Impressions from SDSU game

3,460 Views | 15 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by south bender
SFCityBear
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It looks like the “Getting Dykesed” thread has been shut down, and good riddance. While there are a few good points in that thread, we are, as usual, too predictable, as we heap blame and bash a coach or a player or two after a bad loss.

The team did improve some over the course of the last season, and some players have clearly improved individually, so there is some coaching going on. Look at RMB shoot a free throw now. Watch his eyes, and how he focuses and imagines the shot before he shoots it. He is starting to grasp the mental side of shooting a free throw. He was 4-4 in last night’s game. Kinglsey Okoroh shoots bricks most of the time. Last night he was 4-4 on free throws. One poster in the aforementioned thread says our free throw shooting last night was “abysmal”. 72% is abysmal? No, last season, at 65%, was poor. 55% is abysmal. Someone else said Singer had an awful game. With the promotion of Moore to PG, and Bird out, Singer is relegated to playing the 2 guard some of the time (Shooting guard). Singer is not a shooting guard and does not belong there. It is not easy to bounce back and forth between two positions during a game.

My impression of the game is that I can’t remember a Cal team that had such a huge shooting percentage differential, 72% on free throws, and 32% on field goals. Cal’s defense was poor. Both teams shot poorly, but San Diego State was missing mostly open shots, while most the Cal shots were tightly contested and defended. Cal shared the ball a lot, but after a few passes, it was one player taking it on himself to create his own shot, and the SDSU defense was waiting for him. People have decried my use of assists as a measure of team play. Well, we had even fewer assists in this game, 7 in total. 16 turnovers is awful. You won’t win many, or maybe any games with that assist/turnover ratio. The Bears played totally out of control. Instead of “taking it to the rim”, they seemed to want to drive and take to a defender, and settle for the free throws, and never mind about making a shot, which has almost no chance of going in the basket. I’ve never seen that many wild shots in a game. Do they practice those wild shots? And Moore is not exempt from this, believe me. On the other side of the coin, we outrebounded a very athletic team by 13 rebounds, and shot a good 72% on free throws. Last season, SDSU outrebounded us 44-36, and we shot FTs at an awful 58%. Last year, we made only 5 assists, and we made 15 turnovers. Look familiar? It was another early game against a well coached team.

I have my own reservations about Cuonzo. There are many things I need to see first before I pronounce him “Dykesian”, with systemic problems that have not been addressed. But before we write off Cuonzo as a coach, we need to remind ourselves that one key player was out, and two other key players were playing their first game back from injury and had little or no practice reps. Cuonzo decided on who his point guard was to be only a couple of days before the game. You all want us to whip a team which killed us last season with this little practice or preparation?

This is a team that beat us easily last season, also in an early season game, and when we supposedly had better talent than we do this season. This is game #3, for goodness sake! Can we get a grip?
SFCityBear
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The best description I read of the SDSU game was from Shocky1. Measured and reasoned. Read his post from his Monster Class Deux Thread, before you bash Martin or any of our players and other fans:

"the bears did not bring in the 1st half the necessary defensive energy/intensity (slow in reacting/closing out on 3 point shooters), offensive indecisiveness (which resulted in travels, errant passes & aimless passing of the ball around the perimeter) or physical aggression (not finishing on attacking the basket) to compete with a healthy san diego aztecs tonite at the sparkling new (but in a kinda sterile way) golden1 center

despite out rebounding the aztecs +13 the bears turned the ball over a sloppy 16 times while the aztecs turned it over only a remarkable 5 times which resulted in a 17 point halftime hole that we couldn't dig out of despite young ivee (19 points, 11 boards & 2 blocks) & charlie moore (17 points but 4 turnovers) building some rhythm/chemistry in the 2nd half

a few of the pluses were ivan getting his game legs & timing back in the 2nd half, roger knocking down all 6 free throws & the twin towers kam & king combining for 18 boards & 7 blocks (but they gotta finish better around the rim)...a strength & branding identity of this team is gonna be monster rebounding/blocking shots

reality is that this team is limited without jabari bird in the lineup, the bird man (along with marcus lee) did not make the trip to sacramento

sat court side next to mayor kevin johnson & his family (his mom georgia is a lotta fun), asked him when he's gonna move to washington & he smiled & told me "not sure about that yet"

yeah if you ask me when is this team gonna reach it's full potential i would answer the question in the same way, this is a work in process

the sun will rise tomorrow morning, guys will still be attending classes & furthering their studies at the #1 ranked public (#3 overall) university in the world & everybody in the basketball program needs to work a little bit harder

let's do this"

Thankyou Shocky1 for bringing me, at least, back to earth.
UrsaMajor
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Overall, a reasoned analysis, SFCity. The turnovers were truly abysmal; while there weren't enough assists, part of the problem was the number of bricks thrown up after a decent pass (Mullins, for instance, was 1-10 shooting). As for Singer, in a motion offense, the difference between point and shooting guard is less, although at times we did go 1-4 and then Sam was out on the wing. Two things that will change over time: Ivan was obviously rusty and wasn't handling the 2x team well until late in the game when he seemed to get into rhythm. Secondly, Jabari being out meant that Mullins (who had a bad game offensively) and Moore were the only outside threats. With a healthy Bird, hopefully that changes because he is a legitimate scorer. Plus with Jabari in the rotation, Domingo's and Coleman's minutes will diminish. Stephen can be a contributor when not asked to score much, and Coleman shouldn't be playing except in garbage time.

