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Cal Falls At Stanford In Regular-Season Finale

March 7, 2024
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STANFORD (AP) – Maxime Raynaud scored 20 points on 8-of-11 shooting and Kanaan Carlyle added 12 points, hitting 4 of 4 from 3-point range to help Stanford beat California 80-58 Thursday night in the regular season finale for both teams.

Andrej Stojakovic and Spencer Jones added 10 points apiece for Stanford (13-17, 8-12 Pac-12), which snapped a six-game losing streak and won for just the second time in its last 10 games.

Brandon Angel hit a 3-pointer and then converted a three-point play before Jones made a 3 that gave the Cardinal a 14-7 lead and the Bears trailed the rest of the way. Carlyle and Raynaud hit back-to-back 3s to cap a 9-0 spurt and push the lead into double figures and a 3 by Carlyle made it 34-25 at halftime.

Stanford scored the first six points in a 13-2 run to open the second half and led by double figures for the final 19-plus minutes.

Fardaws Aimaq scored 19 points and grabbed nine rebounds for Cal (13-18, 9-11) and Jaylon Tyson scored 17. The Golden Bears have lost three consecutive games following a three-game win streak.

The Cardinal shot 47% (27 of 57) from the field and hit 12 of 24 from 3-point range while Stanford's bench outscored that of the Bears 46-6.

Cal and Stanford await final seeding for the Pac-12 Tournament, which begins Wednesday in Las Vegas.

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Cal Falls At Stanford In Regular-Season Finale

8,288 Views | 54 Replies | Last: 8 mo ago by calumnus
WantARoseBowlB4IDie
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12:02a, 3/8/24
What a shame. They really limped to the finish line the last 8 days. They were a step slower than during the 3 game win streak. At Maples, they were clearly outworked by a team that appeared to have quit on Jerod Haase weeks ago. I'm not confident in their chances to even win one game next week in Vegas, let alone win the thing to get them to the post-season.
🐻 The Bear Will NOT Quit, The Bear Will NOT Die! 🐻
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cal83dls79
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1:31a, 3/8/24
Glad I missed.
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MoragaBear
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2:05a, 3/8/24
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The trip to Maples was a very unsatisfactory experience but at least I got a decent pizza at Pizzeria Delfina out of it.
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OldenBear
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In reply to MoragaBear • 7:00a, 3/8/24
MoragaBear said:
The trip to Maples was a very unsatisfactory experience but at least I got a decent pizza at Pizzeria Delfina out of it.


Same. Hated the game (can their announcer be any more obnoxious?). Loved the dinner before at Naschmarkt.

Maybe chance for revenge in the tournament
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Jeff82
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7:22a, 3/8/24
Pasternak is not doing much better than us. 16-14 overall, 9-10 in conference.
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HoopDreams
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7:25a, 3/8/24
Stanford senior night got their players juiced, although their crowd didn't look very big

Doesn't maples have fewer seats than Haas?
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westcoastdude
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7:36a, 3/8/24
The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.
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6956bear
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In reply to Jeff82 • 8:56a, 3/8/24
Jeff82 said:
Pasternak is not doing much better than us. 16-14 overall, 9-10 in conference.
But Amir Abdur Rahim has South Florida at 24-5 and won the regular season title in the American Athletic Conference. They are a very possible NCAA at large entry if they do not win the American conference toruney. They won 14 games a year ago. That is a 10 game swing with at least 2 games left to play.

I really like Madsen but I hope we do not come to regret passing on Amir.
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59bear
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In reply to westcoastdude • 9:41a, 3/8/24
westcoastdude said:
The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.
7/8 man rotations are not that uncommon in the college game. Relatively few teams have more than 8 average double digit minutes per game. A bigger problem was that there wasn't much scoring from the subs who did play,
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Jeff82
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9:42a, 3/8/24
The jury is still out on him. He was only 47-75 at Kennesaw State before going to South Florida, where this is his first season. At this point, the only coach I would rather have than Madsen is Gates, who we should have hired from Cleveland State. That ship has sailed, given what he has done at Missouri.
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bearsandgiants
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In reply to westcoastdude • 11:05a, 3/8/24
westcoastdude said:
The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.
Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.
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MoragaBear
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In reply to OldenBear • 11:06a, 3/8/24
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OldenBear said:
MoragaBear said:
The trip to Maples was a very unsatisfactory experience but at least I got a decent pizza at Pizzeria Delfina out of it.


Same. Hated the game (can their announcer be any more obnoxious?). Loved the dinner before at Naschmarkt.

