am I the only one tired of seeing UK and UConn in the Final Four and/or Title game?

HoopDreams;842301344 said:

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am I the only one tired of seeing UK and UConn in the Final Four and/or Title game?

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No. I am truly sick of Kentucky essentially making a farce of the idea of "college" athletics. Even SEC football isn't this bad (and that is hurdle that is millimeters off the ground)

The only way to stop it is to eliminate the one and done rule. Otherwise Coach Cal keeps bringing in 5-7 of the top 25 each year and coaching them on having good body language.

Calipari is certainly cementing the notion that recruiting is everything.

If Monty recruited those six McDs, I assume everyone here believes we'd be playing in the national championship. (Hear that Calipari bringing in four more next year.)

...I just want the refs to stop calling so many da*n fouls (non-fouls) in these games - it's just ridiculous.

I've said it before, but it's worth repeating. My favorite Bobby Knight quote: "Everything wrong with college basketball is demonstrated by the fact that John Calipari is still coaching."

SmellinRoses;842301352 said:

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Calipari is certainly cementing the notion that recruiting is everything.

If Monty recruited those six McDs, I assume everyone here believes we'd be playing in the national championship. (Hear that Calipari bringing in four more next year.)

...I just want the refs to stop calling so many da*n fouls (non-fouls) in these games - it's just ridiculous.

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Calipari has signed 4 already for 2014. He is still recruiting a couple, so he must be expecting 4-6 to declare for the draft. It's a travesty.

HoopDreams;842301344 said:

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am I the only one tired of seeing UK and UConn in the Final Four and/or Title game?

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I was so unhappy to see Kentucky get there. I can deal with UConn.

HoopDreams;842301344 said:

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am I the only one tired of seeing UK and UConn in the Final Four and/or Title game?

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NCAA probably loves it. They get a New York Yankees type of team that is loved and hated. Brings in more tv money and probably more interest having a dynasty-like team. Roster changes but the name "Kentucky" does not.

I would just like to know what the hell the Wisc player was doing giving Harrison the 3 pointer and not up in his drawers?

actually, I just read an article about Calipari saying we should change the one and done rule to TWO and done.

He says it's all about graduating the players, with some freaking silly argument

Of course, Calipari figures that he'd still get the 5 star players, and that they would have to stay in his program for 2 years. Basically he thinks it would be an advantage to UK to change the rule to 2 and done (but he was did not advocate 3 and done nor staying all 4 years)

Polodad;842301350 said:

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The only way to stop it is to eliminate the one and done rule. Otherwise Coach Cal keeps bringing in 5-7 of the top 25 each year and coaching them on having good body language.

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Yeah, even though these teams are technically "underdogs" (being 7 and 8 seeds) it doesn't really feel that way. Kind of disappointed in this matchup.

Especially in Kentucky's case it feels like the young players just slacked off for much of the regular season and turned it on for the tournament and made that work. Not the best lesson, if you're looking for such things.

UrsaMajor;842301356 said:

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I've said it before, but it's worth repeating. My favorite Bobby Knight quote: "Everything wrong with college basketball is demonstrated by the fact that John Calipari is still coaching."

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Glass houses

calumnus;842301411 said:

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Glass houses

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I assume you are equating Knight and Calipari?

I am making no case for the degeneration of Knight over the years, but his program apparently was always clean in its recruiting.

Also, he was a helluva coach whose teams, at least before his psychological implosion, could be counted on to overachieve regularly.

Also, never BS from Knight.

Totally different from Calipari.

Go Bears!

I agree. I have no interest in watching Kentucky Coaching doesn't matter anymore.

south bender;842301473 said:

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I assume you are equating Knight and Calipari?

I am making no case for the degeneration of Knight over the years, but his program apparently was always clean in its recruiting.

Also, he was a helluva coach whose teams, at least before his psychological implosion, could be counted on to overachieve regularly.

Also, never BS from Knight.

Totally different from Calipari.

Go Bears!

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Exactly what recruiting violations has Calipari committed again ?

RealScouting;842301481 said:

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Exactly what recruiting violations has Calipari committed again ?

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Though he was not directly tagged, as I understand it, both at UMass and Memphis NCAA titles were vacated for various infractions.

Was he innocent? You make the call!

Go Bears!

89Bear;842301371 said:

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NCAA probably loves it. They get a New York Yankees type of team that is loved and hated. Brings in more tv money and probably more interest having a dynasty-like team. Roster changes but the name "Kentucky" does not.

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And let's not forget XCon... er... UConn, a similar-type-team, fresh off probation, and located kinda within the NY television market.

south bender;842301482 said:

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Though he was not directly tagged, as I understand it, both at UMass and Memphis NCAA titles were vacated for various infractions.

Was he innocent? You make the call!

Go Bears!

