It seems to me that lots of folks posting on this board have a defeatist attitude about who we can attract to replace Montgomery. Many seem to feel that the Cal basketball head coaching job is not that attractive for reasons including relatively low compensation, lack of recent success, academic challenges make recruiting hard, suboptimal practice facilities, etc. However, Cal is a great university, it is located in a wonderful place to live, the local high school talent pool is very strong and deep, and the Pac12 is a premier basketball conference with high visibility that places a lot of teams in the NCAA tournament each year. I can't help but believe that somewhere out there a great candidate with a very strong resume exists who would find the Cal MBB HC job very attractive.

It is a very good job at an elite school. It is also an unusually challenging job. With those two things in mind, it is a very small (tiny?) pool of established/successful coaches we are going to convince to leave something less challenging, yet still very rewarding, for us. That said, if your front runner is in house, this matters less.

GoCal80;842301432 said:

---

It seems to me that lots of folks posting on this board have a defeatist attitude about who we can attract to replace Montgomery. Many seem to feel that the Cal basketball head coaching job is not that attractive for reasons including relatively low compensation, lack of recent success, academic challenges make recruiting hard, suboptimal practice facilities, etc. However, Cal is a great university, it is located in a wonderful place to live, the local high school talent pool is very strong and deep, and the Pac12 is a premier basketball conference with high visibility that places a lot of teams in the NCAA tournament each year. I can't help but believe that somewhere out there a great candidate with a very strong resume exists who would find the Cal MBB HC job very attractive.

---

I too believe we will wind up with a quality head coach, and that Cal is a good head coaching opportunity. That being said the "defeatist attitude" comes from the disparity of the quality of student in the major sports (FB and BB) and those in the minor sports where there are multiple excellent students who are good athletes from which to pick. Not the same in FB and BB, and as a result, a coach must "baby sit" academics way too much, for Cal is a tough place to hang if you are not involved in your academics. Other institutions, not so. And our faculty has been notoriously unforgiving with jocks over the years. Thus the reputation.

Where does it fit in the pac-12 hierarchy of "most-desirable" from a coach's point of view?
Here's mine:

AZ
UCLA
Oregon
UW
Stanford,
CU
Cal?
USC
ASU
Utah
OSU
WSU

The University of California and the surrounding area is a very desirable place to live and work. If there's one thing that I think makes it less desirable in the minds of many is the fact FB or MBB are not kings of campus, and thus a coach/program gets what they get and that's it. No special treatment, no looking the other way, no extra status.

Now add on the extra factors; sink or swim academic, jocks often looked down at, hardcore politics about academic funding, etc., i.e., the culture isn't jock culture but nerd/academic culture. That's what you get when you load up your faculty with the best and have them fight for resources.

HC coaches in the rest of the country are looked up to. Even at equally apathetic places like Furd, at least athletics gets major backing and support. That's not Cal.

That said, I think Cal can get their coach, a good coach but they'll need to look deep and luck out a bit...like Tedford. Yes, Tedford lost it at the end but he was the prototypical example of a good Cal hire: Pac10 experience, West Coast ties, intellectual, smart, workoholic, under the radar and the ability to build a program. Yes things went amok but before the facilities, Tedford had it.

I think Cal's best chance is to find a builder, a younger guy who can stay for 15-20 years and build things up. It's easy to fall in love with Cal and the Bay Area...just have to find a guy who will put down roots, will put in the work, loves Cal and can win.

In my mind, getting a long term builder is the only way to elevate MBB because even a high powered and compatible re-thread (like Monty) has a limited shelf life. Cal should be looking for long termer.

RicoRico;842301440 said:

---

Where does it fit in the pac-12 hierarchy of "most-desirable" from a coach's point of view?
Here's mine:

AZ
UCLA
Oregon
UW
Stanford,
CU
Cal?
USC
ASU
Utah
OSU
WSU

---

Lower CU. It is a football school and the administration/trustees get involved in sports to a high degree. Tad is living la vida loca right now. Wait till he pulls 13 wins and trustees start calling him to offer game plans.

beelzebear;842301444 said:

---

The University of California and the surrounding area is a very desirable place to live and work. If there's one thing that I think makes it less desirable in the minds of many is the fact FB or MBB are not kings of campus, and thus a coach/program gets what they get and that's it. No special treatment, no looking the other way, no extra status.

Now add on the extra factors; sink or swim academic, jocks often looked down at, hardcore politics about academic funding, etc., i.e., the culture isn't jock culture but nerd/academic culture. That's what you get when you load up your faculty with the best and have them fight for resources.

