monol96 said:

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I guess other teams better start stopping him then...

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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bearchamp said:

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Just throw in that his domination of the ball and very few passes negates the rest of the team. Better teams will defend against him. Even last night, Colorado started doubling on him. As it is now, it Tyson is stopped, really no other options because no passing nor motion.

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Not sure if this statement is mean to be a criticism. But in the case of the Colorado game, "even...Colorado started doubling on him" didn't seem to be very successful.

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SFCityBear said:

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bearchamp said:

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Just throw in that his domination of the ball and very few passes negates the rest of the team. Better teams will defend against him. Even last night, Colorado started doubling on him. As it is now, it Tyson is stopped, really no other options because no passing nor motion.

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I agree with some of this. I don't know that I would call what Tyson does is "domination of the ball". He is able to anticipate on defense where the ball is and how to get possession of it, either by getting are rebound, a steal, or picking up a loose ball. He averages 7 rebounds per game, (6 defensive) and 2 steals. So he often getting possession of the ball and bringing it up the court, and he will create a shot for himself. One problem Madsen has is the lack of a true point guard, like most coaches today. Cone is a shooting guard, Kennedy is more of a good point defender. Both of them can pass and play the point position, but Tyson is way ahead of them in seeing open teammates, and has mastered several different kinds of passes. Askew is good enough to get 7 assists in a game, but Cone, and Kennedy probably are not. And Madsen's team looks a little like Cunozo's in that he encourages (or does not discourage) Tyson from taking that loose ball he grabbed, and dribbling the length of the court to the rim, or to an open spot to shoot from, successfully.

Some teams have been able to stop Tyson, holding him under 20 points. Cal State Bakersfield held him to 13, but he made 7 assists for a win. Butler held him to 16 points, and he again made 7 assists in a loss. UTEP held him to 15 points, but he only made 2 assists to help hand Cal a loss. UCSD held him to 15 points but he got only 3 assists in another Cal loss. It could be that opposing coaches might be willing to let him get his points, and just try and cut down on him getting easy buckets with assists to his teammates. As you said, there is not enough motion. Teammates are not getting open enough looks.

I have some hopes for Brown, but time is running out for him to emerge this season as more of a point guard. Until then Madsen appears to be willing to let Tyson run the team and be the whole show, along with steady performances from Aimaq. Aimaq, unfortunately is a liability on defense, but that is another story for another day.

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drizzlybear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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bearchamp said:

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Just throw in that his domination of the ball and very few passes negates the rest of the team. Better teams will defend against him. Even last night, Colorado started doubling on him. As it is now, it Tyson is stopped, really no other options because no passing nor motion.

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I agree with some of this. I don't know that I would call what Tyson does is "domination of the ball". He is able to anticipate on defense where the ball is and how to get possession of it, either by getting are rebound, a steal, or picking up a loose ball. He averages 7 rebounds per game, (6 defensive) and 2 steals. So he often getting possession of the ball and bringing it up the court, and he will create a shot for himself. One problem Madsen has is the lack of a true point guard, like most coaches today. Cone is a shooting guard, Kennedy is more of a good point defender. Both of them can pass and play the point position, but Tyson is way ahead of them in seeing open teammates, and has mastered several different kinds of passes. Askew is good enough to get 7 assists in a game, but Cone, and Kennedy probably are not. And Madsen's team looks a little like Cunozo's in that he encourages (or does not discourage) Tyson from taking that loose ball he grabbed, and dribbling the length of the court to the rim, or to an open spot to shoot from, successfully.

Some teams have been able to stop Tyson, holding him under 20 points. Cal State Bakersfield held him to 13, but he made 7 assists for a win. Butler held him to 16 points, and he again made 7 assists in a loss. UTEP held him to 15 points, but he only made 2 assists to help hand Cal a loss. UCSD held him to 15 points but he got only 3 assists in another Cal loss. It could be that opposing coaches might be willing to let him get his points, and just try and cut down on him getting easy buckets with assists to his teammates. As you said, there is not enough motion. Teammates are not getting open enough looks.

I have some hopes for Brown, but time is running out for him to emerge this season as more of a point guard. Until then Madsen appears to be willing to let Tyson run the team and be the whole show, along with steady performances from Aimaq. Aimaq, unfortunately is a liability on defense, but that is another story for another day.

