DWM81 said:

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Need a pass 1st 1, retain Wilkinson, replace at least 2 Staff (1 to help coach offense, 1 to help coach defense), and 2-3 shooters. This team needs a lot of help. Hard to watch...

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Yeah - we saw it last night _AGAIN_

Furd sagged off Dort/Monty and often the 4. Essentially clogged the lane. Then we seem INCAPABLE of running an effective high ball screen (really it is an AWFUL part of Dort's game).. With limited spacing we are easy to defend. Did start to penetrate in the second half - and that played to a game where it looked like we were back with Pac12 refs.

Right now this team is less than the sum of its parts.

socaltownie said:

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DWM81 said:

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Need a pass 1st 1, retain Wilkinson, replace at least 2 Staff (1 to help coach offense, 1 to help coach defense), and 2-3 shooters. This team needs a lot of help. Hard to watch...

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Yeah - we saw it last night _AGAIN_

Furd sagged off Dort/Monty and often the 4. Essentially clogged the lane. Then we seem INCAPABLE of running an effective high ball screen (really it is an AWFUL part of Dort's game).. With limited spacing we are easy to defend. Did start to penetrate in the second half - and that played to a game where it looked like we were back with Pac12 refs.

Right now this team is less than the sum of its parts.

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Most college teams defend the paint and/or the perimeter. Monty was masterful in prepping his team to run ALOT of offense through the mid range in a rather unique way for College Bball. Someone (probably him) once explained that it requires a combination of talent, time and practice to make effective and that it doesn't work at High School level or NBA level (due to talent levels). More importantly, the changes to MBB pretty much ended its effectiveness when Monty retired.

For those that want to see, check out Monty's teams and watch players like Harper Kamp and Jamal Boykin work offense 8-10 feet away from the basket. Its about spacing and movement and using what the defense gives you. For those that dig X's and O's, it is pretty impressive.

How often this season have we gotten way behind then came back but not far enough?

stu said:

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How often this season have we gotten way behind then came back but not far enough?

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Do you think maybe it's because we don't have the right players starting? Do you think?

ducky23 said:

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JimSox said:

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calbearinamaze said:

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Dort has been great!

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But that bad foul on Reynaud at the end. Too bad.

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According to some here, that was a smart foul

(Yes yes I know different time situation, but still…)

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There's no "but still…." You are correct, ducky, that would have been a smart foul if we were aggressively going for a steal and Raynaud shoots under 65% free throws like most of the Ga. Tech team. Unfortunately Raynaud shoots 78%. Not sure why you would ignore that fact and say it's the same as the Ga Tech situation.

Speaking of free throws, the box score screams the reason we lost, that has nothing to do with unlucky rim rolls or who started. 65% free throw shooting means you let several crucial points just vaporize. We might not have been playing from behind late in the game if we didn't let down on that front. In most other stats we were comparably bad to Stanfurd, though the low assists (4 vs 11 for Furd) also hurt.

stu said:

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How often this season have we gotten way behind then came back but not far enough?

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More than a few. The problem I see with the dynamic is it takes a lot of energy climbing out of the hole and when you finally get to level ground you have shot your wad and the other team doesn't have to do a whole lot to close the deal in the last couple of minutes against a gassed team.

A positive takeaway yesterday was for gamblers…

"BEARS COVERED AND PAID. CHEERS!"

ducky23 said:

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…different…, but still…

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LOL

Harky4 said:

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13 turnovers versus only 4 assists is ugly and says that the ball is sticking to players who offensively are 1 on 1 oriented. 4 for 14 shooting from 3 point land also is ugly and defines our lack of perimeter shooting.. The former could be cleaned up by coaching; the later can be cleaned up only by recruiting. IMO our core players, even if they return, are not enough to make us a 50% W team in the ACC next season.

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Agree that we need a reset to get over .500. I'm not too worried that the roster looks the same next year, the system makes that impossible for mid-tier teams. But I do think JW and Andrej have to be there to build around. In a weird way a reset makes the beginning of the season more exciting because there's a new team dynamic to evaluate. On the other hand there's a 50-50 shot at backsliding… but in Madsen I Trust. For now.

What I've noticed: When we do something good this season, besides scoring, the player that enabled it to happen is usually either Rytis or Mady.

bearsandgiants said:

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Madsen outcoached his opponent.

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Huh? 1) We lost. 2) We were down 17 at one point with Madsen coaching. 3) See #1.

Reynaud was the best player on the floor, sure. And we definitely need more talent. But to claim Madsen outcoached Smith? Ridiculous. Sorry. It just is.

Bear8995 said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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Madsen outcoached his opponent.

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Huh? 1) We lost. 2) We were down 17 at one point with Madsen coaching. 3) See #1.

Reynaud was the best player on the floor, sure. And we definitely need more talent. But to claim Madsen outcoached Smith? Ridiculous. Sorry. It just is.

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The familiar theme has become the biggest flaw of Madsen's coaching is starting Blacksher and giving him too much leeway when he's not producing. Sure, there's only 4 games left, but this issue should be fixed immediately.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Bear8995 said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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Madsen outcoached his opponent.

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Huh? 1) We lost. 2) We were down 17 at one point with Madsen coaching. 3) See #1.

Reynaud was the best player on the floor, sure. And we definitely need more talent. But to claim Madsen outcoached Smith? Ridiculous. Sorry. It just is.

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The familiar theme has become the biggest flaw of Madsen's coaching is starting Blacksher and giving him too much leeway when he's not producing. Sure, there's only 4 games left, but this issue should be fixed immediately.

