I play basketball at a church and one guy is starting to tick many of us off. He is really good and is pretty good sized guy. But what he does is this: when he gets the ball inside the key, he creates space by smacking defenders with his shoulder, his hip, his thigh, or, what really irritates me the most, his butt. Now, I can see if the defender is shuffling over to defend him, but what if the defender is set? This has led to some anger. Last night, there was almost a fist fight over this. He's a really good kid and I don't believe he does it on purpose. I would like to get rules clarification so I can discuss this with his father, who is in charge of opening\closing the church, and hopefully avoid any bad blood created over this. Thank you to all who may reply.

Go Bears!

It's a foul
Even if it's not, it's getting people mad
He's playing in a church league, not the Big East

Foul. Aggressive play is not uncommon in church leagues. And T him up if he objects. Stop it before someone steps on his foot or yanks his shorts down around his knees. It's all in good wholesome fun. Right?

I stopped playing adult leagues when guys 12" taller and 100 lbs heavier started moving me out and I got called for standing my ground (pushed back).

It wasn't when Shaq did it!

Just play the ol 9th green at 9 trick on him. "Next week church league starts at 10pm!!"

you could teach the other players the 'pull the chair' move

How about you all simultaneously drop to the ground and pray for his salvation? Maybe if his own team drops too he will get the hint.

GoOskie;842762005 said:

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I play basketball at a church and one guy is starting to tick many of us off. He is really good and is pretty good sized guy. But what he does is this: when he gets the ball inside the key, he creates space by smacking defenders with his shoulder, his hip, his thigh, or, what really irritates me the most, his butt. Now, I can see if the defender is shuffling over to defend him, but what if the defender is set? This has led to some anger. Last night, there was almost a fist fight over this. He's a really good kid and I don't believe he does it on purpose. I would like to get rules clarification so I can discuss this with his father, who is in charge of opening\closing the church, and hopefully avoid any bad blood created over this. Thank you to all who may reply.

Go Bears!

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I'll play a slight devil's advocate: it's pickup, not professional or otherwise organized basketball. Some bit of contact should be allowed. As pickup has evolved, calling an offensive foul is especially frowned upon.

With that said, there's certainly an amount of bumping/contact that crosses the line and is frowned upon. After all, everyone is there to have fun and it's not fun if someone is overly physical. But without seeing it first hand, and observing the power and amount of contact, I can't quite possible give a ruling here. And, frankly, I don't think anyone else here can, either.

grandmastapoop;842762095 said:

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I'll play a slight devil's advocate: it's pickup, not professional or otherwise organized basketball. Some bit of contact should be allowed. As pickup has evolved, calling an offensive foul is especially frowned upon.

With that said, there's certainly an amount of bumping/contact that crosses the line and is frowned upon. After all, everyone is there to have fun and it's not fun if someone is overly physical. But without seeing it first hand, and observing the power and amount of contact, I can't quite possible give a ruling here. And, frankly, I don't think anyone else here can, either.

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+1

However, if the description given is accurate, the mini-Shaq is pushing it, taking the fun out of the game.

sorry. gotta disagree.

different rec leagues have different 'standards' of physicality. some frown upon almost any physical play.

others might play at a similar physicality as HS (very physical).

same with street ball or playing in the RSF.

what ever 'standard' you generally play maybe different, but very quickly you will figure it out, and if you are way outside that 'standard' you will upset other players.

grandmastapoop;842762095 said:

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I'll play a slight devil's advocate: it's pickup, not professional or otherwise organized basketball. Some bit of contact should be allowed. As pickup has evolved, calling an offensive foul is especially frowned upon.

With that said, there's certainly an amount of bumping/contact that crosses the line and is frowned upon. After all, everyone is there to have fun and it's not fun if someone is overly physical. But without seeing it first hand, and observing the power and amount of contact, I can't quite possible give a ruling here. And, frankly, I don't think anyone else here can, either.