HC coaches in the rest of the country are looked up to. Even at equally apathetic places like Furd, at least athletics gets major backing and support. That's not Cal.

That said, I think Cal can get their coach, a good coach but they'll need to look deep and luck out a bit...like Tedford. Yes, Tedford lost it at the end but he was the prototypical example of a good Cal hire: Pac10 experience, West Coast ties, intellectual, smart, workoholic, under the radar and the ability to build a program. Yes things went amok but before the facilities, Tedford had it.

I think Cal's best chance is to find a builder, a younger guy who can stay for 15-20 years and build things up. It's easy to fall in love with Cal and the Bay Area...just have to find a guy who will put down roots, will put in the work, loves Cal and can win.

In my mind, getting a long term builder is the only way to elevate MBB because even a high powered and compatible re-thread (like Monty) has a limited shelf life. Cal should be looking for long termer.

---

+1. In this context, people forget that it took John Wooden a lot of years to build his program at UCLA; and, although it was another time, I don't think that the dynamic of building credibility is actually much different. When Wooden arrived at Westwood, he was a young man, without much if any head coaching experience; and Westwood was a good 3,000 miles away from the then-centers of the college basketball universe; and UCLA (not to mention Wooden's personality) was far from Basket Weaving State College. It wasn't until, somehow, for some reason, Walt Hazzard I guess decided he'd rather live closer to the beach than Philly (and maybe saw something in Wooden and a quality education) that UCLA had anything approaching any meaningful cred. Cal, even as described above, is a lot closer than when Wooden came to UCLA; and this year, of all years (with Arkansas beating Kentucky twice, and us twice beating Arkansas convincingly, if not even easily, shows how close our guys could be, with the right chemistry.

I also would put Stanfurd lower. Except for the Monty years, there has been no buzz about Stanfurd hoops, EVER. Maples is the smallest venue in the P12 and rarely sells out; women's hoops often outdraws the men. I'd put Cal in a tie w/ Oregon and UW (although Oregon's money may push them ahead), followed by CU and Stanfurd.

We are an intellectual hottie.

KoreAmBear;842301581 said:

---

We are an intellectual hottie.

---

No pics? I don't believe it.

CALiforniALUM;842301587 said:

---

No pics? I don't believe it.

---

Forgive her for wearing red.

Many here are overstating what this job is. Cal hasn't been to the Sweet 16 since 1997 and a Final Four in 50 years. The challenges... recruiting, academics, etc... have been discussed ad nauseum.

At best, this is currently a middle of the pack Pac-12 program.

LocoOso;842301603 said:

---

Many here are overstating what this job is. Cal hasn't been to the Sweet 16 since 1997 and a Final Four in 50 years. The challenges... recruiting, academics, etc... have been discussed ad nauseum.

At best, this is currently a middle of the pack Pac-12 program.

---

Not really. Most posts are about Howland/TD etc. Not very many people over selling the program or thinking we have a shot at a top tier coach. No one has really said we're anything better than middle of the pack.

A couple people seem to think Cal is in a position to land someone big, but they're few and mostly wishful.

If I were the AD recruiting a HC at Cal - I'd stress certain 'unique' opportunities and play down others. Albeit the competition can do the same - that's the beauty of playing up opportunities - sky's the limit..

Opportunities:

For a young up and comer.... This thing could blow up!! Compare to Florida/Billy Donovan. With success can come great fan support. Once Cal is at the top, the Bear Area (see what I did there?) has weather/culture/etc to beat out the rest!!!

For a mature coach.... Look what Mike Montgomery did. Retired on his own terms.

Play down:

Not a strong bball history (a la UNC, Kansas, etc)
Not a basketball first vs football school
Not the same level of blind community support as Kentucky for example.

:Lindsay

GoCal80;842301432 said:

---

It seems to me that lots of folks posting on this board have a defeatist attitude about who we can attract to replace Montgomery. Many seem to feel that the Cal basketball head coaching job is not that attractive for reasons including relatively low compensation, lack of recent success, academic challenges make recruiting hard, suboptimal practice facilities, etc. However, Cal is a great university, it is located in a wonderful place to live, the local high school talent pool is very strong and deep, and the Pac12 is a premier basketball conference with high visibility that places a lot of teams in the NCAA tournament each year. I can't help but believe that somewhere out there a great candidate with a very strong resume exists who would find the Cal MBB HC job very attractive.