I was more troubled by the defense which seemed slow--especially Singer, who is supposed to be one of our better on-ball defenders. Given the fact that Cal led the P-12 in most defensive categories last year, it is ludicrous to say that the defensive weaknesses last night were because Cuonzo can't coach defense. I think rather that the offensive woes led to panic and ill-advised attempts at steals or overplays.
KoreAmBear
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Moraga,

I am sure you have asked Cuonzo in the past why he doesn't generally zone up too much. Last night seemed like a great time to be zoning as their athletes all could take most of our bigs off the dribble and finish. They couldn't shoot outside, but we let them finish around the rim. Did anyone ask him?

Is he not comfortable zoning unless they have perfected it in practice? I'm wondering what it is because going man to man with them was not a great matchup.
MoragaBear
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They tried zone last night and got killed with it when they used it.

It's not their strength, nor did it match up well with what SDSU was doing last night.
bearmanpg
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San Diego St. plays very good defense as we all witnessed last night...we had 7 assists while we shot 32%...they had 8 assist while shooting 37%...proves what we have beaten to death here...YOU HAVE TO SHOOT A GOOD PERCENTAGE TO HAVE A HIGH NUMBER OF ASSISTS...Bird missing affects the offense by not having another (or at times ANY) outside threat...Mullins needs to have Bird in the line-up also so the opponent can't put their best outside defender on him...this team can be very good with all the parts available and playing up to their abilities but any missing pieces are going to affect this team greatly because there are no bench players to fill the shoes of the starters, only players to hold down the damage until the starters can get back in the game...last night's officiating was way too touchy...forced Moore to the bench for most of the 1st half and even got Rabb benched erroneously in the 1st also...the actual time during the 1st half when Moore and Rabb were on the floor together was minimal which pretty much spelled out the 1st half outcome...I still have a good feeling about this team but I think Cuonzo is going to have to allow players to play a bit with 2 fouls in the 1st half, if not we could have a lot of problems staying in touch until we can play at full strength...
BGGB2
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bearmanpg;842766401 said:

...this team can be very good with all the parts available and playing up to their abilities but any missing pieces are going to affect this team greatly because there are no bench players to fill the shoes of the starters, only players to hold down the damage until the starters can get back in the game...last night's officiating was way too touchy...forced Moore to the bench for most of the 1st half and even got Rabb benched erroneously in the 1st also...the actual time during the 1st half when Moore and Rabb were on the floor together was minimal which pretty much spelled out the 1st half outcome...I still have a good feeling about this team but I think Cuonzo is going to have to allow players to play a bit with 2 fouls in the 1st half, if not we could have a lot of problems staying in touch until we can play at full strength...


How about the following system: if Rabb, Moore, or Bird picks up two fouls in the first half, they sit. But if Cal falls behind by, say, 8+ points, they come back in, and the Bears play zone D. Also, the guy(s) with 2 fouls are ordered to lay off on the offensive boards. (The stupid over-the-back fouls when a guy is already in foul trouble drive me nuts.)

If we really are poor at zone D, then perhaps this strategy wouldn't be worth the risk.
calgo430
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just my opinion without bird we are so so. he is the only one who can create and make shots on a consistent basis.
NVBear78
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calgo430;842766423 said:

just my opinion without bird we are so so. he is the only one who can create and make shots on a consistent basis.



Agree we need Bird but Moore is the one best at creating his shots. Was amazing to see him able to get to the basket even against an athletic SDSU team in just his third game ever!!!

I believe he will go down as our best PG since Kidd
south bender
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NVBear78;842766431 said:

Agree we need Bird but Moore is the one best at creating his shots. Was amazing to see him able to get to the basket even against an athletic SDSU team in just his third game ever!!!

I believe he will go down as our best PG since Kidd


Indeed. Bird actually struggles to create.
bearmanpg
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BGGB2;842766419 said:

How about the following system: if Rabb, Moore, or Bird picks up two fouls in the first half, they sit. But if Cal falls behind by, say, 8+ points, they come back in, and the Bears play zone D. Also, the guy(s) with 2 fouls are ordered to lay off on the offensive boards. (The stupid over-the-back fouls when a guy is already in foul trouble drive me nuts.)

If we really are poor at zone D, then perhaps this strategy wouldn't be worth the risk.



This would be worth a try in my opinion....there has to be a way to stay in touch when you have some minor foul trouble and I feel 2 first half fouls is minor foul trouble....3 fouls and your down for the duration of the half....it just drives me bananas when a guy picks up 2 cheapies in the first 5-7 mins and sits the rest of the first half, then he plays the entire 2nd half and finishes with 3 fouls...seems to me you have wasted a player unnecessarily.
KoreAmBear
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MoragaBear;842766380 said:

They tried zone last night and got killed with it when they used it.