Maybe chance for revenge in the tournament
Yeah, he was a screaming lunatic. Very weird to hear the cacophony of noise there. Unlike my prior experiences and I've seen 6 or 7 other Cal games there.
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BerkeleyBAT
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In reply to Jeff82 • 11:38a, 3/8/24
Jeff82 said:
The jury is still out on him. He was only 47-75 at Kennesaw State before going to South Florida, where this is his first season. At this point, the only coach I would rather have than Madsen is Gates, who we should have hired from Cleveland State. That ship has sailed, given what he has done at Missouri.
Which part of Missouri's 0-17 conference record this year has been most impressive to you?
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MoragaBear
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In reply to BerkeleyBAT • 11:46a, 3/8/24
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BerkeleyBAT said:
Jeff82 said:
The jury is still out on him. He was only 47-75 at Kennesaw State before going to South Florida, where this is his first season. At this point, the only coach I would rather have than Madsen is Gates, who we should have hired from Cleveland State. That ship has sailed, given what he has done at Missouri.
Which part of Missouri's 0-17 conference record this year has been most impressive to you?
And 8-22 overall
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Jeff82
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12:04p, 3/8/24
IMHO, you guys are reinforcing my point. Abdur-Rahim is having a good season at South Florida, but only had one good season at Kennesaw State before going to Florida. Gates is struggling this year, but was 25-10 and made the tournament last year. Pasternack, who a lot of people wanted instead of Madsen, is 16-14 at UCSB, and 9-10 in the Big West.

I don't think you can tell much about any coach from a one-year record, which is why I'm not that unhappy with Madsen, despite the last three games. The proof is going to be in who Madsen can recruit going forward, and how he alters what he's doing each year based on the material he has. One of Fox's biggest faults, other than being a complete ******* to his players, is that he did very little to alter his approach, IMHO, based on the hand he was dealt.

I have hopes that Madsen will be good on that score, having come from the Monty tree. That was one of Monty's strengths, being able to adjust what he was doing to best fit the talent he had available.
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MoragaBear
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In reply to Jeff82 • 12:12p, 3/8/24
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Agreed
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cal83dls79
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12:23p, 3/8/24
Can't read. Lots of points but be more concise?
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4thGenCal
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In reply to bearsandgiants • 12:23p, 3/8/24
bearsandgiants said:
westcoastdude said:
The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.
Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.
Well - I personally agree with the first assessment - the lack of depth really took its toll as to be a true contender (top 4 conf finish) a coach needs to have 8 players (10+ min ea minimum) that are quality players. Madsen did not have that due to a late August transfer out in Meadows, and 2 key injuries with players out for the majority of conf play.(Askew/ ND). Tyson early season waiver delay was a huge impact to several early losses. Not excuses just facts and throw in the mind set and disaster inherited from the previous season, integrating a new starting team, developing chemistry (important) the team has overall made good strides. It will come down to NIL for the next season, Cal fans are loyal, but the wealthy alums/supporters have been Luke warm in NIL giving thus far. The lure of the Cal degree to the better portal and HS players is a distant third to NIL, skill development/exposure. Can say the players Love playing for Madsen - the product of the last 2 games is largely due to too minutes required by the top 4 players.
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cal83dls79
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1:58p, 3/8/24
You need to be concise.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
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polarbear
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4:55p, 3/8/24
This team has continually gotten better all year, but these three losses to end the regular season give it a sour note. Hopefully they can win a game or two in the conference tournament, maybe even four!
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calumnus
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In reply to WantARoseBowlB4IDie • 5:08p, 3/8/24
WantARoseBowlB4IDie said:
What a shame. They really limped to the finish line the last 8 days. They were a step slower than during the 3 game win streak. At Maples, they were clearly outworked by a team that appeared to have quit on Jerod Haase weeks ago. I'm not confident in their chances to even win one game next week in Vegas, let alone win the thing to get them to the post-season.


It was also Madsen's first trip to Stanford as Cal's coach. I know it would be tough for me if it were reversed. He was 4-0 at Maples against Cal as a player and is a very honest, emotional guy. He may end up having a record there like Monty, which will be more than fine if he regularly gets 20 wins and wins us a conference championship like Monty.
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calumnus
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In reply to polarbear • 5:11p, 3/8/24
polarbear said:
This team has continually gotten better all year, but these three losses to end the regular season give it a sour note. Hopefully they can win a game or two in the conference tournament, maybe even four!