---

As the author of three different "Mark Few is not coming"-style posts, I feel like this is directed at me. But I guess the other replies here make my response for me: Cal is a middle of the Pac(k) job, and probably about the same nationally. My point was that the big name mid-major coaches, the Smarts and Fews (no pun intended), are generally either happy where they are, or are going to hold out for one of the elite jobs. And judging from this thread pretty much everyone else knows that's true -- except the people who kept asking things like "why not Gregg Marshall?" The answer to that question, we can now see, is "because he's not coming."

I'm not saying that Cal can't get a coach that will move it up the hierarchy so that it's seen as a better program generally, and a better job in the future. But we're not going to be able to do that by hiring Archie Miller.

Also, I can't help adding that if we had some other AD that wasn't Sandy then Archie Miller still wouldn't be coming.

socaliganbear;842301608 said:

---

Not really. Most posts are about Howland/TD etc. Not very many people over selling the program or thinking we have a shot at a top tier coach. No one has really said we're anything better than middle of the pack.

A couple people seem to think Cal is in a position to land someone big, but they're few and mostly wishful.

---

Except...and here is the thing (which, sadly, is seeming to makes no difference)

THIS IS NOT A REBUILD FROM SCRATCH EFFORT.

Now 75 to 90% of the power conference jobs in any year are "well we just one 11 games and our coach has a horrible class coming in cause no one wanted to play for him. Here is your W-4 to fill out, good luck....and it would be nice to make the tournament next year."

We just won 21 games. Did "OK" in the Nitwit. Have a good group of frosh here and a decent (if not great) class coming in. If you want to move up from the mid-majors this SHOULD be a good opportunity (and a lot better than if you are taking over a program in deep deep caca).

Honestly, this may be just awful timing. There is such uncertainty right now in the NCAA. What will happen with paying players. What is going to occur with Mid-majors and competitiveness. What about coaches like Bo, Coach K, Calipari, even Roy Williams in the next 2-3 years. It could be that we just are in a rotten timing - cause normally if you said a power conference school with its own TV network had an opening after winning 21 games it would be a slam dunk.

socaltownie;842301615 said:

---

Except...and here is the thing (which, sadly, is seeming to makes no difference)

THIS IS NOT A REBUILD FROM SCRATCH EFFORT.

Now 75 to 90% of the power conference jobs in any year are "well we just one 11 games and our coach has a horrible class coming in cause no one wanted to play for him. Here is your W-4 to fill out, good luck....and it would be nice to make the tournament next year."

We just won 21 games. Did "OK" in the Nitwit. Have a good group of frosh here and a decent (if not great) class coming in. If you want to move up from the mid-majors this SHOULD be a good opportunity (and a lot better than if you are taking over a program in deep deep caca).

Honestly, this may be just awful timing. There is such uncertainty right now in the NCAA. What will happen with paying players. What is going to occur with Mid-majors and competitiveness. What about coaches like Bo, Coach K, Calipari, even Roy Williams in the next 2-3 years. It could be that we just are in a rotten timing - cause normally if you said a power conference school with its own TV network had an opening after winning 21 games it would be a slam dunk.

---

Yeah, but this is now the 2nd of the two major rev sports that opens up at Cal and it's pretty clear where we stand in the grand scheme of desirable jobs. One job had new state of the art facilities and power conference status, with not much "win big now" pressure to speak of, the other is a decent, certainly healthy, bball program also in a power conference, and yet at the end of the day we're still going to end up with two risky/roll the dice kind of hires. Of course this is a small sample size, and there are other factors, but a lot of this is just Cal, and everything that entails.

socaltownie;842301615 said:

---

Except...and here is the thing (which, sadly, is seeming to makes no difference)

THIS IS NOT A REBUILD FROM SCRATCH EFFORT.

Now 75 to 90% of the power conference jobs in any year are "well we just one 11 games and our coach has a horrible class coming in cause no one wanted to play for him. Here is your W-4 to fill out, good luck....and it would be nice to make the tournament next year."

We just won 21 games. Did "OK" in the Nitwit. Have a good group of frosh here and a decent (if not great) class coming in. If you want to move up from the mid-majors this SHOULD be a good opportunity (and a lot better than if you are taking over a program in deep deep caca).

Honestly, this may be just awful timing. There is such uncertainty right now in the NCAA. What will happen with paying players. What is going to occur with Mid-majors and competitiveness. What about coaches like Bo, Coach K, Calipari, even Roy Williams in the next 2-3 years. It could be that we just are in a rotten timing - cause normally if you said a power conference school with its own TV network had an opening after winning 21 games it would be a slam dunk.

