Random Thoughts on Cal's next coach

3,715 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by bearister
socaltownie
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As I wait for the office coffee to brew I thought I might jot down some thoughts. Feel free to get a good chuckle.

As way of background I grew up (ergo the username) as a "faculty brat", introduced to Cal Basketball in the Edwards days. It remains, I believe, the greatest sport in the world with a fantastic one-and-done tournament at the end of the season. It is perfection.

I also have work and educational experience that has taken me to several of the UCs OTHER than Cal. I have tangentially studied higher educational governance and understand the business side of higher education, again from a work experience. That doesn't make me an expert but hopefully provides a way of background in respect to perspective. I also tend to be someone of strong opinions.....

1) When it comes to revenue sports (and basketball) Cal is a REGIONAL school.

By this I mean that the core talent on Cal teams has ALWAYS come from California and often the Bay Area. There is nothing wrong with this. MOST NCAA teams are built this way. For many, college is a "first in family" experience. Being closer to home matters. Familiarity matters. There are maybe a HANDFUL of true bloodbloods that recruit nationally - either because they have brand (KU) or because they are forced to because of the lack of population in their metro (Zaga). But even North Carolina - the bluest of royalty - often had squads whose talent came from NC, Virginia or Georgia.

An exercise to do is to take Cal rosters that made it to the dance (or even got 10+ wins in the Pac12 and see who were the key guys and the glue guys. While there are the rare Jaylen Brown or the SAR, the rosters usually are chalk full of Birds, Cobbs, Theos,Andersons, Rabbs. Indeed, in my years of following Cal hoop really only three players made significant contributions to good Cal teams who were not California natives: Brown, Jorge, Randle.

1.5) That can create a disconnect with the university and the fans

But Cal as an institution is anything BUT a regional school. It has an international reputation and likely one of the 10 american institutions of Higher education that does. It draws applicants - undergrad, grad, and faculty - from all over the globe. And thus there is often this disconnect that while students from say France have heard about Cal and want to go to Cal the same should hold true for basketball players.

But this is not the case. For those that have the talent to win hoop is akin to a great musical conservancy. While UC Berkeley maybe a great shool for most, the other Berklee is where the apsiring jazz star is going. Thus point #1.

2) Being a regional sports player in the East Bay means having the cultural ability to recruit first in family to go to college African american players (as well as understand SoCal).

This is culturally senstive but it is critical that the staff understand African American families and cultural norms that exist in CALIFORNIA. That is different than the South. It is different than the urbanized east/midwest. It isn't some foreign land but it is distinct and important to navigate that with sensitivity and understanding.

Don't take the old white dude's word for it. Listen to Jaylen Brown who underscored the importance of coaching qualities in thinking about the replacements for Martin/Jones. Or even Jones - who was decidedly learning on the job but actually COULD STILL recruit better talent than Fox.

2.5) Doubly so because Cal is a pretty isolating place for AA students.

Cal isn't as bad as some but consider that 3.4% of the undergrad body at Cal is AA. UCLA isn't great but it is at 5%. Even Zona beats Cal at 3.9%. Lots of reasons for this - starting at the top with Prop 209, but it is what it is. That means that a coach must build a place of support for the players and help them navigate that.

3) One conclusion from this is that the new coach MUST know AAU California

Now people can learn. Skills can translate. But there are only so many days of the year. I truly believe that Cal's coach needs to be able to hit the ground running and that means having relationships with the amatuer coaches (AAU) throughout the state. Those relationships and trust are going to be key.

4) Another is that navigating the "inside" game will be key

Cal is different. It just is in the higher education landscape. Too many reasons for an already way long post to go into but a coach - especially with an "outsider" AD - will have a steep learning curve of what can't happen at Cal which is par for the course at most other P5s. And before you type "well just ask the chancellor" it is important to note that unlike a lot of places shorter term Chancellors in the system ALSO are pretty heavily constrained.

THis inside game gets you things. It gets you understanding (or patience) with faculty *******ry. It lets you build the critical support for grad transfer support. It alows you to understand how to ensure that funds are not diverted away from the program and also helps you understand who is important and who isn't in the overall Donor development game the university is playing.

