This Could Be a Special Season

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ducky23
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While last year was supposed to be "our year," it was pretty apparent early on that there was just something amiss with the team. And as the season progressed, while there were flashes of brilliance, you never felt comfortable saying that this was a "great" team. Several reasons have been bandied about as to why last years team failed to truly live up to its high expectations (our two most high volume players basically being the same player, lack of depth, lack of a true PG, poor perimeter defense from "certain" players, poor FT shooting, poor passing, etc). But for whatever reason, even if Cal had been 100% healthy during the tournament, I think most here would agree that our ceiling was probably at best a sweet 16 appearance (but most likely a one and done).

This season, in the words of one of Cal basketball's greatest thinkers, is 360 degrees different. (And yes, I know, small sample size, but some things you can just figure out fairly quickly).

- Last year, I believe the biggest problem was the lack of a playmaker. And by playmaker, I mean someone who can break down a defense and either pass or shoot once the opposing defense is in a leveraged position. Sure, Wallace/Brown could get to the paint, but they were often wild forays into the paint that would either result in a forced shot or a TO. Also, they were never in enough control where they could either pass or shoot once they penetrated the defense. This kind of playmaking really doesn't help, because you need to be able to pass once the defense converges around you. Moore, on the other hand, provides that threat. Albeit against UCI, he seemed to be able to get into the lane at will, and with enough control that he should be able to learn to either dish to an interior player or pass out to an open shooter. And my favorite stat from yesterday was 1 TO from Moore. ONE! How many times would you watch Wallace/Brown put their head down and drive into the lane only to turn the ball over. Someone who can actually break down a defense will create so much more room for players like Rabb, Bird and Mullins.

- Depth was also an issue last year. Matthews or/Bird coming off the bench was great, but after that? Last year Singer didn't really get his confidence until pretty late in the season. And there was Okoroh. But that's really it. We went maybe 7 deep with players that Cuonzo could really trust. This year, Singer can provide senior leadership off the bench. Okoroh seems improved. But the biggest difference I see is the play of RMB. He looks like a completely different player. All he needs to do is be respectable on the offensive end, because he does everything else very well. He's what I call a "possessions eater" because he creates so many extra possessions. Its only been two games, but how many times have you seen RMB get an offensive rebound, or go to the floor for a loose ball or get a steal? My favorite part of watching games is just watching RMB sky for offensive rebounds, its like out of nowhere you see this guy just flying over everyone else, its impressive. And then you have Domingo, who is a perfect 9th guy. He's someone that can play defense, and when he's making shots you give him more run, but when he's not, you can afford to sit him because you have enough depth around him.

- Another thing that drove me crazy last year was the poor FT shooting. Those 3-5 points that you give up can make a huge difference in close games. Thankfully, we lose our two biggest culprits from last year in Brown/Wallace (also our top two FTA guys) and replace them with Mullins and Moore. And it even looks like Rooks has improved his FT shooting dramatically, which is big since he should be getting to the line a ton. But the biggest thing here (as others have mentioned) is that we have two ballhandlers now who can close out games from the line (and not turn the ball over). Last year, we had none.

- While our defense was excellent last year, I think we could potentially be elite this year. Cuonzo's defensive strategy (which I love btw) is to run the opposing teams off the 3pt line and funnel them into our interior defenders. The key here, is that they need to be funneled into the right spots. Sometimes, the problem we had last year, is that some of our perimeter defenders just let people get by them, which opened huge seams and got our help defenders out of position. Those main culprits (we know who they are) have moved on. I think it may be too early to say how good Moore is defensively, but I'm pretty confident in saying that Mullins is an extremely fundamentally sound defensive player. He moves his feet extremely well, is rarely out of position and is an excellent help defender. He will probably have trouble with a few elite athletes (like Ball or Dillon), but overall he will be a huge improvement. I also expect to see RMB get a much larger run this year, so the perimeter defense should be improved. So couple that with possibly one of the top 5 interior defenses in the country, and you have the potential to be an elite defense.

