Random Comments from St. Thomas game

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RedlessWardrobe
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These are all opinions. Feel free to agree or challenge them.

Every year at the beginning of the season I'm reminded that unlike the NBA, college hoops with a closer 3 point distance, gives teams with less athleticism but good shooters a better chance to defeat a team of better physical stature. That was certainly on display last night. Those St. Thomas guys can shoot.

Grant Newell looked really impressive. It might be because the team as a whole looks more cohesive on offense. Is this a Madsen/Fox result? Not sure because its only one game. Hopefully Grant's injury is not too serious. Late in the second half he was back on the floor during the huddles. Lets hope he's back ASAP.

Jalen Celestine appears to be an excellent college basketball player. What I notice the most about him is that he is able to play under control and still have deceptive quickness. Kind of similiar to UCLA/now pro Kyle Anderson. He doesn't look like he's moving that fast, but in the end he's always moving FAST ENOUGH. Nice too root for a guy that misses an entire year with an injury and doesn't end up transferring.

On the St. Thomas possession under 20 seconds to go, I was really impressed how when the ball went to the corner, the Bears reacted so quickly by trapping the ball recipient into an impossible situation - regardless of the fact that the game was on the line. Again, is this a Madsen vs. Fox issue? In any case it was great to see.

Finally, I know having replay is better than not having it, but some times it feels like BS. And the announcer and Ben were commenting on how the refs were considering accesing a foul on JC near the end, but I thought the only thing they can do is reverse an out of bounds decision, not decide to call a foul that was never called in the first place. If the foul before the timeout question was really an issue wouldn't it be irrelevant because the ref never even called a foul to begin with. Somebody help me with that, but I ask that if you do you're certain of the current rules.

All in all, at the very least I think the Bears will be watchable, as opposed to last year when it was really a struggle to make it through the season. Go Bears!





ducky23
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I know in the NBA, you can review a play to see if a flagrant has been committed, even if a foul was not called on the floor. I assume that's what happened here.
PtownBear1
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RedlessWardrobe said:

Jalen Celestine appears to be an excellent college basketball player. What I notice the most about him is that he is able to play under control and still have deceptive quickness. Kind of similiar to UCLA/now pro Kyle Anderson. He doesn't look like he's moving that fast, but in the end he's always moving FAST ENOUGH. Nice too root for a guy that misses an entire year with an injury and doesn't end up transferring.

I think it was a blessing in disguise that Celestine was injured all last season. Had he played, Fox may have won a few more games which may have been enough for him to keep his job given how low coaching standards have been at Cal under Knowlton.
CALiforniALUM
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Well stated and observed OP. Good insights.
BC Calfan
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Was at the game last night. A couple comments:

Haas: Attendance not great, same as last year. Courtside student section was pretty full which was good. The high altitude camera platform is still there but 2 rows of chairbacks have been removed a couple rows below it. Could this be where the new platform will be?

Askew: He is slow. The ball stuck to him a lot last night. Walking the ball up the court to start the possession, dribbling away from the basket on half-court sets, no urgency with ball movement. Was hoping to see him operate with some freedom and pace and we didn't see that at all last night. He's the closest thing to a true PG on the team so I hope he starts pushing tempo better. Also, he finishes looked bad last night, very little lift or touch. Not sure if that can be fixed or addressed.

Vladimir on the other hand was exciting. Really sticks his nose into every play. No fear. Multiple times he deflected the ball while guarding his man. Appears to have good instincts.

Still too early for a Rodney Brown assessment. He looked comfortable out there I guess but just wasn't able to show much. His one open 3 wasn't very close.
Oakbear
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not to beat up on MF (well maybe a little), but no way with him still in charge do we win this, even with the new players not sure he would have gotten the win

as noted, this team will be more fun to watch

I wonder we had two big guys play a total of 29 minutes and they didn't get one rebound, AF played 30 minutes and got 11 I know the ball bounces funny sometimes, but this seems really off
bearchamp
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Askew has talent, but no game vision. Vlad is waaay ahead on vision. Vlad is the best point on offense. His defense is high risk high reward going for steals, but he looks to help better than anyone else last night.
sluggo
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BC Calfan said:

Was at the game last night. A couple comments:

Haas: Attendance not great, same as last year. Courtside student section was pretty full which was good. The high altitude camera platform is still there but 2 rows of chairbacks have been removed a couple rows below it. Could this be where the new platform will be?

Askew: He is slow. The ball stuck to him a lot last night. Walking the ball up the court to start the possession, dribbling away from the basket on half-court sets, no urgency with ball movement. Was hoping to see him operate with some freedom and pace and we didn't see that at all last night. He's the closest thing to a true PG on the team so I hope he starts pushing tempo better. Also, he finishes looked bad last night, very little lift or touch. Not sure if that can be fixed or addressed.

Vladimir on the other hand was exciting. Really sticks his nose into every play. No fear. Multiple times he deflected the ball while guarding his man. Appears to have good instincts.

Still too early for a Rodney Brown assessment. He looked comfortable out there I guess but just wasn't able to show much. His one open 3 wasn't very close.
I was going to make similar comments.

Askew peaked in high school. It happens. I hope Kennedy takes his minutes with Cone running the point. The way Madsen plays they don't need a classical point guard anyway.