---

socaliganbear;842301623 said:

---

Yeah, but this is now the 2nd of the two major rev sports that opens up at Cal and it's pretty clear where we stand in the grand scheme of desirable jobs. One job had new state of the art facilities and power conference status, with not much "win big now" pressure to speak of, the other is a decent, certainly healthy, bball program also in a power conference, and yet at the end of the day we're still going to end up with two risky/roll the dice kind of hires. Of course this is a small sample size, and there are other factors, but a lot of this is just Cal, and everything that entails.

---

Reading this makes me, as a die hard Cal fan almost want to cry. Why us? Why do our rev sport coaching hires have to be akin to selling property on a radioactive dump site.

They're, as usual laffin' their asses off over on the cardbored about this.

socaliganbear;842301623 said:

---

Yeah, but this is now the 2nd of the two major rev sports that opens up at Cal and it's pretty clear where we stand in the grand scheme of desirable jobs. One job had new state of the art facilities and power conference status, with not much "win big now" pressure to speak of, the other is a decent, certainly healthy, bball program also in a power conference, and yet at the end of the day we're still going to end up with two risky/roll the dice kind of hires. Of course this is a small sample size, and there are other factors, but a lot of this is just Cal, and everything that entails.

---

I think if this is the best we can do you are absolutely right. Now when Sonny D was hired the world was the opposite. There were a TON of great jobs opened up. Indeed, I have argued that the smart thing to do, with the market situation, was to hold nose and give Tedford another year. It was that bad. But this is horrible.

socaltownie;842301635 said:

---

I think if this is the best we can do you are absolutely right. Now when Sonny D was hired the world was the opposite. There were a TON of great jobs opened up. Indeed, I have argued that the smart thing to do, with the market situation, was to hold nose and give Tedford another year. It was that bad. But this is horrible.

---

There's a lot of truth to that. But another thing to consider, the year before our fb change, there were 4 total openings in our own conference. And somehow they all managed to upgrade significantly. . . . Then again, who knows, Dykes may turn out to be an upgrade in a season or two.

socaliganbear;842301641 said:

---

Then again, who knows, Dykes may turn out to be an upgrade in a season or two.

---

:rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh:

BeachedBear;842301892 said:

---

:rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh:

---

I think sonny is over his head and we are going to struggle again but I will say one thing - he at least is TRYING to make changes. The Stubborn thing would have been to blame injuries and the bad eggs and keep doing the same thing. It will be very interesting to see how the guys come out and play in August. Yup, time to start pumping and keeping hope alive!!!!

socaltownie;842301896 said:

---

I think sonny is over his head and we are going to struggle again but I will say one thing - he at least is TRYING to make changes. The Stubborn thing would have been to blame injuries and the bad eggs and keep doing the same thing. It will be very interesting to see how the guys come out and play in August. Yup, time to start pumping and keeping hope alive!!!!

---

And tailgate harder!! :beer:

There is also a lot less competition for athletes in minor sports since many FB/BB powers participate in them sparingly. And since, most minors present limited pro options, education is a much more important element of the decision of where to go to college.

The Cal program is a sleeping giant. despite of its lack of funds, facilites and fan support, if the right coach comes in here, and sells it as a national program, recruits on a national basis, it can recruit in the revenue sports with the other " public ivies", who balance academics and athletics. Michigan, UNC, UVA, UCLA ....it can be done but Cal needs attitude adjustment from the president to its coaches...
it has a bevy of athletes within a hour drive of campus , great academics and the most perfect weather in the country. bring a kid from the Midwest here during january...he gets off the plane carrying a ski parka and immediately changes into shorts and flip flops....

R.Hobbs;842301939 said:

---

The Cal program is a sleeping giant. despite of its lack of funds, facilites and fan support, if the right coach comes in here, and sells it as a national program, recruits on a national basis, it can recruit in the revenue sports with the other " public ivies", who balance academics and athletics. Michigan, UNC, UVA, UCLA ....it can be done but Cal needs attitude adjustment from the president to its coaches...
it has a bevy of athletes within a hour drive of campus , great academics and the most perfect weather in the country. bring a kid from the Midwest here during january...he gets off the plane carrying a ski parka and immediately changes into shorts and flip flops....

---

+1 Happy to see someone finally pointing this out; and, as we all know, there is much more to be said about the virtues of this place attractive to all manner of ambitious student athletes.