Most talented Cal team ever?

6,943 Views | 30 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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Well, again for the record, our current team is not the most talented team ever, IMO. The best was the 1970-71 team. The talent was team MVP Jackie Ridgle (17 pts, 9 rebs), Ansley Truitt (17 pts, 12 rebs), Phil Chenier (17 pts, 6 rebs, 3 assists), Charlie Johnson (14 points, 7 rebs, 4 assists), and John Coughran (10 pts, 8 rebs). Coughran would average 19 points the following year as team captain.

Ridgle was perhaps the best high school player in Arkansas history, averaging 30 points per game, a history which includes Scottie Pippen, Sidney Moncrief, and Derek Fisher.

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2012/03/eddie_miles_jackie_ridgle_it_s_time_for_southern_states_to_to_integrate_their_high_school_basketball_record_books_.html

Cal had landed perhaps the two best players in the Bay Area, Ansley Truitt of Wilson, and Phil Chenier of Berkeley. Chenier regulary scored 30 or 40 points in his games. Truitt regularly scored 20 points and got 15 rebounds in high school. In the 1968 Tournament of Champions, Chenier shattered the single game scoring record, scoring 42 points against McClymonds. Wilson defeated Berkeley in the TOC Final, behind Truitt's 21 points and 19 rebounds, while Chenier got 24 points. John Coughran of Piedmont High was another fine local player, and was San Jose Mercury-News Player of the Year in 1969. Charles Johnson was another standout local player at Sequoia High, and also won the CCS long jump title.

Johnson would win two NBA Championships, one as starter, and Chenier would win one. Ridgle and Coughran were drafted and played a year in the NBA. Truitt would play a year in the ABA and play several years in France.

They were the highest scoring Cal team ever, averaging 83.9 points per game, and no other Cal team is even close. They were the highest rebounding Cal team ever, averaging 54.1 rebounds per game. They averaged 16.2 assists per game, 11th all-time among Cal teams.

Still, they underachieved, 16-9 overall and 8-6, tied for 3rd in the PAC8.

It is one of the most difficult tasks for a coach, to get talented players to play together, and to play defense and accomplish something. Such players are used to being the "go-to" guy on their high school teams, and it hard to sacrifice some of one's ego for the sake of team. The '71 Bears never figured it out, and the current coach and team are struggling with it, too.

To be fair, Rabb and Brown are freshmen. On the '71 team, Ridgle and Johnson were seniors, Truitt and Chenier were juniors and Coughran was a sophomore, a much older and more experienced team. One would hope that if Rabb and Brown stick around a year or two more, they will figure things out. But the '71 team never did. The '71 coach, Jim Padgett, had an easier time of it than Martin has: He had a talented player at all five positions. He had a true point guard, a true shooting guard, a true small forward, a true power forward, and a true center. Martin has no true point guard starting, and centers with few skills or experience. When Cal plays a good team, Martin is almost playing 3 against 5, in terms of starting five good players qualified for their position. I hope Martin is a better coach than Padgett was. He will have to be much better, if this team is to be successful this year or next.
UrsaMajor
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I certainly agree that this year's team is not the "most talented ever," although I think the 92-93 team has to get some consideration, with Jason Kidd, Lamond Murray, Monte Buckley, and Brian Hendrick. Of course, they, like the 70-71 group, had a "less-than-excellent" coach.
tsubamoto2001
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I had a feeling this post was coming.

Definitely not bagging on SFCB, but there is no one more nostalgic about the past than he is, and that is his right. It sure is a different perspective, which I welcome and I learn a little more that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Perhaps this isn't Cal's "most talented" team in program history, but in the last twenty-five years, it's got to be in the top 2 or 3.
CalEnviroLaw
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1995-1996

Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Ed Gray
Michael Stewart
Al Grigsby
Sean Marks
Jelani Gardner
Tremaine Fowlkes
Prentice McGruder
Anwar McQueen
Tony Gonzalez
Kenyon Jones
Randy Duck
UrsaMajor
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True. Although of this group, only Shareef was successful in the NBA.
CalEnviroLaw
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UrsaMajor;842632201 said:

True. Although of this group, only Shareef was successful in the NBA.


But several of those guys had multi-year NBA careers. So, I guess "successful" is pretty subjective.