Vladimir is such an interesting player. Has some Jorge in him defensively. Good anticipation. Will beat people off the dribble with his power. I also enjoy that if you saw him at the airport that you would never imagine he is a baller. But his outside shot right now is a prayer and he is not tall, certainly not 6'3''.

I thought Brown looked nervous. I am convinced he can play.

If you took Aimaq and Okafor and combined their best qualities, you would have an all-american. Separately, it is more complicated. I wonder if Aimaq is still injured, he has no lift, but such a sweet shot.

Finally, I noticed Cone hit his shot when his feet were set, but missed when he was in motion. He jumps so well it seems like he could choose easier shots.

Lots of possibilities with this team with (hopefully) two more strong players added. I do think defense will be a challenge.

RedlessWardrobe
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Vlad looked good on both ends of the court. A couple of times on defense he came off his man with a sense of creating a turnover in which the player he was guarding was not in a position to do damage anyway. Looks like he has very good insticts. As noted, his outside shot release looked strange. Still, small sample size but I'm sure some of you have seen film on him and probably know his ability. Maybe you could clue us in.

And just my opinion, compared to other freshmen that I have seen in their first game, I didn't think Brown looked nervous at all. He seemed to be playing loose.
KoreAmBear
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RedlessWardrobe said:

Vlad looked good on both ends of the court. A couple of times on defense he came off his man with a sense of creating a turnover in which the player he was guarding was not in a position to do damage anyway. Looks like he has very good insticts. As noted, his outside shot release looked strange. Still, small sample size but I'm sure some of you have seen film on him and probably know his ability. Maybe you could clue us in.

And just my opinion, compared to other freshmen that I have seen in their first game, I didn't think Brown looked nervous at all. He seemed to be playing loose.
Yah Brown seems kind of cocky, in a good way. But he looks real raw -- based on that 3 point shot, he got a pass on the wing he could have just finished but he dribbled it so it got stolen, and he traveled not knowing where he was going. I like the length and he has time to develop. We don't need to rush people into starting roles like we had to under Wyking and Fox.
BearlyCareAnymore
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RedlessWardrobe said:

These are all opinions. Feel free to agree or challenge them.

Every year at the beginning of the season I'm reminded that unlike the NBA, college hoops with a closer 3 point distance, gives teams with less athleticism but good shooters a better chance to defeat a team of better physical stature. That was certainly on display last night. Those St. Thomas guys can shoot.

Grant Newell looked really impressive. It might be because the team as a whole looks more cohesive on offense. Is this a Madsen/Fox result? Not sure because its only one game. Hopefully Grant's injury is not too serious. Late in the second half he was back on the floor during the huddles. Lets hope he's back ASAP.

Jalen Celestine appears to be an excellent college basketball player. What I notice the most about him is that he is able to play under control and still have deceptive quickness. Kind of similiar to UCLA/now pro Kyle Anderson. He doesn't look like he's moving that fast, but in the end he's always moving FAST ENOUGH. Nice too root for a guy that misses an entire year with an injury and doesn't end up transferring.

On the St. Thomas possession under 20 seconds to go, I was really impressed how when the ball went to the corner, the Bears reacted so quickly by trapping the ball recipient into an impossible situation - regardless of the fact that the game was on the line. Again, is this a Madsen vs. Fox issue? In any case it was great to see.

Finally, I know having replay is better than not having it, but some times it feels like BS. And the announcer and Ben were commenting on how the refs were considering accesing a foul on JC near the end, but I thought the only thing they can do is reverse an out of bounds decision, not decide to call a foul that was never called in the first place. If the foul before the timeout question was really an issue wouldn't it be irrelevant because the ref never even called a foul to begin with. Somebody help me with that, but I ask that if you do you're certain of the current rules.

All in all, at the very least I think the Bears will be watchable, as opposed to last year when it was really a struggle to make it through the season. Go Bears!






I have been checked out of college basketball for a couple years (I wonder why). The replay thing was ridiculous, They have way too much leeway to review things. I assume things have changed in the last couple years. Use of replay in basketball should be very limited. At some point people need to suck it up and understand that officials are human and there will be mistakes made during the game. It is one thing for baseball that is slow by nature and there are calls that are really conducive to replay. Another thing for football where play is stop and start. This is not good for continuous play sports. Toes on lines and clock. That's all they should review.
stu
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I'll add flagrant fouls. They don't come up often and calling them wrong either way causes problems.
BC Calfan
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100%. Typical Pac12 ref ineptitude. Trigger happy on the reviews which disrupts game flow and made the game 15 min longer. I swear they reviewed the Thommie getting poked because he was flopping on the floor. Then on Celestine's clear out at the end, which was a bs call, just stick by your call, why are you reviewing it?

Every Pac 12 game the refs will do something or make a call you rarely see. They can't help not making themselves a part of the game. Can't wait for ACC refs. My only fear is they don't fly out for our home games and we're left with the same clowns on a contract basis.
ducky23
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sluggo said:

BC Calfan said:

Was at the game last night. A couple comments:

Haas: Attendance not great, same as last year. Courtside student section was pretty full which was good. The high altitude camera platform is still there but 2 rows of chairbacks have been removed a couple rows below it. Could this be where the new platform will be?