- The last thing I will talk about is ball movement. Last year you had two guys who needed to dominate the ball to be effective. I mean, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that your team is going to rely more on one on one type play rather than moving and passing. Thankfully, I think we can move away from that type of offense and into a more ball movement oriented offense that will help create more space. We have already discussed how Moore's ballhandling ability will allow him to penetrate and pass more effectively than our playmakers from last year. But what really stands out to me is Mullins passing ability. He's not flashy like a Jason Kidd. But he's an extremely high IQ passer. He will make the hockey assist (the assist before the assist). Its like chess. You need to see the entire board and anticipate a couple moves ahead. Mullins can do that. Another thing I like is that this team seems to enjoy moving the ball around. Watch that 10 minute stretch when Cal went on a huge run against SDSU. It was like something out of Hoosiers. The ball never touched the ground, it just got passed from one player to another with very little dribbling. It was such a departure from what we saw last year.

In the end, its too hard to tell where the ceiling is for this team. One thing that can be said about last year's team was that, while inconsistent, they had the raw talent to beat the #1 team in the country. I'm not sure you can necessarily say that about this year's team. However, I do think we will be much more consistent this year and, for sure, much more entertaining to watch. That I know for sure. And while I know its early, (but barring injury) I will be very disappointed if this team isn't playing the second week of the tournament.

I have never been as excited as I am now with the long term trajectory of this program.
bearybear
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Love this. I was fired up after last night's game and feel the same across the board. Even though it was UCI, last night's game was the best game I've watched in years
R90
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ducky23;842762975 said:

And my favorite stat from yesterday was 1 TO from Moore. ONE!


That turnover was on a play very early where Moore made a nice move to get into the lane and then made a beautiful pass to Rooks, which should have resulted in an easy dunk. Unfortunately Rooks was looking at the rim and thinking rebound and the pass sailed out of bounds.
89Bear
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ducky23;842762975 said:

While last year was supposed to be "our year," it was pretty apparent early on that there was just something amiss with the team. And as the season progressed, while there were flashes of brilliance, you never felt comfortable saying that this was a "great" team. Several reasons have been bandied about as to why last years team failed to truly live up to its high expectations (our two most high volume players basically being the same player, lack of depth, lack of a true PG, poor perimeter defense from "certain" players, poor FT shooting, poor passing, etc). But for whatever reason, even if Cal had been 100% healthy during the tournament, I think most here would agree that our ceiling was probably at best a sweet 16 appearance (but most likely a one and done).

This season, in the words of one of Cal basketball's greatest thinkers, is 360 degrees different. (And yes, I know, small sample size, but some things you can just figure out fairly quickly).

- Last year, I believe the biggest problem was the lack of a playmaker. And by playmaker, I mean someone who can break down a defense and either pass or shoot once the opposing defense is in a leveraged position. Sure, Wallace/Brown could get to the paint, but they were often wild forays into the paint that would either result in a forced shot or a TO. Also, they were never in enough control where they could either pass or shoot once they penetrated the defense. This kind of playmaking really doesn't help, because you need to be able to pass once the defense converges around you. Moore, on the other hand, provides that threat. Albeit against UCI, he seemed to be able to get into the lane at will, and with enough control that he should be able to learn to either dish to an interior player or pass out to an open shooter. And my favorite stat from yesterday was 1 TO from Moore. ONE! How many times would you watch Wallace/Brown put their head down and drive into the lane only to turn the ball over. Someone who can actually break down a defense will create so much more room for players like Rabb, Bird and Mullins.

- Depth was also an issue last year. Matthews or/Bird coming off the bench was great, but after that? Last year Singer didn't really get his confidence until pretty late in the season. And there was Okoroh. But that's really it. We went maybe 7 deep with players that Cuonzo could really trust. This year, Singer can provide senior leadership off the bench. Okoroh seems improved. But the biggest difference I see is the play of RMB. He looks like a completely different player. All he needs to do is be respectable on the offensive end, because he does everything else very well. He's what I call a "possessions eater" because he creates so many extra possessions. Its only been two games, but how many times have you seen RMB get an offensive rebound, or go to the floor for a loose ball or get a steal? My favorite part of watching games is just watching RMB sky for offensive rebounds, its like out of nowhere you see this guy just flying over everyone else, its impressive. And then you have Domingo, who is a perfect 9th guy. He's someone that can play defense, and when he's making shots you give him more run, but when he's not, you can afford to sit him because you have enough depth around him.

