parentswerebears;842255227 said:

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Wow. That is harsh. I am sure 18 year old you was perfect and never made any mistakes. I know I never f'ed anything up at 18.

#blamelessandcastingthatstone

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+ lots

calalum81;842255233 said:

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Jordan reminds me a bit of Gary Franklin. When the ball is in his hands, I anticipate that he'll shot it more often than pass it. But, unlike Franklin, he has plenty of sense and a support group that will keep him grounded. He brings to the team a scoring mentality that's needed when the offense gets stagnant.

I haven't watched multiple replays of the flagrant foul, but my initial view was that he knew he was late getting out to the shooter, started raising his left arm to contest the shot while jumping out, but ran into Powell while he was lowering his arm, hitting him in the chin and neck with his elbow. Nothing intentional, but clearly within the definition of a flagrant 1.

He will continue to make positive contributions while having some freshman moments.

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One of the really striking things about Cobbs this year is that he has virtually eliminated the thing that Brandon Smith was so notorious for (despite other virtues), and which Cobbs was guilty of well into his Junior year to a degree one wouldn't have imagined considering his advanced skills and high basketball I.Q. (and, indeed, maturity), i.e., ploughing head down into the paint with logic strongly against any kind of decent look and not much clue about finishing (i.e., about where this all was going to end up), which is why I join the welcome chorus of posters saying that it is truly over-the-top to be actually bitter about Matthews' doing that to some extent in his FIRST FEW FRESHMAN games, when, at other times, he has shown so much (e.g., multiple hit 3s, good defense, good court sense, creative playmaking, a lot of heart, etc., etc., etc., etc.).

I join the welcome chorus of posters saying that it is truly over-the-top to be actually bitter about Matthews' doing that to some extent in his FIRST FEW FRESHMAN games, when, at other times, he has shown so much (e.g., multiple hit 3s, good defense, good court sense, creative playmaking, a lot of heart, etc., etc., etc., etc.).

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Agreed about Mathews.

He is talented (quickest, smoothest outside shot seen at Cal in a long time), tenacious, competitive eager to defend. That he still has a steep learning curve is not surprising.

Am betting he helps the team in conference substantially over the rest of the season.

Go Bears!

I have realized this season that one of the things I like so much better about the college game than the pros is that you watch these boys mature so much throughout a four year career. Look at Solo. What a difference four years makes!

parentswerebears;842255241 said:

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I have realized this season that one of the things I like so much better about the college game than the pros is that you watch these boys mature so much throughout a four year career. Look at Solo. What a difference four years makes!

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+1000!

It is at the core of being a college fan.

The wonderful part of the Montgomery tenure is that we Bears fans can count on continuous improvement from every able bodied recruit who stays at Cal.

The only exception that comes to mind is Brandon, who seemed to plateau after his second year. But perhaps, as some have mentioned, his concussion his 3rd year really impacted him in a bad way.

Anyway, almost everyone makes steady and overall huge leaps with Monty.

We are privileged to have Monty.

Go Bears!

sheki;842254754 said:

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I want to start of by saying that I think that Jordan Mathews will be a good college player...but last night's performance brought memories of Brandon Smith:

Here is his line: 18mins, 1-7 shooting, 0 rebs, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blks...4 fouls.

It's his first Pac-12 game, and i'm sure this won't happen again...

The best thing about freshman is that they become sophomores

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What, you're going to roast him after one bad game.
He'll be one of the first off the bench, by the end of the season, if not sooner.

parentswerebears;842255241 said:

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I have realized this season that one of the things I like so much better about the college game than the pros is that you watch these boys mature so much throughout a four year career. Look at Solo. What a difference four years makes!

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I like both games and I'd argue that you can watch young pros develop remarkably over four years. If you have watched Steph Curry for four years you'll have seen some very significant development.

I do like watching a team develop over the course of a season and I've seen that more at Cal with Montgomery than in the past.

Something about this thread seems personal. It feels like there are questions about his character and attitude. Yes, he had a bad game. And he made a stupid foul. But that's as far as it goes.

He is a great kid. Really. A great kid. Polite. Smart. Engaging. Really.

I think he has upside athletically. His character upside is huge. As he improves and starts getting more media coverage, Bear fans will realize he has the kind of character and personality that will represent very well.

Agree. He is a competitor and was getting his first Pac12 start in a rivalry game. His confidence and aggressive attitude reminds me of the No Fear attitude of another Cal Bear in his freshmen year...Ty Wallace.

From everything I've heard he is a high character guy. He had a bad game and tried to do too much, this game just gives me more confidence that he will be a player for Cal

WhatABonanza;842255327 said:

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Something about this thread seems personal. It feels like there are questions about his character and attitude. Yes, he had a bad game. And he made a stupid foul. But that's as far as it goes.

He is a great kid. Really. A great kid. Polite. Smart. Engaging. Really.

I think he has upside athletically. His character upside is huge. As he improves and starts getting more media coverage, Bear fans will realize he has the kind of character and personality that will represent very well.