5) So who should we hire SCT?

I have made no secret that I think Joe P navigates this the best. I also think a coach like Romar 15 years ago could have - and as we are finding out Seattle is a hard place to attract talent when you don't have SOCal AAU relationships.. I would have liked to see Gates give it a try - though worried that the Sherrif's roots were in the East rather than the West. Travis is still worth an interview because Montana is REALLY hard to recruit to. But whomever the candidate is these are qualities that matter.

6) But what about the picket fence?

One thing that drives me to drink (a tasty SoCal IPA) is the idea that we can just "coach em up". There just isn't TIME to do that. Especially true at a school like Cal that is going to demand time away from the court from its student athletes. Coaches matter but if your style of coaching requires hours upon hours of drilling and putting hoop in front of all good luck with that and Mr. Fox would like a call.

7) Or NIL?

Yes. NIL will matter. But I think it mostly matters as a "necessary but not sufficient" inducement. the NFL is a brutal career, with the average length of tenure being still under 4 years. You NEED to make money in college because your "paying" career is short.

But the NBA is far different. YEs. Players do wash out but for probably the top 2/3 of the league the earnings they could make in NIL are DWARFED by their first unrestricted constract. Their life time earnings will be far exceed anything an NIL deal will be. And NIL - unless just legalized inducements which the NCAA will probably wack - requires that you WIN and generate brand value.

Let me close with saying that is why I truly fear Miles. He checks NONE of the boxes except a white dude that Jeff the con man is probably comfortable with. He will fit the mold of Christ's misconception of the role of a modern revenue coach - a "molder of young adults with lifes lessons." Joe P isn't perfect but he is, IMO, the best candidate and can get the job done.
joe amos yaks
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Thank you. This is really good stuff.
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
Polodad
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This is likely the best post I have ever read here. Thanks.
CalLifer
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I'd only add that I think guys like Lampley and SAR should be added to the list of people from outside the Bay Area who had a huge impact. SAR was the first freshman in the Pac-10 to be POY, and Lampley was the best player on NIT/NCAA teams.
Econ141
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Great write up of your thoughts. I would add Sean Lampley to your list for graduating as the all-time scoring leader and helping us win that NIT championship
Jeff82
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It's a great post. I would only add that the mentions of Lampley and SAR and Brown in particular bring up one other point that SCT didn't mention, which is that to the extent we ever get one-and-dones, they are kids who are coming here for the Berkeley experience. That's why I always laughed when people complained that Brown didn't spend more time working on his mid-range jumper, or figuring out how not to to commit charges by driving into two defenders. HE DIDN'T COME TO CAL TO DO ANY OF THAT!!!!!! If his interest was in working on his game, he would have gone to Kansas, Kentucky or one of the other hoop factories. I believe he and his parents figured out, probably assisted by SAR, who knew the family in Atlanta, that his one year in college, assuming he stayed healthy, wasn't going to significantly impact his NBA earnings one way or the other. Therefore, he decided to spend his one year some place where he would enjoy the college experience.

Contrast this with, for example, Klay Thompson, who said he went to WSU because he could get a key to the gym, because the academic load wasn't super taxing, and because there wasn't all that much else to do in Pullman other than work on his jump shot.

We just need to keep this in mind in terms of who we recruit, and how we treat the kids who come. One-and-dones will be rare, most likely, and we should appreciate them for what they can contribute, not complain.
socaltownie
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Econ141 said:

Great write up of your thoughts. I would add Sean Lampley to your list for graduating as the all-time scoring leader and helping us win that NIT championship
That is absolutely correct. Lampley and Jerome I put into this category of "Chicago guys Braun knew." I shoudn't have overlooked as you point out, Cal's all time scoring leaders.

One of the relatively unique things about Braun (and boy I would love to give him career advice) is that he had those roots which DID help Cal. But when you are 3 hours by plane and 2 time zones those relationships start to weaken. He would have, IMO, KILLED IT coaching at UofI or Michigan or Iowa or all the other places that require a pipeline to the windy city for talent.