- Another thing that drove me crazy last year was the poor FT shooting. Those 3-5 points that you give up can make a huge difference in close games. Thankfully, we lose our two biggest culprits from last year in Brown/Wallace (also our top two FTA guys) and replace them with Mullins and Moore. And it even looks like Rooks has improved his FT shooting dramatically, which is big since he should be getting to the line a ton. But the biggest thing here (as others have mentioned) is that we have two ballhandlers now who can close out games from the line (and not turn the ball over). Last year, we had none.

- While our defense was excellent last year, I think we could potentially be elite this year. Cuonzo's defensive strategy (which I love btw) is to run the opposing teams off the 3pt line and funnel them into our interior defenders. The key here, is that they need to be funneled into the right spots. Sometimes, the problem we had last year, is that some of our perimeter defenders just let people get by them, which opened huge seams and got our help defenders out of position. Those main culprits (we know who they are) have moved on. I think it may be too early to say how good Moore is defensively, but I'm pretty confident in saying that Mullins is an extremely fundamentally sound defensive player. He moves his feet extremely well, is rarely out of position and is an excellent help defender. He will probably have trouble with a few elite athletes (like Ball or Dillon), but overall he will be a huge improvement. I also expect to see RMB get a much larger run this year, so the perimeter defense should be improved. So couple that with possibly one of the top 5 interior defenses in the country, and you have the potential to be an elite defense.

- The last thing I will talk about is ball movement. Last year you had two guys who needed to dominate the ball to be effective. I mean, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that your team is going to rely more on one on one type play rather than moving and passing. Thankfully, I think we can move away from that type of offense and into a more ball movement oriented offense that will help create more space. We have already discussed how Moore's ballhandling ability will allow him to penetrate and pass more effectively than our playmakers from last year. But what really stands out to me is Mullins passing ability. He's not flashy like a Jason Kidd. But he's an extremely high IQ passer. He will make the hockey assist (the assist before the assist). Its like chess. You need to see the entire board and anticipate a couple moves ahead. Mullins can do that. Another thing I like is that this team seems to enjoy moving the ball around. Watch that 10 minute stretch when Cal went on a huge run against SDSU. It was like something out of Hoosiers. The ball never touched the ground, it just got passed from one player to another with very little dribbling. It was such a departure from what we saw last year.

In the end, its too hard to tell where the ceiling is for this team. One thing that can be said about last year's team was that, while inconsistent, they had the raw talent to beat the #1 team in the country. I'm not sure you can necessarily say that about this year's team. However, I do think we will be much more consistent this year and, for sure, much more entertaining to watch. That I know for sure. And while I know its early, (but barring injury) I will be very disappointed if this team isn't playing the second week of the tournament.

I have never been as excited as I am now with the long term trajectory of this program.




Great post. Love it!!!
mikecohen
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ducky23;842762975 said:

While last year was supposed to be "our year," it was pretty apparent early on that there was just something amiss with the team. And as the season progressed, while there were flashes of brilliance, you never felt comfortable saying that this was a "great" team. Several reasons have been bandied about as to why last years team failed to truly live up to its high expectations (our two most high volume players basically being the same player, lack of depth, lack of a true PG, poor perimeter defense from "certain" players, poor FT shooting, poor passing, etc). But for whatever reason, even if Cal had been 100% healthy during the tournament, I think most here would agree that our ceiling was probably at best a sweet 16 appearance (but most likely a one and done).

This season, in the words of one of Cal basketball's greatest thinkers, is 360 degrees different. (And yes, I know, small sample size, but some things you can just figure out fairly quickly).

