometimes that gut includes bias, but sometimes it is for non-discriminatory reasons. I am not defending Knowlton. He has made bad coaching choices, with ample evidence to support that statement.

---

Knowlton did an interview after the hire where he explained the process and discussed his interviews with Decuire (it wasn't Gates - as I and Greg said, he didn't interview Gates) and Fox and why he liked Fox and not Decuire. It was cliche affinity bias. It sounded like a scenario straight out of affinity bias training. (frankly, the fact that he was so stupid to say the things he did like they were a good thing, when his job is to hire extremely valuable employees was mindblowing) That is not the same as racial bias. Affinity bias could be you come from the same town, you both play golf, whatever. But the basic point is, your comfort level as a person or your gut has exceptionally little to do with a candidate's qualifications. Pretty much any responsible corporation now has training that specifically discusses guarding against hiring with your gut and based on comfort level. The number one point was that it leads to horrible hires that bite you in the ass. Recommendations include having multiple people from different backgrounds involved in the interview process and making it a point to challenge your "comfort" level with specific facts about the candidates. Knowlton did neither of those things. The bottom line is that based on their mutual record, the recommendation of Monty who knew a hell of a lot more about basketball and the two candidates than Knowlton did, Decuire's direct experience at Cal, how much Decuire was liked by former Cal players, alums, and people in the athletic department, if you had to hire without an interview, it wasn't a close question. Knowlton chucked all evidence out the window based on a gut reaction at an interview. That is awful hiring. It could have been because they are both older White dudes. It could have been because they both have an old school (and hopelessly out of date) view of coaching. It could have been because Fox would explain his strategies in a way that spoke to Knowlton where Decuire didn't. He should have challenged that as a hiring manager. If you look at the threads from when Fox was hired, a lot of us saw exactly what was coming. Fox was a mindblowingly shyty hire on its face. Period. I didn't think Cal could make a more patently stupid hire than when they hired Tom Holmoe, but this one managed to top that.

Affinity bias can be based on a lot of things. As a general impact on society it tends to promote old White men because there are a lot more old White men in a position to hire, but that doesn't mean it is always discriminatory. It is always bad practice.

I disagree with you that the discussion is reckless. I'm sorry, but his process was poor and antiquated and whether he was specifically racially bias in this case, it is a process that overall in society perpetuates discrimination based on race and gender and should be rooted out. It is reckless not to discuss it. No one is bringing a legal claim against him. We can't be asked to fulfill the impossible task of proving what is in someone's heart before we discuss a process that person uses that when used by many people has been demonstrated to screw over people often based on race, ethnicity and gender, and more importantly in this case frequently leads to unqualified hires and specifically did lead to an unqualified hire in this case.

I'm not going to call him a racist. I am going to say he is crappy at hiring people and the process he used when widely practiced in society is well known to lead to racist results over the whole population.

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Big C,

Congratulations on an excellent post in response to mine. I agree with your well reasoned explanation of why affinity based hiring often leads to bad hiring decisions. As you correctly point out, affinity based hiring could be based on coming from the same town, or it could be based on being the same race. My disagreement with Southseasbear is that he uses his profession as a labor lawyer to bolster his opinion without evidence that Knowlton hired Fox because he is also an older white male. If Knowlton made the decision based on Fox's gender, race, or age, it would be unlawful. That is why he I stated that Southseasbear was being reckless in making such an allegation without evidence. I agree with your broader point that there should be more discussion of bias in hiring and that the best qualified person should be offered the job.

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mdbear said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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mdbear said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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southseasbear said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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southseasbear said:

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Knowlton hiring Fox over Gates and Decuire occurred because one old white man was "more comfortable" with another old white man.

---

You have absolutely no evidence for this statement.

Would you say this to Knowlton's face?

You should think twice before throwing charges of racism around.

---

I would be happy to say it to Knowlton's face. (In fact, I was looking for him as I entered and left Pauley Pavilion when we played Southern Branch a few weeks ago.) Feel free to schedule the meeting.

At best this is an example of "unconscious bias."

---

It's possible that Knowlton decided he wanted someone with extensive experience. Perhaps Christ gave him some mandates for the hire, which steered him towards Fox.

Again, you have no proof of any type of racism on the part of Knowlton.

