Kinda OT: Kawhi Leonard

3,917 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 11 yr ago by BeggarEd
HoopDreams
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every time I see Kawhi Leonard I'm just awed

today he scored a career-high 29 points on 11-13 shooting and played some very good defense again

When Cal played SDSU with Leonard, they were #14 in the nation and undefeated. Leonard led SDSU over Cal by scoring 20 points on 8-14 shooting, but I don't recall seeing a future NBA super star on the court
south bender
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Not yet an NBA superstar, but he well could be becoming one.

I love his humility, the way he lets his play do the talking.

Go Bears!
bigcocoon007
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If you are awed by Leonard, how do you react when watching Lebron or Durant?
south bender
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bigcocoon007;842323758 said:

If you are awed by Leonard, how do you react when watching Lebron or Durant?


Durant does not play defense at an all star level. James and Leonard do.

I love Durant at the offensive end, not so much when he defends.

Go Bears!
seattlebear02
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Let this sink in...we took Bak Bak over Kawhi Leonard....

:headbang:facepalm
calumnus
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seattlebear02;842323762 said:

Let this sink in...we took Bak Bak over Kawhi Leonard....

:headbang:facepalm


Yep, here is the L.A. Times article on his commitment to San Diego State. Mentions Cal showing "only mild interest": LINK

Big part of the growth of the San Diego State program over the last 5 years.
bigcocoon007
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We fired Tedord to hire Dykes.

Let that sink in.
south bender
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HoopDreams;842323706 said:

every time I see Kawhi Leonard I'm just awed

today he scored a career-high 29 points on 11-13 shooting and played some very good defense again

When Cal played SDSU with Leonard, they were #14 in the nation and undefeated. Leonard led SDSU over Cal by scoring 20 points on 8-14 shooting, but I don't recall seeing a future NBA super star on the court


Leonard really was a superstar, at least in game 3. No one was more important in James's committing a career high 7 turnovers. He played great position defense, used his long reach and huge and quick hands to prevent James from getting totally comfortable offensively, while shooting lights out himself (I think 29 points on, what, 13 shots).

How anyone cannot love the basketball played in the NBA Finals is beyond me.

Go Bears!
bigcocoon007
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Yup - don't eally pay attention to the regular season however the three of the last 4 NBA finals have been great!
wifeisafurd
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south bender;842323717 said:

Not yet an NBA superstar, but he well could be becoming one.

I love his humility, the way he lets his play do the talking.

Go Bears!


Certainly not at James level yet. But he is an excellent young players who se teammates make him look good as well, and he could become an elite player with greater consistency. Whoever does player evaluations for SA is awesome.
south bender
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wifeisafurd;842323795 said:

Whoever does player evaluations for SA is awesome.


Pretty amazing how they have put together such a team.

They were totally lucky to get Duncan back when.

However, since then their success has been a lot more than luck and is amazing.

Another team that has not yet reached the level of the Spurs and Heat is OKC, where player evaluation has been really top drawer, also.

Brains matter.

Go Bears!
socaltownie
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calumnus;842323768 said:

Yep, here is the L.A. Times article on his commitment to San Diego State. Mentions Cal showing "only mild interest": LINK

Big part of the growth of the San Diego State program over the last 5 years.


But hey, I took slings and arrows for years bringing up this point and using it to defend my frustration with the lazy (and that is the right term) attitude toward recruiting of the last regime.

Does anyone who has been following the current group now get the contrast? Night and Day.
calumnus
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socaltownie;842323807 said:

But hey, I took slings and arrows for years bringing up this point and using it to defend my frustration with the lazy (and that is the right term) attitude toward recruiting of the last regime.

Does anyone who has been following the current group now get the contrast? Night and Day.


I agree, it is a 180 degree difference, not just in effort but in personality, but I will let you debate those on this board who take exception to any observation/assertion that Martin is a better recruiter than Monty. I am done with that--I am just going to enjoy the current and developing state of Cal basketball recruiting.
HoopDreams
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bigcocoon007;842323758 said:

If you are awed by Leonard, how do you react when watching Lebron or Durant?


'Awed' might be the wrong word
Impressed and surprised is probably more accurate
Lebron came in with all the hype, but I don't recall much buzz about Leonard. I think he is only in his 2nd or maybe 3rd year, and don't know where he went in the draft.

