calumnus said:calfanz said:NEWSFLASHbearchamp said:
NEWSFLASH. Some black players do not want to play for a white coach.
Some Black players prefer to play for white coaches.
And for those with that preference, they have over 300 to choose from. 91% of D1 coaches.
It is just a missed opportunity. Jaylen Brown advocating for the benefits of Cal hiring an African American coach is something people should not dismiss. He is speaking from personal experience. It is how Cal can land McDonald's All Americans like himself all the way from Georgia. Elite players recruited by all the top programs.
It is just Cal not being as great as it could be.
This.
Mark Madsen
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Last: 1 yr ago by BigDaddy
There are only so many P5 scholarships available for programs with Black HCs (less than 10% of P5 HCs), so for those recruits who have that preference, the pickings are slim and they limit their own options.
I want to be clear. I don't think that skin is as much of an issue as respecting the insights of Brown (and non athletes) that a campus with 2.5% african american student body is a challenging place for an AA male. It is also juxaposed by Cal's location IMMEDIATELY adjancent to Oakland - one of the most important West coast cities for the AA community.Pittstop said:
There are only so many P5 scholarships available for programs with Black HCs (less than 10% of P5 HCs), so for those recruits who have that preference, the pickings are slim and they limit their own options.
THe key is thinking hard about that and working those challenges and advantages. Forging relationships WITH youth and AAU coaches in Oakland - the majority which are black. Being able to relate and work hard to support AA student athletes who face that challenge of lack of diversity on Campus.
Can a white coach do that? Of Course. Can an AA coach fail at it? Of course. But all other things being equal race does matter in helping create understanding and affinity and relationships.
DavisBear said:
Are there any prayers he can bring with him from Utah Valley?
FIFY
I thought the point is, all things being equal, in this case with AAR, Stan Johnson, Madsen, you have not a ton of HC experience, some metrics of success but not a rocketship/slam dunk hire, limited NIL experience, and deep mid-majorish competition being your 'proving' ground. And time and time again, NCAA schools look at coaches with similar resumes, and choose the white guy. Madsen might be fine, might be great. But I think AAR has similar or higher upside, with a similar resume, and the attention and interest of some of your key NBA alums, with potential NIL investment attached. Framing it as players limit THEIR options by preferring an AA head coach proves the point that Cal had an opportunity to gets looks from recruits they might not otherwise.Pittstop said:
There are only so many P5 scholarships available for programs with Black HCs (less than 10% of P5 HCs), so for those recruits who have that preference, the pickings are slim and they limit their own options.
The fun thing about hiring Madsen is that we get to see him (and Utah Valley) in action this week and get a preview of what we may expect in Berkeley. Also, they beat Oregon in Eugene this season, whereas we lost both games by a combined 62 points.
Ideally that was the point. But the actual statement of the referenced post was "There are some [black] recruits who don't want to play for a white coach." Pretty absolute. No reference to "all things being equal".
Having Jaylen Brown is great, but he plus the rest of the talent haul from that period won nothing in March.socaltownie said:calumnus said:And for those with that preference, they have over 300 to choose from. 91% of D1 coaches.calfanz said:NEWSFLASHbearchamp said:
NEWSFLASH. Some black players do not want to play for a white coach.
Some Black players prefer to play for white coaches.
It is just a missed opportunity. Jaylen Brown advocating for the benefits of Cal hiring an African American coach is something people should not dismiss. He is speaking from personal experience. It is how Cal can land McDonald's All Americans like himself all the way from Georgia. Elite players recruited by all the top programs.
It is just Cal not being as great as it could be.
This.
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Pittstop said:
Ideally that was the point. But the actual statement of the referenced post was "There are some [black] recruits who don't want to play for a white coach." Pretty absolute. No reference to "all things being equal".
Yes, a more accurate statement would have been: "All things being equal, there are African American players who would prefer playing for an African American coach. Given the lack of representation in the coaching ranks given the vast number of ex-players, they would like to see more African Americans get an opportunity and would support that. Currently the other 11 coaches in the PAC-12 are white, so Cal has an opportunity to distinguish itself by hiring an African American coach."
Strykur said:Having Jaylen Brown is great, but he plus the rest of the talent haul from that period won nothing in March.socaltownie said:calumnus said:And for those with that preference, they have over 300 to choose from. 91% of D1 coaches.calfanz said:NEWSFLASHbearchamp said:
NEWSFLASH. Some black players do not want to play for a white coach.