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Maybe the problem here is the perception of what he was supposed to be like-a nonpareil marksman with high hoops IQ. The step-up to D-1 from HS is huge and he won't be the first player to struggle with the change. I admit to being disappointed in his overall play so far as he hasn't shot well and seems lost or a step slow on D. But better people than I have seen him play for longer so I am willing to wait and see.:Monty

sixtiesbear1;842255218 said:

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That foul on Powell could have lost the game and was totally unnecessary.
Not to mention it was his responsibility to guard the shooter who made a wide open three at a critical juncture. Fine. But the foul was a real dumb move and then he complained like somehow it wasn't a foul. It was a flagrant. No question. Obviously intentional. Lucky they didn't give him a 2.
Guys can have bad nights but this was beyond that.
Monty knows what he is doing but I am nervous with that guy on the court. Don't see the upside.

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really you think he has hit the ceiling in his freshman year?

WhatABonanza;842255327 said:

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......He is a great kid. Really. A great kid. Polite. Smart. Engaging. Really.

I think he has upside athletically. His character upside is huge. As he improves and starts getting more media coverage, Bear fans will realize he has the kind of character and personality that will represent very well.

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post-game reception in Lahaina last November, and they both impressed me as great kids exhibiting all the positive attributes you listed.

Mathews flagrant on Powell was not on purpose... as he was guarding the weak side low block, had to close out to 3 point line and was trying to raise his arm to jump at the shooter... Powell got in way (not Powell fault either, that is exactly what he is supposed to do, seal out defender to contest)

The result was bad.... and could have cost the game (but did not).. I know, a flagrant foul ruling does not consider intent... but again, was not a clothes line type foul...

:gobears:

sheki;842254754 said:

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I want to start of by saying that I think that Jordan Mathews will be a good college player...but last night's performance brought memories of Brandon Smith:

Here is his line: 18mins, 1-7 shooting, 0 rebs, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blks...4 fouls.

It's his first Pac-12 game, and i'm sure this won't happen again...

The best thing about freshman is that they become sophomores

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Time to eat crow.

DAMN THAT CROW TASTES SOOOO GOOD!!!

steamed crow, fried crow, sauteed crow, crow gumbo, crow quet......

Awesome game.....i told you he's gonna be a great pac 12 player some day. :cheer

Impressive stats for a frosh who had to earn a starting role. he needs to improve inbound play...that one play, he looked totally lost.

sheki;842258811 said:

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DAMN THAT CROW TASTES SOOOO GOOD!!!

steamed crow, fried crow, sauteed crow, crow gumbo, crow quet......

Awesome game.....i told you he's gonna be a great pac 12 player some day. :cheer

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Live Butt Crow, buddy.

sheki;842258811 said:

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DAMN THAT CROW TASTES SOOOO GOOD!!!

steamed crow, fried crow, sauteed crow, crow gumbo, crow quet......

Awesome game.....i told you he's gonna be a great pac 12 player some day. :cheer

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"crow quet" made me laugh.

GoCalBears;842258825 said:

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Impressive stats for a frosh who had to earn a starting role. he needs to improve inbound play...that one play, he looked totally lost.

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Keep scoring 32 points per game and I won't care if he can inbound or not :-)

sluggo_Cal;842255145 said:

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No, memories of Gary Franklin. Under-sized 2, not a great athlete, just a shooter, bad form on his shot, and the shots don't go in. I was at the game last night, and the shots missed in all directions. A good shooter when they are off should be off in a consistent manner. Shooting 32% on the year and 27% from 3. No longer a small sample size. Bird and Kreklow cannot return soon enough.

Now three years later Franklin has improved, and I would like to think Mathews will as well, but there is no reason to think he will get better right now as the competition is getting more difficult.

Sluggo

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Ouch!!

This thread is amazing.

Let's re-title it "How To Eat Crow."

GRRAAH;842258973 said:

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Ouch!!

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He consistently has the worst takes on the basketball board.
His argument was that he can't improve because our competition is getting better!? Don't players seek out the best competition in order to improve more
Rapidly? I know that the Arizona coaches specifically use this line of thinking when they are recruiting and it's true for all sports as well as academics. Challenging yourself against the best competition is the quickest way towards self improvement.

sluggo_Cal;842255145 said:

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No, memories of Gary Franklin. Under-sized 2, not a great athlete, just a shooter, bad form on his shot, and the shots don't go in. I was at the game last night, and the shots missed in all directions. A good shooter when they are off should be off in a consistent manner. Shooting 32% on the year and 27% from 3. No longer a small sample size. Bird and Kreklow cannot return soon enough.

Now three years later Franklin has improved, and I would like to think Mathews will as well, but there is no reason to think he will get better right now as the competition is getting more difficult.

Sluggo

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This is some crap. He's not at all like Gary Franklin, who thought he was the best player on the team and jacked up shot after shot after shot.

Matthews actually has very nice form with an extremely quick release.

Finally, I noticed you have were extremely quiet last night/this morning, after Matthews made you look like a fool. I hope he continues to do so.

grandmastapoop;842259037 said:

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Matthews actually has very nice form with an extremely quick release.

/QUOTE]

Glad to see this mentioned.

I have been trying to think of a recent Cal player who has had as good form and quick release.