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HoopDreams;842762100 said:

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sorry. gotta disagree.

different rec leagues have different 'standards' of physicality. some frown upon almost any physical play.

others might play at a similar physicality as HS (very physical).

same with street ball or playing in the RSF.

what ever 'standard' you generally play maybe different, but very quickly you will figure it out, and if you are way outside that 'standard' you will upset other players.

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I wouldn't say we disagree, and your point that it seems to have upset the natives is well taken.

grandmastapoop;842762103 said:

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I wouldn't say we disagree, and your point that it seems to have upset the natives is well taken.

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yeah, we probably aren't that far apart

and I would certainly agree with your point that calling offensive fouls are frowned upon. Certainly agree that getting a charge foul in a rec league is near impossible, and trying to get a charge in street ball is flat out dumb

You should hack him (hard) every time he gets in the post. Force him to beat you from the line. Eventually he will stop playing as physical.

GoOskie;842762005 said:

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I play basketball at a church and one guy is starting to tick many of us off. He is really good and is pretty good sized guy. But what he does is this: when he gets the ball inside the key, he creates space by smacking defenders with his shoulder, his hip, his thigh, or, what really irritates me the most, his butt. Now, I can see if the defender is shuffling over to defend him, but what if the defender is set? This has led to some anger. Last night, there was almost a fist fight over this. He's a really good kid and I don't believe he does it on purpose. I would like to get rules clarification so I can discuss this with his father, who is in charge of opening\closing the church, and hopefully avoid any bad blood created over this. Thank you to all who may reply.

Go Bears!

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I've played with guys like that plenty of times, and if he can't see it's a foul through reasonable discussion, then foul him... every time.

He moves you out, you hit his shooting elbow, literally every single time. The game will grind to a halt, and you explain that if he fouls you when you have position, then you are not giving up a layup.

That's where I was headed. It depends a bit on if it's a pickup game, where you don't shoot free throws, or a rec league with refs though. If it's a pickup game, never give the guy a hoop and if he hits too hard just pull him down, take the foul and give him the ball. Of course, that may escalate things, but it makes a point if everyone does it.

UCBerkGrad;842762139 said:

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You should hack him (hard) every time he gets in the post. Force him to beat you from the line. Eventually he will stop playing as physical.

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I appreciate the input from everyone.

Even though these are just pickup games at a church, the games tend to get a little fiery and physical.

I'll show these comments to his father and present my case to him.

Thanks! Go Bears!!!

This thread reminds me of an incident I remember in a pick-up game in New York some years ago. This was among adult professionals, and a good friend of mine (prominent lawyer) was matched up against this big, athletic black dude who was basically blowing by him or shoving him out of the way. My friend started fouling, and the other dude just got more physical. My friend was then determined not to let him score, so basically every time up the floor, he'd hammer the guy all over. He could see that the dude was getting more and more pissed. Finally, on a lay-up, he just grabbed him with both arms, at which point the guy says, "I wouldn't do that again, if I was you." As we came off the court, one of the other players runs up to my friend and says, "What the f*ck were you doing!? Don't you know who that is? It's Jim Brown! You're lucky to be alive."

[U]Every time[/U] he receives the ball double team him. The on-ball defender and help defender should tightly body him with their hands straight up. It will be tougher for him to push two guys off of him and he won't have an easy shot when he takes it. Otherwise, use double teams to keep him from receiving the ball in the first place and let his teammates try and beat you instead.

That happened to me at moscone park in sf once. Guy said I couldn't hold my position w my forearm in his back as he was aggressively backing me down. I told him I've never heard of anyone complain about that in pickup. He was adamant so I told him to just call the fouls---then he looked like an ass for holding up the game.

I'm not gonna lie..I was probably the guy at a pickup game that was kinda rough. Not overtly..but I was an offensive lineman that loved playing basketball lol. I remember me and Raymond King use to play at the YMCA in richmond and I use to just dare him to shoot (partly cause there was no way i was coming out of the key to watch him blow by me lol). So he would get tired of shooting open jumpers eventually and start driving and I'm pretty sure I planted him a few times..but he would pop right back up and we kept playing. Many times big guys..it's just our size that kinda makes it seem rough even if all we're really doing is jumping up and our body is slamming against you lol.