But Ben is also a kid of hollywood/LA. He clearly loves California and the Bay Area. So good for him.
socaltownie
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Jeff82 said:

It's a great post. I would only add that the mentions of Lampley and SAR and Brown in particular bring up one other point that SCT didn't mention, which is that to the extent we ever get one-and-dones, they are kids who are coming here for the Berkeley experience. That's why I always laughed when people complained that Brown didn't spend more time working on his mid-range jumper, or figuring out how not to to commit charges by driving into two defenders. HE DIDN'T COME TO CAL TO DO ANY OF THAT!!!!!! If his interest was in working on his game, he would have gone to Kansas, Kentucky or one of the other hoop factories. I believe he and his parents figured out, probably assisted by SAR, who knew the family in Atlanta, that his one year in college, assuming he stayed healthy, wasn't going to significantly impact his NBA earnings one way or the other. Therefore, he decided to spend his one year some place where he would enjoy the college experience.

Contrast this with, for example, Klay Thompson, who said he went to WSU because he could get a key to the gym, because the academic load wasn't super taxing, and because there wasn't all that much else to do in Pullman other than work on his jump shot.

We just need to keep this in mind in terms of who we recruit, and how we treat the kids who come. One-and-dones will be rare, most likely, and we should appreciate them for what they can contribute, not complain.
Absolutely. Or kids that want to stay home. Think about a Cal team (and a UCB that was welcoming) that had Gary Payton, Gary Payton Junior or Damian Lillard.
Jeff82
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Agreed, which is why the next coach needs to have relationships with the Soldiers, Prolific Prep and the rest of the AAU infrastructure in California. That's why it should be Pasternack, if he'll take the job, or a young AA coach.
Jeff82
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socaltownie said:

Econ141 said:

Great write up of your thoughts. I would add Sean Lampley to your list for graduating as the all-time scoring leader and helping us win that NIT championship
That is absolutely correct. Lampley and Jerome I put into this category of "Chicago guys Braun knew." I shoudn't have overlooked as you point out, Cal's all time scoring leaders.

One of the relatively unique things about Braun (and boy I would love to give him career advice) is that he had those roots which DID help Cal. But when you are 3 hours by plane and 2 time zones those relationships start to weaken. He would have, IMO, KILLED IT coaching at UofI or Michigan or Iowa or all the other places that require a pipeline to the windy city for talent.

But Ben is also a kid of hollywood/LA. He clearly loves California and the Bay Area. So good for him.
Braun actually had two pipelines, to Chicago and the Midwest, because he was from there, and to Israel, because he's a practicing Jew.

I agree he and Monty were the best coaches we've had since Newell. I give Monty higher marks because of his ability to take what I would call near-elite players, like Crabbe, and convince them to add aspects to their individual games, in the off season, to make them better. His players almost always improved during their time in the program, for that reason. When I refer to coaching players up, that's what I'm talking about, not what happens during the season. I suspect getting players to do that was part of Monty's blunt approach, which also sometimes turned kids off.

Braun was not as good at getting players to improve themselves, IMHO, which is why his best teams were the 96-97 team he largely inherited from Bozeman, which had very experienced players, and the NIT team, which had two upper classmen who followed Braun from Eastern Michigan.
BeachedBear
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I share these thoughts. WRT Regional recruiting, I think Cal can use its recruiting ADVANTAGES to hold down California and then cherry pick a couple of gems form out of state (Lampley, Abdur Rahim, Jaylen Brown, etc.).

The local connection to AAU and HS programs is also core. They need to get to know EVERYONE in the Bay Area and most in SoCal. And whoever steps in is going to need to master the portal.

The Head Coach doesn't need to do all wrt recruiting. But ABSOLUTELY needs to be able to put together a staff to fill the gaps and change if needed. That was a real frustration with Fox and even Cuonzo (maybe Jones, too - but I can't even recall who was on his staff).