Yep, we really need to go into Vegas with a mindset to win it. We have talent and for most of these guys these will be their final college games.
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HoopDreams
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In reply to 4thGenCal • 7:37p, 3/8/24
4thGenCal said:
bearsandgiants said:
westcoastdude said:
The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.
Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.
Well - I personally agree with the first assessment - the lack of depth really took its toll as to be a true contender (top 4 conf finish) a coach needs to have 8 players (10+ min ea minimum) that are quality players. Madsen did not have that due to a late August transfer out in Meadows, and 2 key injuries with players out for the majority of conf play.(Askew/ ND). Tyson early season waiver delay was a huge impact to several early losses. Not excuses just facts and throw in the mind set and disaster inherited from the previous season, integrating a new starting team, developing chemistry (important) the team has overall made good strides. It will come down to NIL for the next season, Cal fans are loyal, but the wealthy alums/supporters have been Luke warm in NIL giving thus far. The lure of the Cal degree to the better portal and HS players is a distant third to NIL, skill development/exposure. Can say the players Love playing for Madsen - the product of the last 2 games is largely due to too minutes required by the top 4 players.
Tyson only missed one game. It was Kennedy's hand injury that really impacted this team. I think he would have made the difference in 3+ games

I'm not sure what the impact Askew had besides providing depth, but Okofor really hurt. Larson is a warrior and provides needed minutes, but he is so overmatched against P6 bigs that it's sometimes hard to watch.

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barsad
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9:50p, 3/8/24
As usual 4thGenCal is spot on with the analysis. Personally I've already moved on from the "whys" of this season, all these micro-events are already historical footnotes. Like 4thGenCal, I am mystified that we've signed one point guard for next year. Every time I bring this up in other threads I get, "We'll get the other three starters from the portal," but come on guys, it's not actually a magic portal that pops out instant hoops stars to make a tournament-quality team!
I don't know enough about Xs and Os to say whether Madsen is good at it or not, I just know Ws and Ls. He has set the bar at 13, now he's got to go higher. But right now, with one recruit signed, I don't see the path to get there.

My friend who's a Duke fan reminded me that we're going to face these two monsters at Cameron next year:
Maluach
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39666849/khaman-maluach-top-big-man-2024-class-commits-duke
Flagg


We don't want to be embarrassed against these two super-frosh phenoms, let's pick up some of our own ASAP.
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4thGenCal
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In reply to HoopDreams • 10:28p, 3/8/24
HoopDreams said:
4thGenCal said:
bearsandgiants said:
westcoastdude said:
The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.
Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.
Well - I personally agree with the first assessment - the lack of depth really took its toll as to be a true contender (top 4 conf finish) a coach needs to have 8 players (10+ min ea minimum) that are quality players. Madsen did not have that due to a late August transfer out in Meadows, and 2 key injuries with players out for the majority of conf play.(Askew/ ND). Tyson early season waiver delay was a huge impact to several early losses. Not excuses just facts and throw in the mind set and disaster inherited from the previous season, integrating a new starting team, developing chemistry (important) the team has overall made good strides. It will come down to NIL for the next season, Cal fans are loyal, but the wealthy alums/supporters have been Luke warm in NIL giving thus far. The lure of the Cal degree to the better portal and HS players is a distant third to NIL, skill development/exposure. Can say the players Love playing for Madsen - the product of the last 2 games is largely due to too minutes required by the top 4 players.
Tyson only missed one game. It was Kennedy's hand injury that really impacted this team. I think he would have made the difference in 3+ games

I'm not sure what the impact Askew had besides providing depth, but Okofor really hurt. Larson is a warrior and provides needed minutes, but he is so overmatched against P6 bigs that it's sometimes hard to watch.

Agreed - but Tyson was on an emotional roller coaster (completely understandable) as to whether He should have taken the Kansas offer when the delay was going on and it did impact his preparation during that time. The Kennedy injury (good correction) was the one that really impacted the team (3-4 games for sure). Hard to know with Askew - but the team has not had an effective point/ball handler who is a true pass first player. Tyson can certainly show flashes at directing the team - but that is not his most effective position. Askew could have given the team some steady minutes and allowed Cone even Tyson to get some needed rest minutes. Players for the most part listened to him and He really wanted to improve his on court leadership. ND has flashes of impact but will be very interesting if He returns. Good young man, has not developed as quickly as hoped. Spot on assessment for Larson and Curtis as well, both currently very limited. NIL amount of raise will dictate the quality of incoming recruits.
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calumnus
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In reply to barsad • 10:34p, 3/8/24
barsad said:
As usual 4thGenCal is spot on with the analysis. Personally I've already moved on from the "whys" of this season, all these micro-events are already historical footnotes. Like 4thGenCal, I am mystified that we've signed one point guard for next year. Every time I bring this up in other threads I get, "We'll get the other three starters from the portal," but come on guys, it's not actually a magic portal that pops out instant hoops stars to make a tournament-quality team!
I don't know enough about Xs and Os to say whether Madsen is good at it or not, I just know Ws and Ls. He has set the bar at 13, now he's got to go higher. But right now, with one recruit signed, I don't see the path to get there.