I love his game. Athletic slasher, great defender, humble and based on his last game, maybe a shooter too. He also seems clutch

My disclaimer is I don't watch a lot of NBA games, and zero during the regular season
bluesaxe
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socaltownie;842323807 said:

But hey, I took slings and arrows for years bringing up this point and using it to defend my frustration with the lazy (and that is the right term) attitude toward recruiting of the last regime.

Does anyone who has been following the current group now get the contrast? Night and Day.

Who else offered Leonard?
bluesaxe
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HoopDreams;842323706 said:

every time I see Kawhi Leonard I'm just awed

today he scored a career-high 29 points on 11-13 shooting and played some very good defense again

When Cal played SDSU with Leonard, they were #14 in the nation and undefeated. Leonard led SDSU over Cal by scoring 20 points on 8-14 shooting, but I don't recall seeing a future NBA super star on the court

When Cal played SDSU Leonard was a lousy shooter. Then he met Chip Engelland. Check this article out.

http://grantland.com/features/the-shot-doctor/
btsktr
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My dad is an alum of SDSU, I watched a lot of Leonard in college (the games against BYU during Jimmer Mania were some of the most entertaining college games I have watched). While watching him I always thought he would be an NBA all star. I also thought that if he improved his offensive game, he would be a superstar. I don't think he is there yet but he is well on his way.

I really wanted the Warriors to draft him at 7, but they drafted Klay Thompson instead (Leonard was drafted 15). The Warriors GM at the time, Larry Riley, basically said that they didn't even consider him. Watching him in college, he was already an elite defender and rebounder. You could tell that in the NBA he would be able to guard the superstars of the game. He was always a very fluid athlete, who had exceptional length with his arms and hands.

On the recruiting side, he was very underrated. Because he was from Riverside his competition did not include the traditional LA basketball powers. But late in senior year his recruitment started to pick up. Then he played Mater Dei (then the #1 team in the country) in the sectional championships. The Wear twins were on that Mater Dei team. He had 12 points, 20 rebounds, 6 blocks, and 3 steals. After this game traditional basketball powers like UNC, UCLA, etc. started knocking on his door. But he had already signed his LOI to SDSU and he honored it. His senior year he was named Mr. Basketball.
gobears7
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south bender;842323761 said:

Durant does not play defense at an all star level. James and Leonard do.

I love Durant at the offensive end, not so much when he defends.

Go Bears!


Durant massively improved his D this year and LeBron slacked. I would say Durant was a better defender this year than LeBron, and could easily continue to be going forward as he reaches his peak and LeBron enters his 30s. Even if you want to argue that LeBron and Leonard are better, Durant was with them this year as one of the best in the league, definitely all-star level. He'll make an all defensive team soon, if not next year. The narrative just hasn't caught up.
jyamada
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gobears7;842323864 said:

Durant massively improved his D this year and LeBron slacked. I would say Durant was a better defender this year than LeBron, and could easily continue to be going forward as he reaches his peak and LeBron enters his 30s. Even if you want to argue that LeBron and Leonard are better, Durant was with them this year as one of the best in the league, definitely all-star level. He'll make an all defensive team soon, if not next year. The narrative just hasn't caught up.



I agree with this assessment. I think if Durant decides to play some D, there aren't many who will be able to consistently score off of him .
bearister
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seattlebear02;842323762 said:

Let this sink in...we took Bak Bak over Kawhi Leonard....

:headbang:facepalm


What about Damian Lillard? No Pac 12 interest? And they pay guys to be talent evaluators? Way to shine.
bluesaxe
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btsktr;842323861 said:

My dad is an alum of SDSU, I watched a lot of Leonard in college (the games against BYU during Jimmer Mania were some of the most entertaining college games I have watched). While watching him I always thought he would be an NBA all star. I also thought that if he improved his offensive game, he would be a superstar. I don't think he is there yet but he is well on his way.

I really wanted the Warriors to draft him at 7, but they drafted Klay Thompson instead (Leonard was drafted 15). The Warriors GM at the time, Larry Riley, basically said that they didn't even consider him. Watching him in college, he was already an elite defender and rebounder. You could tell that in the NBA he would be able to guard the superstars of the game. He was always a very fluid athlete, who had exceptional length with his arms and hands.