Big head nodding on the 'Coach em up' thought too. Along with Portal/NIL - probably the biggest change in college basketball in the last few years. As you say, there just isn't the time - and if you succeed, likely they will transfer. Best example is Lars. I think he improved alot at Cal. If this was the 80s, it would be a great story. but honestly it took 4 years for him to develop from a rather poor P5 starter to a barely moderate one. I really don't mean to knock Lars at all, I'm just being honest with where he was at and where he got in relation to other starting big men in the P12 during his tenure.
Stormy4tre
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Excellent post. I am a Black alum class of '70 and donated to athletic programs for years and had season tickets to both football and basketball. When Fox was hired, and Cal started playing night football games that ended close to midnight I gave up both sports and stopped contributing. Paraphrasing your post since I disagree with your candidate, Cal needs a coach who is "hip" and has sufficient name recognition to attract local talent. I agree that recruiting locally is critical. The past reasons Cal failed in my opinion were twofold. First was arrogance. We thought we were better than we were, both as a program and as a destination. The reality is that talented kids have options. Why attend a school with lousy racial diversity and merely adequate facilities? Remember that Bozeman was not local but he brought his swagger with him. That enabled him to attract both local, Lamond Murray and Kidd along with Yogi. If he had more integrity we all might have prospered. Same for Martin.
Secondly we keep hiring coaches who are neither familiar with the area or with Cal athletics. Forget the national search and focus on applicants who can succeed at Cal. We don't need another 50 year old retread. We need to take a risk on a dynamic younger coach. because we cannot afford an established coach. Gates would have been the perfect hire. He loved Cal and he was dynamic. Sadly that ship has sailed. There are several Cal alums who possess the energy and knowledge of Cal to do the job. My suggestion is we look at the Cal alum pool first instead of what has happened repeatedly in the past, and ignore our own.
Civil Bear
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Jeff82 said:

socaltownie said:

Econ141 said:

Great write up of your thoughts. I would add Sean Lampley to your list for graduating as the all-time scoring leader and helping us win that NIT championship
That is absolutely correct. Lampley and Jerome I put into this category of "Chicago guys Braun knew." I shoudn't have overlooked as you point out, Cal's all time scoring leaders.

One of the relatively unique things about Braun (and boy I would love to give him career advice) is that he had those roots which DID help Cal. But when you are 3 hours by plane and 2 time zones those relationships start to weaken. He would have, IMO, KILLED IT coaching at UofI or Michigan or Iowa or all the other places that require a pipeline to the windy city for talent.

But Ben is also a kid of hollywood/LA. He clearly loves California and the Bay Area. So good for him.
Braun actually had two pipelines, to Chicago and the Midwest, because he was from there, and to Israel, because he's a practicing Jew.

I agree he and Monty were the best coaches we've had since Newell. I give Monty higher marks because of his ability to take what I would call near-elite players, like Crabbe, and convince them to add aspects to their individual games, in the off season, to make them better. His players almost always improved during their time in the program, for that reason. When I refer to coaching players up, that's what I'm talking about, not what happens during the season. I suspect getting players to do that was part of Monty's blunt approach, which also sometimes turned kids off.

Braun was not as good at getting players to improve themselves, IMHO, which is why his best teams were the 96-97 team he largely inherited from Bozeman, which had very experienced players, and the NIT team, which had two upper classmen who followed Braun from Eastern Michigan.
I don't believe Braun had any players from EMU, but regardless, that team was not as good as the teams he had when his rockfish players were all upperclassmen. That early pipeline dried up when his top assistant (forget his name) landed an HC job.
stu
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BeachedBear said:

...
The Head Coach doesn't need to do all wrt recruiting. But ABSOLUTELY needs to be able to put together a staff to fill the gaps and change if needed. That was a real frustration with Fox and even Cuonzo (maybe Jones, too - but I can't even recall who was on his staff).
...
The HC can't do all the recruiting but will have to decide who to offer then close the deal.
socaltownie
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Stormy4tre said:

