Jeff82 said:

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On offense, he's totally focused on using the screen at the top of the key to get the ballhandler around his man, then allowing him to create by driving, pulling up or finding the open man when the defense collapses. There's not much emphasis on guys moving without the ball, screening away from the ball, etc. That may not be the preferred approach among the Newell-inspired fans here, but maybe it's what Madsen thinks he can do with this group. In this era an offense with off the ball movement is often triggered, not by the point guard., but by a post player who gets the ball at the top of the key and faces the defender, a la Sean Marks, Amit Tamir or Ryan Anderson. I doubt Sissoko or Dort have the passing ability to do that, and their lack of offensive skills means their man will probably just drop off and dare them to shoot. Assuming my assessment of this is correct, Madsen needs to play Wilkinson more and Blackshear less. With Wilkinson and Stojakovich in the game together, the defense can't focus on just one of them, and the other will have openings to score.

On defense, it looks like he's trying to get the defender to fight through the screen for the ballhandler, but our guys are not able to do that. Rather than stepping up to challenge the ballhandler, both Sissoko and Dort are dropping back, permitting easy scores in the paint. Since they look to be equivalent players to me, I would treat the primary asset of our two big men as the 10 fouls they collectively can commit, and have them confront the ballhandler more aggressivlely, leveling him once on the drive to make him think twice about driving again. That approach also makes sense now that we're in the ACC, which allows much more contact than the Pac 10 zebras did.

I'm assuming that Madsen's first comment in the locker room was that that was an easy win, if the team had played all 40 minutes with the same intensity they played the last 15. That's been an issue all year.

Also, the portal probably affects some of this. Easy for me to say that Wilkinson should get Blackshear's minutes, but it's probably an issue when a kid has come from the portal expecting to play. Makes keeping the full locker room happy more difficult. That's why Madsen has to get more longer-term recruits so we're not totally depending on rebuilding each year.

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Jeff82 said:

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That may not be the preferred approach among the Newell-inspired fans here, but maybe it's what Madsen thinks he can do with this group.

I think Madsen sold the players on a pro-style offense so that is what he runs. I also think that is what he knows. He can't teach what he doesn't know. I would prefer more off-ball movement but don't really care what the system is so long as it works. Ours works inconsistently and doesn't work for long stretches in just about every game.

In this era an offense with off the ball movement is often triggered, not by the point guard., but by a post player who gets the ball at the top of the key and faces the defender, a la Sean Marks, Amit Tamir or Ryan Anderson. I doubt Sissoko or Dort have the passing ability to do that, and their lack of offensive skills means their man will probably just drop off and dare them to shoot.

You are exactly right, which is why I don't think the current system works consistently. If Sissoko or Dort could shoot, then this system would really draw the big man out to defend and open things up. But they can't. Madsen and staff are not putting our players in a position to succeed.

On defense, it looks like he's trying to get the defender to fight through the screen for the ballhandler, but our guys are not able to do that. Rather than stepping up to challenge the ballhandler, both Sissoko and Dort are dropping back, permitting easy scores in the paint. Since they look to be equivalent players to me, I would treat the primary asset of our two big men as the 10 fouls they collectively can commit, and have them confront the ballhandler more aggressivlely, leveling him once on the drive to make him think twice about driving again. That approach also makes sense now that we're in the ACC, which allows much more contact than the Pac 10 zebras did.

Maybe just try a different strategy since the one we have been employing isn't working. I think Madsen thought he solved the problem against Virginia. Problem is, Virginia didn't have bigs who were good offensively so just about any defense would work. Bottom line, he didn't solve the problem with his "adjustments."

Also, the portal probably affects some of this. Easy for me to say that Wilkinson should get Blackshear's minutes, but it's probably an issue when a kid has come from the portal expecting to play. Makes keeping the full locker room happy more difficult. That's why Madsen has to get more longer-term recruits so we're not totally depending on rebuilding each year.

If the goal is to win, it is pretty f'ing clear Wilkinson needs to play more and Blacksher needs to play less (if at all).

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socaltownie said:

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What SHOULD be happening is either a bunch more aggression in fighting through the screen OR Sissko/Dort come out and hedge the On-ball screen hard _AND_ (and this is key), another big rotates over to defend the pick and roll. It is this off ball switch that we haven't done well all year . Now madsen knows this (it is pretty simply defense that is taught in HS) but near as I can tell the players simply are not doing it. My current explanation is players are not being held accountable. Monty would flip out about this. In the end Madsen needs to stop being nice and offer some tough love because it is unacceptable to allow a team to shoot 60% plus on the road - especially when those makes are just all really easy.