Some Black players prefer to play for white coaches.
It is just a missed opportunity. Jaylen Brown advocating for the benefits of Cal hiring an African American coach is something people should not dismiss. He is speaking from personal experience. It is how Cal can land McDonald's All Americans like himself all the way from Georgia. Elite players recruited by all the top programs.
It is just Cal not being as great as it could be.
This.
Since Newell, the only two Cal teams to finished ranked in the AP poll are:
Bozeman's 1993-94 team (#16)
Cuonzo's 2015-16 team (#23)
No Campanelli team ever finished ranked. No Braun team ever finished ranked. No Montgomery Cal team ever finished ranked.
Thus, even putting aside all the circumstances for that team underperforming in March, Brown's argument has merit.
Charmin Smith is a good person, but keeps finishing at the bottom of the league. I like having a black female head coach for women's basketball, but could we please find another such person who can actually win.
calumnus said:Strykur said:Having Jaylen Brown is great, but he plus the rest of the talent haul from that period won nothing in March.socaltownie said:calumnus said:And for those with that preference, they have over 300 to choose from. 91% of D1 coaches.calfanz said:NEWSFLASHbearchamp said:
NEWSFLASH. Some black players do not want to play for a white coach.
Some Black players prefer to play for white coaches.
It is just a missed opportunity. Jaylen Brown advocating for the benefits of Cal hiring an African American coach is something people should not dismiss. He is speaking from personal experience. It is how Cal can land McDonald's All Americans like himself all the way from Georgia. Elite players recruited by all the top programs.
It is just Cal not being as great as it could be.
This.
Since Newell, the only two Cal teams to finished ranked in the AP poll are:
Bozeman's 1993-94 team (#16)
Cuonzo's 2015-16 team (#23)
No Campanelli team ever finished ranked. No Braun team ever finished ranked. No Montgomery Cal team ever finished ranked.
Thus, even putting aside all the circumstances for that team underperforming in March, Brown's argument has merit.
Wow that's crazy - not even the 1997 sweet sixteen team huh?
Econ141 said:calumnus said:Strykur said:Having Jaylen Brown is great, but he plus the rest of the talent haul from that period won nothing in March.socaltownie said:calumnus said:And for those with that preference, they have over 300 to choose from. 91% of D1 coaches.calfanz said:NEWSFLASHbearchamp said:
NEWSFLASH. Some black players do not want to play for a white coach.
Some Black players prefer to play for white coaches.
It is just a missed opportunity. Jaylen Brown advocating for the benefits of Cal hiring an African American coach is something people should not dismiss. He is speaking from personal experience. It is how Cal can land McDonald's All Americans like himself all the way from Georgia. Elite players recruited by all the top programs.
It is just Cal not being as great as it could be.
This.
Since Newell, the only two Cal teams to finished ranked in the AP poll are:
Bozeman's 1993-94 team (#16)
Cuonzo's 2015-16 team (#23)
No Campanelli team ever finished ranked. No Braun team ever finished ranked. No Montgomery Cal team ever finished ranked.
Thus, even putting aside all the circumstances for that team underperforming in March, Brown's argument has merit.
Wow that's crazy - not even the 1997 sweet sixteen team huh?
Weren't we a 5 seed that year? A 5 seed who makes the sweet 16 should've ended the year ranked
Edit: cal was not ranked in the final AP poll (taken before the tourney). But was ranked #18 in final coaches poll (taken after tourneament)
you lost me on your first point ... so didn't read the rest. sorryducky23 said:
I'm having a hard time understanding why so many people think Madsen is a clear downgrade from Pasternak.
Here are some of the takes I've seen that I respectfully disagree with.
- "He's a Stanford guy": Casey Jacobsen is a stanford guy. Tiger Woods is a stanford guy. John Elway is a stanford guy. Madsen is actually a decent human being who happened to go to Stanford (and yes, there aren't a lot of those). I'd argue he's actually much more of a Cal guy than a Stanford guy. I think any fears that he won't "get" Cal or won't fit in at Berkeley are unfounded.