Askew: He is slow. The ball stuck to him a lot last night. Walking the ball up the court to start the possession, dribbling away from the basket on half-court sets, no urgency with ball movement. Was hoping to see him operate with some freedom and pace and we didn't see that at all last night. He's the closest thing to a true PG on the team so I hope he starts pushing tempo better. Also, he finishes looked bad last night, very little lift or touch. Not sure if that can be fixed or addressed.

Vladimir on the other hand was exciting. Really sticks his nose into every play. No fear. Multiple times he deflected the ball while guarding his man. Appears to have good instincts.

Still too early for a Rodney Brown assessment. He looked comfortable out there I guess but just wasn't able to show much. His one open 3 wasn't very close.
I was going to make similar comments.

Askew peaked in high school. It happens. I hope Kennedy takes his minutes with Cone running the point. The way Madsen plays they don't need a classical point guard anyway.

Vladimir is such an interesting player. Has some Jorge in him defensively. Good anticipation. Will beat people off the dribble with his power. I also enjoy that if you saw him at the airport that you would never imagine he is a baller. But his outside shot right now is a prayer and he is not tall, certainly not 6'3''.

I thought Brown looked nervous. I am convinced he can play.

If you took Aimaq and Okafor and combined their best qualities, you would have an all-american. Separately, it is more complicated. I wonder if Aimaq is still injured, he has no lift, but such a sweet shot.

Finally, I noticed Cone hit his shot when his feet were set, but missed when he was in motion. He jumps so well it seems like he could choose easier shots.

Lots of possibilities with this team with (hopefully) two more strong players added. I do think defense will be a challenge.




I'm going to echo everyone's thoughts about Askew. There were a lot of things I liked about last nights game. But I have a lot of concerns about the PG position.

Askew is probably a decent player, but I'm not sure he's a great fit on this team. If this team is going to reach its ceiling, they are going to need to use their depth, athleticism and length at the wing to play high energy defense to get stops, rebound and then run. That's how this team, as constructed, is going to win.

With that sort of team, the ideal PG would be someone like prentice McGruder. Not necessarily a scorer but someone who could control the pace, pass and play defense. Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether he's getting instructions from madsen or he still has bad habits from Fox, but askew seems to want to play at a snails pace. We should be pushing at every possible opportunity. Im not sure askew has that in him (I'd love to be wrong about this, but I saw the same slow/methodical player last year as well)

Before last night, I was hoping Cone could possibly play PG. But he's clearly a shooting guard.

The player closest to the McGruder type is Pavlovic. As already noted, he's a pest on defense, he gets his hands on everything, he pushes pace and he's very good at driving and kicking/dishing. It's exactly what this team needs. Right now, askew is probably the better and more effective player. But I'm hoping that pavlovic can grow up quickly cause this team will have its best chance of reaching its ceiling with Pavlovic at point.
stu
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Good points. I was surprised to see Askew walking the ball up.
hoop97
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Great first win for a team that needs to learn how to win. I share the concerns on Askew. I don't see good decision maiking - hopefully that changes. Fardaws looked tired at the end - that should imporve. Really excited to see Tyson if the appeal is granted. His presence will make this a much different team. Very glad to hear Grant's injury not serious. He and Celestine looked much improved.
Big C
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ducky23 said:

sluggo said:

BC Calfan said:

Was at the game last night. A couple comments:

Haas: Attendance not great, same as last year. Courtside student section was pretty full which was good. The high altitude camera platform is still there but 2 rows of chairbacks have been removed a couple rows below it. Could this be where the new platform will be?

Askew: He is slow. The ball stuck to him a lot last night. Walking the ball up the court to start the possession, dribbling away from the basket on half-court sets, no urgency with ball movement. Was hoping to see him operate with some freedom and pace and we didn't see that at all last night. He's the closest thing to a true PG on the team so I hope he starts pushing tempo better. Also, he finishes looked bad last night, very little lift or touch. Not sure if that can be fixed or addressed.

Vladimir on the other hand was exciting. Really sticks his nose into every play. No fear. Multiple times he deflected the ball while guarding his man. Appears to have good instincts.

Still too early for a Rodney Brown assessment. He looked comfortable out there I guess but just wasn't able to show much. His one open 3 wasn't very close.
I was going to make similar comments.

Askew peaked in high school. It happens. I hope Kennedy takes his minutes with Cone running the point. The way Madsen plays they don't need a classical point guard anyway.

Vladimir is such an interesting player. Has some Jorge in him defensively. Good anticipation. Will beat people off the dribble with his power. I also enjoy that if you saw him at the airport that you would never imagine he is a baller. But his outside shot right now is a prayer and he is not tall, certainly not 6'3''.

I thought Brown looked nervous. I am convinced he can play.

If you took Aimaq and Okafor and combined their best qualities, you would have an all-american. Separately, it is more complicated. I wonder if Aimaq is still injured, he has no lift, but such a sweet shot.

Finally, I noticed Cone hit his shot when his feet were set, but missed when he was in motion. He jumps so well it seems like he could choose easier shots.

Lots of possibilities with this team with (hopefully) two more strong players added. I do think defense will be a challenge.




I'm going to echo everyone's thoughts about Askew. There were a lot of things I liked about last nights game. But I have a lot of concerns about the PG position.

Askew is probably a decent player, but I'm not sure he's a great fit on this team. If this team is going to reach its ceiling, they are going to need to use their depth, athleticism and length at the wing to play high energy defense to get stops, rebound and then run. That's how this team, as constructed, is going to win.

