HoopDreams said:

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Sissoko maybe our MVP

Defends, rebounds, scores… watch how the players react to him….i think he's the team leader

Very tough to sign good bigs, and Sissoko is a very good big

I don't get it… last year we had a strong scoring center who could hit 3s, and was an elite rebounder, but people complained about his defense

Cal is very fortunate to have two good centers last two seasons

barsad said:

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HoopDreams said:

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yes, he can improve his offensive moves, but so far he hasn't learned the footwork

however you are right that Madsen is the perfect coach for him as Mark didn't have an NBA career from his athleticism

some players can quickly learn these advanced moves, and then use them naturally, but most need to learn these skills over years before they can use effectively in games.

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Sissoko is 24 years old with 4+ years of Div 1 experience, almost all of that time playing for one of the best coaches in NCAA history.
So let's not group him in with the 18-year-old freshmen who might still need time to develop moves. He's learned as much as he possibly can, and Madsen should have taken his limitations into account before he decided he was our No. 1 big man.
I would much rather have a younger guy with more eligibility and the ability to learn how to score when he's further than dunk-range. That takes nothing away from his contributions on blocks, rebounds, etc. we just need to pick better next year. Dort is kind of the same problem if he's No. 1 next year, no moves, all size and blocks.

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Hoop, go easy on barsad. I think I understand what he is trying to get across. We, as you state, have had two serviceable centers the last two years each with a major limitation (one offensive, one defensive). They both have/had their positive attributes but not the total package.

As I have indicated here, I suffer horribly in BB having G'town my other team. They had a player coach that didn't work, and centers who were serviceable, but not the complete package. Now, that problem has been solved with Thomas Sorber. Watch his highlights or just game day production. Include not only blocks, hustle, good defense, but solid moves around the bucket and very good offense. As an 18 year old freshman he is standing up well to the best in the Big East. Find us a Thomas Sorber is what barsad is suggesting, if I am correct. Not easy, but wow.

We need to aspire to be as good as Santa Clara and Oregon State, who both beat the team previously known as # 16 this week.

concernedparent said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Sissoko maybe our MVP

Defends, rebounds, scores… watch how the players react to him….i think he's the team leader

Very tough to sign good bigs, and Sissoko is a very good big

I don't get it… last year we had a strong scoring center who could hit 3s, and was an elite rebounder, but people complained about his defense

Cal is very fortunate to have two good centers last two seasons

barsad said:

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HoopDreams said:

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yes, he can improve his offensive moves, but so far he hasn't learned the footwork

however you are right that Madsen is the perfect coach for him as Mark didn't have an NBA career from his athleticism

some players can quickly learn these advanced moves, and then use them naturally, but most need to learn these skills over years before they can use effectively in games.

---

Sissoko is 24 years old with 4+ years of Div 1 experience, almost all of that time playing for one of the best coaches in NCAA history.
So let's not group him in with the 18-year-old freshmen who might still need time to develop moves. He's learned as much as he possibly can, and Madsen should have taken his limitations into account before he decided he was our No. 1 big man.
I would much rather have a younger guy with more eligibility and the ability to learn how to score when he's further than dunk-range. That takes nothing away from his contributions on blocks, rebounds, etc. we just need to pick better next year. Dort is kind of the same problem if he's No. 1 next year, no moves, all size and blocks.

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Obviously I'd rather have both but I'd 100% rather have a strong defense only post than an offensive only post player. Rim protection and rebounding is more important than post offense, ESPECIALLY on a team with so many scorers and that plays 4 out. Mady is a bright spot and wish he had another year.

Point of attack defense and rotations, and hero ball offense are the big problems with this team.

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Ah, our new favorite cliche. Reality is, when the scope of the offense that the coach gives to the team is restricted to just a weave and on-ball screens, (nothing much else), "hero ball offense" is exactly what you're going to see. It's not the cause, it's the result that comes based from what our offense is instructed to do.

You young 'uns missed the days of Lampley Ball

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Basic conclusion of all of this:

At this point, bringing in a top notch center for next year, (via transfer portal or recruit), should be the highest priority on Madsen's list. Without that, this team (and program) will not have the ability to be signifcant. That's the bottom line.

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Always nice to have a top notch center, but I don't think that center has been our weakness, neither this year, nor last. We need shooters and perimeter defenders, as well. Plus a 4 that compliments whoever's playing center. And then what about point guard? Wilkinson is a great talent, but if he's going to play the point, he has a way to go in terms of facilitating.

