Translated: The all-offense-no-defense coach, or the coach whose teams cannot-hold-onto-a-big-lead-in- the-second-half-coach?
PS. I didn't see the game.
PS. I didn't see the game.
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Is Mark Madsen the Sonny Dykes or the Justin Wilcox of Cal basketball?
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Last: 14 days ago by Bisonbob
noSFCityBear said:
Translated: The all-offense-no-defense coach, or the coach whose teams cannot-hold-onto-a-big-lead-in- the-second-half-coach?
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
Better than both but more like Wilcox, especially last night. As soon as our chance to stretch a lead from 18 to 20 or 21, became a turnover and 16 point lead to end the half.
I had a feeling it was over. Instead of coming out on fire and playing lock down d, we turtled and watched the lead wither away. Team lost all confidence at halftime instead of coming out with even more. That's on mad dog, and it's a theme.
I had a feeling it was over. Instead of coming out on fire and playing lock down d, we turtled and watched the lead wither away. Team lost all confidence at halftime instead of coming out with even more. That's on mad dog, and it's a theme.
Better yet, because of NIL and The Portal, are the Bears the Oakland (formerly) A's of college basketball where each year you have to memorize a new roster?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
neither.
obviously it sucks to blow that HT lead but it doesn't hurt as bad when you consider the following:
- 1 player injured (who is one of our better defenders and would have been particularly helpful vs Mizzou's guard)
- some dubious foul calls
- Mizzou is 7-1 w/ their only loss @ Memphis who might be pretty good
ACC also doesn't look very good this yr. Duke and Clemson were the only ACC reps to win their match-up in the ACC/SEC Challenge.
obviously it sucks to blow that HT lead but it doesn't hurt as bad when you consider the following:
- 1 player injured (who is one of our better defenders and would have been particularly helpful vs Mizzou's guard)
- some dubious foul calls
- Mizzou is 7-1 w/ their only loss @ Memphis who might be pretty good
ACC also doesn't look very good this yr. Duke and Clemson were the only ACC reps to win their match-up in the ACC/SEC Challenge.
isn't it just a little early to be comparing MM to Wilcox?
You're right. I shouldn't have posted it. I just couldn't resist.3146gabby said:
isn't it just a little early to be comparing MM to Wilcox?
On offense in basketball today, there is more emphasis in having players make the best decisions they can on the fly, rather than use pattern plays they have perfected with many repetitions in practice. Therefore, I feel the players, not the coach, should get more credit than in the distant past for successful offense, and more blame for an under performing offense.
The answer to the OP is neither.
Based on Ken Pom ratings, Madsen's Cal teams, last year and this year, are very balanced, only slightly better rated on offense than defense.
They just need to get better.
Based on Ken Pom ratings, Madsen's Cal teams, last year and this year, are very balanced, only slightly better rated on offense than defense.
They just need to get better.
Last year we had bad ooc losses to Montana State and UOP. So far we've avoided those, with a few ooc games remaining. I don't know if we have a defender this year on the level of Keonte Kennedy, but I hope our man defense improves as the season progresses. If we go to a lineup featuring Wilkinson, Andrej, and Blacksher on the court together we're going to have a height disadvantage but we should be quicker than the opposition. So why not extend the d, pressure the ball more, go for turnovers and avoid getting killed so often in the half court.
We need to assume the likelihood of OOC early season losses as long as Madsen has to bring in 6-10 portal guys every year. For years, Dana Altman has brought in a bunch of (pre-Portal) transfers who lost some early games but are a strong team by the end of the season. It's always going to take 5-10 games for a new bunch of players to gel into a team.HongKong_Bear said:
Last year we had bad ooc losses to Montana State and UOP. So far we've avoided those, with a few ooc games remaining. I don't know if we have a defender this year on the level of Keonte Kennedy, but I hope our man defense improves as the season progresses. If we go to a lineup featuring Wilkinson, Andrej, and Blacksher on the court together we're going to have a height disadvantage but we should be quicker than the opposition. So why not extend the d, pressure the ball more, go for turnovers and avoid getting killed so often in the half court.
You're much better than this...troll material.
Here's a better discussion: can they beat Stanford this week? They come in 7-2 with two losses to Cal Poly and Grand Canyon (who was in the tourney last year with Blacksher btw). This is the type of game Cal needs to win.
