Into that EXCELLENT line score his brother put up against Michigan state and how it foretells his one-and-done career pathway at Kentucky? No seriously, I really am interested in hearing how we don't get it.

c'mon. we're better than that. let it go...

Don't be a dic* until after our game please, no bad juju.

http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2013-2014/uk1112.html

GO BEARS!

socaltownie;842221161 said:

---

Into that EXCELLENT line score his brother put up against Michigan state and how it foretells his one-and-done career pathway at Kentucky? No seriously, I really am interested in hearing how we don't get it.

---

Hey, he got 1 rebound in 1 minute of playing time ....

At that rate, if he plays 20 plus minutes a game, that would be 20 plus rebounds a game ....

Of course, if IFs and BUTs were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas ....

I don't mean to be a jerk but we had to spend the summer hearing how Marcus wasn't recruited over by Coach Cal and how wonderfully honest and above board the Kentucky program was.

Are you saying he shouldn't be satisfied with 1 minute of playing time???

His family is saving money because they don't have to spend a lot to travel to see him play in person ... Oh wait ....

Ok ... I will stop

calgldnbear;842221301 said:

---

Are you saying he shouldn't be satisfied with 1 minute of playing time???

---

One and done? Coach Cal didn't lie.

Wow. Classy folks. I am going to invoke a family saying. You can't cry over buried tile. Or spilled milk for that matter. And adults should be mature. He made his decision. Get over it.

parentswerebears;842221305 said:

---

Wow. Classy folks. I am going to invoke a family saying. You can't cry over buried tile. Or spilled milk for that matter. And adults should be mature. He made his decision. Get over it.

---

Actually I agree but it is fun.

NYCGOBEARS;842221307 said:

---

Actually I agree but it is fun.

---

It just makes us look pathetic.

Actually, I am not crying ... We will be and are fine.

Much of this is simply a response to the crap thrown at the collective Cal nation regarding why he was not coming or was too good to come, etc etc. I agree it is pointless but it is kinda ironic and funny

calgldnbear;842221310 said:

---

Actually, I am not crying ... We will be and are fine.

Much of this is simply a response to the crap thrown at the collective Cal nation regarding why he was not coming or was too good to come, etc etc. I agree it is pointless but it is kinda ironic and funny

---

I agree, it is almost everything mentioned above: funny, pathetic, ironic, dxck-like, classless... but not pointless, because it helps assuage some of the hurt from footall season.

Here's what I think. Marcus knew he wouldn't play much this season, but he believes he's good enough that, as he gains experience and strength, he will get good minutes no matter what freshmen phenoms they bring in. It may not happen next year, but I would guess at least by his junior year.

When it does happen I hope you apologize (which you should do anyway, but it's already clear you're not going to).

He had 17 in a previous game, granted it wasn't against the new #1 team in the country.

What i think is he looked pretty unhappy

He may want to transfer back home?

welcome ML!

Would you rather tell your grandkids you played for Kentucky and went to a final four or played at Cal?

Of course I would rather play for Cal. WTF? this is a Cal FanBoard.

And they key word is PLAY...he would PLAY for Cal, for UK he gathers splinters.

a top player chooses UK over Cal
what is the problem?

He made the right decision for himself and his family. I wish him luck.
End of story.

Dear FamilyFirst:

I tuned in to the Kentucky game specifically to see Marcus. I then simultaneously checked box scores on Kentucky's first two games. Great for him that he got 17 in that first game! Too bad he didn't get more minutes last night. It was fun to see the kid in action if even for 1 minute last night after we all had so much chatter (and hope) about him here.

You were very kind to grace us with your presence and explain the Lee thought process. It was, as I recall, more advantageous to practice against all those blue chip Kentucky guys day in and day out than against Kravish and Solo. You admitted, I felt, that the day to day grind of those Kentucky guys was more valuable training ground for Marcus' NBA potential than playing and starring for Cal in the Pac12 2x/week. That was a fair admission and, to me, the crux of the issue. There is no way I can determine which path will would be better, and so I watch the progress with great interest, however knowing I will never get to see the alternative (Cal) version and how it would have progressed.

Also, I do not recall you saying 1-and-done. Maybe you figured 2-and-done. Fair enough. We'll see how it goes, and I wish you all luck.

I have somewhat hated the idea of Kentucky (or any school) putting together a different breed of team so far and away above the talent level of the rest of the NCAA - it makes a mockery of the amateurism, student/athlete, concept. Then again, CBS/ESPN/PAC12NETWORK billions pretty much throws that concept out of the water anyways. I also somewhat have hated Coach Calipari and his smugness. Despite all this, I will have no problem rooting for Marcus Lee as one of our East Bay own. This, as opposed to Brandon Ashley, Aaron Gordon, or even that Duck PG who just got suspended for some reason (selling shoes?) - they apparently didn't even give us a nod, the bahstahds.

