SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

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6956bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

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SF City Bear I really appreciate your POV. But that is no longer how roster building works. We can all wish for the days of Pete Newell again. Or even Monty. But they are gone. The players want to play. Immediately. And they want to be paid. If they are expected to develop they will go somewhere else where they will play and get a bag.

I hate what the game has become. But that is what it is. Until they change the rules. Players want to play. Fans are being asked to pony up so the program can buy a team. And if the coach does not win immediately the fans will be reluctant to feed the collective.

This is pay for play. Free agency. I agree in principle with much of what you say. But it ain't happening. Not anymore.

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calumnus said:

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6956bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

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SF City Bear I really appreciate your POV. But that is no longer how roster building works. We can all wish for the days of Pete Newell again. Or even Monty. But they are gone. The players want to play. Immediately. And they want to be paid. If they are expected to develop they will go somewhere else where they will play and get a bag.

I hate what the game has become. But that is what it is. Until they change the rules. Players want to play. Fans are being asked to pony up so the program can buy a team. And if the coach does not win immediately the fans will be reluctant to feed the collective.

This is pay for play. Free agency. I agree in principle with much of what you say. But it ain't happening. Not anymore.

---

Also, we did not "lose" anyone to the Portal that Madsen brought in through the Portal. We have a complete rebuild because the players Madsen brought in are one year players. We are also continuing to lose the players Fox brought in out of HS or through the Portal, some of whom will have a Cal degree (Celestine and Askew) but also Curtis and Brown.

I agree it will be a test to see if Madsen can build a better team than last year's and how they deal with the travel involved in the ACC.

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oskidunker said:

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calumnus said:

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6956bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

---

SF City Bear I really appreciate your POV. But that is no longer how roster building works. We can all wish for the days of Pete Newell again. Or even Monty. But they are gone. The players want to play. Immediately. And they want to be paid. If they are expected to develop they will go somewhere else where they will play and get a bag.

I hate what the game has become. But that is what it is. Until they change the rules. Players want to play. Fans are being asked to pony up so the program can buy a team. And if the coach does not win immediately the fans will be reluctant to feed the collective.

This is pay for play. Free agency. I agree in principle with much of what you say. But it ain't happening. Not anymore.

---

Also, we did not "lose" anyone to the Portal that Madsen brought in through the Portal. We have a complete rebuild because the players Madsen brought in are one year players. We are also continuing to lose the players Fox brought in out of HS or through the Portal, some of whom will have a Cal degree (Celestine and Askew) but also Curtis and Brown.

I agree it will be a test to see if Madsen can build a better team than last year's and how they deal with the travel involved in the ACC.

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Curtis is not in the portal unless it happened re ently

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SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

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59bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

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Problem is, the only olayers who want to stay 4 years these days are walk-ons and projects. Even those of modest ability have delusions of an NBA future or think they can enhance their development (or score some NIL$$) by jumping to another school in the portal. Like it or not, free agency is the order of the day until some restriction of player movement is restored through negotiation or legislation.

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stu said:

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oskidunker said:

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calumnus said:

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6956bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

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SF City Bear I really appreciate your POV. But that is no longer how roster building works. We can all wish for the days of Pete Newell again. Or even Monty. But they are gone. The players want to play. Immediately. And they want to be paid. If they are expected to develop they will go somewhere else where they will play and get a bag.

I hate what the game has become. But that is what it is. Until they change the rules. Players want to play. Fans are being asked to pony up so the program can buy a team. And if the coach does not win immediately the fans will be reluctant to feed the collective.

This is pay for play. Free agency. I agree in principle with much of what you say. But it ain't happening. Not anymore.

---

Also, we did not "lose" anyone to the Portal that Madsen brought in through the Portal. We have a complete rebuild because the players Madsen brought in are one year players. We are also continuing to lose the players Fox brought in out of HS or through the Portal, some of whom will have a Cal degree (Celestine and Askew) but also Curtis and Brown.