- Last year, I believe the biggest problem was the lack of a playmaker. And by playmaker, I mean someone who can break down a defense and either pass or shoot once the opposing defense is in a leveraged position. Sure, Wallace/Brown could get to the paint, but they were often wild forays into the paint that would either result in a forced shot or a TO. Also, they were never in enough control where they could either pass or shoot once they penetrated the defense. This kind of playmaking really doesn't help, because you need to be able to pass once the defense converges around you. Moore, on the other hand, provides that threat. Albeit against UCI, he seemed to be able to get into the lane at will, and with enough control that he should be able to learn to either dish to an interior player or pass out to an open shooter. And my favorite stat from yesterday was 1 TO from Moore. ONE! How many times would you watch Wallace/Brown put their head down and drive into the lane only to turn the ball over. Someone who can actually break down a defense will create so much more room for players like Rabb, Bird and Mullins.

- Depth was also an issue last year. Matthews or/Bird coming off the bench was great, but after that? Last year Singer didn't really get his confidence until pretty late in the season. And there was Okoroh. But that's really it. We went maybe 7 deep with players that Cuonzo could really trust. This year, Singer can provide senior leadership off the bench. Okoroh seems improved. But the biggest difference I see is the play of RMB. He looks like a completely different player. All he needs to do is be respectable on the offensive end, because he does everything else very well. He's what I call a "possessions eater" because he creates so many extra possessions. Its only been two games, but how many times have you seen RMB get an offensive rebound, or go to the floor for a loose ball or get a steal? My favorite part of watching games is just watching RMB sky for offensive rebounds, its like out of nowhere you see this guy just flying over everyone else, its impressive. And then you have Domingo, who is a perfect 9th guy. He's someone that can play defense, and when he's making shots you give him more run, but when he's not, you can afford to sit him because you have enough depth around him.

- Another thing that drove me crazy last year was the poor FT shooting. Those 3-5 points that you give up can make a huge difference in close games. Thankfully, we lose our two biggest culprits from last year in Brown/Wallace (also our top two FTA guys) and replace them with Mullins and Moore. And it even looks like Rooks has improved his FT shooting dramatically, which is big since he should be getting to the line a ton. But the biggest thing here (as others have mentioned) is that we have two ballhandlers now who can close out games from the line (and not turn the ball over). Last year, we had none.

- While our defense was excellent last year, I think we could potentially be elite this year. Cuonzo's defensive strategy (which I love btw) is to run the opposing teams off the 3pt line and funnel them into our interior defenders. The key here, is that they need to be funneled into the right spots. Sometimes, the problem we had last year, is that some of our perimeter defenders just let people get by them, which opened huge seams and got our help defenders out of position. Those main culprits (we know who they are) have moved on. I think it may be too early to say how good Moore is defensively, but I'm pretty confident in saying that Mullins is an extremely fundamentally sound defensive player. He moves his feet extremely well, is rarely out of position and is an excellent help defender. He will probably have trouble with a few elite athletes (like Ball or Dillon), but overall he will be a huge improvement. I also expect to see RMB get a much larger run this year, so the perimeter defense should be improved. So couple that with possibly one of the top 5 interior defenses in the country, and you have the potential to be an elite defense.

- The last thing I will talk about is ball movement. Last year you had two guys who needed to dominate the ball to be effective. I mean, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that your team is going to rely more on one on one type play rather than moving and passing. Thankfully, I think we can move away from that type of offense and into a more ball movement oriented offense that will help create more space. We have already discussed how Moore's ballhandling ability will allow him to penetrate and pass more effectively than our playmakers from last year. But what really stands out to me is Mullins passing ability. He's not flashy like a Jason Kidd. But he's an extremely high IQ passer. He will make the hockey assist (the assist before the assist). Its like chess. You need to see the entire board and anticipate a couple moves ahead. Mullins can do that. Another thing I like is that this team seems to enjoy moving the ball around. Watch that 10 minute stretch when Cal went on a huge run against SDSU. It was like something out of Hoosiers. The ball never touched the ground, it just got passed from one player to another with very little dribbling. It was such a departure from what we saw last year.