---

As a labor employment attorney (with experience on both the union side and management) I cringed when I read his statement. I'm wiling to bet UC's attorney's did as well. Besides, I don't need "proof" as I'm not trying to establish a case; I'm just sharing my opinion. You are free to disagree.

BTW, it seems out of character for Christ to micromanage the hiring of a coach. Nevertheless, even if Christ and Knowlton decided it had to be someone with experience, they could and should have hired DeCuire.

---

I am a labor and employment lawyer who has come down hard when I see evidence of racial bias in hiring. You are exactly right when you state that this is your opinion only, and it is a reckless allegation to throw around with no factual basis. Good labor and employment lawyers analyze the facts and evidence before drawing inferences of discrimination. Many people hire based on their gut and comfort level with a candidate. Sometimes that gut includes bias, but sometimes it is for non-discriminatory reasons. I am not defending Knowlton. He has made bad coaching choices, with ample evidence to support that statement.

---

Knowlton did an interview after the hire where he explained the process and discussed his interviews with Decuire (it wasn't Gates - as I and Greg said, he didn't interview Gates) and Fox and why he liked Fox and not Decuire. It was cliche affinity bias. It sounded like a scenario straight out of affinity bias training. (frankly, the fact that he was so stupid to say the things he did like they were a good thing, when his job is to hire extremely valuable employees was mindblowing) That is not the same as racial bias. Affinity bias could be you come from the same town, you both play golf, whatever. But the basic point is, your comfort level as a person or your gut has exceptionally little to do with a candidate's qualifications. Pretty much any responsible corporation now has training that specifically discusses guarding against hiring with your gut and based on comfort level. The number one point was that it leads to horrible hires that bite you in the ass. Recommendations include having multiple people from different backgrounds involved in the interview process and making it a point to challenge your "comfort" level with specific facts about the candidates. Knowlton did neither of those things. The bottom line is that based on their mutual record, the recommendation of Monty who knew a hell of a lot more about basketball and the two candidates than Knowlton did, Decuire's direct experience at Cal, how much Decuire was liked by former Cal players, alums, and people in the athletic department, if you had to hire without an interview, it wasn't a close question. Knowlton chucked all evidence out the window based on a gut reaction at an interview. That is awful hiring. It could have been because they are both older White dudes. It could have been because they both have an old school (and hopelessly out of date) view of coaching. It could have been because Fox would explain his strategies in a way that spoke to Knowlton where Decuire didn't. He should have challenged that as a hiring manager. If you look at the threads from when Fox was hired, a lot of us saw exactly what was coming. Fox was a mindblowingly shyty hire on its face. Period. I didn't think Cal could make a more patently stupid hire than when they hired Tom Holmoe, but this one managed to top that.

Affinity bias can be based on a lot of things. As a general impact on society it tends to promote old White men because there are a lot more old White men in a position to hire, but that doesn't mean it is always discriminatory. It is always bad practice.

I disagree with you that the discussion is reckless. I'm sorry, but his process was poor and antiquated and whether he was specifically racially bias in this case, it is a process that overall in society perpetuates discrimination based on race and gender and should be rooted out. It is reckless not to discuss it. No one is bringing a legal claim against him. We can't be asked to fulfill the impossible task of proving what is in someone's heart before we discuss a process that person uses that when used by many people has been demonstrated to screw over people often based on race, ethnicity and gender, and more importantly in this case frequently leads to unqualified hires and specifically did lead to an unqualified hire in this case.

I'm not going to call him a racist. I am going to say he is crappy at hiring people and the process he used when widely practiced in society is well known to lead to racist results over the whole population.

---

Big C,

Congratulations on an excellent post in response to mine. I agree with your well reasoned explanation of why affinity based hiring often leads to bad hiring decisions. As you correctly point out, affinity based hiring could be based on coming from the same town, or it could be based on being the same race. My disagreement with Southseasbear is that he uses his profession as a labor lawyer to bolster his opinion without evidence that Knowlton hired Fox because he is also an older white male. If Knowlton made the decision based on Fox's gender, race, or age, it would be unlawful. That is why he I stated that Southseasbear was being reckless in making such an allegation without evidence. I agree with your broader point that there should be more discussion of bias in hiring and that the best qualified person should be offered the job.

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