Jordan's shot is really superb, and he has far from peaked.

Go Bears!

sluggo_Cal;842255145 said:

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No, memories of Gary Franklin. Under-sized 2, not a great athlete, just a shooter, bad form on his shot, and the shots don't go in. I was at the game last night, and the shots missed in all directions. A good shooter when they are off should be off in a consistent manner. Shooting 32% on the year and 27% from 3. No longer a small sample size. Bird and Kreklow cannot return soon enough.

Now three years later Franklin has improved, and I would like to think Mathews will as well, but there is no reason to think he will get better right now as the competition is getting more difficult.

Sluggo

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I think you should re-post this before every game.

grandmastapoop;842259037 said:

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Matthews actually has very nice form with an extremely quick release.

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His three that put us up by 5 late after Oregon cut the lead to 2 points was a perfect example of this. JM caught the ball moving from left to right and buried a 3 in the face of a defender who was trailing right behind him. The player probably thought he was in a good defensive position but JM released the ball so quickly he barely had time to put his hand up and challenge the shot. I was very impressed.

Now I can see how JM hit all of those game winning 3's in HS against good teams who knew exactly where the ball was going to end up.

sixtiesbear1;842255218 said:

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That foul on Powell could have lost the game and was totally unnecessary.
Not to mention it was his responsibility to guard the shooter who made a wide open three at a critical juncture. Fine. But the foul was a real dumb move and then he complained like somehow it wasn't a foul. It was a flagrant. No question. Obviously intentional. Lucky they didn't give him a 2.
Guys can have bad nights but this was beyond that.
Monty knows what he is doing but I am nervous with that guy on the court. Don't see the upside.

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Just wondering if you see any upside now.

bluesaxe;842259067 said:

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Just wondering if you see any upside now.

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There is ALWAYS upside for any kid who can fill the hole. As Eddie House said when they questioned his NBA potential. Something like, there's always a need for shooters, and the rim is the same size in the pro. If you can put it in the bucket, you have a role! (kind of like reminding people that the team with the most points wins, and you get points by shooting the ball)

Note: For detractors only.

Aside from the obvious great scoring night, what impressed me the most was his lack of mistakes and his defense. One turnover in 38 minutes. Cal made a lot of turnovers in that game, 17, and Mathews made only one. Considering how much he was handling the ball, that was terrific.

Mathews' defense has gradually been getting better. He is not losing his man as often as he did in early games. With the good offensive players that Oregon has, Montgomery elected to play the entire game with a man-to-man defense, which he might not have done if Mathews had not made this improvement in defense.

:gobears:

bearister;842254768 said:

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He will be a very good player for Cal by his Junior and Senior year.

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I guess last night showed I stepped on my unit with regard to the timetable I came up with in that prediction.

bearister;842259279 said:

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I guess last night showed I stepped on my unit with regard to the timetable I came up with in that prediction.

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It's good to eat crow, isn't it?! I like being wrong when it comes to upside surprises from Cal teams!

grandmastapoop;842259037 said:

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This is some crap. He's not at all like Gary Franklin, who thought he was the best player on the team and jacked up shot after shot after shot.

Matthews actually has very nice form with an extremely quick release.

Finally, I noticed you have were extremely quiet last night/this morning, after Matthews made you look like a fool. I hope he continues to do so.

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Going into the night he was shooting 32%(27% from 3) and had 11 assists (now he is up to 12) for the season. Sure he had a better attitude than Franklin, but his game was Franklinesque. He was great last night. Hopefully he will continue to be great. We disagree on the form; I am not the only one with that opinion. As to being quiet, I am not one who posts every five minutes. I don't take back that the ONLY part of his game right now that is pac 12 level is his shooting, and when that is off, as it had been, he is a liability.

Clearly, he is somewhere between his Stanford form and his Oregon form. I hope his Oregon form is closer to his future average.

Sluggo

Holmoephobic;842259024 said:

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He consistently has the worst takes on the basketball board.
His argument was that he can't improve because our competition is getting better!? Don't players seek out the best competition in order to improve more
Rapidly? I know that the Arizona coaches specifically use this line of thinking when they are recruiting and it's true for all sports as well as academics. Challenging yourself against the best competition is the quickest way towards self improvement.

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That is it HP, no Christmas card for you in 2014. I always find you so insightful, like the above gem about human potential. When a student is struggling the right move is to advance them, right? That I said "expect" rather than "can't" is probably lost on you, but that is to be expected, as you are dealing with the big issues.

Sluggo

sluggo_Cal;842259295 said:

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I don't take back that the ONLY part of his game right now that is pac 12 level is his shooting, and when that is off, as it had been, he is a liability.

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Let's see... he also had only one turnover, in 38(!) minutes. So he can clearly take care of the ball. No, he wasn't dishing assists, he was shooting, which is what he was asked to do. He hit 9-9 from the line, so he was able to get to the line and make it count. Something that is very important when the shooting goes cold. He also had 5 rebounds, and played pretty good defense, again for 38 minutes, against a very athletic and talented team.

So, sorry... you may not take it back, but you're wrong.