I agree it will be a test to see if Madsen can build a better team than last year's and how they deal with the travel involved in the ACC.

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Curtis is not in the portal unless it happened re ently

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I think Fox HS recruits who entered the portal this season without a Cal degree include Newell, Okafor, and Brown.

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6956bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

---

SF City Bear I really appreciate your POV. But that is no longer how roster building works. We can all wish for the days of Pete Newell again. Or even Monty. But they are gone. The players want to play. Immediately. And they want to be paid. If they are expected to develop they will go somewhere else where they will play and get a bag.

I hate what the game has become. But that is what it is. Until they change the rules. Players want to play. Fans are being asked to pony up so the program can buy a team. And if the coach does not win immediately the fans will be reluctant to feed the collective.

This is pay for play. Free agency. I agree in principle with much of what you say. But it ain't happening. Not anymore.

---

calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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6956bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

---

SF City Bear I really appreciate your POV. But that is no longer how roster building works. We can all wish for the days of Pete Newell again. Or even Monty. But they are gone. The players want to play. Immediately. And they want to be paid. If they are expected to develop they will go somewhere else where they will play and get a bag.

I hate what the game has become. But that is what it is. Until they change the rules. Players want to play. Fans are being asked to pony up so the program can buy a team. And if the coach does not win immediately the fans will be reluctant to feed the collective.

This is pay for play. Free agency. I agree in principle with much of what you say. But it ain't happening. Not anymore.

---

First of all, what roster building? There is very little roster building. How is bringing a team of one and done or two and done players building anything except the players' bank accounts? Where did I say anything about the days of Pete Newell? My post was in response to what I am reading in this thread, which was there was only one place to recruit and that was the portal. Let me ask then, if the only place you are going to recruit, the only place where all teams are going to try and recruit, is the portal, then the the portal will eventually begin to run out of good players for teams to recruit. It is just arithmetic or algebra.. If teams stop recruiting freshmen, or even just reduce the amount of freshmen they recruit, then the portal starts to dry up, doesn't it? When there are fewer freshmen entering college, then their are fewer players in college working to build enough of a reputation to enter the portal. Show me where that is wrong.

I think you still need to recruit a few freshmen to fill some roster spots. Average players with real potential but with average or below average ranking. There are some good prospects in Europe. Serbia, Africa, Australia, etc. I would not try and recruit 4 or 5 star high school players, unless they were really outstanding. Then they leave in a year, and so what? I would take a few average high school recruits with potential, and give them the coaching they need to get into the portal in 1, 2 or 3 years. Players who would realize what great coaching they would get at Cal, along with the education, which is frosting on the cake. Many will understand why they will need that, when they have to end their careers due to injury, or just not being good enough to get to the higher levels. Of course, this assumes we have a great coach, and I haven't seen that yet. My jury is still out on Madsen. He will have a very tough road, like most coaches will, I assume. Bringing in a mostly new roster every year won't be a picnic.

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What is happening in the Portal is teams like Cal are getting players who were successful at lower levels. That opens up openings at their former team for more freshmen, or players from even lower levels, or guys from higher levels moving down for playing time.

Other than top level freshmen, you will see more freshmen "projects" starting out st lower levels.

Put another way, all the slots on all the teams will be filled. For every player on college basketball that exhausts their eligibility or jumps to the NBA, a freshman will come into college basketball, just not necessarily the same team as the player that left.

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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6956bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

---

SF City Bear I really appreciate your POV. But that is no longer how roster building works. We can all wish for the days of Pete Newell again. Or even Monty. But they are gone. The players want to play. Immediately. And they want to be paid. If they are expected to develop they will go somewhere else where they will play and get a bag.

I hate what the game has become. But that is what it is. Until they change the rules. Players want to play. Fans are being asked to pony up so the program can buy a team. And if the coach does not win immediately the fans will be reluctant to feed the collective.