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Marcus Camby took money from 2 different agents that he didn't sign with. No head coach can control what his players do when they're not under his supervision. The penalty was against UMass and not Calipari. The Memphis sanctions were because D. Rose had someone else take his SAT for him. Again, the NCAA investigated and found no wrong doing on Cal's part. People don't like and think he's some kind of snake oil salesman just because they don't like him. Nothing more nothing less. He has just happened to recruit and get guys who were good enough to be one and done players. That's not his fault and he shouldn't be blamed for it. His job is dependent on winning games and to do that you have to have players and at a place like Kentucky winning championships is the standard. He didn't have the type of one and done guys at UMass or Memphis.

RealScouting;842301498 said:

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Marcus Camby took money from 2 different agents that he didn't sign with. No head coach can control what his players do when they're not under his supervision. The penalty was against UMass and not Calipari. The Memphis sanctions were because D. Rose had someone else take his SAT for him. Again, the NCAA investigated and found no wrong doing on Cal's part. People don't like and think he's some kind of snake oil salesman just because they don't like him. Nothing more nothing less. He has just happened to recruit and get guys who were good enough to be one and done players. That's not his fault and he shouldn't be blamed for it. His job is dependent on winning games and to do that you have to have players and at a place like Kentucky winning championships is the standard. He didn't have the type of one and done guys at UMass or Memphis.

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You're right of course. He's a wonderful man that attracts high ethical people because of the high ethical standards he himself possesses and projects. He cares about winning but only in the greater context of winning in these young person's lives. He in no way contributes to the devolving landscape of college athletics, he just happened to be the coach at three of the most slimey, win at all cost programs when he happened to be there. It's just coincidence and sour grapes.

blungld;842301501 said:

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You're right of course. He's a wonderful man that attracts high ethical people because of the high ethical standards he himself possesses and projects. He cares about winning but only in the greater context of winning in these young person's lives. He in no way contributes to the devolving landscape of college athletics, he just happened to be the coach at three of the most slimey, win at all cost programs when he happened to be there. It's just coincidence and sour grapes.

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Perfect description.

blungld;842301501 said:

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You're right of course. He's a wonderful man that attracts high ethical people because of the high ethical standards he himself possesses and projects. He cares about winning but only in the greater context of winning in these young person's lives. He in no way contributes to the devolving landscape of college athletics, he just happened to be the coach at three of the most slimey, win at all cost programs when he happened to be there. It's just coincidence and sour grapes.

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It is just sour grapes that you need to get over. It amazes me how people form opinions about these things they know nothing about. If any of you think that there is a lilly white elite program in the country than you are really naive.

RealScouting;842301533 said:

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It is just sour grapes that you need to get over. It amazes me how people form opinions about these things they know nothing about. If any of you think that there is a lilly white elite program in the country than you are really naive.

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No one thinks that.

RealScouting;842301533 said:

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It is just sour grapes that you need to get over. It amazes me how people form opinions about these things they know nothing about. If any of you think that there is a lilly white elite program in the country than you are really naive.

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Who took your SAT? j/k

Anyway, some people drive the speed limit and some people go 5-10 mph above hoping they don't get pulled over/get caught.

Some people drive double the speed limit and rarely get pulled over or caught. When they do, it's either by a traffic camera where they just don't return to that state so they can't get properly served or their attorneys fight the ticket in the courts.

Oh, and I resent your use of the term lilly white for lack of spelling and for racial connotations. I prefer squeakky cleann.

ZzzzZZZzzzzZZZZ.

south bender;842301473 said:

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I assume you are equating Knight and Calipari?

I am making no case for the degeneration of Knight over the years, but his program apparently was always clean in its recruiting.

Also, he was a helluva coach whose teams, at least before his psychological implosion, could be counted on to overachieve regularly.

Also, never BS from Knight.

Totally different from Calipari.

Go Bears!

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No, not equating them, just saying Knight and his physically and verbally abusive (towards players, refs, his secretary...), win at all costs and ego driven coaching style (the game is all about the coach, not the players) is a big part of what is wrong with college basketball. Yes, he knows the game of basketball and yes, that style of coaching can produce wins, or at least it did in another era when he had players that were in the military or were "drafted" from Indiana prep ranks (see Larry Bird--who fled Indiana because of Knight).

I would MUCH rather have my son play for Calipari than Knight and it is not even close.

And it is not just "the way things were." When I was little I attended John Wooden's practices (my dad would ref the scrimmages). He managed to always treat his players with respect on and off the court. I never heard him sound angry. He was always teaching.

RealScouting;842301533 said:

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It is just sour grapes that you need to get over. It amazes me how people form opinions about these things they know nothing about. If any of you think that there is a lilly white elite program in the country than you are really naive.

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I am of mixed feelings on this one. First, given the set of incentives and constraints in which he operates I think Calipari does a great job. Like a lot of great innovators he examined the market, understood it, and exploited it.

A) One and Done means that kids need someplace to play between age 18 and 19
B) The NBA is ALL about marketing the "star" and the whole idea of entourage and privledge.
C) The Tournament is a format in which team play is discounted and individual play is accentuated.

So with A,B, & C here is what you would do.....