Hopefully Dort gets even better and, yes, we'll need another big. Maybe Curtis earns minutes: he's got a nice looking outside shot.

Big C said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Basic conclusion of all of this:

At this point, bringing in a top notch center for next year, (via transfer portal or recruit), should be the highest priority on Madsen's list. Without that, this team (and program) will not have the ability to be signifcant. That's the bottom line.

---

Always nice to have a top notch center, but I don't think that center has been our weakness, neither this year, nor last. We need shooters and perimeter defenders, as well. Plus a 4 that compliments whoever's playing center. And then what about point guard? Wilkinson is a great talent, but if he's going to play the point, he has a way to go in terms of facilitating.

Hopefully Dort gets even better and, yes, we'll need another big. Maybe Curtis earns minutes: he's got a nice looking outside shot.

---

While I agree with you, usually a strong and long big man defender makes the perimeter defenders better. I'm a big fan of Mady's effort, and often he produces good results. Down the road, I hope we can bring in a guy with Mady's skill that has a little more length. Sometimes that difference between a 6-11 guy and a 6-9 guy comes into play. Good old Yogi Stewart comes to mind.

JimSox said:

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Can NC State miss all their threes forever?
.

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I asked this question at halftime. Answer: Yes!
They made their first attempt of the game then never made another. Good defense by the Bears or just good luck???

JimSox said:

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JimSox said:

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Can NC State miss all their threes forever?
.

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I asked this question at halftime. Answer: Yes!
They made their first attempt of the game then never made another. Good defense by the Bears or just good luck???

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I just checked 3 point attempts. Out of 354 Division 1 teams, NC State is at #297. (Even we come in at #202.)

So does that answer your question?

HoopDreams said:

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Cal is very fortunate to have two good centers last two seasons

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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We, as you state, have had two serviceable centers the last two years each with a major limitation (one offensive, one defensive).

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Well, it's one or the other, good or serviceable, but not both. Good centers would make the team they play on do better overall. They would be "good" (aka starters on tournament-worthy Div 1 teams of any kind). Serviceable means they do their jobs, don't suck too badly, and get OK numbers on both offense and defense.
We have to stop seeing mediocrity as the norm at Cal. There's no way Mady would start as center among the top 5 teams in the ACC. I'm not knocking him or past centers, just stating reality. I appreciate their effort, I just want to see improvement year to year. If we settle for Dort next year nothing will change.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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JimSox said:

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JimSox said:

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Can NC State miss all their threes forever?
.

---

I asked this question at halftime. Answer: Yes!
They made their first attempt of the game then never made another. Good defense by the Bears or just good luck???

---

I just checked 3 point attempts. Out of 354 Division 1 teams, NC State is at #297. (Even we come in at #202.)

So does that answer your question?

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Indeed it does!!

barsad said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Cal is very fortunate to have two good centers last two seasons

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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We, as you state, have had two serviceable centers the last two years each with a major limitation (one offensive, one defensive).

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Well, it's one or the other, good or serviceable, but not both. Good centers would make the team they play on do better overall. They would be "good" (aka starters on tournament-worthy Div 1 teams of any kind). Serviceable means they do their jobs, don't suck too badly, and get OK numbers on both offense and defense.
We have to stop seeing mediocrity as the norm at Cal. There's no way Mady would start as center among the top 5 teams in the ACC. I'm not knocking him or past centers, just stating reality. I appreciate their effort, I just want to see improvement year to year. If we settle for Dort next year nothing will change

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Pretty sure Mich St was a tournament-worthy Div 1 team with Sissoko starting at center.

If you call playing 15 min a game starting, sure, I guess so.

Agree with you 100% on this HoopDreams. It's really hard to find a center especially in college that is a great rim protector and scorer. The production Daws gave us last year is missed badly and Sissoko has basically filled his void. Sissoko is a rim protector who has slowly been giving us more production in scoring which has been huge.

just hit me that mark madsen is 5 wins away from beating last year's win total.

seems pretty possible from here on out

— Not Uluave (@hayden_smith88) January 19, 2025

Let me remind all of you, we were never good enough to make the tourney because our team is not as talented as last years and yet, maddog has us 5 wins away from another improvement. It took Kyle Smith 4 years to take his WSU team to the tourney. Maddog has us on track next year to go into the tournament.

Bottom line here is we have great players to build on next year (Stojakovic, Omot, Campbell, Rytis, Ola-Joseph, Wilkinson, Dort, Mahoney, Curtis, and Pavlovic). Leaves us with 3 schollies to hand out next year and that will go to a Top Tier Point Guard and Center plus a 3 point specialist.