This is pay for play. Free agency. I agree in principle with much of what you say. But it ain't happening. Not anymore.

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First of all, what roster building? There is very little roster building. How is bringing a team of one and done or two and done players building anything except the players' bank accounts? Where did I say anything about the days of Pete Newell? My post was in response to what I am reading in this thread, which was there was only one place to recruit and that was the portal. Let me ask then, if the only place you are going to recruit, the only place where all teams are going to try and recruit, is the portal, then the the portal will eventually begin to run out of good players for teams to recruit. It is just arithmetic or algebra.. If teams stop recruiting freshmen, or even just reduce the amount of freshmen they recruit, then the portal starts to dry up, doesn't it? When there are fewer freshmen entering college, then their are fewer players in college working to build enough of a reputation to enter the portal. Show me where that is wrong.

I think you still need to recruit a few freshmen to fill some roster spots. Average players with real potential but with average or below average ranking. There are some good prospects in Europe. Serbia, Africa, Australia, etc. I would not try and recruit 4 or 5 star high school players, unless they were really outstanding. Then they leave in a year, and so what? I would take a few average high school recruits with potential, and give them the coaching they need to get into the portal in 1, 2 or 3 years. Players who would realize what great coaching they would get at Cal, along with the education, which is frosting on the cake. Many will understand why they will need that, when they have to end their careers due to injury, or just not being good enough to get to the higher levels. Of course, this assumes we have a great coach, and I haven't seen that yet. My jury is still out on Madsen. He will have a very tough road, like most coaches will, I assume. Bringing in a mostly new roster every year won't be a picnic.

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What is happening in the Portal is teams like Cal are getting players who were successful at lower levels. That opens up openings at their former team for more freshmen, or players from even lower levels, or guys from higher levels moving down for playing time.

Other than top level freshmen, you will see more freshmen "projects" starting out st lower levels.

Put another way, all the slots on all the teams will be filled. For every player on college basketball that exhausts their eligibility or jumps to the NBA, a freshman will come into college basketball, just not necessarily the same team as the player that left.

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Could you factor injuries into this analysis? Most of the portal transfers Cal has landed in the last few years were injured players:

Fardaws left his previous school because he didn't like the way the coach was pushing him to recover faster from a serious ankle injury

Cone missed much of his last season at Virginia Tech with an ankle injury

Kennedy had a bad injury (self inflicted)

Clayton had numerous injuries over his college career.

Askew had a hernia and an eye injury (not sure if these were pre-Cal)

Forman had a foot injury

Hyder had an injured back.

Betley had a knee (patella) injury and missed a season with it.

South had an ankle injury.

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SFCityBear said:

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6956bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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We need almost an entirely new rotation roster. Cal's major missing piece last season was a point guard. We had no leader on the floor, no quarterback. In crunch time ( which was nearly all the time, it was give the ball to Tyson and he will make something happen. He is a special player.

We also needed a shooting guard so Tyson could play as a small forward for most of the game. We needed better three point shooting. The hype we were fed was that Cal would assemble a team that would start several players who would average 40% on threes, as several of those players had done that in the past. Several of the new players disappointed in that, probably due to playing against better teams and better defenses than they had played against before.

I am not sold on the portal being the place we should focus on for talent. You can find talented players there as Madsen did, but all he did (which was a lot) was to quickly raise Cal from the basement to the first floor, just below average, and now the cupboard is empty and we have to watch him start all over again. The portal is full of players who were unhappy where they were playing. You don't jump schools if you are happy where you are. These are the players who may very well think of jumping ship again, as what has happened to Cal now.