Best of luck to the one that got away.

PS: Just can't leave without saying it. DAMN! Can't you see how useful Marcus would have been in our lineup?!?!?! DOUBLE DAMN!
Tip o' the cap to Antipattern's note.

calgldnbear;842221310 said:

---

Actually, I am not crying ... We will be and are fine.

Much of this is simply a response to the crap thrown at the collective Cal nation regarding why he was not coming or was too good to come, etc etc. I agree it is pointless but it is kinda ironic and funny

---

Actually much of that was in response to the crap members of Cal nation threw Marcus's way. Just like if he were to come onto the site today and respond to this crap. He was mostly defending his brother and responding honestly to questions.

People here really thought the best way to "recruit" Marcus was to denigrate his ability, insult his intelligence and get into a pissing match with his family members? People should at least be respectful toward recruits and the family of recruits.

We could really use him as a transfer.

socaltownie;842221161 said:

---

Into that EXCELLENT line score his brother put up against Michigan state and how it foretells his one-and-done career pathway at Kentucky? No seriously, I really am interested in hearing how we don't get it.

---

That was an interesting game to me, but not because of Marcus L. It was more a game pitting a college program run like a college program should be vs. the modern day NBA minor league team. I'm sorry it was even close, actually.

As for Lee, he made his choice and that's fine. I don't really care what he does or doesn't do at this point.

I think for many of us there was a distinction others missed. Many of the attacks were NOT on Marcus but rather on the frustrating stubborness not to see past the Calipari BS when it was came to recruiting over him. The response was that A) Cal didn't recruit over him or B) it didn't matter because the practices would be better than playing and still enable a first round draft pick. And last nights line score is pretty much prima facia evidence that Marcus could be stuck down in the rotation because of Calipari's unethical recruitment practices.

socaltownie;842221416 said:

---

I think for many of us there was a distinction others missed. Many of the attacks were NOT on Marcus but rather on the frustrating stubborness not to see past the Calipari BS when it was came to recruiting over him. The response was that A) Cal didn't recruit over him or B) it didn't matter because the practices would be better than playing and still enable a first round draft pick. And last nights line score is pretty much prima facia evidence that Marcus could be stuck down in the rotation because of Calipari's unethical recruitment practices.

---

First, the argument that even if he doesn't start, he is competing against top players in practice has not been proven false.

Secondly, too many posters tried to bolster their argument by denigrating Marcus's ability or taking a very hostile stance toward his family and their judgment (as shown again in the title of this thread). Maybe you see it as "frustrating stubbornness" but we do not overcome that with insults and by trying to prove ourselves "right" and "told you sos." I personally would love to see Marcus Lee transfer from Kentucky to Cal. I think being friendly to his family members would be a great start. If we think Calipari only cares about winning and would recruit over a player (as would and has Montgomery, BTW), we do not overcome that by only caring about our team and how much better we would be with Lee, we just continue to focus on the advantages for Marcus and his family of going to Cal and how much we would like to see him at Cal. And if not Marcus and his family, then the next recruit and his family.

calumnus;842221441 said:

---

First, the argument that even if he doesn't start, he is competing against top players in practice has not been proven false.

Secondly, too many posters tried to bolster their argument by denigrating Marcus's ability or taking a very hostile stance toward his family and their judgment (as shown again in the title of this thread). Maybe you see it as "frustrating stubbornness" but we do not overcome that with insults and by trying to prove ourselves "right" and "told you sos." I personally would love to see Marcus Lee transfer from Kentucky to Cal. I think being friendly to his family members would be a great start.

---

Please indicate a first round pick buried down the bench on an elite team where the scouts went "Well sure he didn't play but look who he practiced against!!!"

socaltownie;842221443 said:

---

Please indicate a first round pick buried down the bench on an elite team where the scouts went "Well sure he didn't play but look who he practiced against!!!"

---

A first round pick who had limited minutes on an elite team in an early game his freshman year?

calumnus;842221450 said:

---

A first round pick who had limited minutes on an elite team in an early game his freshman year?

---

The argument advanced last year was that even if Calipari recruited over Marcus (after promising he wouldn't) it didn't matter because the practices were so good and that scouts knew it the game stats didn't matter.

+1
embarrassing...is there going to be another thread of other guys Cal missed out on last year?

socaltownie;842221454 said:

---

The argument advanced last year was that even if Calipari recruited over Marcus (after promising he wouldn't) it didn't matter because the practices were so good and that scouts knew it the game stats didn't matter.

---

That is a straw man. I am pretty sure no one argued that he could get to the NBA only through practices. The argument was that practicing against good players daily as a freshman, even if he was not playing much in games, would be a good way to develop his offensive and defensive skills. The fact that he did not play much in an early season game early his freshman year sheds no light on the validity of that theory. Obviously at some later point he would have to demonstrate those developed skills in a game, but we are not at that point yet.