In the end, its too hard to tell where the ceiling is for this team. One thing that can be said about last year's team was that, while inconsistent, they had the raw talent to beat the #1 team in the country. I'm not sure you can necessarily say that about this year's team. However, I do think we will be much more consistent this year and, for sure, much more entertaining to watch. That I know for sure. And while I know its early, (but barring injury) I will be very disappointed if this team isn't playing the second week of the tournament.

I have never been as excited as I am now with the long term trajectory of this program.


Re Moore's defense: You don't expect someone who looks like a 12 year old to make fabulous defensive plays in his 2nd college game; but, althought RMB largely got credit for it, it was Moore who made the defensive play of the game - ripping the ball CLEANLY out of the hands of the opposing team's leading scorer who had been close to un-stoppable, with the game utterly on the line. In fairness, I suspect that RMB's running that guy into Moore (who seemed to be just waiting for him) was maybe an equally big part of the play. But the cleanliness of the move was a real shock - probably more so to the offensive player at that point.
south bender
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Great posts on this thread! I have equally high hopes, but I am trying to throttle them a bit. It is awfully early.

However, I must say I love Mullins and have been saying I would rather we have him than Mathews.

And Moore just blew me away last night. Cuonzo nailed it earlier, when he said Charlie would be one of the great Bears before he leaves Cal.

What is really great about Charlie is that clearly he's a team player, at the same time that in his second game--think about that!--broke the record of Shareef, a #3 draft choice after one year and a guy who stands more than a head higher than Charlie!

Let us hope that issues of health do not cloud our season.

Go Bears!
MinotStateBeav
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I'm excited too..I think last night was the most fun I've had watching a Cal game in awhile. I also want to temper my expectation because the more Charlie plays the more the opponents get film and try to stear him into a weakness which tbh last night i'm hard pressed to find lol. But he will run into differing game plans that will try to limit him so how he adjusts over the course of the season will be fun to watch...and try not to be too critical if there's a rough stretch.
KoreAmBear
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It was a fun game. I'm a little worried about Bird's back spasms though. I'd like to see how we are at full strength v. UVa to see whether it looks like we are special. Could be, but the fact that we are Cal usually causes things to come crashing down in dramatic and horrendous fashion. But I'm hopeful.
concernedparent
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Agree that the pieces fit together better. Hugely disagree on the depth thing. We have the same problems because we have the same personnel. Definitely worse actually, we don't have a human microwave in Mathews. Singer is Singer, Okoroh is Okoroh, two solid defense minded guys. 8th spot is either Domingo or RMAB, I think it's going to be Domingo since we've heard all summer about the new Domingo. I'll believe it when I see it. Not sure what you see in RMAB besides being an athletic presence either.

Coleman and Davis are another year away. Chauca probably won't see time again.
NYCGOBEARS
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Irrational exuberance.
R90
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10 Deep (when healthy)

Mullins/Singer 20/20 min.
Moore/Coleman 30/10 min.
Bird/Moute a Bidias 30/10 min.
Rabb/Domingo 30/10 min.
Okoroh/Rooks 20/20 min.

There will be a lot of different lineups in that mix. We saw twin towers last night, but that was a unique situation. We'll also see times when neither of the 7 footers is on the floor.

Davis and Chauca would be rotation players if needed.
SFBearz
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concernedparent;842763076 said:

Agree that the pieces fit together better. Hugely disagree on the depth thing. We have the same problems because we have the same personnel. Definitely worse actually, we don't have a human microwave in Mathews. Singer is Singer, Okoroh is Okoroh, two solid defense minded guys. 8th spot is either Domingo or RMAB, I think it's going to be Domingo since we've heard all summer about the new Domingo. I'll believe it when I see it. Not sure what you see in RMAB besides being an athletic presence either.

Coleman and Davis are another year away. Chauca probably won't see time again.