I think the two most important positions are the point guard and the center, maybe less so than in the past, but those are still the players you build a team around. Therefore I think Madsen should recruit high schools and maybe JCs, for those two players, and not use the Portal as his primary source for them. I think center and point guard should be players who want to stay 3 or 4 years. The center and point guard should have the potential to play really good defense, because of the need to stop the ball at the point of attack, and the need to not give up easy buckets in the paint. These two positions need to focus the most on learning the game and learning team play on defense and offense. I think it takes 1, 2, or-3 years to develop into good solid college players at these positions. Shooters, scorers are a dime a dozen, in the Portal and in the recruiting pool. Going forward, I think teams will need to adapt their strategies to recruiting, and focus on getting some players who you can depend on to stay a few years, and provide the stability and glue to keep a program at a high level, alongside recruiting in the portal for need.

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SF City Bear I really appreciate your POV. But that is no longer how roster building works. We can all wish for the days of Pete Newell again. Or even Monty. But they are gone. The players want to play. Immediately. And they want to be paid. If they are expected to develop they will go somewhere else where they will play and get a bag.

I hate what the game has become. But that is what it is. Until they change the rules. Players want to play. Fans are being asked to pony up so the program can buy a team. And if the coach does not win immediately the fans will be reluctant to feed the collective.

This is pay for play. Free agency. I agree in principle with much of what you say. But it ain't happening. Not anymore.

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First of all, what roster building? There is very little roster building. How is bringing a team of one and done or two and done players building anything except the players' bank accounts? Where did I say anything about the days of Pete Newell? My post was in response to what I am reading in this thread, which was there was only one place to recruit and that was the portal. Let me ask then, if the only place you are going to recruit, the only place where all teams are going to try and recruit, is the portal, then the the portal will eventually begin to run out of good players for teams to recruit. It is just arithmetic or algebra.. If teams stop recruiting freshmen, or even just reduce the amount of freshmen they recruit, then the portal starts to dry up, doesn't it? When there are fewer freshmen entering college, then their are fewer players in college working to build enough of a reputation to enter the portal. Show me where that is wrong.

I think you still need to recruit a few freshmen to fill some roster spots. Average players with real potential but with average or below average ranking. There are some good prospects in Europe. Serbia, Africa, Australia, etc. I would not try and recruit 4 or 5 star high school players, unless they were really outstanding. Then they leave in a year, and so what? I would take a few average high school recruits with potential, and give them the coaching they need to get into the portal in 1, 2 or 3 years. Players who would realize what great coaching they would get at Cal, along with the education, which is frosting on the cake. Many will understand why they will need that, when they have to end their careers due to injury, or just not being good enough to get to the higher levels. Of course, this assumes we have a great coach, and I haven't seen that yet. My jury is still out on Madsen. He will have a very tough road, like most coaches will, I assume. Bringing in a mostly new roster every year won't be a picnic.

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DaveT said:

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Quote:

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Can Madsen's coaches recruit well? Initially it looked like it. But after a season of watching his recruits, I don't feel that way yet. Tyson was very good, but the lack of a point guard really hurt Cal all season long. Can Madsen evaluate players? Here is what he said about Cone . . . .

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Not sure I get this. In his first year, Madsen recruited: (1) a first-round NBA talent who was #3 in the conference in PPG, #7 in RPG, and #9 in assists per game; (2) a center who led the conference in RPG and was #14 in PPG; and (3) a defensive specialist who was #6 in the conference in steals per game and played generally solid and consistent defense over the entire season. Cone wasn't as good as billed, but he wasn't a disaster at 13.4 PPG, and 2.3 assists per game. His 3P% was way below his career numbers, but even with his inconsistency, he was a valuable player in multiple games.

He did this with a team coming off one of the most embarrassing seasons I can remember, and without a massive NIL budget. Given the situation, Madsen did an incredible job of recruiting. Maybe that was a fluke, but I'm not sure what more you could have asked of him.

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bearsandgiants said:

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Can we utilize AI to zero in on the top prospects for us? Feel like the money invested in it would pay huge dividends.

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bearsandgiants said:

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Can we utilize AI to zero in on the top prospects for us? Feel like the money invested in it would pay huge dividends.

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