With that sort of team, the ideal PG would be someone like prentice McGruder. Not necessarily a scorer but someone who could control the pace, pass and play defense. Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether he's getting instructions from madsen or he still has bad habits from Fox, but askew seems to want to play at a snails pace. We should be pushing at every possible opportunity. Im not sure askew has that in him (I'd love to be wrong about this, but I saw the same slow/methodical player last year as well)

Before last night, I was hoping Cone could possibly play PG. But he's clearly a shooting guard.

The player closest to the McGruder type is Pavlovic. As already noted, he's a pest on defense, he gets his hands on everything, he pushes pace and he's very good at driving and kicking/dishing. It's exactly what this team needs. Right now, askew is probably the better and more effective player. But I'm hoping that pavlovic can grow up quickly cause this team will have its best chance of reaching its ceiling with Pavlovic at point.

The other cool thing about Pavlovic is that he looks like a Berkeley hippie straight outta the '60s! This guy plays on the road for us and opposing fans will be thinking how he embodies the Berkeley stereotype,,, and before they know what hit them, we've won the game!
prospeCt
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https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzWENkpq2aF/



sluggo
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ducky23 said:

sluggo said:

BC Calfan said:

Was at the game last night. A couple comments:

Haas: Attendance not great, same as last year. Courtside student section was pretty full which was good. The high altitude camera platform is still there but 2 rows of chairbacks have been removed a couple rows below it. Could this be where the new platform will be?

Askew: He is slow. The ball stuck to him a lot last night. Walking the ball up the court to start the possession, dribbling away from the basket on half-court sets, no urgency with ball movement. Was hoping to see him operate with some freedom and pace and we didn't see that at all last night. He's the closest thing to a true PG on the team so I hope he starts pushing tempo better. Also, he finishes looked bad last night, very little lift or touch. Not sure if that can be fixed or addressed.

Vladimir on the other hand was exciting. Really sticks his nose into every play. No fear. Multiple times he deflected the ball while guarding his man. Appears to have good instincts.

Still too early for a Rodney Brown assessment. He looked comfortable out there I guess but just wasn't able to show much. His one open 3 wasn't very close.
I was going to make similar comments.

Askew peaked in high school. It happens. I hope Kennedy takes his minutes with Cone running the point. The way Madsen plays they don't need a classical point guard anyway.

Vladimir is such an interesting player. Has some Jorge in him defensively. Good anticipation. Will beat people off the dribble with his power. I also enjoy that if you saw him at the airport that you would never imagine he is a baller. But his outside shot right now is a prayer and he is not tall, certainly not 6'3''.

I thought Brown looked nervous. I am convinced he can play.

If you took Aimaq and Okafor and combined their best qualities, you would have an all-american. Separately, it is more complicated. I wonder if Aimaq is still injured, he has no lift, but such a sweet shot.

Finally, I noticed Cone hit his shot when his feet were set, but missed when he was in motion. He jumps so well it seems like he could choose easier shots.

Lots of possibilities with this team with (hopefully) two more strong players added. I do think defense will be a challenge.




I'm going to echo everyone's thoughts about Askew. There were a lot of things I liked about last nights game. But I have a lot of concerns about the PG position.

Askew is probably a decent player, but I'm not sure he's a great fit on this team. If this team is going to reach its ceiling, they are going to need to use their depth, athleticism and length at the wing to play high energy defense to get stops, rebound and then run. That's how this team, as constructed, is going to win.

With that sort of team, the ideal PG would be someone like prentice McGruder. Not necessarily a scorer but someone who could control the pace, pass and play defense. Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether he's getting instructions from madsen or he still has bad habits from Fox, but askew seems to want to play at a snails pace. We should be pushing at every possible opportunity. Im not sure askew has that in him (I'd love to be wrong about this, but I saw the same slow/methodical player last year as well)

Before last night, I was hoping Cone could possibly play PG. But he's clearly a shooting guard.

The player closest to the McGruder type is Pavlovic. As already noted, he's a pest on defense, he gets his hands on everything, he pushes pace and he's very good at driving and kicking/dishing. It's exactly what this team needs. Right now, askew is probably the better and more effective player. But I'm hoping that pavlovic can grow up quickly cause this team will have its best chance of reaching its ceiling with Pavlovic at point.
Cone clearly likes to shoot. But he handles the ball fine, maybe well, and brought the ball up late in the game. I see him as the point in the strongest lineup. Pavlovic can't shoot, so I see him as a change-of-pace energy guy. Askew should play fewer minutes because, as you say, he is not the athletic point guard the team needs. And Rodney Brown can handle the ball, I hope he is evaluated for point minutes in the preseason.
MoragaBear
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Staff
From his commitment story from those who believe Pavlovic can't shoot from the perimeter. He's hopefully a work in progress rather than just not having that skill set.

While the strength of Pavlovic's game is his ability to score in the paint, his perimeter game is a work in progress, shooting a fairly respectable 31% from the perimeter.


"His jump shot's fine,"Goble said. "I would say that's probably the thing he needs to improve on the most. It's not bad. It's just not the highlight of his game at this stage. His pull-up game is very good. It's just a very European thing for somebody his size to get downhill into the paint and be able to pull up like that. So that's something that's got a lot of experience with. He's super, super athletic, finishes everything at the rim. And so as he continues to improve that jump shot, that's just going to really elevate him even more.