My friend who's a Duke fan reminded me that we're going to face these two monsters at Cameron next year:
Maluach
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39666849/khaman-maluach-top-big-man-2024-class-commits-duke
Flagg


We don't want to be embarrassed against these two super-frosh phenoms, let's pick up some of our own ASAP.


The season has not ended yet, so no one has entered the portal and no one knows who will enter, much less knows who we will get. It all remains to be seen. Saying "They will come from the portal" is just a fact. We just have to wait for it to play out.
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Big C
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In reply to barsad • 10:36p, 3/8/24
barsad said:
As usual 4thGenCal is spot on with the analysis. Personally I've already moved on from the "whys" of this season, all these micro-events are already historical footnotes. Like 4thGenCal, I am mystified that we've signed one point guard for next year. Every time I bring this up in other threads I get, "We'll get the other three starters from the portal," but come on guys, it's not actually a magic portal that pops out instant hoops stars to make a tournament-quality team!
I don't know enough about Xs and Os to say whether Madsen is good at it or not, I just know Ws and Ls. He has set the bar at 13, now he's got to go higher. But right now, with one recruit signed, I don't see the path to get there.

My friend who's a Duke fan reminded me that we're going to face these two monsters at Cameron next year:
Maluach
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39666849/khaman-maluach-top-big-man-2024-class-commits-duke
Flagg


We don't want to be embarrassed against these two super-frosh phenoms, let's pick up some of our own ASAP.

Two things about the high school recruiting:

- these guys usually decide during the summer before their senior year, or that fall... and they develop their "short list" a year before that

- the college coaches need to build relationships with the top few dozen "feeder schools" and, especially the places like Prolific Prep and the AAU programs (not to mention international). At Utah Valley, Madsen was fishing in a different pond.


So it's going to take him 2-3 years to get there... and in the meantime, he's going to fill in with transfers. But what separates the wheat from the chaff here is that most guys never get there.
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KoreAmBear
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In reply to MoragaBear • 12:46a, 3/9/24
MoragaBear said:
The trip to Maples was a very unsatisfactory experience but at least I got a decent pizza at Pizzeria Delfina out of it.
I got The Melt out of it. Great burgers.
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HoopDreams
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In reply to 4thGenCal • 8:01a, 3/9/24
A lot to unpack in your post

Interesting that Tyson had a Kansas offer that he was still running through his mind.

I continue to hope Okofor figures it out

We hit two home runs with the Texas Tech transfers but part of that was due to our assistant coach from TT. I didn't like Madsen hiring 2 former Utah Valley coaches because it meant the only relationships 3/4s of the coaching staff had was with Utah Valley recruits

This will be an entirely new team next year

4thGenCal said:
HoopDreams said:
4thGenCal said:
bearsandgiants said:
westcoastdude said:
The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.
Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.
Well - I personally agree with the first assessment - the lack of depth really took its toll as to be a true contender (top 4 conf finish) a coach needs to have 8 players (10+ min ea minimum) that are quality players. Madsen did not have that due to a late August transfer out in Meadows, and 2 key injuries with players out for the majority of conf play.(Askew/ ND). Tyson early season waiver delay was a huge impact to several early losses. Not excuses just facts and throw in the mind set and disaster inherited from the previous season, integrating a new starting team, developing chemistry (important) the team has overall made good strides. It will come down to NIL for the next season, Cal fans are loyal, but the wealthy alums/supporters have been Luke warm in NIL giving thus far. The lure of the Cal degree to the better portal and HS players is a distant third to NIL, skill development/exposure. Can say the players Love playing for Madsen - the product of the last 2 games is largely due to too minutes required by the top 4 players.
Tyson only missed one game. It was Kennedy's hand injury that really impacted this team. I think he would have made the difference in 3+ games

I'm not sure what the impact Askew had besides providing depth, but Okofor really hurt. Larson is a warrior and provides needed minutes, but he is so overmatched against P6 bigs that it's sometimes hard to watch.