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The offense is usually run through Aimaq.

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SFCityBear said:

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drizzlybear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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bearchamp said:

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Just throw in that his domination of the ball and very few passes negates the rest of the team. Better teams will defend against him. Even last night, Colorado started doubling on him. As it is now, it Tyson is stopped, really no other options because no passing nor motion.

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I agree with some of this. I don't know that I would call what Tyson does is "domination of the ball". He is able to anticipate on defense where the ball is and how to get possession of it, either by getting are rebound, a steal, or picking up a loose ball. He averages 7 rebounds per game, (6 defensive) and 2 steals. So he often getting possession of the ball and bringing it up the court, and he will create a shot for himself. One problem Madsen has is the lack of a true point guard, like most coaches today. Cone is a shooting guard, Kennedy is more of a good point defender. Both of them can pass and play the point position, but Tyson is way ahead of them in seeing open teammates, and has mastered several different kinds of passes. Askew is good enough to get 7 assists in a game, but Cone, and Kennedy probably are not. And Madsen's team looks a little like Cunozo's in that he encourages (or does not discourage) Tyson from taking that loose ball he grabbed, and dribbling the length of the court to the rim, or to an open spot to shoot from, successfully.

Some teams have been able to stop Tyson, holding him under 20 points. Cal State Bakersfield held him to 13, but he made 7 assists for a win. Butler held him to 16 points, and he again made 7 assists in a loss. UTEP held him to 15 points, but he only made 2 assists to help hand Cal a loss. UCSD held him to 15 points but he got only 3 assists in another Cal loss. It could be that opposing coaches might be willing to let him get his points, and just try and cut down on him getting easy buckets with assists to his teammates. As you said, there is not enough motion. Teammates are not getting open enough looks.

I have some hopes for Brown, but time is running out for him to emerge this season as more of a point guard. Until then Madsen appears to be willing to let Tyson run the team and be the whole show, along with steady performances from Aimaq. Aimaq, unfortunately is a liability on defense, but that is another story for another day.

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The offense is usually run through Aimaq.

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I don't disagree, but Madsen has his players playing at a fast pace. I was writing about our full court offense. Aren't you writing about our offense in the half court? Most of the time, Aimaq is one of our last players to make it from the back court to the front court, because he usually is playing near the basket waiting to get the defensive rebound. It takes time for Aimag to get from there to the far end of the court, and Tyson usually gets there ahead of him.

We need both offenses clicking, full court and half court, to be a well rounded team, capable of competing at a high level.

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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As usual, let me qualify the following verbage by saying that I'm only referring to style, and not implying that in any way Jaylon will reach this player's stature.

On offense, Jaylon's style reminds me of a water downed version of Julius Erving.

Same propensity to drive to the hoop right or left. Doesn't have the Doc's length or huge hands but Jaylon has the ability to finish with a jam if he is within distance of the rim. And his outside shot style is eerily similar to the Doc. Closer to a set shot than a jumper. Not a classic three point shooter, but good enough to cause the defender to stay close to him, enabling him to drive. And not oblivious to making a good pass if the situation calls for it. Just something I wanted to throw out there.

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HoopDreams said:

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my question is who is the last Cal player who was better than him in a Cal uniform? (i.e. more productive, not more talented)

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HearstMining said:

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I'm progressively more impressed with Jaylon. How would people rank him against other Cal big guards / small forwards? Patrick Christopher? Lamond Murray? Monty Buckley? Jabari Bird? I guess, going way back, Jackie Ridgle?

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stu said:

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It's been a long time but I don't remember Lamond Murray playing a lot of defense. Maybe that's because Jason Kidd was playing at the same time.

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BC Calfan said:

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HoopDreams said:

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my question is who is the last Cal player who was better than him in a Cal uniform? (i.e. more productive, not more talented)

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Good Q. My initial response was Bradley but I think Jaylon is a better overall offensive player and defender. He's playing better than Jaylen in his one season. More productive than Crabbe? Yes. Peak Gutierrez? Hmm, that might be the debate. If not, Anderson was better. He was dominant.

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HoopDreams said:

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Here are my candidates for the most recent better players:

Bradley - Tyson better offense, better handle, better passer, better rebounder. Similar defense.