"What's interesting is he could hit the ground running and play minutes right away. Because of his experience. His IQ, his physicality - he's already got a grown man body. But the bare minimum that you're getting out of that kid is somebody that's literally going to come into practice, and try and take your minutes every day. So having somebody like that with his character, with his toughness, with his, 'Hey, I'm not backing down from anybody attitude,' It's just gonna make everybody else around him better."
KoreAmBear
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MoragaBear said:

From his commitment story from those who believe Pavlovic can't shoot from the perimeter. He's hopefully a work in progress rather than just not having that skill set.

While the strength of Pavlovic's game is his ability to score in the paint, his perimeter game is a work in progress, shooting a fairly respectable 31% from the perimeter.


"His jump shot's fine,"Goble said. "I would say that's probably the thing he needs to improve on the most. It's not bad. It's just not the highlight of his game at this stage. His pull-up game is very good. It's just a very European thing for somebody his size to get downhill into the paint and be able to pull up like that. So that's something that's got a lot of experience with. He's super, super athletic, finishes everything at the rim. And so as he continues to improve that jump shot, that's just going to really elevate him even more.

"What's interesting is he could hit the ground running and play minutes right away. Because of his experience. His IQ, his physicality - he's already got a grown man body. But the bare minimum that you're getting out of that kid is somebody that's literally going to come into practice, and try and take your minutes every day. So having somebody like that with his character, with his toughness, with his, 'Hey, I'm not backing down from anybody attitude,' It's just gonna make everybody else around him better."
Love it. He's gonna be a fan favorite.
stu
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Did Madsen find him like Montgomery found Jorge?
Big C
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KoreAmBear said:

MoragaBear said:

From his commitment story from those who believe Pavlovic can't shoot from the perimeter. He's hopefully a work in progress rather than just not having that skill set.

While the strength of Pavlovic's game is his ability to score in the paint, his perimeter game is a work in progress, shooting a fairly respectable 31% from the perimeter.


"His jump shot's fine,"Goble said. "I would say that's probably the thing he needs to improve on the most. It's not bad. It's just not the highlight of his game at this stage. His pull-up game is very good. It's just a very European thing for somebody his size to get downhill into the paint and be able to pull up like that. So that's something that's got a lot of experience with. He's super, super athletic, finishes everything at the rim. And so as he continues to improve that jump shot, that's just going to really elevate him even more.

"What's interesting is he could hit the ground running and play minutes right away. Because of his experience. His IQ, his physicality - he's already got a grown man body. But the bare minimum that you're getting out of that kid is somebody that's literally going to come into practice, and try and take your minutes every day. So having somebody like that with his character, with his toughness, with his, 'Hey, I'm not backing down from anybody attitude,' It's just gonna make everybody else around him better."
Love it. He's gonna be a fan favorite.

Yeah, those are great quotes! I also feel like, after seeing him on the court, we are going to become more attractive to the largely untapped hippie fanbase. Not to say that Vlad is or is not a hippie, but the hippies will see him and tune in, then end up staying for the show!
oskidunker
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Big C said:

KoreAmBear said:

MoragaBear said:

From his commitment story from those who believe Pavlovic can't shoot from the perimeter. He's hopefully a work in progress rather than just not having that skill set.

While the strength of Pavlovic's game is his ability to score in the paint, his perimeter game is a work in progress, shooting a fairly respectable 31% from the perimeter.


"His jump shot's fine,"Goble said. "I would say that's probably the thing he needs to improve on the most. It's not bad. It's just not the highlight of his game at this stage. His pull-up game is very good. It's just a very European thing for somebody his size to get downhill into the paint and be able to pull up like that. So that's something that's got a lot of experience with. He's super, super athletic, finishes everything at the rim. And so as he continues to improve that jump shot, that's just going to really elevate him even more.

"What's interesting is he could hit the ground running and play minutes right away. Because of his experience. His IQ, his physicality - he's already got a grown man body. But the bare minimum that you're getting out of that kid is somebody that's literally going to come into practice, and try and take your minutes every day. So having somebody like that with his character, with his toughness, with his, 'Hey, I'm not backing down from anybody attitude,' It's just gonna make everybody else around him better."
Love it. He's gonna be a fan favorite.

Yeah, those are great quotes! I also feel like, after seeing him on the court, we are going to become more attractive to the largely untapped hippie fanbase. Not to say that Vlad is or is not a hippie, but the hippies will see him and tune in, then end up staying for the show!


The hippies are in Ashland Oregon
Go Bears!
stu
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Not to mention Portland.
4thGenCal
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sluggo said:

ducky23 said:

sluggo said:

BC Calfan said:

Was at the game last night. A couple comments:

Haas: Attendance not great, same as last year. Courtside student section was pretty full which was good. The high altitude camera platform is still there but 2 rows of chairbacks have been removed a couple rows below it. Could this be where the new platform will be?

Askew: He is slow. The ball stuck to him a lot last night. Walking the ball up the court to start the possession, dribbling away from the basket on half-court sets, no urgency with ball movement. Was hoping to see him operate with some freedom and pace and we didn't see that at all last night. He's the closest thing to a true PG on the team so I hope he starts pushing tempo better. Also, he finishes looked bad last night, very little lift or touch. Not sure if that can be fixed or addressed.