The fact that Davis is not ready to impact really does hurt the team's depth. The shallow 2016 and 2017 recruiting classes are not going to get Cal out of this yearly problem. In fact, the 2017 class doesn't even address what Cal will need to put together a good starting five next year, so it won't only be a depth problem. That's why I don't yet see a clear upper trajectory for the program. Hopefully Martin can still get a couple good players for next year.
TummyoftheGB
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Moore reminds me of a freshman version of Chris Paul. That will count for alot through the season. It makes for a totally different feel. Last night would have been a certain loss for any of the previous ~20 Cal teams.

I have absolutely no doubt that there will be a few clunker games and a few games where the Refs-U-Suck will ruin the contest (they tried their best last night, with some wretched calls in the first half). But I have the same feeling about this year as when Jason Kidd and Lamond Murray were running amok. It's good to be a Bear.
concordtom
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bearybear;842762983 said:

Love this. I was fired up after last night's game and feel the same across the board. Even though it was UCI, last night's game was the best game I've watched in years


Welcome Bearybear! 8 posts, wow!
So, I don't mean to dampen your mood, but I think that if the last 5 minutes had not been a pheonix, it would have been one of the ugliest games ever.
Well, I recall the Notre Dame game where we scored like 8 points in the first half. That was really ugly. But last night with 3 starters out and just a handful of new/role players? It wasn't looking good. The ugly start and situation made for an awesome finish, however. I'll agree with you there!!
concordtom
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NYCGOBEARS;842763078 said:

Irrational exuberance.


Perhaps Ducky is mixing vodka with his lemonade.
concordtom
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MinotStateBeav;842763062 said:

I'm excited too..I think last night was the most fun I've had watching a Cal game in awhile. I also want to temper my expectation because the more Charlie plays the more the opponents get film and try to stear him into a weakness which tbh last night i'm hard pressed to find lol. But he will run into differing game plans that will try to limit him so how he adjusts over the course of the season will be fun to watch...and try not to be too critical if there's a rough stretch.


Right.
That's what I've been thinking today.
Teams will try and work him over, one way or another. And he's a freshman, so you can be sure of that period of difficulty.
HoopDreams
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I share much of your thoughts, but let's not get ahead of ourselves comparing moore to wallace and jaylen. very different players.

Like everyone else, I was thrilled by what I saw with moore. one of the cal all time best performances. but remember when we get into conference, teams will have a lot of tape on moore and will know his tendencies, and game plan against him. i do think moore will have far fewer turnovers, and I love that he is such a good free throw shooter.


ducky23;842762975 said:

Last year, I believe the biggest problem was the lack of a playmaker. And by playmaker, I mean someone who can break down a defense and either pass or shoot once the opposing defense is in a leveraged position. Sure, Wallace/Brown could get to the paint, but they were often wild forays into the paint that would either result in a forced shot or a TO. Also, they were never in enough control where they could either pass or shoot once they penetrated the defense. This kind of playmaking really doesn't help, because you need to be able to pass once the defense converges around you. Moore, on the other hand, provides that threat. Albeit against UCI, he seemed to be able to get into the lane at will, and with enough control that he should be able to learn to either dish to an interior player or pass out to an open shooter. And my favorite stat from yesterday was 1 TO from Moore. ONE! How many times would you watch Wallace/Brown put their head down and drive into the lane only to turn the ball over. Someone who can actually break down a defense will create so much more room for players like Rabb, Bird and Mullins
ducky23
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HoopDreams;842763136 said:

I share much of your thoughts, but let's not get ahead of ourselves comparing moore to wallace and jaylen. very different players.

Like everyone else, I was thrilled by what I saw with moore. one of the cal all time best performances. but remember when we get into conference, teams will have a lot of tape on moore and will know his tendencies, and game plan against him. i do think moore will have far fewer turnovers, and I love that he is such a good free throw shooter.


Yeah. I mean I get that. But people also forget that we have an all-American sitting on the bench right now.

Moore is probably the 3rd or 4th best player on the team. Sure, if he were the focal point, opposing teams could probably scheme to shut him down.

But that's not his role. He doesn't need to score 38 points a night. He doesn't even need to score 10 a night to be effective.

It's going to be very tough to guard rabb, bird, Moore and Mullins at the same time.
roqmoq
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NYCGOBEARS;842763078 said:

Irrational exuberance.