Jorge - Tyson better offense, better handle, better rebounder. Similar passer. Jorge much better defense.

Randle - Tyson better rebounder, better defense. Randle much better shooter and better handle.

Rabb - hard to compare a post to a wing and Rabb's main issue was he didn't have players or an offense to get the ball to him in the right place, but I'd say Tyson (Senior) > Rabb (Soph)

Crabbe - This one is very close, as Crabbe was an elite shooter, an in his senior year could also score on 3 levels. Crabbe was also a strong rebounder and his defense is better than Tyson (maybe because Crabbe played under Monty) - I do think the clutch factor favors Tyson - I think it's a jump ball

Anderson - again, played a completely different position, and obviously a much better shooter, but his defense was sus, and I don't remember him being a good rebounder for his position/size

Shipp - I think he won Pac12 POY, but besides his shooting I don't remember much about the rest of his game. I think Tyson is more athletic than Shipp.

Abdur-Rahim - ding ding ding ... no comparison. Abdur-Rahim was clearly better as a freshmen than Senior Tyson.

Kidd - Kidd > Tyson

Murray - Murray was a silky shooter and long arm defender, but I don't remember him taking over games like Tyson does

anytime someone says something about Jorge (including myself, I gotta give a shoutout to my fav player)

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HoopDreams said:

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Here are my candidates for the most recent better players:

Bradley - Tyson better offense, better handle, better passer, better rebounder. Similar defense.

Jorge - Tyson better offense, better handle, better rebounder. Similar passer. Jorge much better defense.

Randle - Tyson better rebounder, better defense. Randle much better shooter and better handle.

Rabb - hard to compare a post to a wing and Rabb's main issue was he didn't have players or an offense to get the ball to him in the right place, but I'd say Tyson (Senior) > Rabb (Soph)

Crabbe - This one is very close, as Crabbe was an elite shooter, an in his senior year could also score on 3 levels. Crabbe was also a strong rebounder and his defense is better than Tyson (maybe because Crabbe played under Monty) - I do think the clutch factor favors Tyson - I think it's a jump ball

Anderson - again, played a completely different position, and obviously a much better shooter, but his defense was sus, and I don't remember him being a good rebounder for his position/size

Shipp - I think he won Pac12 POY, but besides his shooting I don't remember much about the rest of his game. I think Tyson is more athletic than Shipp.

Abdur-Rahim - ding ding ding ... no comparison. Abdur-Rahim was clearly better as a freshmen than Senior Tyson.

Kidd - Kidd > Tyson

Murray - Murray was a silky shooter and long arm defender, but I don't remember him taking over games like Tyson does

anytime someone says something about Jorge (including myself, I gotta give a shoutout to my fav player)

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Here are my candidates for the most recent better players:

Bradley - Tyson better offense, better handle, better passer, better rebounder. Similar defense.

Jorge - Tyson better offense, better handle, better rebounder. Similar passer. Jorge much better defense.

Randle - Tyson better rebounder, better defense. Randle much better shooter and better handle.

Rabb - hard to compare a post to a wing and Rabb's main issue was he didn't have players or an offense to get the ball to him in the right place, but I'd say Tyson (Senior) > Rabb (Soph)

Crabbe - This one is very close, as Crabbe was an elite shooter, an in his senior year could also score on 3 levels. Crabbe was also a strong rebounder and his defense is better than Tyson (maybe because Crabbe played under Monty) - I do think the clutch factor favors Tyson - I think it's a jump ball

Anderson - again, played a completely different position, and obviously a much better shooter, but his defense was sus, and I don't remember him being a good rebounder for his position/size

Shipp - I think he won Pac12 POY, but besides his shooting I don't remember much about the rest of his game. I think Tyson is more athletic than Shipp.

Abdur-Rahim - ding ding ding ... no comparison. Abdur-Rahim was clearly better as a freshmen than Senior Tyson.

Kidd - Kidd > Tyson

Murray - Murray was a silky shooter and long arm defender, but I don't remember him taking over games like Tyson does

anytime someone says something about Jorge (including myself, I gotta give a shoutout to my fav player)

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Lamond didn't take over games because for the most part J Kidd had already done it.

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