Excellent post. I am a Black alum class of '70 and donated to athletic programs for years and had season tickets to both football and basketball. When Fox was hired, and Cal started playing night football games that ended close to midnight I gave up both sports and stopped contributing. Paraphrasing your post since I disagree with your candidate, Cal needs a coach who is "hip" and has sufficient name recognition to attract local talent. I agree that recruiting locally is critical. The past reasons Cal failed in my opinion were twofold. First was arrogance. We thought we were better than we were, both as a program and as a destination. The reality is that talented kids have options. Why attend a school with lousy racial diversity and merely adequate facilities? Remember that Bozeman was not local but he brought his swagger with him. That enabled him to attract both local, Lamond Murray and Kidd along with Yogi. If he had more integrity we all might have prospered. Same for Martin.
Secondly we keep hiring coaches who are neither familiar with the area or with Cal athletics. Forget the national search and focus on applicants who can succeed at Cal. We don't need another 50 year old retread. We need to take a risk on a dynamic younger coach. because we cannot afford an established coach. Gates would have been the perfect hire. He loved Cal and he was dynamic. Sadly that ship has sailed. There are several Cal alums who possess the energy and knowledge of Cal to do the job. My suggestion is we look at the Cal alum pool first instead of what has happened repeatedly in the past, and ignore our own.
I don't disagree at ALL. Legans maybe a great candidate (for example). Big jump for Theo since he hasn't HC before. But I agree that I would love to see what you suggest.
Jeff82
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Civil Bear said:

Jeff82 said:

socaltownie said:

Econ141 said:

Great write up of your thoughts. I would add Sean Lampley to your list for graduating as the all-time scoring leader and helping us win that NIT championship
That is absolutely correct. Lampley and Jerome I put into this category of "Chicago guys Braun knew." I shoudn't have overlooked as you point out, Cal's all time scoring leaders.

One of the relatively unique things about Braun (and boy I would love to give him career advice) is that he had those roots which DID help Cal. But when you are 3 hours by plane and 2 time zones those relationships start to weaken. He would have, IMO, KILLED IT coaching at UofI or Michigan or Iowa or all the other places that require a pipeline to the windy city for talent.

But Ben is also a kid of hollywood/LA. He clearly loves California and the Bay Area. So good for him.
Braun actually had two pipelines, to Chicago and the Midwest, because he was from there, and to Israel, because he's a practicing Jew.

I agree he and Monty were the best coaches we've had since Newell. I give Monty higher marks because of his ability to take what I would call near-elite players, like Crabbe, and convince them to add aspects to their individual games, in the off season, to make them better. His players almost always improved during their time in the program, for that reason. When I refer to coaching players up, that's what I'm talking about, not what happens during the season. I suspect getting players to do that was part of Monty's blunt approach, which also sometimes turned kids off.

Braun was not as good at getting players to improve themselves, IMHO, which is why his best teams were the 96-97 team he largely inherited from Bozeman, which had very experienced players, and the NIT team, which had two upper classmen who followed Braun from Eastern Michigan.
I don't believe Braun had any players from EMU, but regardless, that team was not as good as the teams he had when his rockfish players were all upperclassmen. That early pipeline dried up when his top assistant (forget his name) landed an HC job.
Geno Carlisle and Thomas Kilgore, the starting backcourt in 97-98 and 98-99, came with Braun from Eastern Michigan.
CalLifer
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Jeff82 said:

Civil Bear said:

Jeff82 said:

socaltownie said:

Econ141 said:

Great write up of your thoughts. I would add Sean Lampley to your list for graduating as the all-time scoring leader and helping us win that NIT championship
That is absolutely correct. Lampley and Jerome I put into this category of "Chicago guys Braun knew." I shoudn't have overlooked as you point out, Cal's all time scoring leaders.

One of the relatively unique things about Braun (and boy I would love to give him career advice) is that he had those roots which DID help Cal. But when you are 3 hours by plane and 2 time zones those relationships start to weaken. He would have, IMO, KILLED IT coaching at UofI or Michigan or Iowa or all the other places that require a pipeline to the windy city for talent.

But Ben is also a kid of hollywood/LA. He clearly loves California and the Bay Area. So good for him.
Braun actually had two pipelines, to Chicago and the Midwest, because he was from there, and to Israel, because he's a practicing Jew.