We can probably agree that the '95-'96 team seriously underachieved.
UrsaMajor
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Actually, we can agree that ALL of the "most talented" Cal teams underachieved.
tsubamoto2001
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CalEnviroLaw;842632196 said:

1995-1996

Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Ed Gray
Michael Stewart
Al Grigsby
Sean Marks
Jelani Gardner
Tremaine Fowlkes
Prentice McGruder
Anwar McQueen
Tony Gonzalez
Kenyon Jones
Randy Duck


Yeah, I'd have to say this squad has more talent than our current one. Two elite level scorers, you got athletic bigs, burly bigs, a quick PG, a big PG, a shooter in Duck, a tough enforcer in Tony G, a 3/4 in Fowlkes. This team murked a good Arizona team in the Coliseum that season. The problem was, most of the players had not come into their own at that time other than Shareef and Bozeman just wasn't good enough at the time (not that he ever would have been). Looking back at it, a lot of the names on that list did go on to have some success at some level.
bearister
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Jason Kidd's team would have shredded all Cal teams in my opinion. He made everyone on the team better. He was the floor coach. And Lamond was not exactly chopped liver. Jason had the same effect on his NBA teams.
UrsaMajor
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Except that Bozeman was coach and a past master at getting the least out of his teams.
bearister
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UrsaMajor;842632225 said:

Except that Bozeman was coach and a past master at getting the least out of his teams.


I am sure Kidd paid no attention to any coaching input Bozeman had. Just like Peyton Manning.
DrDanger
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Wooden supposedly privately confided in people close to the Bruin program back then that if had that team, he would have beaten his own team of Sidney Wicks, Curtis Rowe, Steve Patterson, Henry Bibby and Kenny Booker.....
Jim Padgett was a terrible coach.
bluesaxe
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Perhaps, but he couldn't manage to out-coach Bennett at UWGB.

bearister;842632247 said:

I am sure Kidd paid no attention to any coaching input Bozeman had. Just like Peyton Manning.
FloriDreaming
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Yah, 1995-96 and 92-93, 93-94 teams were loaded with talent and massively underperformed thanks to lousy (and it turned out later, also corrupt) coaching. Braun had a couple very talented teams as well that also underperformed, though he was able to coach Bozeman's second string to a Sweet Sixteen.

It's clear Cal can be a draw for very talented players. But, man, it's been tough finding that special formula in coaching. Either our coaches can coach but can't recruit or can recruit but can't coach. Maybe Martin can figure it out.

Go Bears!
FloriDreaming
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bearister;842632222 said:

Jason Kidd's team would have shredded all Cal teams in my opinion. He made everyone on the team better. He was the floor coach. And Lamond was not exactly chopped liver. Jason had the same effect on his NBA teams.


LOL. Kidd's team would have beaten the 70s team, the Shreef team, our current team, and lose every game to Monty's teams. And go 50-50 against Braun's teams. That 93-94 team has to go down in history as the greatest wasted potential in the history of college sports. Any mediocre coach would have taken that team to the Final Four. Instead we had Bozeman and a first-round dicktrip against UW Green Bay. Pathetic.
Schroeder71
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Cal team that upset Duke was super talented with PF Al Grigsby, C Brian Hendrick, SF Lamond Murray, PG Jason Kidd & SG Akili Jones.
SFCityBear
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Schroeder71;842632491 said:

Cal team that upset Duke was super talented with PF Al Grigsby, C Brian Hendrick, SF Lamond Murray, PG Jason Kidd & SG Akili Jones.


Those were all fine players, but I didn't remember Akili playing that much, so I looked it up. Jerod Haase was the 5th starter, averaging 29 minutes, 7 points, 2 rebounds and 3 assists (2nd on the team behind Kidd). Jones averaged 11 minutes, 4 points, behind the other guard, K.J. Roberts who averaged 12 minutes and 5 points per game.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/california/1993.html
SFCityBear
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CalEnviroLaw;842632196 said:

1995-1996

Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Ed Gray
Michael Stewart
Al Grigsby
Sean Marks
Jelani Gardner
Tremaine Fowlkes
Prentice McGruder
Anwar McQueen
Tony Gonzalez
Kenyon Jones
Randy Duck


These were all fine players, to be sure. I looked up the team stats, and found that three of these players did not play much at all that season:

Tremaine Fowlkes played only 13 games and got hurt.
Sean Marks was hurt, and played in only 12 games, averaging less than 8 minutes in those games.
Al Grigsby was hurt, and played in only 4 games.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/california/1996.html

The Cal website lists the '95-'96 starters were Shareef, Duck, Gonzales, Gardner and McQueen, which is not as I remember it. Did Ed Gray really come off the bench?