A) "Teach" at a school with strong summer sessions and a winter "intersession". I would love to see the actual APR calculations but my guess is that Kentucky is gaming the system so that one and dones are either not enrolled in Spring Semester or are taking just the absolute minimum load that NCAA requires. Calipari hints/says as much in his new book that is excerpted in today's WSJ. Behind a firewall, RS, in case you don't subscribe (you should, help you manage the fortune you are making as a street agent)

B) Provide a TajMahal that is vastly different from the ordinary student experience.
http://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/kentuckys-housing-chef-flat-screens/153247

C) Play a brand of basketball that doesn't require tremendous team concepts. If you were not "bored" by the saturday game you actually are a better man then I. We knew what the cats would do every position - throw the ball at the back board off a high post screen and then DARE the officials to call fouls as the Star players knocked the Wisky guys all over the court. It wasn't basketball - it was the definition of thug ball.

Now here is the thing - I don't begrudge Calipari - just as I don't begrudge Bill Gates for figuring out how to exploit the market IBM left open. Neither is a great "technical guy" (coach/software engineer) but both are f'ing visionaries and one has to tip their hate - even as one can also hate.

calumnus;842301590 said:

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And it is not just "the way things were." When I was little I attended John Wooden's practices (my dad would ref the scrimmages). He managed to always treat his players with respect on and off the court. I never heard him sound angry. He was always teaching.

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...because he had Sam Gilbert handling the bag man duties for the Ucla program during its heyday. I don't think anyone doubts that Wooden was a great coach, but given the rules of his day, he stockpiled all-star teams, and then had the West LA talent and Sam Gilbert keep his kids happy.

I would never equate Wooden to Calipari, but the way to assemble great teams has not changed all that much.

UrsaMajor;842301356 said:

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I've said it before, but it's worth repeating. My favorite Bobby Knight quote: "Everything wrong with college basketball is demonstrated by the fact that John Calipari is still coaching."

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+1

That was a GREAT run by both teams. Kentucky got it together just in time for the tourney and they were fun to watch. Great job by Calipari by making chnages and tweaking things so late in the season: They knocked off a good K-State team, 35-0 Wichita, the two teams tha played for the championship a year ago & a very good Wisconsin team.

south bender;842301473 said:

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I assume you are equating Knight and Calipari?

I am making no case for the degeneration of Knight over the years, but his program apparently was always clean in its recruiting.

Also, he was a helluva coach whose teams, at least before his psychological implosion, could be counted on to overachieve regularly.

Also, never BS from Knight.

Totally different from Calipari.

Go Bears!

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You must have missed his reaction on national tv of Texas Tech's firing of his son Pat. He basically ripped the adminstration for firing him when in reality PAT KNIGHT was a horrible head coach.

RealScouting;842301533 said:

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It is just sour grapes that you need to get over. It amazes me how people form opinions about these things they know nothing about. If any of you think that there is a lilly white elite program in the country than you are really naive.

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You are calling people naive after asking what recruiting violations Calipari has committed?

SFBearz;842301969 said:

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You are calling people naive after asking what recruiting violations Calipari has committed?

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Uhhh yeah. Nobody has pointed out any recruiting violations. Let me dumb this down for you. Marcus Camby took money from 2 agents. MARCUS CAMBY. He was already at UMass when that happened. That didn't happen when he was RECRUITED. Derrick Rose allegedly had someone take his SAT for him. DERRICK ROSE. Why is it that as thorough as the NCAA is when they investigate potential violations, he still has a job and hasn't been reprimanded at all ? The school's were sanctioned because of lack of institutional control basically telling them they should have control over every decision 18-22 year olds make even when they're not a member of the university yet or are not under the head coach's supervision.

RealScouting;842302232 said:

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Uhhh yeah. Nobody has pointed out any recruiting violations. Let me dumb this down for you. Marcus Camby took money from 2 agents. MARCUS CAMBY. He was already at UMass when that happened. That didn't happen when he was RECRUITED. Derrick Rose allegedly had someone take his SAT for him. DERRICK ROSE. Why is it that as thorough as the NCAA is when they investigate potential violations, he still has a job and hasn't been reprimanded at all ? The school's were sanctioned because of lack of institutional control basically telling them they should have control over every decision 18-22 year olds make even when they're not a member of the university yet or are not under the head coach's supervision.

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It is not that was a part of the action, but you have to wonder whether or not he chose to look the other way, which is just as bad, IMO.

RealScouting;842302232 said:

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Uhhh yeah. Nobody has pointed out any recruiting violations. Let me dumb this down for you. Marcus Camby took money from 2 agents. MARCUS CAMBY. He was already at UMass when that happened. That didn't happen when he was RECRUITED. Derrick Rose allegedly had someone take his SAT for him. DERRICK ROSE. Why is it that as thorough as the NCAA is when they investigate potential violations, he still has a job and hasn't been reprimanded at all ? The school's were sanctioned because of lack of institutional control basically telling them they should have control over every decision 18-22 year olds make even when they're not a member of the university yet or are not under the head coach's supervision.

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You didn't even understand my question. Do some basic research on Calipari and the "business" people he has befriended and utilized to establish his high school to nba pipeline.

Butch McCrae's mom got a real nice tractor.