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Not sure about some of Cal's other best teams but Braun's '96-97 team finished 18th in the coaches poll. Hard to discount it just because it's not AP.calumnus said:Strykur said:Having Jaylen Brown is great, but he plus the rest of the talent haul from that period won nothing in March.socaltownie said:calumnus said:And for those with that preference, they have over 300 to choose from. 91% of D1 coaches.calfanz said:NEWSFLASHbearchamp said:
NEWSFLASH. Some black players do not want to play for a white coach.
Some Black players prefer to play for white coaches.
It is just a missed opportunity. Jaylen Brown advocating for the benefits of Cal hiring an African American coach is something people should not dismiss. He is speaking from personal experience. It is how Cal can land McDonald's All Americans like himself all the way from Georgia. Elite players recruited by all the top programs.
It is just Cal not being as great as it could be.
This.
Since Newell, the only two Cal teams to finished ranked in the AP poll are:
Bozeman's 1993-94 team (#16)
Cuonzo's 2015-16 team (#23)
No Campanelli team ever finished ranked. No Braun team ever finished ranked. No Montgomery Cal team ever finished ranked.
Thus, even putting aside all the circumstances for that team underperforming in March, Brown's argument has merit.
I'd say that was the most complete season since the Jason Kidd Sweet 16 season with Bozeman.MoragaBear said:Not sure about some of Cal's other best teams but Braun's '96-97 team finished 18th in the coaches poll. Hard to discount it just because it's not AP.calumnus said:Strykur said:Having Jaylen Brown is great, but he plus the rest of the talent haul from that period won nothing in March.socaltownie said:calumnus said:And for those with that preference, they have over 300 to choose from. 91% of D1 coaches.calfanz said:NEWSFLASHbearchamp said:
NEWSFLASH. Some black players do not want to play for a white coach.
Some Black players prefer to play for white coaches.
It is just a missed opportunity. Jaylen Brown advocating for the benefits of Cal hiring an African American coach is something people should not dismiss. He is speaking from personal experience. It is how Cal can land McDonald's All Americans like himself all the way from Georgia. Elite players recruited by all the top programs.
It is just Cal not being as great as it could be.
This.
Since Newell, the only two Cal teams to finished ranked in the AP poll are:
Bozeman's 1993-94 team (#16)
Cuonzo's 2015-16 team (#23)
No Campanelli team ever finished ranked. No Braun team ever finished ranked. No Montgomery Cal team ever finished ranked.
Thus, even putting aside all the circumstances for that team underperforming in March, Brown's argument has merit.
Right after that is the NIT championship season with Braun.
Then maybe the Pac-10(?) title season with Monty. We still didn't win the tournament, but we did win a first round game.
Cuonzo's Jaylen Brown year was a great regular season (esp undefeated at home), but the first round loss to Hawaii really hurt the status of the season (although there were mitigating factors the week of the first round game with Bird and Wallace going down and the whole Yanni harassment allegation in the news).
Meanwhile - a nice puff profile of Madsen
From Deseret News (via MSN)
From Deseret News (via MSN)
As a Pac-12 guy, Klay Thompson has been curious about the Cal men's hoops search for a few weeks now. We both came up with candidates back then and neither of us said Mark Madsen. But last night Klay gave a huge thumbs up for Madsen at Cal.
— Tim Kawakami (@timkawakami) March 29, 2023
There are some legit racists on this board.
He's not AA??? Who cares, first off. And when did that become a requirement???
Also who cares what his faith is? That's his personal life and business, not YOURS.
Pretty repulsive takes imo. You are probably the same people who demand to know why Andrew Wiggins is taking time off from the Warriors due to personal reasons. It's none of your damn business!
He's not AA??? Who cares, first off. And when did that become a requirement???
Also who cares what his faith is? That's his personal life and business, not YOURS.
Pretty repulsive takes imo. You are probably the same people who demand to know why Andrew Wiggins is taking time off from the Warriors due to personal reasons. It's none of your damn business!
Welcome Coach Madsen. Any chance he brings center Aziz Bandaogo with him? Transfer portal activated!
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
Agree, Huge problem over the years for Mike Krzyzewski, Tom Izzo, John Calipari, Jay Wright, Mark Few, Tony Bennett, Scott Drew, Eric Musselman, Jim Laranagga and Bill Self.bearchamp said:
NEWSFLASH. Some black players do not want to play for a white coach.
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
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