Could be? But as an ancient Bear who was here in 1958-59 when we won it all, Moore's performance was outstanding for a freshman this early in the season. I remember Jason and Shareef and Charlie's game last night was up there with those two all-time Bears.
graguna
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KoreAmBear;842763069 said:

but the fact that we are Cal usually causes things to come crashing down in dramatic and horrendous fashion. But I'm hopeful.


Hilariously spot on. painful too
bluesaxe
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I guess the thing I'll look for the most is how Moore plays with Rabb, Mullins and Bird back. A game like that can convince a guy he should play like that all the time. That would be bad. But if he's the kind of player who sees what the team needs and does it, having a playmaker who is a scoring threat like that feeding Rabb and Bird could make this offense very efficient. Moore is going to have his struggles. He'll be going up against better athletes and tougher teams. But if he plays under control and picks his spots we're golden.

ducky23;842763147 said:

Yeah. I mean I get that. But people also forget that we have an all-American sitting on the bench right now.

Moore is probably the 3rd or 4th best player on the team. Sure, if he were the focal point, opposing teams could probably scheme to shut him down.

But that's not his role. He doesn't need to score 38 points a night. He doesn't even need to score 10 a night to be effective.

It's going to be very tough to guard rabb, bird, Moore and Mullins at the same time.
BC Calfan
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If there's one thing you can count on on this board its post game overreaction. We win and people talk about banners, we lose and people talk about our next coach.
UrsaMajor
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Agree 100%. I'd only add that the other issue is how he does against taller point guards. Charlie has a quick release, but he gets his shot off somewhat low. Will that become an issue?
BeachedBear
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Ducky strikes again! Nice perspective - I'd like to come right out and try to identify ONE issue that seems to nagging at me for 3+ seasons. I'm talking about the class of Matthews, Singer, Rooks, Bird and RMB (which I'll refer to as the senior class).

That issue is Confidence! Overall it just seems to be lacking in this group. Despite flashes of brilliance from each player and as a group, they really haven't developed as much as I expected. However the difference between Meh and Wow for each of them seems to be confidence (you can see it in their eyes - if you want an objective and technical metric).
mikecohen
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bluesaxe;842763244 said:

I guess the thing I'll look for the most is how Moore plays with Rabb, Mullins and Bird back. A game like that can convince a guy he should play like that all the time. That would be bad. But if he's the kind of player who sees what the team needs and does it, having a playmaker who is a scoring threat like that feeding Rabb and Bird could make this offense very efficient. Moore is going to have his struggles. He'll be going up against better athletes and tougher teams. But if he plays under control and picks his spots we're golden.


One has the feeling, about Moore, that, growing up on the streets of Chicago, playing at a substantially shorter height than he has now, to the point where I guess enough knowledgeable people thought he was the best high school basketball player in the State of Illinois, he's undoubtedly both "had his struggles", and "gone up against better athletes", in progressively tougher and more high pressured situations. Nobody's perfect; but it does seem like he's pretty advanced, substantially beyond his years.
mikecohen
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BeachedBear;842763336 said:

Ducky strikes again! Nice perspective - I'd like to come right out and try to identify ONE issue that seems to nagging at me for 3+ seasons. I'm talking about the class of Matthews, Singer, Rooks, Bird and RMB (which I'll refer to as the senior class).

That issue is Confidence! Overall it just seems to be lacking in this group. Despite flashes of brilliance from each player and as a group, they really haven't developed as much as I expected. However the difference between Meh and Wow for each of them seems to be confidence (you can see it in their eyes - if you want an objective and technical metric).


+1 on what looks to me like a profound observation, about which one can only wonder about the cause. One does see SOME growth in this area though, i.e., RMB continually, SS (with indications that there should be and should have been more), SD in flashes enough to make one wonder why not more; and JB (just a major question mark given all that talent and athleticism, which has in fact manifested itself in a substantial number of games to make one wonder whether the back is, to some extent, a physical manifestation of the pattern.
OzoneTheCat
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ducky23;842762975 said:



This season, in the words of one of Cal basketball's greatest thinkers, is 360 degrees different.