Again, while I agree with your sentiment, I don't think calling out recruit's family members and adopting straw man arguments in an attempt to prove them "wrong" is going to win Cal many friends or recruits (or transfers).

calumnus;842221473 said:

---

Obviously at some later point he would have to demonstrate those developed skills in a game, but we are not at that point yet.

---

I think the very nature of the program at Kentucky suggest that one better be AWFULLY careful that you believe you the very best at your position (especially front court) for not just your cohort but the group behind because coach Cal has and will recruit over you and promise away "your" playing time. The knock is not on the Lee family except in so far as they are blind to what Calipari is doing and which is otherwise obvious to nearly anyone who follows college basketball.

Lets just ask Kyle Wiltjer about the "system" at Kentucky - a point underscored by Craig Victor later in the article

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/07/19/2722347/kentuckys-wiltjer-transferring.html

It isn't at ALL clear to me that if you are not playing major minutes with the Wildcats from day one as a front court player you EVER will play major minutes. It isn't that he had zero points - it is that he had 1 minute of play in a very important game.

The problem, dare I say, is that you are applying ideas about college basketball to a program which is an extreme outlier.

calumnus;842221406 said:

---

Actually much of that was in response to the crap members of Cal nation threw Marcus's way. Just like if he were to come onto the site today and respond to this crap. He was mostly defending his brother and responding honestly to questions.

People here really thought the best way to "recruit" Marcus was to denigrate his ability, insult his intelligence and get into a pissing match with his family members? People should at least be respectful toward recruits and the family of recruits.

We could really use him as a transfer.

---

1. SoCal was aiming at Marcus' brother not Marcus

2. SoCal you should just drop it. No way to do this and look good.

3. I said at the time and will say now. Marcus gave us a shot and that is all I can ask. It's his decision. Cal fans needed to respect that. Some didn't and needed to be called out.

4. Defending his brother was fine, but Lee's brother went way beyond that, incessantly insulting our coach and claiming none of our African American players graduated which was completely untrue and a damned insult to guys like Theo who worked their butts off to do so. He also did this for weeks. SoCal should drop it, especially because no way to do this without Lee being collateral damage, but the brother doesn't deserve the defense.

calumnus;842221473 said:

---

That is a straw man. I am pretty sure no one argued that he could get to the NBA only through practices. The argument was that practicing against good players daily as a freshman, even if he was not playing much in games, would be a good way to develop his offensive and defensive skills. The fact that he did not play much in an early season game early his freshman year sheds no light on the validity of that theory. Obviously at some later point he would have to demonstrate those developed skills in a game, but we are not at that point yet.

Again, while I agree with your sentiment, I don't think calling out recruit's family members and adopting straw man arguments in an attempt to prove them "wrong" is going to win Cal many friends or recruits (or transfers).

---

This combined with your defense of a poster who said pretty objectionable things about Monty and Cal last year leads me to believe you ducked out of that argument before the bleep hit the fan (smart by the way). That is not a straw man. As stupid as it sound that is exactly the argument that was made over and over and over. Not about practicing vs not playing as a frosh. It was about still being better off playing for UK rather than Cal even if he NEVER played at UK because he would practice against the best. That was the argument. Frankly the thread would have died far sooner if people weren't flabbergasted by that.

OaktownBear;842221488 said:

---

1. SoCal was aiming at Marcus' brother not Marcus

2. SoCal you should just drop it. No way to do this and look good.

3. I said at the time and will say now. Marcus gave us a shot and that is all I can ask. It's his decision. Cal fans needed to respect that. Some didn't and needed to be called out.

4. Defending his brother was fine, but Lee's brother went way beyond that, incessantly insulting our coach and claiming none of our African American players graduated which was completely untrue and a damned insult to guys like Theo who worked their butts off to do so. He also did this for weeks. SoCal should drop it, especially because no way to do this without Lee being collateral damage, but the brother doesn't deserve the defense.

---

Honestly my beef more than anything is with Coach Calipari - who CLEARLY is putting self before these young men. The NCAA is brutally cruel when it comes to eligibility and transfer rules. You do just a horrific disservice to these men if you recruit a frosh to a position and then, some 2 months later, you recruit a marginally BETTER frosh to the same position. Worst thing? We might not even KNOW if Marcus is better than Randle - because it is clear to all that Randal is going to be getting the majority of minutes at the four.

Now the optomists say "Well Randle is gone after this year so it is OK". But that ignores Jahlil Okafor and what happens if _HE_ signs with Kentucky. Karl Towns may take those minutes as well at the Stretch 4.

We will never know what Calipari said to Marcus but, IMHO, I would be floored if he didn't say "Well of course you will be our four in the future".

Lee would be welcomed to Cal with open arms. He'd have an immediate impact and play with an amazing class of guards. He should transfer.

NYCGOBEARS;842221302 said:

---

One and done? Coach Cal didn't lie.

---

LOL!! Nice