Vladimir on the other hand was exciting. Really sticks his nose into every play. No fear. Multiple times he deflected the ball while guarding his man. Appears to have good instincts.

Still too early for a Rodney Brown assessment. He looked comfortable out there I guess but just wasn't able to show much. His one open 3 wasn't very close.
I was going to make similar comments.

Askew peaked in high school. It happens. I hope Kennedy takes his minutes with Cone running the point. The way Madsen plays they don't need a classical point guard anyway.

Vladimir is such an interesting player. Has some Jorge in him defensively. Good anticipation. Will beat people off the dribble with his power. I also enjoy that if you saw him at the airport that you would never imagine he is a baller. But his outside shot right now is a prayer and he is not tall, certainly not 6'3''.

I thought Brown looked nervous. I am convinced he can play.

If you took Aimaq and Okafor and combined their best qualities, you would have an all-american. Separately, it is more complicated. I wonder if Aimaq is still injured, he has no lift, but such a sweet shot.

Finally, I noticed Cone hit his shot when his feet were set, but missed when he was in motion. He jumps so well it seems like he could choose easier shots.

Lots of possibilities with this team with (hopefully) two more strong players added. I do think defense will be a challenge.




I'm going to echo everyone's thoughts about Askew. There were a lot of things I liked about last nights game. But I have a lot of concerns about the PG position.

Askew is probably a decent player, but I'm not sure he's a great fit on this team. If this team is going to reach its ceiling, they are going to need to use their depth, athleticism and length at the wing to play high energy defense to get stops, rebound and then run. That's how this team, as constructed, is going to win.

With that sort of team, the ideal PG would be someone like prentice McGruder. Not necessarily a scorer but someone who could control the pace, pass and play defense. Unfortunately, I'm not sure whether he's getting instructions from madsen or he still has bad habits from Fox, but askew seems to want to play at a snails pace. We should be pushing at every possible opportunity. Im not sure askew has that in him (I'd love to be wrong about this, but I saw the same slow/methodical player last year as well)

Before last night, I was hoping Cone could possibly play PG. But he's clearly a shooting guard.

The player closest to the McGruder type is Pavlovic. As already noted, he's a pest on defense, he gets his hands on everything, he pushes pace and he's very good at driving and kicking/dishing. It's exactly what this team needs. Right now, askew is probably the better and more effective player. But I'm hoping that pavlovic can grow up quickly cause this team will have its best chance of reaching its ceiling with Pavlovic at point.
Cone clearly likes to shoot. But he handles the ball fine, maybe well, and brought the ball up late in the game. I see him as the point in the strongest lineup. Pavlovic can't shoot, so I see him as a change-of-pace energy guy. Askew should play fewer minutes because, as you say, he is not the athletic point guard the team needs. And Rodney Brown can handle the ball, I hope he is evaluated for point minutes in the preseason.

Going to be interesting who plays point when the team is at full strength. I can say that Coach Madsen is very confident in Askew at the Point - because what He says is "an extremely high basketball IQ and the best passer on the team". Jay John also echoed that feeling as well after the game - saying the team needs Askew on the court because He makes the right decisions with the ball. Coach worked with Him continuely over the summer, showing him where he needs to improve and also to gain the mindset of being a facilatator, versus a score first mentality. Askew is tough and fearless with very good size for his position- flip side - He is not particularly athletic and can be emotional when He gets trash talked on the court. Last year was brutal for him (in addition to being injured for most of the season) because He was asked to do much more than He was capable of doing. Bottom line is that it is too early to say whether the team is better with him playing the majority of minutes at the point or not. But clearly He is going to play significant minutes for the team even when the team is at full strength.
Big C
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oskidunker said:

Big C said:

KoreAmBear said:

MoragaBear said:

From his commitment story from those who believe Pavlovic can't shoot from the perimeter. He's hopefully a work in progress rather than just not having that skill set.

While the strength of Pavlovic's game is his ability to score in the paint, his perimeter game is a work in progress, shooting a fairly respectable 31% from the perimeter.


"His jump shot's fine,"Goble said. "I would say that's probably the thing he needs to improve on the most. It's not bad. It's just not the highlight of his game at this stage. His pull-up game is very good. It's just a very European thing for somebody his size to get downhill into the paint and be able to pull up like that. So that's something that's got a lot of experience with. He's super, super athletic, finishes everything at the rim. And so as he continues to improve that jump shot, that's just going to really elevate him even more.

"What's interesting is he could hit the ground running and play minutes right away. Because of his experience. His IQ, his physicality - he's already got a grown man body. But the bare minimum that you're getting out of that kid is somebody that's literally going to come into practice, and try and take your minutes every day. So having somebody like that with his character, with his toughness, with his, 'Hey, I'm not backing down from anybody attitude,' It's just gonna make everybody else around him better."
Love it. He's gonna be a fan favorite.

Yeah, those are great quotes! I also feel like, after seeing him on the court, we are going to become more attractive to the largely untapped hippie fanbase. Not to say that Vlad is or is not a hippie, but the hippies will see him and tune in, then end up staying for the show!


The hippies are in Ashland Oregon

Gotta explain: That good-natured $C poster, Trojan Warrior, used to come on here and start with "Greetings, Hippies... ". Used to crack me up, so I throw the word around for laughs. If I'm the only one that laughs, well, so be it...
calumnus
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oskidunker said:

Big C said:

KoreAmBear said:

MoragaBear said:

From his commitment story from those who believe Pavlovic can't shoot from the perimeter. He's hopefully a work in progress rather than just not having that skill set.