....and our most recent generous financial donor.
Wookids
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OzoneTheCat;842763364 said:

....and our most recent generous financial donor.


So, have our chances for new Practice facility recently improved?
Wookids
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Great post ducky23, and your answer to HoopDreams regarding teams zeroing in on defending Moore {PART OF YOUR QUOTE: "It's going to be very tough to guard rabb, bird, Moore and Mullins at the same time."} was my first thought. Bird's health is a big concern, as we don't have comparable talent to fall back onto on our bench. Also, with Rabb on the floor with Rooks or Okoroh, our floor balance will be different, and something I want to actually see with regards to ball movement & spacing. And what will be a typical Moore game, as games 1 & 2 were not similar, and thus far we haven't seen much of his passing abilities (last game he was right to take over as with 3 starters out, we needed all of the offense he was able to provide).
Yogi1
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ducky23;842763147 said:

Moore is probably the 3rd or 4th best player on the team.


I'd say he's second best. Bird's been too inconsistent over his career. And I'm not expecting Moore to get 20 plus every game.
Cal8285
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My excitement about this year is mostly tempered by concerns about health. If we stay healthy, then I agree completely.

If we're down to the six man rotation we had on Wednesday (7 if you want to include Coleman, I'm not willing to include Davis with his one minute of play), well, we showed a lot of heart in the comeback, but that won't be enough to get us all that far in the conference season.

I would have been very happy with a sweet 16 last year, but it did come crashing down with key injuries before the tourney. I hope we have everyone on Monday, and I hope we can stay mostly healthy through the year, and be healthy at tourney time. We have a reasonably high ceiling. With the right (or, rather wrong) injuries, we could have a pretty low floor, and the game Wednesday didn't give me a good feeling about staying healthy. I hope I feel better by the end of Monday night.

Long term, we do have a lot of holes to fill next year, I'll wait until next year to start getting too excited. It is nice, however, to have a point guard who ought to give us a good four years, and I am hopeful, if not excited, about the long term trajectory.
south bender
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mikecohen;842763347 said:

One has the feeling, about Moore, that, growing up on the streets of Chicago, playing at a substantially shorter height than he has now, to the point where I guess enough knowledgeable people thought he was the best high school basketball player in the State of Illinois, he's undoubtedly both "had his struggles", and "gone up against better athletes", in progressively tougher and more high pressured situations. Nobody's perfect; but it does seem like he's pretty advanced, substantially beyond his years.


Good post, Mike!
cubzwin
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No way is Moore the "3rd or 4th best player on the team". Rabb and Moore are 1 and 1a.
NewYorkCityBear
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R90;842763084 said:

10 Deep (when healthy)

Mullins/Singer 20/20 min.
Moore/Coleman 30/10 min.
Bird/Moute a Bidias 30/10 min.
Rabb/Domingo 30/10 min.
Okoroh/Rooks 20/20 min.

There will be a lot of different lineups in that mix. We saw twin towers last night, but that was a unique situation. We'll also see times when neither of the 7 footers is on the floor.

Davis and Chauca would be rotation players if needed.


Pretty much agree with that assessment save for Coleman getting 10. I think a 9 man rotation will emerge with Don the odd man out. RMB and SD can both gas Raab or Bird and that's a huge plus for their PT, and they can both play serviceably at the 2 in big lineups . If Davis or Chauca are playing in anything but blowouts, we're probably in trouble.
MoragaBear
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mikecohen;842763347 said:

One has the feeling, about Moore, that, growing up on the streets of Chicago, playing at a substantially shorter height than he has now, to the point where I guess enough knowledgeable people thought he was the best high school basketball player in the State of Illinois, he's undoubtedly both "had his struggles", and "gone up against better athletes", in progressively tougher and more high pressured situations. Nobody's perfect; but it does seem like he's pretty advanced, substantially beyond his years.


Exactly. And he's a very smart player that knows his and his teammates' capabilities well.

He's a winner.
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