I agree he and Monty were the best coaches we've had since Newell. I give Monty higher marks because of his ability to take what I would call near-elite players, like Crabbe, and convince them to add aspects to their individual games, in the off season, to make them better. His players almost always improved during their time in the program, for that reason. When I refer to coaching players up, that's what I'm talking about, not what happens during the season. I suspect getting players to do that was part of Monty's blunt approach, which also sometimes turned kids off.

Braun was not as good at getting players to improve themselves, IMHO, which is why his best teams were the 96-97 team he largely inherited from Bozeman, which had very experienced players, and the NIT team, which had two upper classmen who followed Braun from Eastern Michigan.
I don't believe Braun had any players from EMU, but regardless, that team was not as good as the teams he had when his rockfish players were all upperclassmen. That early pipeline dried up when his top assistant (forget his name) landed an HC job.
Geno Carlisle and Thomas Kilgore, the starting backcourt in 97-98 and 98-99, came with Braun from Eastern Michigan.
I believe Geno Carlisle came from Northwestern and Thomas Kilgore came from Central Michigan. I'm sure Braun knew of them through his Chicago connections, but they didn't come from EMU.
calumnus
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CalLifer said:

Jeff82 said:

Civil Bear said:

Jeff82 said:

socaltownie said:

Econ141 said:

Great write up of your thoughts. I would add Sean Lampley to your list for graduating as the all-time scoring leader and helping us win that NIT championship
That is absolutely correct. Lampley and Jerome I put into this category of "Chicago guys Braun knew." I shoudn't have overlooked as you point out, Cal's all time scoring leaders.

One of the relatively unique things about Braun (and boy I would love to give him career advice) is that he had those roots which DID help Cal. But when you are 3 hours by plane and 2 time zones those relationships start to weaken. He would have, IMO, KILLED IT coaching at UofI or Michigan or Iowa or all the other places that require a pipeline to the windy city for talent.

But Ben is also a kid of hollywood/LA. He clearly loves California and the Bay Area. So good for him.
Braun actually had two pipelines, to Chicago and the Midwest, because he was from there, and to Israel, because he's a practicing Jew.

I agree he and Monty were the best coaches we've had since Newell. I give Monty higher marks because of his ability to take what I would call near-elite players, like Crabbe, and convince them to add aspects to their individual games, in the off season, to make them better. His players almost always improved during their time in the program, for that reason. When I refer to coaching players up, that's what I'm talking about, not what happens during the season. I suspect getting players to do that was part of Monty's blunt approach, which also sometimes turned kids off.

Braun was not as good at getting players to improve themselves, IMHO, which is why his best teams were the 96-97 team he largely inherited from Bozeman, which had very experienced players, and the NIT team, which had two upper classmen who followed Braun from Eastern Michigan.
I don't believe Braun had any players from EMU, but regardless, that team was not as good as the teams he had when his rockfish players were all upperclassmen. That early pipeline dried up when his top assistant (forget his name) landed an HC job.
Geno Carlisle and Thomas Kilgore, the starting backcourt in 97-98 and 98-99, came with Braun from Eastern Michigan.
I believe Geno Carlisle came from Northwestern and Thomas Kilgore came from Central Michigan. I'm sure Braun knew of them through his Chicago connections, but they didn't come from EMU.


Yes, you beat me to it.
oskidunker
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Stormy4tre said:

Excellent post. I am a Black alum class of '70 and donated to athletic programs for years and had season tickets to both football and basketball. When Fox was hired, and Cal started playing night football games that ended close to midnight I gave up both sports and stopped contributing. Paraphrasing your post since I disagree with your candidate, Cal needs a coach who is "hip" and has sufficient name recognition to attract local talent. I agree that recruiting locally is critical. The past reasons Cal failed in my opinion were twofold. First was arrogance. We thought we were better than we were, both as a program and as a destination. The reality is that talented kids have options. Why attend a school with lousy racial diversity and merely adequate facilities? Remember that Bozeman was not local but he brought his swagger with him. That enabled him to attract both local, Lamond Murray and Kidd along with Yogi. If he had more integrity we all might have prospered. Same for Martin.
Secondly we keep hiring coaches who are neither familiar with the area or with Cal athletics. Forget the national search and focus on applicants who can succeed at Cal. We don't need another 50 year old retread. We need to take a risk on a dynamic younger coach. because we cannot afford an established coach. Gates would have been the perfect hire. He loved Cal and he was dynamic. Sadly that ship has sailed. There are several Cal alums who possess the energy and knowledge of Cal to do the job. My suggestion is we look at the Cal alum pool first instead of what has happened repeatedly in the past, and ignore our own.
Also class of 1970. Did you attend the revised graduation years later? I did not. Maybe I should have.
Go Bears!
Stormy4tre
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I did not and also regret it. I still recall the box lunches they gave us in lieu of graduating. By the way can you explain the following paradox. We constantly point out how difficult it is to get athletes into Cal, brag about how smart they are, are thrilled with their athletic success, but somehow we cannot hire our own? Is it because they are not smart enough? MIssouri hires a Cal guy. Stanford hires a Cal guy. Rivera is a head coach. We have numerous successful basketball players and football players. and not one has been hired by Cal? I don't know if Leggans is the answer but the current path has destroyed the fan base and dried up the financial support.
oskidunker
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Stormy4tre said:

I did not and also regret it. I still recall the box lunches they gave us in lieu of graduating. By the way can you explain the following paradox. We constantly point out how difficult it is to get athletes into Cal, brag about how smart they are, are thrilled with their athletic success, but somehow we cannot hire our own? Is it because they are not smart enough? MIssouri hires a Cal guy. Stanford hires a Cal guy. Rivera is a head coach. We have numerous successful basketball players and football players. and not one has been hired by Cal? I don't know if Leggans is the answer but the current path has destroyed the fan base and dried up the financial support.
It is puzzling. It is certainly worth a try.especially with all the qualified alums around.
Go Bears!
Jeff82
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calumnus said:

CalLifer said:

Jeff82 said:

Civil Bear said:

Jeff82 said:

socaltownie said:

Econ141 said:

Great write up of your thoughts. I would add Sean Lampley to your list for graduating as the all-time scoring leader and helping us win that NIT championship
That is absolutely correct. Lampley and Jerome I put into this category of "Chicago guys Braun knew." I shoudn't have overlooked as you point out, Cal's all time scoring leaders.

One of the relatively unique things about Braun (and boy I would love to give him career advice) is that he had those roots which DID help Cal. But when you are 3 hours by plane and 2 time zones those relationships start to weaken. He would have, IMO, KILLED IT coaching at UofI or Michigan or Iowa or all the other places that require a pipeline to the windy city for talent.

But Ben is also a kid of hollywood/LA. He clearly loves California and the Bay Area. So good for him.
Braun actually had two pipelines, to Chicago and the Midwest, because he was from there, and to Israel, because he's a practicing Jew.

I agree he and Monty were the best coaches we've had since Newell. I give Monty higher marks because of his ability to take what I would call near-elite players, like Crabbe, and convince them to add aspects to their individual games, in the off season, to make them better. His players almost always improved during their time in the program, for that reason. When I refer to coaching players up, that's what I'm talking about, not what happens during the season. I suspect getting players to do that was part of Monty's blunt approach, which also sometimes turned kids off.

Braun was not as good at getting players to improve themselves, IMHO, which is why his best teams were the 96-97 team he largely inherited from Bozeman, which had very experienced players, and the NIT team, which had two upper classmen who followed Braun from Eastern Michigan.
I don't believe Braun had any players from EMU, but regardless, that team was not as good as the teams he had when his rockfish players were all upperclassmen. That early pipeline dried up when his top assistant (forget his name) landed an HC job.
Geno Carlisle and Thomas Kilgore, the starting backcourt in 97-98 and 98-99, came with Braun from Eastern Michigan.
I believe Geno Carlisle came from Northwestern and Thomas Kilgore came from Central Michigan. I'm sure Braun knew of them through his Chicago connections, but they didn't come from EMU.