Let's compare the '95-'96 team with '70-'71.

The '95-'96 team had one handicap, and that is with Sean Marks hurt, the only true center they had was Yogi Stewart. Their power forward was undersized, and as a result of all this, Shareef had to play 3 positions, center, PF, and SF, or at least that is how I remember it.

With Stewart at center, vs Ansley Truitt, Truitt (17ppg, 12 rpg) was a far better scorer, a far better rebounder that Stewart (3 ppg, 4 rpg). There were no shot block records in Ansley's day, but having seen all his games, he blocked plenty of shots, but somewhat less than Stewart, IMO. Edge to '70-'71

At PF, Gonzales (5 ppg, 5 rpg), can't match John Coughran (10 ppg, 8 rpg). Edge to '70-'71.

At SF, Shareef (21 ppg, 8 rpg) would get the edge over Jackie Ridgle, the senior (17 ppg, 9 rpg). Actually, Ridgle's numbers declined over his 4 years (He averaged 30 ppg as a freshman), with Jim Padgett as coach. I would have loved to see a real-life matchup between the two freshmen, Ridgle and Shareef. Edge to '95-'96

At SG, Ed Gray was the equal as a scorer to Phil Chenier, but nowhere near the playmaker or defender that Chenier was. As a backup SG, Randy Duck would not measure up to Chenier. I would give the edge to the 70-'71 team.

In '95-'96, the PGs were Gardner (9 ppg, 2 rpg, 4 assists), McQueen (3 ppg, 2 rpg, 2 assists), and McGruder (3 ppg, 2 rpg, 3 assists), and a good defender. None of them were the equal of Charles Johnson (14 ppg, 7 rpg, 4 assists) who was a tremendous defender as well.

The '95-96 team had two terrific scorers in Shareef and Gray, and were deeper than the '70-'71 team, but overall I think that with the exception of Shareef, the '70-'71 starters were more talented.
ducky23
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Hard to compare.

There was a time when kids used to stay in school longer, so obviously those teams were going to be more talented.

For instance, that duke team with laettner, hill, and Hurley; those guys would've left much earlier if they played today.

I don't think there will ever be a Tim Duncan again. No way.
bar20
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Uthaithani;842632462 said:

LOL. Kidd's team would have beaten the 70s team, the Shreef team, our current team, and lose every game to Monty's teams. And go 50-50 against Braun's teams. That 93-94 team has to go down in history as the greatest wasted potential in the history of college sports. Any mediocre coach would have taken that team to the Final Four. Instead we had Bozeman and a first-round dicktrip against UW Green Bay. Pathetic.


What about the year before with just about the same team?
bearister
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bluesaxe;842632436 said:

Perhaps, but he couldn't manage to out-coach Bennett at UWGB.


Kidd's team was not the first nor the last great team to get derailed by an overmatched opponent executing the Princeton offense to perfection.
alarsuel
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By recruiting rankings, this is the most talented Cal team, no?
Chabbear
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I remember Cal started the 1982-83 season playing Duke at the Oakland Coliseum in December 1982 when Duke had freshmen (Dawkins, Alarie, Bilas, Henderson) and Cal won with upperclassmen. My friend and I looked at each other, laughed and said at that time, that won't happen again when they get older. Point being, freshmen are freshmen. Our freshmen will get better. However, since that time so long ago, we might not get to see the improvement at Haas but by watching them in the NBA.

The Cal roster had some good players then too.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/california/1983.html

Duke's Roster:

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/season-stats.php?season=1982-83

Go Bears Beat the Cardinal
59bear
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I don't believe Ridgle played varsity as a frosh (Shareef did), so his 30 ppg wouldn't mean much. Also Ridgle was much smaller than Shareef and, head to head, would have had a tough match up. I recall Ridgle as a kind of Adrian Dantley-like baseline scorer who shot a ton of FTs but who wasn't really a particularly good shooter, probably why he got only a cup of coffee in the NBA. Helluva college scorer though.
bearmanpg
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59bear;842632745 said:

I don't believe Ridgle played varsity as a frosh (Shareef did), so his 30 ppg wouldn't mean much. Also Ridgle was much smaller than Shareef and, head to head, would have had a tough match up. I recall Ridgle as a kind of Adrian Dantley-like baseline scorer who shot a ton of FTs but who wasn't really a particularly good shooter, probably why he got only a cup of coffee in the NBA. Helluva college scorer though.