Here's a better discussion: can they beat Stanford this week? They come in 7-2 with two losses to Cal Poly and Grand Canyon (who was in the tourney last year with Blacksher btw). This is the type of game Cal needs to win.
HearstMining said:We need to assume the likelihood of OOC early season losses as long as Madsen has to bring in 6-10 portal guys every year. For years, Dana Altman has brought in a bunch of (pre-Portal) transfers who lost some early games but are a strong team by the end of the season. It's always going to take 5-10 games for a new bunch of players to gel into a team.HongKong_Bear said:
Last year we had bad ooc losses to Montana State and UOP. So far we've avoided those, with a few ooc games remaining. I don't know if we have a defender this year on the level of Keonte Kennedy, but I hope our man defense improves as the season progresses. If we go to a lineup featuring Wilkinson, Andrej, and Blacksher on the court together we're going to have a height disadvantage but we should be quicker than the opposition. So why not extend the d, pressure the ball more, go for turnovers and avoid getting killed so often in the half court.
Except everyone else is dealing with the Portal too. It is not like we are going up against veteran teams that have played together for years.
Early season, what matters is which coach is better at identifying his best players and having them plsy together effectively quickly.
To that extent, Madsen's "NBA" style is a better fit for the current era than that of his college coach and others who were/are more "system" oriented featuring set plays. There is just not enough time to install complicated systems and plays before the season starts.
At least you admit you didn't see the game. A pretty silly question if you did see the game (and even sillier if you didn't see the game).SFCityBear said:
Translated: The all-offense-no-defense coach, or the coach whose teams cannot-hold-onto-a-big-lead-in- the-second-half-coach?
PS. I didn't see the game.
Madsen is not perfect at X's and O's. And perhaps more flawed defensively than offensively, but he's not bad on either side of the ball, unlike a Sonny who was horrible defensively or a Wilcox who can't hire a good OC.
The zone didn't work too well Tuesday, but there were personnel issues, and foul trouble issues in part due to the home cooking, but in part due to poor defense. When the opposition shoots 38 FT's, things are not going right. The second half Missouri output was due to a combination of the zone not working, turnovers leading to easy transition buckets, too many fouls by the Bears that were properly called, too many fouls that should not have been called, and Missouri getting confidence and hitting their tough shots.
Madsen is so much better than Dykes or Wilcox. Not perfect. But better. And in terms of engaging with the fans/students/donors, 1000 times better than either.
Mark Madsen is the Mark Madsen of Cal basketball. He basically is dealing with a brand new team, and they are ahead of where I thought they would be at this point.
one day there will be a statue of Mark outside Haas Pavillionwifeisafurd said:
Mark Madsen is the Mark Madsen of Cal basketball. He basically is dealing with a brand new team, and they are ahead of where I thought they would be at this point.
Absolutely. But we have to find a way to start to attract and develop guys that are show-worthy. To me this is the biggest take away from our three losses - we just didn't have an answer to their NBA'possibles.wifeisafurd said:
Mark Madsen is the Mark Madsen of Cal basketball. He basically is dealing with a brand new team, and they are ahead of where I thought they would be at this point.
Take care of your Chicken
graguna said:one day there will be a statue of Mark outside Haas Pavillionwifeisafurd said:
Mark Madsen is the Mark Madsen of Cal basketball. He basically is dealing with a brand new team, and they are ahead of where I thought they would be at this point.
Not today
I didn't really see any surefire NBA talent in any of our losses besides maybe Raynaud (who right now is probably outside of the lottery or even 2nd round... he's so soft and easily exposed on defense). Some guys with NBA bodies, some with skills, some with athleticism, and we've got those guys on our roster too, but no one with the whole package.socaltownie said:Absolutely. But we have to find a way to start to attract and develop guys that are show-worthy. To me this is the biggest take away from our three losses - we just didn't have an answer to their NBA'possibles.wifeisafurd said:
Mark Madsen is the Mark Madsen of Cal basketball. He basically is dealing with a brand new team, and they are ahead of where I thought they would be at this point.
The biggest problem in my eyes continues to be poor individual and team defense. We are slow to rotate, not good at coming off screens, don't communicate well, double/trap at weird times leading to open 3's, etc.