On the recruiting side, he was very underrated. Because he was from Riverside his competition did not include the traditional LA basketball powers. But late in senior year his recruitment started to pick up. Then he played Mater Dei (then the #1 team in the country) in the sectional championships. The Wear twins were on that Mater Dei team. He had 12 points, 20 rebounds, 6 blocks, and 3 steals. After this game traditional basketball powers like UNC, UCLA, etc. started knocking on his door. But he had already signed his LOI to SDSU and he honored it. His senior year he was named Mr. Basketball.

I don't think there were many, if any, teams who would have taken Leonard at No. 7. However the difference between guys like Larry Riley and the Spurs group is that the Spurs looked at him and saw that he could play defense right away in the NBA, he's athletic, there's a place in our system for our talent, and we can fix his shot. Riley probably saw a guy who he didn't think would score much and the Warriors at the time didn't have a system and didn't give a damn about defense.

I like Klay just fine though.
sandiegobears
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And rightfully so on the slings and arrows, this is just revisionist history.

Fisher was recruiting Leonard several years before Monty was hired. Monty was hired in April 2008, Leonard formally committed to SDSU in October 2008, but he was a heavy lean prior to that due to the relationship Fisher had built. It would have been a miracle to get Leonard away from SDSU at that point. Further, Monty's rep was also about big men (at the time), not tweeners. If there's anyone to "blame," it might have been Braun. And further, it's fairly well known (despite what the article says) that grades may have been an issue. I think your disappointment about overall Monty recruiting shouldn't be about "missing" Leonard.

We'll agree on one thing: this is all ancient past. The future will be better.
south bender
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gobears7;842323864 said:

Durant massively improved his D this year and LeBron slacked. I would say Durant was a better defender this year than LeBron, and could easily continue to be going forward as he reaches his peak and LeBron enters his 30s. Even if you want to argue that LeBron and Leonard are better, Durant was with them this year as one of the best in the league, definitely all-star level. He'll make an all defensive team soon, if not next year. The narrative just hasn't caught up.


I watch little of the regular 82 game season, as I am much more focused then on the Bears. So no comment about James and Durant during the 82 game season.

However, I have watched both LeBron and Durant extensively in the playoffs. I did not make my remarks based on any "narrative," but rather what I have seen over many games.

There James and Leonard have been defensive all stars, in keeping with their making, respectively, first and second team all NBA defense. James has been a huge defensive factor, both in the East finals and again playing San Antonio. Leonard, also, though he has the tougher assignment, trying to control, bother, slow down James, who must have him by 30 or 40 pounds of muscle. Kawhi did it better than I could have imagined last game, but was not nearly as good against LeBron in the first two games. Leonard was also a factor in his defense of Durant, when he guarded him in the previous series.

On the other hand, Durant, particularly when he plays the 4, does not play defense at an all star level. Did you see him against San Antonio, when he was fairly abused by Diaw? I thought it even carried over to his his offense, where he appeared tired or simply knocked off his rhythm by the demands of defending a stronger guy.

I make these comments, despite my love of Durant the guy and his game. I have never warmed up to James the man, or the bullish part of his game, so don't love it to admit that he is the best player in the NBA and a dominant defender.

Durant, though so beautiful to watch with his incredibly quick and soft jumper, his variety of shots closer to and at the basket, his (usually) excellent ball handling, is still a skinny guy. More muscled for sure, but not yet (if ever) built to play strong in the post, especially on defense.

As for perimeter or tweener defenders, I would be surprised if Durant ever surpasses Leonard or George of Indiana, both of whom are on the upswing and are younger than Kevin is.
btsktr
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A few days late but what a turnaround for him in the finals to eventually win MVP. Watching every televised game while he was at SDSU, I could see that he had the potential to be a superstar. It doesn't hurt him that he ended up in the best NBA organization.

Back to his high school recruitment, I don't know if he had bad grades or not. But I do know that his father was murdered during his junior year of high school. I think it is fair to assume that his father's murder could have had a negative effect on his academics. From what coaches have said about him and the times I have heard him speak, he seems to be a reserved but very determined athlete.
BeggarEd
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bigcocoon007;842323774 said:

We fired Tedord to hire Dykes.

Let that sink in.


Sandy Barbour has been our athletic director for over a decade now.

Let that sink in...
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