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Jeff82 said:

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Also, the portal probably affects some of this. Easy for me to say that Wilkinson should get Blackshear's minutes, but it's probably an issue when a kid has come from the portal expecting to play. Makes keeping the full locker room happy more difficult. That's why Madsen has to get more longer-term recruits so we're not totally depending on rebuilding each year.

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Bear8995 said:

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Jeff82 said:

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That may not be the preferred approach among the Newell-inspired fans here, but maybe it's what Madsen thinks he can do with this group.

I think Madsen sold the players on a pro-style offense so that is what he runs. I also think that is what he knows. He can't teach what he doesn't know. I would prefer more off-ball movement but don't really care what the system is so long as it works. Ours works inconsistently and doesn't work for long stretches in just about every game.

In this era an offense with off the ball movement is often triggered, not by the point guard., but by a post player who gets the ball at the top of the key and faces the defender, a la Sean Marks, Amit Tamir or Ryan Anderson. I doubt Sissoko or Dort have the passing ability to do that, and their lack of offensive skills means their man will probably just drop off and dare them to shoot.

You are exactly right, which is why I don't think the current system works consistently. If Sissoko or Dort could shoot, then this system would really draw the big man out to defend and open things up. But they can't. Madsen and staff are not putting our players in a position to succeed.

On defense, it looks like he's trying to get the defender to fight through the screen for the ballhandler, but our guys are not able to do that. Rather than stepping up to challenge the ballhandler, both Sissoko and Dort are dropping back, permitting easy scores in the paint. Since they look to be equivalent players to me, I would treat the primary asset of our two big men as the 10 fouls they collectively can commit, and have them confront the ballhandler more aggressivlely, leveling him once on the drive to make him think twice about driving again. That approach also makes sense now that we're in the ACC, which allows much more contact than the Pac 10 zebras did.

Maybe just try a different strategy since the one we have been employing isn't working. I think Madsen thought he solved the problem against Virginia. Problem is, Virginia didn't have bigs who were good offensively so just about any defense would work. Bottom line, he didn't solve the problem with his "adjustments."

Also, the portal probably affects some of this. Easy for me to say that Wilkinson should get Blackshear's minutes, but it's probably an issue when a kid has come from the portal expecting to play. Makes keeping the full locker room happy more difficult. That's why Madsen has to get more longer-term recruits so we're not totally depending on rebuilding each year.

If the goal is to win, it is pretty f'ing clear Wilkinson needs to play more and Blacksher needs to play less (if at all).

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This team looks headed for a bottom 4 finish in conference, if not bottom 2. Don't really care if the problem is talent, scheme, injuries, NIL, the portal, etc. That is simply not good enough.

I like the fact that he is so positive. The problem is, sometimes positive people like him start believing their own BS. I hear his comments after the game like Blacksher is playing well and that Stojakovic is a great defender. Really? I get not calling out a player in a press conference but statements like those tell me he believes his own BS or is completely clueless. How can he fix the issues if he can't see them? That doesn't inspire confidence that he can turn this program around, this season, next season or anytime in the near future.

Regardless of scheme, this is the 2nd season in a row where there appears to be a team chemistry problem. One season? ok. It happens even with the best of coaches. But 2 in a row is the beginning of a very bad pattern, especially for a coach whose strength is supposed to be building team chemistry. Celestine and Rodney Brown Jr. seem to be doing better in their new environments. Just sayin'.

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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... This is the recurring issue of our defense. Too many times Sissoko and Dort take one token step out and then retreat. Since they're not super tall, but reasonably athletic, if they are going to switch they might as well come all the way out on the ball handler and be as aggressive as possible. Playing it "half way" accomplishes nothing. If ever there was a season that we could have used Devon Hardin, this is the one.

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stu said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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... This is the recurring issue of our defense. Too many times Sissoko and Dort take one token step out and then retreat. Since they're not super tall, but reasonably athletic, if they are going to switch they might as well come all the way out on the ball handler and be as aggressive as possible. Playing it "half way" accomplishes nothing. If ever there was a season that we could have used Devon Hardin, this is the one.

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How about Rod Benson?

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Jeff82 said:

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Easy for me to say that Wilkinson should get Blackshear's minutes, but it's probably an issue when a kid has come from the portal expecting to play. Makes keeping the full locker room happy more difficult. That's why Madsen has to get more longer-term recruits so we're not totally depending on rebuilding each year.