It's pretty simple, last year was to rejuvenate the program and this is the first real year of the rebuild. The team is limited this year, but Maddog has done a good job with the players he has.

I will be pleasantly shocked if Andrej returns to Cal next year

Your list of players we can build on next year... for one reason or another, I'd be shocked if they all came back.

But I get your overall point and it's a good one.

According to Peja and Andrej's comments from last offseason, he's in no rush and wants to stay somewhere where he can develop.

Even if he leaves, he's replacable

Johnfox said:

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According to Peja and Andrej's comments from last offseason, he's in no rush and wants to stay somewhere where he can develop.

Even if he leaves, he's replacable

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Andrej has the potential to be first team all ACC next year and a potential first rounder. He's not that replaceable.

Does DJ have another year of eligibility? I thought this year was it.

ncbears said:

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You young 'uns missed the days of Lampley Ball

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You middle agers missed the days of Leonard Taylor.

Johnfox said:

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just hit me that mark madsen is 5 wins away from beating last year's win total.

seems pretty possible from here on out

— Not Uluave (@hayden_smith88) January 19, 2025

Let me remind all of you, we were never good enough to make the tourney because our team is not as talented as last years and yet, maddog has us 5 wins away from another improvement. It took Kyle Smith 4 years to take his WSU team to the tourney. Maddog has us on track next year to go into the tournament.

Bottom line here is we have great players to build on next year (Stojakovic, Omot, Campbell, Rytis, Ola-Joseph, Wilkinson, Dort, Mahoney, Curtis, and Pavlovic). Leaves us with 3 schollies to hand out next year and that will go to a Top Tier Point Guard and Center plus a 3 point specialist.

It's pretty simple, last year was to rejuvenate the program and this is the first real year of the rebuild. The team is limited this year, but Maddog has done a good job with the players he has.

---

I also think we can get to 14 wins, which would be a positive for the program.
However, those 3 scholarships (let's call it 6 accounting for NIL attrition), will have to really hit the mark (including a center to play in front of Dort) for a tournament berth.
Yes, finding centers is hard. That's why Madsen gets paid $2.6 mil guaranteed for 6 years, to accomplish hard things. One of his selling points was that as an NBA big man himself he could recruit at that position. Looking forward to seeing that next year.

MAXIME. RAYNAUD. 🇫🇷✊🏻

• 25 PTS
• 13 REB
• 4 BLK

In a game in which Stanford only had 7 3PM, Raynaud knocked down 3 of them. Despite having provide outside shooting, Raynaud is still an aggressive & efficient finisher inside. Workhorse versatility. 😤pic.twitter.com/iWC18iRkk5

— Conrado Pascual (@CP3_777) January 18, 2025

this is what a good center looks like. madsen needs to recruit a big like this next season

Johnfox said:

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MAXIME. RAYNAUD. 🇫🇷✊🏻

• 25 PTS
• 13 REB
• 4 BLK

In a game in which Stanford only had 7 3PM, Raynaud knocked down 3 of them. Despite having provide outside shooting, Raynaud is still an aggressive & efficient finisher inside. Workhorse versatility. 😤pic.twitter.com/iWC18iRkk5

— Conrado Pascual (@CP3_777) January 18, 2025

this is what a good center looks like. madsen needs to recruit a big like this next season

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Easy.

bearister said:

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Bears vs Chris Washburn's alma mater. Two questions:

1. Is he a Top 5 Worst # 3 Overall Pick of All Time? and

2. Does he hold the record for the shortest NBA career of a # 3 overall pick?

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Our firm was trying to do some business with the Warriors and I ended up at luncheon meeting with their execs that for some reason Washburn also attended. I left the meeting wondering how he learned to tie his shoes. Why you would draft someone like that is beyond me.

Alkiadt said:

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ncbears said:

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You young 'uns missed the days of Lampley Ball

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You middle agers missed the days of Leonard Taylor.

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And Mark McNamara.

Big C said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Basic conclusion of all of this:

At this point, bringing in a top notch center for next year, (via transfer portal or recruit), should be the highest priority on Madsen's list. Without that, this team (and program) will not have the ability to be signifcant. That's the bottom line.

---

Always nice to have a top notch center, but I don't think that center has been our weakness, neither this year, nor last. We need shooters and perimeter defenders, as well. Plus a 4 that compliments whoever's playing center. And then what about point guard? Wilkinson is a great talent, but if he's going to play the point, he has a way to go in terms of facilitating.