Agreed - but Tyson was on an emotional roller coaster (completely understandable) as to whether He should have taken the Kansas offer when the delay was going on and it did impact his preparation during that time. The Kennedy injury (good correction) was the one that really impacted the team (3-4 games for sure). Hard to know with Askew - but the team has not had an effective point/ball handler who is a true pass first player. Tyson can certainly show flashes at directing the team - but that is not his most effective position. Askew could have given the team some steady minutes and allowed Cone even Tyson to get some needed rest minutes. Players for the most part listened to him and He really wanted to improve his on court leadership. ND has flashes of impact but will be very interesting if He returns. Good young man, has not developed as quickly as hoped. Spot on assessment for Larson and Curtis as well, both currently very limited. NIL amount of raise will dictate the quality of incoming recruits.
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RedlessWardrobe
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8:43a, 3/9/24
Bottom line: Okafor, Curtis, Larson, all show potential but all come with question marks.

To barsad's point, Madsen needs to bring in a 4 star big man (recruit or portal) this spring, or else we could be looking at a very long season next year.
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stu
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In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 9:18a, 3/9/24
After losing Kennedy and probably Tyson we'll also need one or two wings.
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sluggo
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In reply to 4thGenCal • 10:26a, 3/9/24
4thGenCal said:
HoopDreams said:
4thGenCal said:
bearsandgiants said:
westcoastdude said:
The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.
Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.
Well - I personally agree with the first assessment - the lack of depth really took its toll as to be a true contender (top 4 conf finish) a coach needs to have 8 players (10+ min ea minimum) that are quality players. Madsen did not have that due to a late August transfer out in Meadows, and 2 key injuries with players out for the majority of conf play.(Askew/ ND). Tyson early season waiver delay was a huge impact to several early losses. Not excuses just facts and throw in the mind set and disaster inherited from the previous season, integrating a new starting team, developing chemistry (important) the team has overall made good strides. It will come down to NIL for the next season, Cal fans are loyal, but the wealthy alums/supporters have been Luke warm in NIL giving thus far. The lure of the Cal degree to the better portal and HS players is a distant third to NIL, skill development/exposure. Can say the players Love playing for Madsen - the product of the last 2 games is largely due to too minutes required by the top 4 players.
Tyson only missed one game. It was Kennedy's hand injury that really impacted this team. I think he would have made the difference in 3+ games

I'm not sure what the impact Askew had besides providing depth, but Okofor really hurt. Larson is a warrior and provides needed minutes, but he is so overmatched against P6 bigs that it's sometimes hard to watch.

Agreed - but Tyson was on an emotional roller coaster (completely understandable) as to whether He should have taken the Kansas offer when the delay was going on and it did impact his preparation during that time. The Kennedy injury (good correction) was the one that really impacted the team (3-4 games for sure). Hard to know with Askew - but the team has not had an effective point/ball handler who is a true pass first player. Tyson can certainly show flashes at directing the team - but that is not his most effective position. Askew could have given the team some steady minutes and allowed Cone even Tyson to get some needed rest minutes. Players for the most part listened to him and He really wanted to improve his on court leadership. ND has flashes of impact but will be very interesting if He returns. Good young man, has not developed as quickly as hoped. Spot on assessment for Larson and Curtis as well, both currently very limited. NIL amount of raise will dictate the quality of incoming recruits.
Okafor has developed as exactly as should have been expected given his level before coming to Cal. See my many old posts on this topic. This happens every year with Cal recruits. It might be happening again.
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HoopDreams
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In reply to sluggo • 10:37a, 3/9/24
Sluggo, remind me what you thought early on about Okofor

I remember think he had poor team defense fundamentals but it could be coached up (like Kelly before him who also came in with the same poor defense)

sluggo said:
4thGenCal said:
HoopDreams said:
4thGenCal said:
bearsandgiants said:
westcoastdude said:
The short bench took a toll over the final weeks of the season. The team looked drained and that is most likely the result of the starters having to play so many minutes. Jaylon Tyson did not look like the player who played stellar basketball for the majority of the season. Madsen did a very good job given what he inherited, the injuries and integrating so many new players.