Yes, you beat me to it.
That's what I get for not looking it up all the way. I stand corrected.
BeachedBear
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Stormy4tre said:

I did not and also regret it. I still recall the box lunches they gave us in lieu of graduating. By the way can you explain the following paradox. We constantly point out how difficult it is to get athletes into Cal, brag about how smart they are, are thrilled with their athletic success, but somehow we cannot hire our own? Is it because they are not smart enough? MIssouri hires a Cal guy. Stanford hires a Cal guy. Rivera is a head coach. We have numerous successful basketball players and football players. and not one has been hired by Cal? I don't know if Leggans is the answer but the current path has destroyed the fan base and dried up the financial support.
I mean, I wouldn't turn down Nate Oats for Monty Buckley, but. If we're in the position of a stretch hire, why not? At least get some discussions/interviews going. I hear Randy Duck does lots of youth basketball development, but I have no idea if he's coaching. I want to know what Leon Powe is up to. Aynide Ubaka, Richard Midgley, Anwar McQueen - I thought all of them were getting into coaching. Didn't Donte Smith become an assistant after college? Hello! Theo!

Shantay Legans - HAS to be a big step up from Fox or Jones - so I'm OK with that.

But I want the hiring process to find the best possible candidate Cal can get and then provide them support. The criteria that BG posted elsewhere seems very solid and I'm supportive of any candidate who checks off lots of boxes. If they are a Cal alum and otherwise NOT me (being an old white guy) - even better!!
calumnus
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stu said:

BeachedBear said:

...
The Head Coach doesn't need to do all wrt recruiting. But ABSOLUTELY needs to be able to put together a staff to fill the gaps and change if needed. That was a real frustration with Fox and even Cuonzo (maybe Jones, too - but I can't even recall who was on his staff).
...
The HC can't do all the recruiting but will have to decide who to offer then close the deal.


In football, players spend more time with their position coaches, and the position coach largely decides who starts, but in basketball, it is the head coach that runs the show. Having an assistant coach you get along with is little comfort if you don't get along with the head coach and you are riding the bench. Moreover, the impact of the head coach showing up for your game, having dinner with your parents, is huge. The head coach needs to be actively involved and win the living room. Especially at an academic school like Cal.

Cal needs to lock down the East Bay, be a player in SoCal (especially LA), take advantage of our international academic reputation in Europe, Africa, Australia and Asia.

However, the way we really become nationally relevant is not running from, but really embracing, our brand for social activism. Anybody who thinks Jaylen Brown was/is the only African American basketball player who supported Black Lives Matter and wants to make a difference (sure, while also making $millions in the NBA) is very mistaken. This has been a missed opportunity at Cal for decades but is important to the current generation. That was probably the best aspect of Cuonzo Martin's job at Cal. He really researched and embraced and then sold our history well. On a similar note, Bozeman did a masterful job selling Shareef on Cal's excellence in Islamic studies.

Braun loves Berkeley and sold Cal well. Most don't know, but he was an African American Studies major in college. I do think Pasternak, who is Jewish from New Orleans, would do a good job. His statements in support of Black Lives Matter over the years are unequivocal. Much better than Fox or Knowlton who were more cringe inducing,

stu
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calumnus said:

...
Braun loves Berkeley and sold Cal well. Most don't know, but he was an African American Studies major in college. I do think Pasternak, who is Jewish from New Orleans, would do a good job. His statements in support of Black Lives Matter over the years are unequivocal. Much better than Fox or Knowlton who were more cringe inducing,
Pretty much everything about Fox and Knowlton induces me to cringe.
bearister
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Random thoughts:

"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than to be selfish and worry about my liver." Jack Handey
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6956bear
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bearister said:

Random thoughts:

"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than to be selfish and worry about my liver." Jack Handey
Thanks for helping me with a new reason to give my wife for my various beer drinking excursions. Who knew that being a beer drinker was such an unselfish act.
bearister
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6956bear said:

bearister said:

Random thoughts:

"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than to be selfish and worry about my liver." Jack Handey
Thanks for helping me with a new reason to give my wife for my various beer drinking excursions. Who knew that being a beer drinker was such an unselfish act.

More random thoughts:

"To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dad." Jack Handey
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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