I think most of us hope you are right.graguna said:one day there will be a statue of Mark outside Haas Pavillionwifeisafurd said:
Mark Madsen is the Mark Madsen of Cal basketball. He basically is dealing with a brand new team, and they are ahead of where I thought they would be at this point.
and it may be for a noble peace prize not a nattycalumnus said:graguna said:one day there will be a statue of Mark outside Haas Pavillionwifeisafurd said:
Mark Madsen is the Mark Madsen of Cal basketball. He basically is dealing with a brand new team, and they are ahead of where I thought they would be at this point.
Not todaY
concernedparent said:The biggest problem in my eyes continues to be poor individual and team defense. We are slow to rotate, not good at coming off screens, don't communicate well, double/trap at weird times leading to open 3's, etc.socaltownie said:Absolutely. But we have to find a way to start to attract and develop guys that are show-worthy. To me this is the biggest take away from our three losses - we just didn't have an answer to their NBA'possibles.wifeisafurd said:
Mark Madsen is the Mark Madsen of Cal basketball. He basically is dealing with a brand new team, and they are ahead of where I thought they would be at this point.
While I have concerns about the offense, I agree about the defense
Madsen is a class act.
I'm sorry but the two are nowhere close to equivalent.
Madsen defers to Amorrow and Adam for intricate matters and instead acts as a general should.
When he had the team introduce themselves and shake hands with fans and alumni after the scrimmage that meant the world to me and especially to my kids.
While I was peeved he wasn't present for the summer camp due to his Singapore trip I realize it was because he was fundraising and as it turned out my son made a lasting friendship with Wilkinson and others.
Even if he goes .500 this year I am extremely impressed by the way he runs the program and have full faith he will be successful as an added bonus.
Wilcox on the other hand can gtfo in my opinion.
I'm sorry but the two are nowhere close to equivalent.
Madsen defers to Amorrow and Adam for intricate matters and instead acts as a general should.
When he had the team introduce themselves and shake hands with fans and alumni after the scrimmage that meant the world to me and especially to my kids.
While I was peeved he wasn't present for the summer camp due to his Singapore trip I realize it was because he was fundraising and as it turned out my son made a lasting friendship with Wilkinson and others.
Even if he goes .500 this year I am extremely impressed by the way he runs the program and have full faith he will be successful as an added bonus.
Wilcox on the other hand can gtfo in my opinion.
I am just glad that our former MFer is no longer the coach.
CNHTH said:
Madsen is a class act.
I'm sorry but the two are nowhere close to equivalent.
Madsen defers to Amorrow and Adam for intricate matters and instead acts as a general should.
When he had the team introduce themselves and shake hands with fans and alumni after the scrimmage that meant the world to me and especially to my kids.
While I was peeved he wasn't present for the summer camp due to his Singapore trip I realize it was because he was fundraising and as it turned out my son made a lasting friendship with Wilkinson and others.
Even if he goes .500 this year I am extremely impressed by the way he runs the program and have full faith he will be successful as an added bonus.
Wilcox on the other hand can gtfo in my opinion.
After losing to Cornell at home, it is obvious that Madsen and his present-and-future staff have some issues to figure out concerning winning basketball. I'd be curious to know what he is really thinking right now.
Madsen is forging his own trail on the road to joining that elite club of bad Cal head coaches! He's got 21 more games to get 7+ more wins to "improve" on the 13 from last year. Can he pull it off?SFCityBear said:
Translated: The all-offense-no-defense coach, or the coach whose teams cannot-hold-onto-a-big-lead-in- the-second-half-coach?
PS. I didn't see the game.
I only watched the ~10 minute condensed video on YouTube but two things stood out:
- Andrej, Blackshur, and Wilkinson clearly got schooled on defense and when that happens, the rest of the team can't compensate.
- The freelance style of offense only works when you either have extraordinary athletes, or players know how to move without the ball such that they create good options for the ballhandler (a la The Warriors). Neither is the case with Cal. Blackshur doesn't run things as well as I hoped but that's just a small part of the problem.
The good news was that Mark took the blame for this poor showing. As a defensive minded player it sure looked like he was out coached. Nothing looked like a competitive team let alone one who can compete in the ACC!
I still think he is the right guy. He better recruit well!
I still think he is the right guy. He better recruit well!
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