Hopefully Cal comes back and beats Furd in Vegas.
Madsen put together a decent squad. Not sure how much NIL money it took to get it done, but on paper, they looked to be very strong going into the season. They ended up decent to poor. We didn't have that many injuries this year, though, so the lack of depth is concerning. There were folks who played a few minutes and then never saw the floor again. We have ONE recruit signed for next year as a HS player...is that right? It's a lot of work to rebuild a basketball team, even when you have a lot of NIL money. U$C had a great cast of players on paper and it took a whole season to gel. I love Madsen's attitude and his ability to bring the team together as a band of brothers. I worry a LOT about his Xs and Os, though, and his ability to develop players as the team continues to make a lot of the same mistakes. They peaked early, I guess. Maybe they figured this game doesn't mean anything once the lost the two at altitude. But we always seem to have excuses and we never seem to have depth. And that's not changing if we're brining in only one recruit. We need a lot of fresh talent next year, and not just grad transfers and 5th year seniors. There's really no reason we can't land some of the best young, smart players out there given the Cal degree carrot. Coupled with NIL money, we should be able to recruit a lot more than one player.
Well - I personally agree with the first assessment - the lack of depth really took its toll as to be a true contender (top 4 conf finish) a coach needs to have 8 players (10+ min ea minimum) that are quality players. Madsen did not have that due to a late August transfer out in Meadows, and 2 key injuries with players out for the majority of conf play.(Askew/ ND). Tyson early season waiver delay was a huge impact to several early losses. Not excuses just facts and throw in the mind set and disaster inherited from the previous season, integrating a new starting team, developing chemistry (important) the team has overall made good strides. It will come down to NIL for the next season, Cal fans are loyal, but the wealthy alums/supporters have been Luke warm in NIL giving thus far. The lure of the Cal degree to the better portal and HS players is a distant third to NIL, skill development/exposure. Can say the players Love playing for Madsen - the product of the last 2 games is largely due to too minutes required by the top 4 players.
Tyson only missed one game. It was Kennedy's hand injury that really impacted this team. I think he would have made the difference in 3+ games

I'm not sure what the impact Askew had besides providing depth, but Okofor really hurt. Larson is a warrior and provides needed minutes, but he is so overmatched against P6 bigs that it's sometimes hard to watch.

Agreed - but Tyson was on an emotional roller coaster (completely understandable) as to whether He should have taken the Kansas offer when the delay was going on and it did impact his preparation during that time. The Kennedy injury (good correction) was the one that really impacted the team (3-4 games for sure). Hard to know with Askew - but the team has not had an effective point/ball handler who is a true pass first player. Tyson can certainly show flashes at directing the team - but that is not his most effective position. Askew could have given the team some steady minutes and allowed Cone even Tyson to get some needed rest minutes. Players for the most part listened to him and He really wanted to improve his on court leadership. ND has flashes of impact but will be very interesting if He returns. Good young man, has not developed as quickly as hoped. Spot on assessment for Larson and Curtis as well, both currently very limited. NIL amount of raise will dictate the quality of incoming recruits.
Okafor has developed as exactly as should have been expected given his level before coming to Cal. See my many old posts on this topic. This happens every year with Cal recruits. It might be happening again.
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sluggo
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In reply to HoopDreams • 11:22a, 3/9/24
HoopDreams said:
Sluggo, remind me what you thought early on about Okofor

I remember think he had poor team defense fundamentals but it could be coached up (like Kelly before him who also came in with the same poor defense)
Can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass. Has pretty good footwork, maybe from a soccer background. Pretty good but not overwhelming athlete.

The official scouting report here was NBA level talent.
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mdbear
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In reply to Jeff82 • 11:23a, 3/9/24
Jeff82 said:
IMHO, you guys are reinforcing my point. Abdur-Rahim is having a good season at South Florida, but only had one good season at Kennesaw State before going to Florida. Gates is struggling this year, but was 25-10 and made the tournament last year. Pasternack, who a lot of people wanted instead of Madsen, is 16-14 at UCSB, and 9-10 in the Big West.

I don't think you can tell much about any coach from a one-year record, which is why I'm not that unhappy with Madsen, despite the last three games. The proof is going to be in who Madsen can recruit going forward, and how he alters what he's doing each year based on the material he has. One of Fox's biggest faults, other than being a complete ******* to his players, is that he did very little to alter his approach, IMHO, based on the hand he was dealt.

I have hopes that Madsen will be good on that score, having come from the Monty tree. That was one of Monty's strengths, being able to adjust what he was doing to best fit the talent he had available.
I agree. Madsen was not my first choice, but now he is our coach, and we need to all stand behind him and set realistic expectations. He inherited a hopeless disaster, and the team showed significant improvement over last season. Now the real test comes to see whether he can adapt and develop a winning culture. I am patient and would be happy if he gets us to a winning record by his third season and continues from there.
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