While the strength of Pavlovic's game is his ability to score in the paint, his perimeter game is a work in progress, shooting a fairly respectable 31% from the perimeter.


"His jump shot's fine,"Goble said. "I would say that's probably the thing he needs to improve on the most. It's not bad. It's just not the highlight of his game at this stage. His pull-up game is very good. It's just a very European thing for somebody his size to get downhill into the paint and be able to pull up like that. So that's something that's got a lot of experience with. He's super, super athletic, finishes everything at the rim. And so as he continues to improve that jump shot, that's just going to really elevate him even more.

"What's interesting is he could hit the ground running and play minutes right away. Because of his experience. His IQ, his physicality - he's already got a grown man body. But the bare minimum that you're getting out of that kid is somebody that's literally going to come into practice, and try and take your minutes every day. So having somebody like that with his character, with his toughness, with his, 'Hey, I'm not backing down from anybody attitude,' It's just gonna make everybody else around him better."
Love it. He's gonna be a fan favorite.

Yeah, those are great quotes! I also feel like, after seeing him on the court, we are going to become more attractive to the largely untapped hippie fanbase. Not to say that Vlad is or is not a hippie, but the hippies will see him and tune in, then end up staying for the show!


The hippies are in Ashland Oregon


There are some in Berkeley still but they are in their 80s.
stu
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calumnus said:

oskidunker said:

Big C said:

KoreAmBear said:

MoragaBear said:

From his commitment story from those who believe Pavlovic can't shoot from the perimeter. He's hopefully a work in progress rather than just not having that skill set.

While the strength of Pavlovic's game is his ability to score in the paint, his perimeter game is a work in progress, shooting a fairly respectable 31% from the perimeter.


"His jump shot's fine,"Goble said. "I would say that's probably the thing he needs to improve on the most. It's not bad. It's just not the highlight of his game at this stage. His pull-up game is very good. It's just a very European thing for somebody his size to get downhill into the paint and be able to pull up like that. So that's something that's got a lot of experience with. He's super, super athletic, finishes everything at the rim. And so as he continues to improve that jump shot, that's just going to really elevate him even more.

"What's interesting is he could hit the ground running and play minutes right away. Because of his experience. His IQ, his physicality - he's already got a grown man body. But the bare minimum that you're getting out of that kid is somebody that's literally going to come into practice, and try and take your minutes every day. So having somebody like that with his character, with his toughness, with his, 'Hey, I'm not backing down from anybody attitude,' It's just gonna make everybody else around him better."
Love it. He's gonna be a fan favorite.

Yeah, those are great quotes! I also feel like, after seeing him on the court, we are going to become more attractive to the largely untapped hippie fanbase. Not to say that Vlad is or is not a hippie, but the hippies will see him and tune in, then end up staying for the show!


The hippies are in Ashland Oregon


There are some in Berkeley still but they are in their 80s.
Fake news! I'm still in my 70s.
calumnus
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stu said:

calumnus said:

oskidunker said:

Big C said:

KoreAmBear said:

MoragaBear said:

From his commitment story from those who believe Pavlovic can't shoot from the perimeter. He's hopefully a work in progress rather than just not having that skill set.

While the strength of Pavlovic's game is his ability to score in the paint, his perimeter game is a work in progress, shooting a fairly respectable 31% from the perimeter.


"His jump shot's fine,"Goble said. "I would say that's probably the thing he needs to improve on the most. It's not bad. It's just not the highlight of his game at this stage. His pull-up game is very good. It's just a very European thing for somebody his size to get downhill into the paint and be able to pull up like that. So that's something that's got a lot of experience with. He's super, super athletic, finishes everything at the rim. And so as he continues to improve that jump shot, that's just going to really elevate him even more.

"What's interesting is he could hit the ground running and play minutes right away. Because of his experience. His IQ, his physicality - he's already got a grown man body. But the bare minimum that you're getting out of that kid is somebody that's literally going to come into practice, and try and take your minutes every day. So having somebody like that with his character, with his toughness, with his, 'Hey, I'm not backing down from anybody attitude,' It's just gonna make everybody else around him better."
Love it. He's gonna be a fan favorite.

Yeah, those are great quotes! I also feel like, after seeing him on the court, we are going to become more attractive to the largely untapped hippie fanbase. Not to say that Vlad is or is not a hippie, but the hippies will see him and tune in, then end up staying for the show!


The hippies are in Ashland Oregon


There are some in Berkeley still but they are in their 80s.
Fake news! I'm still in my 70s.


There are probably a few years you cannot remember.
stu
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calumnus said:

stu said:

calumnus said:

oskidunker said:

Big C said:

KoreAmBear said:

MoragaBear said:

From his commitment story from those who believe Pavlovic can't shoot from the perimeter. He's hopefully a work in progress rather than just not having that skill set.

While the strength of Pavlovic's game is his ability to score in the paint, his perimeter game is a work in progress, shooting a fairly respectable 31% from the perimeter.