Your correct 59....freshmen played on the freshmen team back then and Padgett was not the coach of the freshmen....
Jeff82
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59bear;842632745 said:

I don't believe Ridgle played varsity as a frosh (Shareef did), so his 30 ppg wouldn't mean much. Also Ridgle was much smaller than Shareef and, head to head, would have had a tough match up. I recall Ridgle as a kind of Adrian Dantley-like baseline scorer who shot a ton of FTs but who wasn't really a particularly good shooter, probably why he got only a cup of coffee in the NBA. Helluva college scorer though.


I saw Ridgle play. Unbelievable leaping ability that got him rebounds a 6'3" forward never should get. That also allowed him to get to the rim. Not so good in the classroom, from what I've been told. Padgett was basically hired for his ability to relate to black players, in the wake of the fiasco of Rene Herrerias, whose preparation (head coach at St. Ignatius High, assistant to Pete Newell) to be a college coach in the mid- to late-1960s was about as inadequate as it could be. Padgett was like Ben Braun to some extent, in that he could recruit good players, but couldn't shape him into a team. He also had the misfortune to coach against UCLA in the Alcindor-Walton era.
Schroeder71
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thankyou-I searched thru the Cal Media Guide but it cut-off a decade before that team. I watched part of the Duke-Cal game and Akili Jones was the 5th Bear in the game. Jerod Haase was a much better player. GO BEARS!


SFCityBear;842632545 said:

Those were all fine players, but I didn't remember Akili playing that much, so I looked it up. Jerod Haase was the 5th starter, averaging 29 minutes, 7 points, 2 rebounds and 3 assists (2nd on the team behind Kidd). Jones averaged 11 minutes, 4 points, behind the other guard, K.J. Roberts who averaged 12 minutes and 5 points per game.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/california/1993.html
UrsaMajor
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Actually Padgett was the coach of the freshmen the year Ridgle was a freshman. He moved to varsity Jackie's sophomore year.
joe amos yaks
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Wasn't C Bob Presley part of that team?
bearmanpg
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joe yaks;842633161 said:

Wasn't C Bob Presley part of that team?


No..Presley played 2 years for Cal after playing in JC...by 1971 he was playing in the Philippine pro league (I saw him over there)...Very troubled life...committed suicide at the age of 29 in Portland Ore.....
HearstMining
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I shot around with Presley one day at Live Oak park, probably '72 or '73. There was the usual hard-nosed halfcourt game going on, but he was quite content to just shoot with a high school kid and chat a little.
SFCityBear
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59bear;842632745 said:

I don't believe Ridgle played varsity as a frosh (Shareef did), so his 30 ppg wouldn't mean much. Also Ridgle was much smaller than Shareef and, head to head, would have had a tough match up. I recall Ridgle as a kind of Adrian Dantley-like baseline scorer who shot a ton of FTs but who wasn't really a particularly good shooter, probably why he got only a cup of coffee in the NBA. Helluva college scorer though.


You are right about most of this. Ridgle averaged 30 points per game while playing for the Cal Frosh that year. I wouldn't discount what the performance was, though, because I attended a lot of Frosh team games in the years I was in school and the competition was often quite good, and not chopped liver. Still, a cut below the varsity. As a soph, Ridgle averaged 20.0 pts, as a junior he averaged 16.6 pts, and as a senior he averaged 17.3 pts. My friends and I who watched Ridgle play for 4 years, felt that his play in his last two years did not measure up to the way he played his first two years.

The comparison to Dantley is pretty good. Ridgle was a guy who could get to the basket and score on a drive against anybody. He was not a good outside shooter, maybe because he didn't have to be, it was so easy for him to score inside. I'm not sure Shareef could stop Ridgle, or Ridgle stop Shareef. Ridgle was a better passer, better handling the ball in the open floor, but Shareef was the better rebounder. Jackie was not a selfish player, whereas, I thought Shareef played mostly by himself. He averaged one assist a game, and I couldn't find any assist records for Ridgle. Shareef would have the edge, maybe a big edge, but I still would have liked to see the matchup in an actual game.
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