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Blacksher has been disappointing during the ACC. He is not running the offense well partly because he dribbles too much. I've said before that he is probably our best 3 point shooter when open, but he rarely gets a clean look, partly because he's undersized. If he isn't scoring from 3, he isn't contributing any points and we need him to do so to win games.

So if he isn't scoring from 3, isn't scoring at all, and isn't running the offense well than he is a negative on offense. He certainly is a negative on defense.

So yeah, Madsen has probably stayed with him too long, but his minutes are dropping off a cliff the last two games.

The related issue is Tucker our backup PG is also ineffective. It's good to see him hit a couple open 3s, and he probably is our best passer, but when he makes a good play he often follows up with trying to do too much and makes a bad play.

So we are left with Wilkinson at PG. That's his future position, but it's a lot to ask a freshmen, especially one who plays so much, and benefits from playing a lot of his time off the ball.

PG has definitely been our biggest problem position both offensively and defensively.

HoopDreams said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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Bear8995 said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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Madsen outcoached his opponent.

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Huh? 1) We lost. 2) We were down 17 at one point with Madsen coaching. 3) See #1.

Reynaud was the best player on the floor, sure. And we definitely need more talent. But to claim Madsen outcoached Smith? Ridiculous. Sorry. It just is.

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The familiar theme has become the biggest flaw of Madsen's coaching is starting Blacksher and giving him too much leeway when he's not producing. Sure, there's only 4 games left, but this issue should be fixed immediately.

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Blacksher has been disappointing during the ACC. He is not running the offense well partly because he dribbles too much. I've said before that he is probably our best 3 point shooter when open, but he rarely gets a clean look, partly because he's undersized. If he isn't scoring from 3, he isn't contributing any points and we need him to do so to win games.

So if he isn't scoring from 3, isn't scoring at all, and isn't running the offense well than he is a negative on offense. He certainly is a negative on defense.

So yeah, Madsen has probably stayed with him too long, but his minutes are dropping off a cliff the last two games.

The related issue is Tucker our backup PG is also ineffective. It's good to see him hit a couple open 3s, and he probably is our best passer, but when he makes a good play he often follows up with trying to do too much and makes a bad play.

So we are left with Wilkinson at PG. That's his future position, but it's a lot to ask a freshmen, especially one who plays so much, and benefits from playing a lot of his time off the ball.

PG has definitely been our biggest problem position both offensively and defensively.

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Yeah, Blacksher was clearly a liability in the Stanford game, so he only played about 13 minutes I think. In other words, Madsen DID yank him. Campbell replaced him, and made some positive contributions. I'm not sure Blacksher played at all in the second half.

All I can say is that unless there's a situation when Blacksher is capable of helping the team, JW and DJ should be getttng the vast majority of the backcourt minutes. As many as they can give us.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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All I can say is that unless there's a situation when Blacksher is capable of helping the team, JW and DJ should be getttng the vast majority of the backcourt minutes. As many as they can give us.

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JW is already playing a ton of minutes. So many that he cramped up badly at the end of regulation in our OT loss

seems like our only option is to play Campbell more

HoopDreams said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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All I can say is that unless there's a situation when Blacksher is capable of helping the team, JW and DJ should be getttng the vast majority of the backcourt minutes. As many as they can give us.

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JW is already playing a ton of minutes. So many that he cramped up badly at the end of regulation in our OT loss

seems like our only option is to play Campbell more

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Then let's just put it this way. All things being equal DJ should get more minutes than Jovan.

I'd be curious to hear from others with recent coaching experience. Mine is about 20 years in the past. LOL (it was also 60/40 girls vs boys - which are pretty different at ages 12-16) - double LOL

I have made recent comments in another thread about AAU ball. The current state of college bball is changing in two key ways from a coaches perspective (based on my experiences 20 - 30 years ago). And they both have to do with recognizing a players strengths/weaknesses in very short order.

1. It was not uncommon to play multiple games in a tourney over the course of a weekend. It was also pretty common to have your roster change from game to game. We had a number of examples where Friday's opponent would be a teammate on Saturday. Makes relying on execution of PnR, team defense and terminology quite a challenge. Watching game style these days is much different than 10 years ago - I just can't help but feel for the coaches who grew up in a different era, but are trying to react to a new paradigm. They need to completely re think their practice/roster priorities.

2. Starting doesn't mean you are the best player at that position. Starters minutes doesn't make sense. Some players are better at the tip off (and some aren't). Some are better at the end of a game (and some aren't). Some are better in 2 minute bursts, while others need at least a 5 minute run. Some can play for 40 minutes a game, some struggle playing more than 10. Some play better from behind (score wise, not positionally), some from ahead. Some players adapt and adjust much faster than others (and some don't adapt, but are very good shot blockers).

A coaching staff needs to figure all of this out and react accordingly. And sometimes, injuries/fowls/refs can remove some of the tools from the toolkit.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Then let's just put it this way. All things being equal DJ should get more minutes than Jovan.

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Blacksher needs to stay planted on the bench, he should get as many minutes as Pavlovic (sorry, Vladimir).
Madsen's stubbornness on Blacksher all season showed me the first serious flaw in his coaching style (I know others think he's got 10 other flaws, but I really think he's done a great job, but for this flaw): he can't re-evaluate his own decisions on a rolling basis, especially if it involves something he sees as breaking a promise or failing in a loyalty test.
He gets zero points for re-evaluating when it's too late in Feb., the Blacksher decision should have been made Jan. 1.

What are the chances that the incoming freshman for next year are better than DJ and W at the point? Also, Jovan doesn't get open looks because he tries to shoot off the dribble. If the ball were passed to him he would have a better chance. He is not quick enough nor clever enough to get his shot off the dribble.