It's not their strength, nor did it match up well with what SDSU was doing last night.


Thanks Moraga.
concordtom
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I wasn't terribly surprised by anything I saw last night.

Moore looked like a freshman at times, but also looked like a stud again - which I take as really good news. He's gonna be a good one, indeed. I'm all aboard the bandwagon for his career at this point.

Hard for Ivan to get going when the other team is double teaming him continually. Well coached job by Fisher and well played by his charges. Ivan's mates in the post don't offer enough of a threat to make getting out the double easy on him. Further, we have developed our guards counter to the double-team. That will come, but I fear it will be a long year of games like that for Ivan. Stats wise, it worked, right? But he never got loose to show what he can truly do. The expectations are so great with the pre-season nods and the "top 10 draft" status foregone from last year. Those things are almost a curse to deal with, live up to.

Without Bird, it was tough - because Moute nor Domingo filled that void in the scoring column!

The most interesting thing was for most of the game down the stretch it was Coleman, not Singer, logging minutes. The kid has a lot to learn, but he offers a quickness and aggressiveness advantage. Many wild drives/shots pushing ill-advised, but with time, maybe... Will be interesting if that rotational choice firms up in future games.
UrsaMajor
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Interesting take about Coleman. I was puzzled by Sam. I haven't seen him have this bad a game since maybe his soph year. He seemed slow, out of position, and back to being tentative. Don't know if it was SDSU's aggressiveness on D or his having to play the 2 for significant minutes, but even his defense was off.
HoopDreams
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He also had two lazy passes
His first lazy pass was one of the worst I've seen by a D1 PG, but the defense was a sleep so it wasn't stolen

Sam did have a very nice 3
ducky23
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concordtom;842766468 said:

I wasn't terribly surprised by anything I saw last night.

Moore looked like a freshman at times, but also looked like a stud again - which I take as really good news. He's gonna be a good one, indeed. I'm all aboard the bandwagon for his career at this point.

Hard for Ivan to get going when the other team is double teaming him continually. Well coached job by Fisher and well played by his charges. Ivan's mates in the post don't offer enough of a threat to make getting out the double easy on him. Further, we have developed our guards counter to the double-team. That will come, but I fear it will be a long year of games like that for Ivan. Stats wise, it worked, right? But he never got loose to show what he can truly do. The expectations are so great with the pre-season nods and the "top 10 draft" status foregone from last year. Those things are almost a curse to deal with, live up to.

Without Bird, it was tough - because Moute nor Domingo filled that void in the scoring column!

The most interesting thing was for most of the game down the stretch it was Coleman, not Singer, logging minutes. The kid has a lot to learn, but he offers a quickness and aggressiveness advantage. Many wild drives/shots pushing ill-advised, but with time, maybe... Will be interesting if that rotational choice firms up in future games.


I agree, I was not surprised by the outcome at all.

For some reason, Fisher just has cuonzo's number. We go through this every year. we play our worst game of the season against sdsu and then we more or less improve as the season wears on. (and I don't think it has anything to do with us just simply struggling against better competition - last year we stunk against sdsu and then should have beaten virginia)

So there's no reason to panic. We are going to be fine. Rabb will play better. We hopefully figure out those double teams. Bird will hopefully get healthy. Moore will only improve. And remember, this team is still learning how to play together.

The one concerning thing I saw was the complete disappearance of Domingo and RMB. If they can only play against inferior competition, then that's a problem.

I also agree that Coleman has promise. He has the ability to create his own shot and also get into the lane. Attributes that players like Domingo and RMB has never had. He's raw right now and I don't think we should expect much out of him this year. But in 1-2 years, I think he will be a steady contributor.
south bender
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ducky23;842766640 said:

I agree, I was not surprised by the outcome at all.

For some reason, Fisher just has cuonzo's number. We go through this every year. we play our worst game of the season against sdsu and then we more or less improve as the season wears on. (and I don't think it has anything to do with us just simply struggling against better competition - last year we stunk against sdsu and then should have beaten virginia)

So there's no reason to panic. We are going to be fine. Rabb will play better. We hopefully figure out those double teams. Bird will hopefully get healthy. Moore will only improve. And remember, this team is still learning how to play together.

The one concerning thing I saw was the complete disappearance of Domingo and RMB. If they can only play against inferior competition, then that's a problem.

I also agree that Coleman has promise. He has the ability to create his own shot and also get into the lane. Attributes that players like Domingo and RMB has never had. He's raw right now and I don't think we should expect much out of him this year. But in 1-2 years, I think he will be a steady contributor.


What about Singer? I really have had hopes for Sam, but his performance in this game was beyond bad. I cannot recall his playing this badly, even in his first year. My take is that it is in his head that his struggles remain. I really hope he is not even more tied up there. We need him to be a positive contributor.
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