Hopefully Dort gets even better and, yes, we'll need another big. Maybe Curtis earns minutes: he's got a nice looking outside shot.

---

IMHO a top-notch center is the difference between good and great. But first we need to become good, which I think requires a top-notch PG more than anything else.

Johnfox said:

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MAXIME. RAYNAUD. 🇫🇷✊🏻

• 25 PTS
• 13 REB
• 4 BLK

In a game in which Stanford only had 7 3PM, Raynaud knocked down 3 of them. Despite having provide outside shooting, Raynaud is still an aggressive & efficient finisher inside. Workhorse versatility. 😤pic.twitter.com/iWC18iRkk5

— Conrado Pascual (@CP3_777) January 18, 2025

this is what a good center looks like. madsen needs to recruit a big like this next season

---

do you think it's easier to recruit to UNC than to Cal?

do you think UNC basketball has a larger NIL war chest than Cal?

recruiting 6-10 / 6-11 centers that can score, shoot, rebound and defend is not an easy task ... how many centers like that has Cal recruited in the last 20 years?

Powe and ???

Have no idea what you mean by that last post, Hoop.
You know Raynaud plays for Stanford, right? If he had followed his friend Andrej across the Bay, Cal would have 14 wins right now.
Can we recruit as well as the Furd, which beat UNC yesterday? Absolutely.
Can we recruit as well as Santa Clara, which retained all their guys from last year and beat Gonzaga yesterday? Absolutely.
Enough of this defeatism!

stu said:

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Alkiadt said:

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ncbears said:

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You young 'uns missed the days of Lampley Ball

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You middle agers missed the days of Leonard Taylor.

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And Mark McNamara.

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Ok are we talking about ball hogs or all time great cal bigs? Cause I'm pretty sure the OP was talking about the former

HoopDreams said:

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Johnfox said:

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MAXIME. RAYNAUD. 🇫🇷✊🏻

• 25 PTS
• 13 REB
• 4 BLK

In a game in which Stanford only had 7 3PM, Raynaud knocked down 3 of them. Despite having provide outside shooting, Raynaud is still an aggressive & efficient finisher inside. Workhorse versatility. 😤pic.twitter.com/iWC18iRkk5

— Conrado Pascual (@CP3_777) January 18, 2025

this is what a good center looks like. madsen needs to recruit a big like this next season

---

do you think it's easier to recruit to UNC than to Cal?

do you think UNC basketball has a larger NIL war chest than Cal?

recruiting 6-10 / 6-11 centers that can score, shoot, rebound and defend is not an easy task ... how many centers like that has Cal recruited in the last 20 years?

Powe and ???

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Sorry to correct you HD, but Leon was not a center. You might want to brush up on your Cal BB history.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Johnfox said:

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MAXIME. RAYNAUD. 🇫🇷✊🏻

• 25 PTS
• 13 REB
• 4 BLK

In a game in which Stanford only had 7 3PM, Raynaud knocked down 3 of them. Despite having provide outside shooting, Raynaud is still an aggressive & efficient finisher inside. Workhorse versatility. 😤pic.twitter.com/iWC18iRkk5

— Conrado Pascual (@CP3_777) January 18, 2025

this is what a good center looks like. madsen needs to recruit a big like this next season

---

do you think it's easier to recruit to UNC than to Cal?

do you think UNC basketball has a larger NIL war chest than Cal?

recruiting 6-10 / 6-11 centers that can score, shoot, rebound and defend is not an easy task ... how many centers like that has Cal recruited in the last 20 years?

Powe and ???

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Sorry to correct you HD, but Leon was not a center. You might want to brush up on your Cal BB history.

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Wasn't there some kid from o'dowd who was supposedly the top center in the country here within the last decade? He got conned.

ducky23 said:

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stu said:

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Alkiadt said:

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ncbears said:

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You young 'uns missed the days of Lampley Ball

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You middle agers missed the days of Leonard Taylor.

---

And Mark McNamara.

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Ok are we talking about ball hogs or all time great cal bigs? Cause I'm pretty sure the OP was talking about the former

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I remember McNamara being the focus of the offense and seldom if ever passing the ball after he got it. But when you're shooting 70% that might not be a bad idea.

> And Mark McNamara.

MM passed at 60. thanks for a reminder of his good old days..
espn > McNamara played two seasons at Cal after transferring from Santa Clara. He was voted first-team All-Pac-10 for the Bears after leading the conference in scoring, rebounding and field goal percentage as a senior in the 1981-82 season.

also..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_McNamara