"His jump shot's fine,"Goble said. "I would say that's probably the thing he needs to improve on the most. It's not bad. It's just not the highlight of his game at this stage. His pull-up game is very good. It's just a very European thing for somebody his size to get downhill into the paint and be able to pull up like that. So that's something that's got a lot of experience with. He's super, super athletic, finishes everything at the rim. And so as he continues to improve that jump shot, that's just going to really elevate him even more.

"What's interesting is he could hit the ground running and play minutes right away. Because of his experience. His IQ, his physicality - he's already got a grown man body. But the bare minimum that you're getting out of that kid is somebody that's literally going to come into practice, and try and take your minutes every day. So having somebody like that with his character, with his toughness, with his, 'Hey, I'm not backing down from anybody attitude,' It's just gonna make everybody else around him better."
Love it. He's gonna be a fan favorite.

Yeah, those are great quotes! I also feel like, after seeing him on the court, we are going to become more attractive to the largely untapped hippie fanbase. Not to say that Vlad is or is not a hippie, but the hippies will see him and tune in, then end up staying for the show!


The hippies are in Ashland Oregon


There are some in Berkeley still but they are in their 80s.
Fake news! I'm still in my 70s.


There are probably a few years you cannot remember.
Good one!
Bear8995
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I share the concerns about Askew. Offense slows down when it is in Askew's hands. I still think he dribbles too much. This is a subtle thing but on the dribble hand off, he slows down (and almost stops) when the ball is coming to him while the others get it while moving fast.

I think Cone can easily play PG. He'd be my starter.

Tomorrow I expect the starting lineup to be Cone, Tyson, Newell, Celestine and Aimaq.

Askew would spell Cone. Pavlovic looks like he could play a little PG too. Love his intensity on D.
Bowser, Brown and Pavlovic spell Tyson, Newell and Celestine.
Okafor spells Aimaq.

I'd be interested to see a smaller, quicker lineup with Newell, Celestine, Tyson, Kennedy and a PG once Kennedy is back. That would be fun to watch.
stu
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A couple of years ago Celestine played a few minutes at PG and looked just fine.
SFCityBear
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Sorry this is late. I went to the St Thomas game. I have these comments.

The highlight of my evening was meeting the mother of Fardaws Aimaq. Sat right behind her. Very nice lady.

First off, do we all realize who this opponent, St Thomas, is? This is a team, as far as I can find out, has been playing D1 basketball for only 3 years. Their best season was finishing in 4th place in the Summit League. They are an undersized team of Caucasians. One very strong point is they have several seniors, who have clearly played together before. They are quick and fast, experienced, and well-coached. They are short. The tallest player they had on the floor was 6-7.

With height and athleticism, plus 2 top 100 players, and a lot of seniors, Cal should not have had this hard a time handling them. With coaching, Cal has way more upside, because they need experience under a new coach. Cal looked to me to be a very skinny team, that is several players need time at the training table to beef up, and time in the gym to get some strength. Aimaq especially is soft. He needs more muscle.

As far as the game went, St Thomas seemed so quick. They were quick on defense, were able to close holes and gaps quickly, not giving Cal many good looks. Askew particularly had trouble scoring inside as he was so well defended all the way to the hoop. I was surprised Cal had no inside-outside game. When the ball went in to Aimaq, he tried to shoot, and never passed back out. No two man plays. No pick and roll. Aimaq has a soft touch, but not very many types of shots. And he got called for fouls on trying to knock his man off the block. The guy guarding him was several inches shorter, and I'd like to see what he does against defenders as tall as he is. In 5 minutes he made us forget poor Lars forever. Aimaq has plenty of upside, IMO.

I have been saying for years that Celestine was Cal's best player, and it has been a tragedy that he has played so little up to now. He is wearing a big knee brace, so I hope and pray he does not get injured again. I feel that way for the whole team. Cal has been snake-bit for years with injuries. Last season, Cal's three best players, Celestine, Clayton, and Askew did not play together on the floor for even one single minute. I know we all don't like Mark Fox, but even a great coach could not win many games with his three best players out of action.

As for Newell, he looked good in the few minutes he played. I was sitting near the Cal bench, and when he left the game, he drank two full bottles of liquid, and then rode the exercise bike the rest of the time. This is usually what players do when they have a cramp. I feel that he was not injured, just cramped up.

Cal had 6 assists. That was pathetic. A good team makes 12-14 at least. The best teams make 20 or more.

The kid from Serbia (or the Haight Ashbury) was very aggressive, with really good instincts and energy, but did not show much offense. You can tell he has played the game before and knows what to do.

I liked Cone, although it took him some time to figure out what would work. I'd like to see if he could run point. I think Askew slows the game down, which is OK to play that way, but maybe not with all the athletic race horses we have now. Askew is a good passer, but passed little in that game.

We were missing 2 pieces, Kennedy and Tyson. I think I read reports that Tyson had been a real catalyst in practice, so it will be interesting how he fits in. I didn't watch Brown much. I do like Bowser, but I wish he would bulk up some, so he doesn't get pushed around. He probably is like a lot of young athletes who can eat 6000 calories a day and not gain a pound. I expected to see more of Okafor, but he did make one nice move and bucket.

Cal will need to learn how to play together better on defense. Switches were way too late. I'd like to see some 2-man plays at least.

Enjoy the game tonight.

SFCityBear
MoragaBear
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Staff
SFCityBear said:

Aimaq especially is soft. He needs more muscle.

This Aimaq? I don't think so.

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