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barsad said:

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I wasn't saying that about Jovan specifically, I was responding to what Jeff said about kids from the portal (like Jovan) expecting to play, and how that could be a factor for Madsen benching someone or not. That absolutely should not be a factor, so I hope that is not entering Madsen's thinking on this.

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KoreAmBear said:

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Can someone share the +/- for those that play significant minutes?

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calbearinamaze said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Can someone share the +/- for those that play significant minutes?

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2024-25 California Golden Bears Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Last column in Advanced (bottom) table.

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Harky4 said:

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+/- can be deceiving because those ratings for a particular player can vary depending upon who his on-court teammates might be and what time of the game it is (i.e., crunch time versus garbage time). But those +/- stats for as many games as we have played now have meaning for our regular rotation players that should not be ignored. In the ugly home loss against V Tech, a no very good team, Blacksher was -15 compared to Wilkinson's +6. Hopefully those glaring stats will give Mark a reason to switch up his failing starting lineup to give us a chance at the Dean Dome tonight (yes, we are 13.5 underdogs). My worst fear (and hopefully an inaccurate one) is that Mark is bullheaded as the Mad Dog who just is going to try to use his brut force to make things happen in a "my way or the highway" fashion

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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^
Honestly, this whole thing about - is Wilikinson a "point guard"? is getting really tiresome. We all watched the second half of the Virginia Tech game. Wilkinson led the comeback, whether he was playing "point guard" or something else was irrelevant. For us to have the best results he needs to be in the game as much as possible. I mean, the guy can drive, he can shoot, he's a good defender. So yes, let's just call him the point guard and roll with it.

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calumnus said:

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Wilkinson should be a starter and we should maximize his minutes. Campbell and Blacksher need to be coming off the bench/have their minutes minimized.

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Harky4 said:

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Madsen now needs to be building for the future. Our future is Andrej, JOJ, Jeremiah, DJ and BJ (perhaps Spencer as a reserve), so give them heavy minutes to mature and show that we value their presence.. Blacksher is a grad who thank God will be gone after this lost season (playing him now is beyond stupid and disrespectful to Jeremiah).

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socaltownie said:

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"Sissoko and Dort take one token step out and then retreat."

I would really have to take break down film (and somehow figure out how to record these games on my streaming app ;-). But this is what I THINK is going on...


When we are going bad is the action where the on-ball screen is made at top of the key. The guy getting screen goes over. The guy defending the screen (Sissko/Dort usually - sometimes one of our "forwards") as you says takes a token stope to hedge but then stays to defend the pick and roll. Their Ball handler, now with an advantage, simply dribbles to the free throw line where they make an easy pull up floater.

What SHOULD be happening is either a bunch more aggression in fighting through the screen OR Sissko/Dort come out and hedge the On-ball screen hard _AND_ (and this is key), another big rotates over to defend the pick and roll. It is this off ball switch that we haven't done well all year . Now madsen knows this (it is pretty simply defense that is taught in HS) but near as I can tell the players simply are not doing it. My current explanation is players are not being held accountable. Monty would flip out about this. In the end Madsen needs to stop being nice and offer some tough love because it is unacceptable to allow a team to shoot 60% plus on the road - especially when those makes are just all really easy.

BTW - I would say that one thing we are REALLY missing (and it is the action that gives the bears fits) is a stretch 5. You can see it in so many of our games where on that high ballscreen action the guy setting the screen WON"T roll but floats out back out on the perimeter after the ball screen. When Dort/Sisko are rim protecting the screener floats out to his spot for the three and then the ball is kicked back. The Furd guy burned up repeatedly with that action.

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Harky4 said:

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BeachedBear, having been to multiple practices and having been imbedded with the team on its trip to Nashville to play Vandy (attending all of the film and scouting sessions plus practices there), I felt that our coaches were very thorough in their preparation and making excellent presentations (Mark was not in Nashville to stay home for his 5th child's birth, and Maz took over as the HC). Nevertheless, when it comes to game time, our players are not executing what they have been told to do (albeit their failure to make open shots is not something that truly is coachable). So, the question becomes why are our players not executing. Could it be that the schemes that Mark is teaching are not appropriate for our players? Who knows, because I do not !

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socaltownie said:

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We are also really short at the four and we are not good shooting from 3. Sometime the pundits who make preseason predictions are right about lack.of talent

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